Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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It is difficult to put it all together but insurers succeeded in doing so with regard to a claim presented by one owner, when the claim was denied no appeal or fuss was made- probably in an attempt to stay beneath the authorities radar. The CAA need to grow some balls on this subject, listen to the reports, build some factual databases and start knocking on doors- it can be done.
It is difficult to put it all together but insurers succeeded in doing so with regard to a claim presented by one owner, when the claim was denied no appeal or fuss was made- probably in an attempt to stay beneath the authorities radar. The CAA need to grow some balls on this subject, listen to the reports, build some factual databases and start knocking on doors- it can be done.
Prosecutions
The Civil Aviation Authority is tasked by the Department for Transport to investigate and prosecute breaches of aviation safety rules and some aviation related consumer protection and health and safety requirements.I have little faith in new, revised or additional legislation. What’s there is usually adequate, it just requires the resources to apply it and as we know those resources are limited. A classic example is UK firearms legislation that has steadily enlarged and become more restrictive since it was first enacted in the 1920s. The law abiding observe it and bear its burden, the criminals ignore it and we still have the one off nutters who commit atrocity.
There are ways of making life more difficult for those who attempt to evade the legislation but it would mean further restriction and considerable intrusion on the activities of those who observe the law.
YS
de minimus non curat lex
Expand the legislation so that those who organise/participate/carried on “grey charters” have committed an offence.
Some might say that this is harsh, but adequate protocols need to be established so that such activity simply evaporates away.
Some might say that this is harsh, but adequate protocols need to be established so that such activity simply evaporates away.
whilst I fully understand your sentiments I would caution to be very careful what you wish for. It would appear on first sight that Sala would have committed an offence under the regime you propose. Is that what you would have intended? There are forums on the internet where lawyers and those interested in legal matters hang out, you may wish to ask for views on what you have in mind. Then there’s the Secret Barrister’s blog, it does give an insight into why the law so often appears inadequate and how difficult it can be to fix it; his books aren’t bad either whether or not you agree with his politics.
I am afraid that the only answer is for the industry to “grass up” offenders and then be prepared to give evidence against them if the case comes to court..That can be quite difficult.
YS
Avoid imitations
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The best witness would be a passenger stepping out of the aircraft. Asked the questions: "Did you pay for that flight and if so, who to and how much?" Could be very revealing.
The CAA regularly used to attend major functions such as race meetings and check flights out; how often is this now done?
The CAA regularly used to attend major functions such as race meetings and check flights out; how often is this now done?
I started off my flying career with a PPL, just for pleasure as I was told at school I was too stupid to be a pilot.
After many years of doing it for fun and when I had the hours, hating the job I was in a decided to try to be a pilot.
I thought I was a good, knowledgeable pilot.
I did the BCPL course thinking they were right wot they told me in school, what a step up from PPL stuff!
After that I did the instructor course, same thing, realised I knew nowt even after doing the CPL exams. Learning to pass an exam and having the knowledge to teach it, world apart.
Many hours later of instructing, time for the multi IR. By this time I thought I could fly an airplane. What a shock, the toughest thing I ever did in aviation, it sure “perfected” your handling, situation awareness and planning etc . And so it should.
Getting a job and doing the type ratings were relatively ok after that, well not the getting a job!
A PPL holder doing a grey charter is no way trained and rarely capable of handling what can be thrown at them.
I missed my instructor training, just, when it could be done on a PPL, I was wound up I had to spend my money getting the BCPL first. Looking back it was a change for the good. Now it seems PPL holders can teach etc, backwards step? Same with all this Wingly thing, PPLs advertising charters!
After many years of doing it for fun and when I had the hours, hating the job I was in a decided to try to be a pilot.
I thought I was a good, knowledgeable pilot.
I did the BCPL course thinking they were right wot they told me in school, what a step up from PPL stuff!
After that I did the instructor course, same thing, realised I knew nowt even after doing the CPL exams. Learning to pass an exam and having the knowledge to teach it, world apart.
Many hours later of instructing, time for the multi IR. By this time I thought I could fly an airplane. What a shock, the toughest thing I ever did in aviation, it sure “perfected” your handling, situation awareness and planning etc . And so it should.
Getting a job and doing the type ratings were relatively ok after that, well not the getting a job!
A PPL holder doing a grey charter is no way trained and rarely capable of handling what can be thrown at them.
I missed my instructor training, just, when it could be done on a PPL, I was wound up I had to spend my money getting the BCPL first. Looking back it was a change for the good. Now it seems PPL holders can teach etc, backwards step? Same with all this Wingly thing, PPLs advertising charters!
de minimus non curat lex
Parkfell,
…. It would appear on first sight that Sala would have committed an offence under the regime you propose. Is that what you would have intended?…..
….I am afraid that the only answer is for the industry to “grass up” offenders and then be prepared to give evidence against them if the case comes to court..That can be quite difficult.
YS
…. It would appear on first sight that Sala would have committed an offence under the regime you propose. Is that what you would have intended?…..
….I am afraid that the only answer is for the industry to “grass up” offenders and then be prepared to give evidence against them if the case comes to court..That can be quite difficult.
YS
It is only with significant publicity to any new legislation would the public become aware, and put them on notice that they must play their part in not participating in “grey charters”. The “protocols” to be followed.
1st offence: simply a warning. 2nd offence et seq: get their collar felt.
de minimus non curat lex
At the 700 hour point sufficient non approved training to pass a F170a & undertake the CPL GFTs & IRT under CAP54.
Ground school attendance was not required; you simply applied to sit the CPL ‘Nav block & the ‘Tech block’ exams. PPSC correspondence course was an option. When the BCPL came in, PPL club instructors were granted grandfather rights for a BCPL restricted (to club instructing)
PPL could always instruct in a club environment but not for payments.
As for “this Wingly thing” the CAA need to re-examine all aspects of this style of operation…
Don't want to go to far off topic, but can a PPL still instruct? On my recently gained NPPL each entry in my log book had to be signed by an instructor along with their number.
And getting back on topic, I wonder how many passengers are aware of the position they are in? That the pilot isn't a professional? The a/c isn't operated by an approved organisation? That they are un-insured? What about their employers?
And getting back on topic, I wonder how many passengers are aware of the position they are in? That the pilot isn't a professional? The a/c isn't operated by an approved organisation? That they are un-insured? What about their employers?
but can a PPL still instruct?
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A PPL holder doing a grey charter is no way trained and rarely capable of handling what can be thrown at them.
If I take three people I don’t know for a flight in my aircraft, for example flying veterans and their helpers to Project Propeller, and don’t charge them, that is deemed to be legal and, by implication, to offer an acceptable level of safety. If I charge them for the flight illegally, it doesn’t change the level of the danger they face even though I would be committing an offence.
Last edited by Jonzarno; 30th Oct 2021 at 21:39.
Other key questions.
Who was this Fay Keely, apparently the owner of the aircraft ? Why did they buy it ? Were they current on it ? Was it just for their private use, and if so what records are there of them using it themselves ? The Malibu is a large aircraft for someone unknown to have just for their personal and private use. Were they not equally in it with Henderson ?
Separately, and something I have asked before, why charter in the first place, at considerable cost. There was a commercial KLM connection, Nantes to Amsterdam, and then nicely Amsterdam to Cardiff, at pretty much the same evening times as this charter was operating. If the football player "had to be back" for the following morning, that was the obvious way to go. The cost of even a business class one way ticket would have been a fraction of the charter cost, and much more comfortable and reliable.
Who was this Fay Keely, apparently the owner of the aircraft ? Why did they buy it ? Were they current on it ? Was it just for their private use, and if so what records are there of them using it themselves ? The Malibu is a large aircraft for someone unknown to have just for their personal and private use. Were they not equally in it with Henderson ?
Separately, and something I have asked before, why charter in the first place, at considerable cost. There was a commercial KLM connection, Nantes to Amsterdam, and then nicely Amsterdam to Cardiff, at pretty much the same evening times as this charter was operating. If the football player "had to be back" for the following morning, that was the obvious way to go. The cost of even a business class one way ticket would have been a fraction of the charter cost, and much more comfortable and reliable.
Who was this Fay Keely, apparently the owner of the aircraft ? Why did they buy it ? Were they current on it ? Was it just for their private use, and if so what records are there of them using it themselves ? The Malibu is a large aircraft for someone unknown to have just for their personal and private use. Were they not equally in it with Henderson ?
Other key questions.
Who was this Fay Keely, apparently the owner of the aircraft ? Why did they buy it ? Were they current on it ? Was it just for their private use, and if so what records are there of them using it themselves ? The Malibu is a large aircraft for someone unknown to have just for their personal and private use. Were they not equally in it with Henderson ?
Separately, and something I have asked before, why charter in the first place, at considerable cost. There was a commercial KLM connection, Nantes to Amsterdam, and then nicely Amsterdam to Cardiff, at pretty much the same evening times as this charter was operating. If the football player "had to be back" for the following morning, that was the obvious way to go. The cost of even a business class one way ticket would have been a fraction of the charter cost, and much more comfortable and reliable.
Who was this Fay Keely, apparently the owner of the aircraft ? Why did they buy it ? Were they current on it ? Was it just for their private use, and if so what records are there of them using it themselves ? The Malibu is a large aircraft for someone unknown to have just for their personal and private use. Were they not equally in it with Henderson ?
Separately, and something I have asked before, why charter in the first place, at considerable cost. There was a commercial KLM connection, Nantes to Amsterdam, and then nicely Amsterdam to Cardiff, at pretty much the same evening times as this charter was operating. If the football player "had to be back" for the following morning, that was the obvious way to go. The cost of even a business class one way ticket would have been a fraction of the charter cost, and much more comfortable and reliable.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47626855
de minimus non curat lex
The Coroner’s Inquest is scheduled for February 2022. I hope that various CAA employees are required to attend where M’Learned Friends, with aviation experience can ask salient questions as the regulations & enforcement. Others need to explain their involvement although I suspect unlike a Public Inquiry the Inquest will confine itself more narrowly.
The second Fatal Accident Inquiry in Scotland I attended, as a witness, concerned a solo student pilot killed. High speed exit out of cloud near Sanqhar, Dumfriesshire.
It would be fair to say the CAA employee as a witness (regulatory rôle) wasn’t exactly looking forward to the witness stand. Verdict: Accidental death, but that didn’t prevent the family pursuing a civil claim at the High Court Edinburgh. The whole experience taught me that you must justify every single step you take when involved in aviation, or for that matter any other activity in life.
The second Fatal Accident Inquiry in Scotland I attended, as a witness, concerned a solo student pilot killed. High speed exit out of cloud near Sanqhar, Dumfriesshire.
It would be fair to say the CAA employee as a witness (regulatory rôle) wasn’t exactly looking forward to the witness stand. Verdict: Accidental death, but that didn’t prevent the family pursuing a civil claim at the High Court Edinburgh. The whole experience taught me that you must justify every single step you take when involved in aviation, or for that matter any other activity in life.
The best witness would be a passenger stepping out of the aircraft. Asked the questions: "Did you pay for that flight and if so, who to and how much?" Could be very revealing.
The CAA regularly used to attend major functions such as race meetings and check flights out; how often is this now done?
The CAA regularly used to attend major functions such as race meetings and check flights out; how often is this now done?
Pilot and aircraft owner etc paid a fee, but Henderson was apparently making a living out of it as well. McKay paid Henderson, but doesn't sound the sort of character to have paid for it out of his life savings. So who was paying him even more for each of these flights ? Cardiff football club ? Sala himself ? Skimmed off the £15m "transfer fee" ?
Follow the money
One wonders where the money actually originated.
Pilot and aircraft owner etc paid a fee, but Henderson was apparently making a living out of it as well. McKay paid Henderson, but doesn't sound the sort of character to have paid for it out of his life savings. So who was paying him even more for each of these flights ? Cardiff football club ? Sala himself ? Skimmed off the £15m "transfer fee" ?
Pilot and aircraft owner etc paid a fee, but Henderson was apparently making a living out of it as well. McKay paid Henderson, but doesn't sound the sort of character to have paid for it out of his life savings. So who was paying him even more for each of these flights ? Cardiff football club ? Sala himself ? Skimmed off the £15m "transfer fee" ?
The only way to deal with the problem is via a multi-agency approach and the tactic of following the money.
YS
One wonders where the money actually originated.
Pilot and aircraft owner etc paid a fee, but Henderson was apparently making a living out of it as well. McKay paid Henderson, but doesn't sound the sort of character to have paid for it out of his life savings. So who was paying him even more for each of these flights ? Cardiff football club ? Sala himself ? Skimmed off the £15m "transfer fee" ?
Pilot and aircraft owner etc paid a fee, but Henderson was apparently making a living out of it as well. McKay paid Henderson, but doesn't sound the sort of character to have paid for it out of his life savings. So who was paying him even more for each of these flights ? Cardiff football club ? Sala himself ? Skimmed off the £15m "transfer fee" ?
Not trying to defend grey charters but I think there are probably many highly experienced pilots who fly very safely but who have never needed a CPL because they don’t want to earn money from flying.
Agreed as long as they don’t peddle their wares as a professional pilot to an unsuspecting public
Agreed as long as they don’t peddle their wares as a professional pilot to an unsuspecting public