NTSB to probe Fedex/Southwest close encounter at Austin
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FAA - Nomination for Administrator Faces Heavy Opposition
After a somewhat contentious confirmation hearing on March 1 before the Senate Commerce Committee, the nomination of Phil Washington to the office of FAA Administrator now appears in deeper trouble. The Chair of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, Rep. Sam Graves, and the Senate Commerce Committee ranking Member, Sen. Ted Cruz, have today issued a joint letter stating that the Congress will not pass a legislative waiver to allow Mr. Washington, who served in the U.S. Army, to become Administrator - an office which by statute must be limited to a "civilian." It's hardball time in D.C., though Opening Day is still about a month away.
(I'm posting this item on this thread for the self-evident reason that the incident in Austin TX certainly has serious elements pertaining to much of the processes and structures, organizationally speaking, of the Federal Aviation Administration and the NAS, and quite obviously, with Austin situated in the State of Texas, well, you know the rest.)
Here is a link to the House T&I Committee webpage, which features a press release on this development. At the end of the press release, a link is included which leads to a pdf of the correspondence to President Biden.
https://transportation.house.gov/new...umentID=406178
Having written a decent number, at least, of power-play letters in my legal career - but none addressing legislative matters or presidential appointments (. . . . so far), I'll just say one or more legal eagles who know their way around the triple-action world of policy, politics and law really went all out in putting their keyboards-to-screen, or whatever is the digital age equivalency of pen-to-paper.
(For the purists out there, yes, the correct name of the relevant Committee in the United States Senate is the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.)
(I'm posting this item on this thread for the self-evident reason that the incident in Austin TX certainly has serious elements pertaining to much of the processes and structures, organizationally speaking, of the Federal Aviation Administration and the NAS, and quite obviously, with Austin situated in the State of Texas, well, you know the rest.)
Here is a link to the House T&I Committee webpage, which features a press release on this development. At the end of the press release, a link is included which leads to a pdf of the correspondence to President Biden.
https://transportation.house.gov/new...umentID=406178
Having written a decent number, at least, of power-play letters in my legal career - but none addressing legislative matters or presidential appointments (. . . . so far), I'll just say one or more legal eagles who know their way around the triple-action world of policy, politics and law really went all out in putting their keyboards-to-screen, or whatever is the digital age equivalency of pen-to-paper.
(For the purists out there, yes, the correct name of the relevant Committee in the United States Senate is the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.)
WillowRun 6-3,
Thanks for the insight and link. Herein lies the problem with our current “Woke culture”. Lately it’s less important what qualifications a person has for a position, than it is on their gender and race. Transportation Secratary Pete Buttigieg comes to mind. This gentleman, Mr Washington was nominated for the position of FAA administrator, and has zero aviation credentials, except for a position in the Denver Airport. In New York City, the “Woke” Mayor hired a 39 year old woman to be the Commisioner of the NYC Fire department, She was never a Fireman, ever…but her resume brags about her opening up the diversity pool to women and minorities..I hope if She ever needs someone to carry her down a 8 story ladder from a burning building, it’s not a 110lb young woman. Mr Washington, who seems to be an impressive person, in his own right, may not be the best choice for this job, but that doesn’t matter anymore, it’s all about feelings. One of his selling points was his work addressing “Equity” and Social Justice” in his prior position in a City Transit System (buses, trains, etc Not Aircraft) I said it before, Aviation is not a suitable arena for political and social experimentation. The current “acting FAA Administrator” Billy Nolen fills the “woke” square, and He is very qualified. I hope he becomes the choice.
Ohio Republican Sen. J.D. Vance asked about Washington’s work to advance equity in his work, arguing, “The aviation industry is maybe the single industry where aptitude and where safety matter more than almost anything else.”
Thanks for the insight and link. Herein lies the problem with our current “Woke culture”. Lately it’s less important what qualifications a person has for a position, than it is on their gender and race. Transportation Secratary Pete Buttigieg comes to mind. This gentleman, Mr Washington was nominated for the position of FAA administrator, and has zero aviation credentials, except for a position in the Denver Airport. In New York City, the “Woke” Mayor hired a 39 year old woman to be the Commisioner of the NYC Fire department, She was never a Fireman, ever…but her resume brags about her opening up the diversity pool to women and minorities..I hope if She ever needs someone to carry her down a 8 story ladder from a burning building, it’s not a 110lb young woman. Mr Washington, who seems to be an impressive person, in his own right, may not be the best choice for this job, but that doesn’t matter anymore, it’s all about feelings. One of his selling points was his work addressing “Equity” and Social Justice” in his prior position in a City Transit System (buses, trains, etc Not Aircraft) I said it before, Aviation is not a suitable arena for political and social experimentation. The current “acting FAA Administrator” Billy Nolen fills the “woke” square, and He is very qualified. I hope he becomes the choice.
Ohio Republican Sen. J.D. Vance asked about Washington’s work to advance equity in his work, arguing, “The aviation industry is maybe the single industry where aptitude and where safety matter more than almost anything else.”
As a lowly pax Iwas aghast at the nfo about NY tracon. That must be one of the most demanding ATC jobs anywhere in the world given the volume of traffic and 3 major airports plus Teterboro and no doubt a few other lesser fields
If it only has 50% of the staff it is supposed to have how can that not be a seriously unsafe situation both in terms of fatigue /inadequate rest or just plain workload overload
If it only has 50% of the staff it is supposed to have how can that not be a seriously unsafe situation both in terms of fatigue /inadequate rest or just plain workload overload
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Chiefttp
There is much that could be said about "woke" orthodoxies - almost none of it favorable, in my view.
But rather than delve into those issues, since you've mentioned Administrator (Acting) Billy Nolen, I watched most of his recent testimony before the Senate Commerce Committee, in the hearing ostensibly devoted to the NOTAMs system outage. If I recall accurately, it was Ohio Senator Vance who asked Mr. Nolen to comment on various woke-inspired phraseological preferences (or mandates) and training program content used by FAA. It was clever, because as Acting Administrator, Mr. Nolen couldn't very well diverge from his agency's official pronouncement or publications. And he also made one valid (imo) point about the future - if FAA wants to continue to attract and retain highly talented people, it needs to set aside biases that have nothing to do with actual qualifications and capabilities to perform consistently at high levels. That of course is not what woke orthodoxies want - instead they're so reminiscient of "quotas" when "affirmative action" first came upon the employment law and policy scene decades ago.
But a sense of humor gets people, and maybe countries, through a lot of situations better than constant arguments. Senator Vance asked whether Mr. Nolen agreed with what the Senator claimed was an FAA publication discouraging the use of the term. . . . "wife". His wedding band quite visible as he allowed a discrete, slight smile to cross his face, Mr. Nolen stated that he would have to think about that one. And I think the deftness shown in his response almost by itself earns him the promotion to full-authority Administrator!
There is much that could be said about "woke" orthodoxies - almost none of it favorable, in my view.
But rather than delve into those issues, since you've mentioned Administrator (Acting) Billy Nolen, I watched most of his recent testimony before the Senate Commerce Committee, in the hearing ostensibly devoted to the NOTAMs system outage. If I recall accurately, it was Ohio Senator Vance who asked Mr. Nolen to comment on various woke-inspired phraseological preferences (or mandates) and training program content used by FAA. It was clever, because as Acting Administrator, Mr. Nolen couldn't very well diverge from his agency's official pronouncement or publications. And he also made one valid (imo) point about the future - if FAA wants to continue to attract and retain highly talented people, it needs to set aside biases that have nothing to do with actual qualifications and capabilities to perform consistently at high levels. That of course is not what woke orthodoxies want - instead they're so reminiscient of "quotas" when "affirmative action" first came upon the employment law and policy scene decades ago.
But a sense of humor gets people, and maybe countries, through a lot of situations better than constant arguments. Senator Vance asked whether Mr. Nolen agreed with what the Senator claimed was an FAA publication discouraging the use of the term. . . . "wife". His wedding band quite visible as he allowed a discrete, slight smile to cross his face, Mr. Nolen stated that he would have to think about that one. And I think the deftness shown in his response almost by itself earns him the promotion to full-authority Administrator!
Possibly, but no word about the HUD/EFVS in the report.
And given the reported position of the SWA ("after visually seeing SWA708 at approximately 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet from the approach end"), the FDX was within the 1/4mile RVR from SWA.
And given the reported position of the SWA ("after visually seeing SWA708 at approximately 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet from the approach end"), the FDX was within the 1/4mile RVR from SWA.
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Dear Punkalouver
1) There is no need to go after individuals here who have a diverging view from your own .
2) if you want to put words in my mouth at least do it correctly , What you insinuate is not only incorrect but somewhat insulting . I do promote equity in recruitment , not quotas or measures that would decrease safety ! . An diversity is not a dirty word.
Now if you do not like to read my posts, there is a small tab called " ignore" on the user panel .
Whish you all the best
ATCW
1) There is no need to go after individuals here who have a diverging view from your own .
2) if you want to put words in my mouth at least do it correctly , What you insinuate is not only incorrect but somewhat insulting . I do promote equity in recruitment , not quotas or measures that would decrease safety ! . An diversity is not a dirty word.
Now if you do not like to read my posts, there is a small tab called " ignore" on the user panel .
Whish you all the best
ATCW
How does FO view EFVS/FLIR on a FedEx 767? Genuine question as I remember FedEx was interested in having a head down EFVS image on the MD-10 and MD-11 but I never heard that it had been implemented for revenue service. In flight test we had HUD/EFVS repeaters on the flight deck and in the back.
Last edited by EXDAC; 3rd Mar 2023 at 14:14.
I doubt it is from hiring policy changes and more to do with difficulty placing qualified people in a state like Texas. Who knows when one might freeze to death in sight of a disabled natural gas well field because the state government makes the industry an unregulated free-for-all? As far as "wokeness," Texas is certainly an outstanding example in that regard - the main reason for seceding from Mexico was that Mexico didn't tolerate slavery and the main reason for the attempt to secede from the US was the majority of the US was intolerant of slavery. After losing, Texans immediately passed laws supporting racial discrimination.
Maybe not so dark. The incident occurred about 30 minutes before sunrise as a near-full-moon was setting. If this was low ground fog as is frequently the case at Austin, FDX would likely have seen SWA rising out of the soup before FDX descended into the soup if SWA had executed a timely departure.
Pegase Driver
Now here we get the official picture:
That graph would be very much improved if the vertical lines were removed and instead replaced with lines joining identical points in time. Then one could determine at a glance the relative positions during the event. The verticals are useful for a single plane event where the planet remains in the same place the entire time.
I extracted the core of the prelim report:
Note they mention to have used "preliminary Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) data" so far.
(...)
The Austin Airport Air Traffic Control Tower (AUS ATCT) Air Traffic Manager (ATM) stated at the
time of the incident, there was an extremely low traffic volume and complexity at AUS. The
weather at the time of the incident was low instrument flight rules with the following conditions
being reported: wind calm, visibility 1/4 mile in freezing fog, vertical visibility 200 ft above ground
level, and a temperature minus 1 degree Celsius.
A review of Federal Aviation Administration air traffic control (ATC) audio recordings indicated
that at about 0634, the pilots of FDX1432 established communication with the local controller
and reported their flight was inbound and established on a CAT III instrument landing system
(ILS) approach to runway 18L. The controller provided the pilots with the runway visual range
(RVR) values and cleared them to land. The pilots acknowledged this information.
At 0638:49, the first officer (FO) of SWA708 checked in with the local controller and indicated
they were holding short of runway 18L and were ready for takeoff. The controller provided them
with RVR values, advised them that a FedEx 767 was on a three-mile final (FDX1432), and issued
them a standard takeoff clearance from runway 18L. The FO of SWA708 acknowledged the
clearance with a correct readback. SWA708 proceeded to taxi onto runway 18L and lined up with
the runway centerline and came to a complete stop at which point, control of the aircraft was
transferred from the captain to the FO. The FO indicated that he advanced the power, checked
the engines, and then released the brakes to begin their takeoff roll.
At 0639:32, the pilots of FDX1432 queried the local controller to confirm that they were cleared
to land on runway 18L. According to the captain of FDX1432, he asked for confirmation because
he was concerned about the Southwest traffic. The controller confirmed FDX1432 was cleared
to land and advised them of traffic (SWA708) departing runway 18L ahead of him.
At 0640:12, with FDX1432 on an approximate 0.7-mile final, the local controller queried SWA708
to confirm they were on the roll, to which the captain of SWA708 replied “rolling now.” According
to the captain of FDX1432, he noted that at an altitude of about 150 feet, the FO called go-around
after visually seeing SWA708 at approximately 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet from the approach end
of the runway. At 0640:34 one of the FDX1432 crew broadcasted “Southwest abort” and then at
0640:37 broadcasted that “FedEx is on the go.” According to the SWA708 pilot narratives, the
captain noted that somewhere between the speeds of 80 KIAS and V1, he and the first officer
heard FedEx call for a go-around.
A review of preliminary Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) data revealed that
when FDX1432 was at the departure end of the runway climbing out of 1,900 feet, the controller
instructed FDX1432 to turn left heading 080 and maintain 3,000 feet. At the same time, SWA708
was about 1,000 ft lower than FDX1432 and began a right turn away from the runway heading.
The AUS ATCT ATM reported an overflight appeared to have occurred; however, the closest
proximity has not yet been determined. SWA708 continued their flight plan route to Cancún, and
FDX1432 executed a go-around and returned for landing without incident on runway 18L.
(...)
Certified ADS-B data and audio recordings were provided to the NTSB by the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA). The NTSB is currently analyzing this data.
The digital flight data recorders (DFDRs) were removed from both airplanes and shipped to the
NTSB’s Vehicle Recorder Laboratory located in Washington, DC. Both DFDRs have been
downloaded, and the data is currently being analyzed. The cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) were
overwritten.
(...)
The traffic alert and collision avoidance system (TCAS) computers have been removed from
both airplanes and have been sent to their respective manufacturers for a download of data.
On February 16th, information from the Southwest TCAS unit was downloaded and is currently being
analyzed.
The Austin Airport Air Traffic Control Tower (AUS ATCT) Air Traffic Manager (ATM) stated at the
time of the incident, there was an extremely low traffic volume and complexity at AUS. The
weather at the time of the incident was low instrument flight rules with the following conditions
being reported: wind calm, visibility 1/4 mile in freezing fog, vertical visibility 200 ft above ground
level, and a temperature minus 1 degree Celsius.
A review of Federal Aviation Administration air traffic control (ATC) audio recordings indicated
that at about 0634, the pilots of FDX1432 established communication with the local controller
and reported their flight was inbound and established on a CAT III instrument landing system
(ILS) approach to runway 18L. The controller provided the pilots with the runway visual range
(RVR) values and cleared them to land. The pilots acknowledged this information.
At 0638:49, the first officer (FO) of SWA708 checked in with the local controller and indicated
they were holding short of runway 18L and were ready for takeoff. The controller provided them
with RVR values, advised them that a FedEx 767 was on a three-mile final (FDX1432), and issued
them a standard takeoff clearance from runway 18L. The FO of SWA708 acknowledged the
clearance with a correct readback. SWA708 proceeded to taxi onto runway 18L and lined up with
the runway centerline and came to a complete stop at which point, control of the aircraft was
transferred from the captain to the FO. The FO indicated that he advanced the power, checked
the engines, and then released the brakes to begin their takeoff roll.
At 0639:32, the pilots of FDX1432 queried the local controller to confirm that they were cleared
to land on runway 18L. According to the captain of FDX1432, he asked for confirmation because
he was concerned about the Southwest traffic. The controller confirmed FDX1432 was cleared
to land and advised them of traffic (SWA708) departing runway 18L ahead of him.
At 0640:12, with FDX1432 on an approximate 0.7-mile final, the local controller queried SWA708
to confirm they were on the roll, to which the captain of SWA708 replied “rolling now.” According
to the captain of FDX1432, he noted that at an altitude of about 150 feet, the FO called go-around
after visually seeing SWA708 at approximately 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet from the approach end
of the runway. At 0640:34 one of the FDX1432 crew broadcasted “Southwest abort” and then at
0640:37 broadcasted that “FedEx is on the go.” According to the SWA708 pilot narratives, the
captain noted that somewhere between the speeds of 80 KIAS and V1, he and the first officer
heard FedEx call for a go-around.
A review of preliminary Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) data revealed that
when FDX1432 was at the departure end of the runway climbing out of 1,900 feet, the controller
instructed FDX1432 to turn left heading 080 and maintain 3,000 feet. At the same time, SWA708
was about 1,000 ft lower than FDX1432 and began a right turn away from the runway heading.
The AUS ATCT ATM reported an overflight appeared to have occurred; however, the closest
proximity has not yet been determined. SWA708 continued their flight plan route to Cancún, and
FDX1432 executed a go-around and returned for landing without incident on runway 18L.
(...)
Certified ADS-B data and audio recordings were provided to the NTSB by the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA). The NTSB is currently analyzing this data.
The digital flight data recorders (DFDRs) were removed from both airplanes and shipped to the
NTSB’s Vehicle Recorder Laboratory located in Washington, DC. Both DFDRs have been
downloaded, and the data is currently being analyzed. The cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) were
overwritten.
(...)
The traffic alert and collision avoidance system (TCAS) computers have been removed from
both airplanes and have been sent to their respective manufacturers for a download of data.
On February 16th, information from the Southwest TCAS unit was downloaded and is currently being
analyzed.
That graph would be very much improved if the vertical lines were removed and instead replaced with lines joining identical points in time. Then one could determine at a glance the relative positions during the event. The verticals are useful for a single plane event where the planet remains in the same place the entire time.
Pegase Driver
at an altitude of about 150 feet, the FO called go-around after visually seeing SWA708 at approximately 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet from the approach end of the runway.
If the pleliminary ADS is correct , and if both were on Runway centerline, the vertical distance at 06:40:31 is quite worrying!
If the system as it stands cannot take the activity rate, then that needs to be reduced, which will call howls of protest, but protects lives. It is too small a sample set to say this is a new trend, but it sure is shaping up to be one, Austin, Boston, John Wayne...
PowerFlarm ADS-B Capability
We glider folk and GA who have PowerFlarm see position, altitude and climb rate of ADS-B emitters from several kilometers away. If I can't reach converging traffic on the radio, I get out of the way.
What the recent incidents have illustrated is that ATC can drop the ball and crews can benefit from seeing potentially conflicting traffic.
What the recent incidents have illustrated is that ATC can drop the ball and crews can benefit from seeing potentially conflicting traffic.