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cliffnemo
5th Jun 2008, 14:55
Well here goes transferring from F.O Wales blog to this page. So full power, wheels up, flap in by five, and 2850 plus 9. We are away. (maybe)

Will now try and transfer my blog from F.O Wales to this page.

Plenty on here will be very interested Cliff.:ok: Yesterday 11:30 cliffnemo F.o Wales
Herewith garbled version of my efforts to obtain my wings during the 39/45 war.

numerous visits to recruiting office with hundreds of other hopeful future spitfire pilots. Finally accepted for consideration.(Didn't finish up on Spits)

Three days at R.A.F Padgate for exams including maths, geometry. etc. Tests for colour blindness . Tunnel vision, night vision ,physical fitness etc.etc.

A few weeks later accepted as pilot U/T to be informed tbat as i was in a reserved occupation the R.A.F would endevour to obtain my release from the ministry of labour. In the meanwhile to join the A.T.C to learn signals. basic navigation.
Six months later received letter I was now in the R.A.F VR on deferred service as an A.C 2 and given a silver V.R lapel badge.
Three months later instructed to report to Lords cricket ground where I remained in a "luxury flat" for a month .classes in maths, basic navigation . aircraft recognition, drill, P.T. swimming and life saving plus ?

Six months at Torquay I.T.W previous subjects plus morse- radio and aldis- ,navigation, dinghy practice in the harbour, five mile cross country runs. clay pidgeon and deflection shooting, armanents (strip our machine guns in the dark and name all parts) engines, aerodynamics. hydraulics. Classes held in any vacant premises, miles apart, uphill and downhill at 140 paces to the minute, and arms up to shoulder level Passed out L.A.C

One month at Marshalls flying school,had to solo on tiger moth in under ten hours to qualify for further pilot training. Passed and posted to R.A.F Heaton Park A.C.D.C for one month ,with usual training subjects

PHEW. wonder if any one is interested, it's hard going.
This is my first attempt at this sort of thing and I may be flogging a dead horse so will submit this to see what happens. If there is interest, I will try to describe my career via Nova Scotia, Oklahoma. Gulf of Mexico and finally to 150 Sqdn Hemswell. I might even tell the story of being retained on a court of enquiry pending court martial for low flying over a ladies college near Harrogate.
CLIFF.
NILS BASTARDO CARBORUNDUM so if some one will confirm that the system is working I will try to relate my progress from A.C 2 to Warrant officer, and after "cessation of hostilities" how I remustered as W.O/AC1 equipment assistant. Don't expect any tales of derring do, there weren't any. I was lucky.
Cliff

Petasus
5th Jun 2008, 15:04
Excellent stuff Cliff :D
The thing works, I'm sure there's plenty of us who want to hear more!
That college for ladies? Not Queen Ethelburga's was it?

cliffnemo
5th Jun 2008, 15:31
It certainly was, in a Tiger Moth. Luckily my oppo a Belgian pilot had signed as pilot for the trip and me as navigator . But more later. We had previously been billeted in the Majestic Hotel. and he had "met" one of the young ladies.
Cliff.
Cliff.

KiloDeltaYankee
5th Jun 2008, 18:00
Fascinating, please tell us more Cliff!

KDY

x213a
5th Jun 2008, 19:54
Cheers Cliff, keep it up:ok:

Melchett01
5th Jun 2008, 20:09
You can't stop there Cliff - let's have the rest!

Would be fascinated to hear more about the solo in under 10 hrs and other similar criteria for continuing in trg - you might have thought that given the need for aircrews at the time things might have been relaxed a little more. Or was it the case that we need to get you through in 10 hrs because there are another bunch of trainees waiting to go through the system behind you and we don't want you clogging it up?

critter sized
5th Jun 2008, 20:19
A real Cliff hanger !! Give us more.

Zoom
5th Jun 2008, 20:43
Wonderful stuff, Cliff, and it looks as if you have a keen audience already. Keep going. Can we have more detail in future posts as so far you've covered about a year and a half of your life in just a few sentences? :ok:

cliffnemo
6th Jun 2008, 10:00
Relaxed???, just before my final check ride at Marshals flying school, I was a "bag of nerves"(the reason why it was of monumental importance to me may be explained later)
. My instructor (an ex R.F.C pilot) said I should have a cigarette, I have been smoking ever since.Disgusting. No nothing was rushed or skimped. plenty of aspiring spitfire pilots to choose from. The Air Ministry obtained a lot of navigators, and bomb aimers from those who didn't solo, however many did volunteer for navigator or bomb aimer direct. Our main aim AT THAT TIME, was to stop our relatives being killed and our homes being wrecked The training system had improved radically by the time i joined. I hope to tell you about my friend who went to the recruiting office with me. He started training straight away. His training period must have been very short as he was K.I.A on beaufighters before I had finished I.T.W I have nothing but admiration for the education section. IT was PERFECT.

Will now try to find time to continue,when I hope most questions will be answered. starting with my safe journey through U boat alley to Halifax, Nova Scotia anD R.A.F Moncton.
Cliff.
Must be tea, coffee is three h'apence. (NAAFI)

Dan D'air
6th Jun 2008, 10:08
Fantastic stuff Cliff, please, please, please keep it coming!! :D:D

The Dominant Male
6th Jun 2008, 15:13
Please keep it coming. I think we can learn a lot from history. Did you keep flying after the war, have met a couple of WWII pilots who never flew again after cessation of hostilities.

goudie
6th Jun 2008, 15:19
WWII pilots who never flew again after cessation of hostilities
I have a friend who was a Halifax pilot, I asked him once, had he considerd a flying career after the war.
'Good God no old chap' he replied, 'far too dangerous'!

cliffnemo
6th Jun 2008, 15:45
No. Happy to be home with plenty of birds;backy, and beer.My best friend who trained with me in Ponca City decided to become a weekend R.A.F flyer after the war. On his first flight in a Harvard, he took off from St Athan ,his engine cut and he "landed" in the drink. Being well trained in "dingy dingy prepare for ditching " made a perfect "landing"., released his harness, inflated his Mae West and floated out as the Harvard sank. As he didn't like getting wet he decided to stay ashore.
Cliff.

cliffnemo
6th Jun 2008, 19:12
Before I start, if any one is expecting thrilling tales such as "there I was upside down, and nothing on the clock but the makers name" then this will not interest you . But if you are interested in what happened to me that's fine.

O.K so we have now arrived at Heaton Park plenty of classes and drill and P.T (now P.E). We are now getting somewhere, we can drill for fifteen minutes without a word of command and going through the complete drill book, also march for miles at 140 to the minute, the army marched at 120 with the exception of the Durham light infantry.

After a month we pack our worldly posessions into kit bag, side pack, and big pack, but minus, gas mask;gas cape, and gloves and take the train to Liverpool.
As we board the ship over the Tannoy we hear Frank Sinatra singing his latest song Nice and easy does it.
The captain then announces that he is ordered to maintain a minimum of twenty nine knots until we reach Halifax , so that Uboats can't catch us , and that if anyone falls overboard, all they can do is throw us a life belt( some comedian said "don't worry he will pick you up on the way back"). There were about eight thousand of us on board including German P.O.Ws, nurses, wounded Americans, and us. We were all allocated duties eight hours off, and four on, mine being to stand on the stern with a .303 S.M.L.E . I never found out why. The holds were scaffolded out to form bunks with about three feet (sorry we didn't have metres then) headroom, which were occupied night and day in shifts. We were really enjoying the cruise until we reached the Atlantic, when a storm blew up. Steaming at twenty nine knots into a gale was quite exciting, with the waves going over the bridge and even sailors being sea sick. I was later offered a commission in the fleet air arm but refused as I never wanted to go to sea again.

After four and half days we landed at Halifax and took the train to R.A.F Moncton, New Brunswick. More classes and drill. After a month we left for The Darr School of Aeronautics .Ponca City , Oklahoma.
Will describe the seven day train journey, and the flying training in my next contribution.
Sorry to be so long winded but, think I am bit annoyed that a certain gentleman received the coveted wings in four months, and forty hours flying. I had to do forty hours "under the hood on the Link trainer"
Cliff.

Petasus
6th Jun 2008, 19:18
Top stuff Cliff. Keep it coming!:D

x213a
6th Jun 2008, 19:55
:ok::ok:
Quite humbling.

S'land
6th Jun 2008, 20:45
Cliff, more please.

exscribbler
6th Jun 2008, 21:37
More, more, more!

cliffnemo
7th Jun 2008, 08:18
A REPLY TO THE DOMINANT MALE
Only birds and fools fly, and birds don't fly at night (Confusius)

jonfranc
7th Jun 2008, 11:11
More please. J.F.B.

x213a
8th Jun 2008, 07:04
What did your worldly possessions consist of? What was the scran like? What was the accom like? Could you please describe it, even the nitty gritty. Did you at any point feel you would fail? Did anybody fail? What happened to them if they did?

So many things would like to ask. Please carry on:D

cliffnemo
10th Jun 2008, 11:04
At last we have a stable bed in comfortable wooden huts with the usual coke stoves. Unfortunately most of us "erks" are suffering from disentry. plenty of chalk and opium supplied by sick quarters, it is soon cured .It's summer and pleasant to be outside. We are all issued with Canadian pilot log books,and if memory serves me right, with Sidcot flying suit. silk inner suit. silk under gloves leather gauntlet gloves. leather flying helmet. goggles and those floppy suede flying boots which were superseded by escape boots, We were then told we would be shortly allocated to various E.F.T.Ss in Canada. or B.F.T.S (B for British)) in America.
Every one hopes to be posted to America. In the meantime we can get in or out of camp at any time, through "the hole in the fence" An enterprising Canadian runs a bus service to this hole, and we are always "informed" when the S.Ps occasionally visit. Life is good,
with food we haven't tasted for two years. No rationing here. Sweet caporal Canadian cigs reminding one of horse manure were cheap. (I use this expression as my sister may be logged in). I and a few others have been allocated to the Darr School of Aeronautics near Ponca City, Oklahoma,which is one of six American flying schools operated under lease lend. (more info on this or the previous Arnold scheme, if any one is interested)

After a month at Moncton we set off by train( Atcheson Topeka and Santa Fe) for Oklahoma. We were a bit surprised at the standard of the rolling stock, Buffalo BILL would have accepted it as normal. However we soon found out it was to be a pleasant journey. A coke stove at each end of the saloon, with each, two bench seats, facing each other making up a bed for two at night. A pull down bunk above our heads accommodated the the other two cadets. (When we got over the border we became kay- dets) We traveled by night and day for seven days, including a day off in Chicago while they oiled the engine, and only stopping for coal and water.

At our first stop for coal and water , the train which was the longest we had ever seen, pulled up at the platform, and we were amazed to see the platform covered in tables and chairs. the tables being laden with ice cream, oranges (unobtainable in the U.K) Coke. Lucky Strike cigs: etc. Very friendly ladies standing behind the tables. ready to serve us with anything we required free. Some thanked us for volunteering to fight Tojo and Hitler We departed to rousing cheers wondering what we had done to deserve it, This was repeated every time we stopped. Just wondering if any one who is complaining about being held up at Heathrow for eight hours is reading this.Five weeks have passed, and we have a week to go.

We travel down I THINK through Quebec, Montreal, Toronto. Detroit, Chicago and Oklahoma City. and finally Ponca city one week later (Mike of The 6 B.F.T.S association) if you have found this site as suggested, you may correct this if my memory has let me down.
I now have to recuperate, so will sign off for a while, but hope to move on next to spins . slow rolls, imelmans.circuits and bumps .

CLIFF.
According to the laws of aerodynamics it is impossible for a bumble bee to fly. Fortunately the bumble bee doesn't know any thing about aerodynamics, so carries on flying.

cliffnemo
10th Jun 2008, 11:16
Hi. x213a,
I will certainly reply, but it will require some thinking about as my memory ain't what it used to be, will do a print out of your questions.More later. I have to light my pipe.
I,m enjoying this , but worried about white finger syndrome
Cliff

cliffnemo
10th Jun 2008, 14:28
My answers to your questions.
1, Worldly possessions.? Not much. We were paid three shillings and sixpence per day equivalent to about three pints of beer and a packet of cigarettes Couldn't afford a watch or lighter. Might have been 4s6d ( four and sixpence), when I became and L.A.C.
I did own a tooth brush, razor. writing paper and stamps. /The rest was made up with issue items such as two pairs of under pants (they should have increased this number) two vests ,knife fork and spoon, two towels. one pair shoes one pair boots (airmen for the use off -stores nomenclature-) stainless steel clasp knife with tin opener It was an offense to be found in possession of a camera or radio and later on had to have permission to have a car or motorbike (they ran quite well on high octane fuel.)

2 accommodation varied about eight to a room at I.T.W Torquay but we did have two cotton sheets as standard aircrew issue (the army didn't) Later it was mainly nissan huts, with 2 coke stoves and no coke (joke)

3 FOOd In the U.K This varied from good to bloody awful but very little eggs and bacon, (except later when providing we got more than half way across the North sea we were guaranteed bacon and eggs for breakfast), a lot of stewed prunes .carrots, potatoes cheese on toast. semolina pudding. However when in the U.S of A the catering was top class.

3 Did you ever think you would fail. Yes all the time

.At the recruiting centre it would be impossible to count the number of would be spitfire pilots who were not accepted. Also quite a few were eliminated as they failed the solo under ten hours test at Cambridge.
Cant remember the number of pilot U/Ts who failed the exams at the I,T.W some did, but the records show that on my course no 15 at Ponca city out of one hundred and four Briish and seventeen American cadets twenty two were eliminated,but think there were more. While I was there two were killed Out of the total for the war out of1230 total 197 were eliminated. Any one who washed out, as we called it. returned to Canada, to train as navigator. or bomb aimer.Please note a lot of navigators and bomb aimers chose that duty. Later the classification of Pilot U/T was changed to P.N.B (PILOT NAVIGATOR BOMB AIMER)
CLIFF.
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be

The Dominant Male
11th Jun 2008, 16:00
Cliff, fascinating.

What were your instructors like? Were they experienced (operationally) or did they have first tour pilots fed back into the instructor stream. It is quite difficult these days to wash someone out of flying training (not necessarily a bad thing...don't want to throw out babies with the bath water!). Did your instructors generally want to be there, or would they have rather been at a front line squadron. (I know I am asking for you to speak on their behalf, and will understand if you cannot or don't wish to answer that).

You mentioned 40 hours under the bag. What was your total hours until gaining wings?

Great to hear of the reception you received at the train stations. Having been to the USA in uniform I am still amazed and amused about the way they still treat their uniformed members. I think the national pride in our own countries is probably equal, but the yanks are a lot more demonstrative in their appreciation.

Yes I realise I may take flak for the above comment, and I am speaking in vast generalisations. Note: Local conditions may vary.

TDM

brakedwell
12th Jun 2008, 09:48
Great stuff Cliff. You obviously couldn't afford the time to go skiing in Kloisters! :)

cliffnemo
12th Jun 2008, 10:33
REPLY TO YOUR QUESTIONS
The majority of the instructors were excellent pilots, but more importantly were excellent patient teachers, However they were American civilians . who I suspect were ex crop dusters, mail pilots with hundreds of hours behind them.Bear in mind this was an American camp under the lend lease agreement, with only a few R.A.F officers. The instructors seemed happy to be there, Who wouldn't 103 (F) in the shade, a swimming pool. fantastic food, a car with all the petrol (sorry gas) they required at a few cents a gallon, etc. despite the war.

Total hours to gain wings, 9.5 hours solo test on Tiger moth. 100hrs on P.T 17s (Boeing-Stearman biplane). 100 hours A.T 6 (Harvard to you), including a 2000 mile navigation test down to the Gulf of Mexico. Plus 40 hours on the link trainer "under the hood", which was possibly the first flight simulator. Plus many more Hours in classrooms,how many? who knows.
As for national pride ,I was extremely impressed. Every morning we paraded to hoist the stars and stripes and the union jack. An American would hoist old glory, the following day he would hoist the union jack ( flag sorry). One morning a British cadet was hoisting the stars and stripes but it was touching the floor, whereupon the American cadet shouted "get that flag of the deck Mr" The British cadet replied "you can take your flag and stuff it up your **** and then the stars to keep it there. The British cadet was given two hours to get out of the camp and sent back to the U.K You see no American can allow their flag to touch the ground.
CLIFF.

cliffnemo
12th Jun 2008, 10:42
Thought you said SKIVING at first. ('Nuff said) I was one of the lucky ones we managed to get fourteen days on return to the U.K after nearly a year after the last time home. Some were away for years or for ever.
Cliff.
P.S If any one cannot understand some of my ancient expressions or acronyms then just ask. Sorry still think imperial rather than metric I do know 2.54cm = 1" but it means nothing to me. Could read the thirty two points of the compass but the R.A.F changed to three sixty degrees mid war but retained knots. Could be tother way round, did they change the airspeed indicator from miles to knots? any one know? or care.

cliffnemo
12th Jun 2008, 11:01
Amazing, Just had a private email via pprune from an ex B.F.T.S cadet named George. He trained at Miami, Oklahoma (not the miami)
He said he didn't want to "steel my thunder" I have asked him to contribute, he could help to rectify (diplomatically) some of my mistakes, my memory ain't what it used to be, and 60 odd years ago?

brakedwell
12th Jun 2008, 14:14
Just keep it coming Cliff and the more the better, you make RAF Ternhill and RAF Swinderby in the mid fifties seem very boring.

cliffnemo
13th Jun 2008, 10:53
I have been trying to paste and copy my photos in photo bucket on to this site (Me as brand new sprog or erk at I.T.W complete with white starched flash in "hats field service", and white blanco'd webbing belt and V.R shoulder badges) with no success Can any one help this impecunious O.A.P (Violins on shoulders) ? Have had an email from another ex 6 B.F.T.S bod with excellent pic showing him with pathfinder Mosquito Would also like to attach it (providing there isn't a woman with a pram looking for him)
Think photos can be copied, as I have seen them on other pages.

Terra firma? yes the more firma the less terroor

harrym
15th Jun 2008, 17:44
Thanks for the memories Cliffnemo, I followed a roughly similar path. For the Atlantic crossing on the QM we were accompanied by Winston and most of his cabinet, plus assorted chiefs of staff en route to the (first) Quebec conference while other bigwigs on board included Guy Gibson and Orde Wingate.

At some point it was decided that we cadets should be inspected by the great man himself, so one day we all were lined up somewhat shambolically on the port promenade deck. Next to our flight/section or whatever was a group of French Air Force cadets that attracted Winnie's special attention. Stopping to question one of them, he enquired "how did you get over from France?", to be answered "on ze boat, M'siear". "Jolly good" said WC, "when was that?" "In 1938" was the response, result collapse of stout party.

Normally the Queens and other large liners sailed unescorted, so we were surprised to find a destroyer close by on the first morning with other vessels visible further away. However the weather was pretty rough and plainly it was having a hard time keeping up with our 30+ knot speed, eventually falling back out of sight; using our newly acquired morse skills, we divined from her signalling lamp that the sea state made station keeping impossible. For the rest of the crossing no escorts were visible until we came in sight of the Canadian coast.

Keep it coming!

Wiley
15th Jun 2008, 18:20
Harry, I'm sure Cliff won't be offended if you give us more of your story too.

Anyone who'd like a Navigator's version of events (and training in Canada that closely parallels Cliff's experiences as shared with us to date) should look out for 'No Moon Tonight' by Don Charlwood. Probbly even a better read is 'Journeys into Darkness' by the same author, essentially the same story as 'No Moon Tonight', but written thirty years later, when he felt more free to say what really happened without worrying about certain people's reputations. Both books are available for as little as $1.00 at www.abebooks.com

Charlwood's crew were the first crew to complete a tour of 30 missions in their squadron (103 Sqn) in eleven months. Think about all that that implies. Until them, not a single crew from the squadron had survived 30 missions in almost a year.

cliffnemo
16th Jun 2008, 09:45
We didn't have a destroyer escort, but a Sunderland circled us until we were half way across the Atlantic, when a Catalina took over. We heard later the Queen Mary crossing at the same time as us, and in the same storm, had to go into dry dock in New York for repairs to plates. We also heard that on a later trip she had run over a destroyer (the Cuarasao ?) and didn't even stop.

Typed another contribution yesterday and saved it, the original disappeared and couldn't find the saved file After recuperation will try again. Am still trying to add photos using photo bucket but so far only managed to print on this page the URL characters and no piccy. Any one any ideas.
Cliff
P.S Thanks for the encouragement, that's what keeps me going.
If you can't stand a joke, you shouldn't have joined

cliffnemo
16th Jun 2008, 09:51
<and training in Canada that closely parallels Cliff's experiences> See wily's above.

Parallel maybe.

but as grammatically correct no.

henry crun
16th Jun 2008, 10:33
cliff: posting pics. Copy the img code from Photobucket.

Now open your reply window in Pprune and click on the "insert image" icon, it is the second to last one in the row.

This will open another window titled "Please enter the URL of your image", paste the Photbucket image code in here, but make sure you only have one http at the start. Also delete any [img] if you have copied those over.

Click OK, and your photo should appear

cliffnemo
16th Jun 2008, 14:47
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/001.jpg
Am now experimenting . If successful a picture of me as a pilot/ut white flash: blanco'd belt, and V.R patches will appear.

cliffnemo
16th Jun 2008, 15:03
much appreciated henry. When I get to Ponca city, will be able to show pictures of PT17 , AT6s control tower etc.
Will reduce size.
Cliff.

cliffnemo
16th Jun 2008, 15:26
Yes hrym please help. it's hard going.
Cliff.

harrym
16th Jun 2008, 17:11
Wiley - I would like to oblige, but memoirs of my pilot training in Canada run to over twenty pages of A4 (single-sided), far too lengthy for reproduction here. However, would be delighted to e-mail them to you; is there a way I could acquire your address without you having to publish it in this forum?

rusty sparrow
16th Jun 2008, 18:02
This is great - please continue it Cliff. Nothing like hearing this first hand.

DX Wombat
16th Jun 2008, 22:42
AIDU, please have some respect. Without the efforts of Cliff and his colleagues none of us might be here today.
I am thoroughly enjoying this. My father was also from Liverpool, joined the RAF as a Sergeant Pilot and would have been 86 last year so it is great to hear from someone of the same era.
Cliff, did you attend Project Propeller at Old Warden this year?

rusty sparrow
17th Jun 2008, 07:43
AIDU - Cliff writes it so well that I hear his voice as I read it.

Ewan Whosearmy
17th Jun 2008, 09:29
Cliff and Harry - fascinating stuff. Please do keep posting!

x213a
17th Jun 2008, 09:45
Thanks for this Cliff. Was the banter the same in those days?...cos you were a jug-eared bugger on the phot etc!!!

Joking aside, please continue.
What, at that time were you led to believe you were fighting for and in actuality what did you think? I ask that because that is one thing I never asked my grandfather so I could maybe correlate reason and put today's to-doings into perspective. He ain't around to ask now.

Edit: Did you feel a purpose?

cliffnemo
17th Jun 2008, 10:56
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/ThorneyIsland.jpgHave just received an email from Jack Youens who was trained at 6 B.F.T.S.
Hope a copy of his email will attach here. Also, am using pic of his "mossy" to practice reducing size of pic.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/NEG073.jpg

Email from Jack >
"Have been a member of 6BFTS association for years. but have never managed to go on any of the annual dos'.Did you come across a Laurie Youens my younger brother ? he was anavigator in 692 Pathfinder Squadron, like me was in the Merchant navy first and also his ship the Athelaird was torpedoed and he was in a lifeboat for 10 days. We both said sod this and transfered to the RAF. What were you flying? I know there is 6 years between us. were you at Ponca City? best wishes Jack ">
-------------------------------------------------
Here's hoping I get some help from Jack who was a pathfinder on mosquitos.
At least his brother was floating around in a life boat and not in the "drink" in a Mae West, blowing his Acme whistle that was attached to the top clip on his battle dress blouse.

Hope to resume my trip down to Oklahoma soon
CLIFF.

cliffnemo
17th Jun 2008, 11:16
There is a way to email me. (I THINK)
Top orange row click on user C.P
Click on send new message
Enter your user name.
I will try the same to you.
One of us might hit the target.
Clff.

airborne_artist
17th Jun 2008, 11:18
Cliff - no picture of a Mosquito deserves to be that small! Not sure what you use to re-size pictures, but I'd suggest that 700 x 500 (if landscape) is about right. The one you have posted is only 320 wide.

Keep it up - it's great.

cliffnemo
17th Jun 2008, 14:29
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/ThorneyIsland-1-1.jpg

airborne_artist
17th Jun 2008, 14:36
Fabtastic :ok:

cliffnemo
17th Jun 2008, 15:54
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img021.jpg

Above my home until 1941.


Hi x213
Keep joking thats what kept us going." He's gone for a Burton, Gone for a s**t etc meant no disrepect but helped to prevent any one getting emotional
With regard to banter never about the ears, but all the time ,such as when I did a "ground loop" Or when I developed a method of flying straight and level under the hood. I decided an easier way was to use the rate of climb indicator instead of "needle:ball, airspeed". Didn't know there was a two second time lag before it registered a climb or descent. Never heard the end of it.particularly from my instructor.

Your question did we feel a purpose.(See pic above) Well , at the recruiting office the first question always asked was why do you want to be a pilot. I believe the text book answer was something like to propel a bomb or bullet to a predetermined position, but Geof Davies (K.I.A Beaufighters ) and I (young and daft )said to stop Germans flattening our houses. Seemed that was nearly as good , and a lot better than "it's the uniform init",

Also quite a lot of things happened before we went to the recruiting office, which I thought I would leave out. Especially a my old aunt Kate would have said " Thoos being ower dramatic lad", I have posted a picture of my home in 41, from a newspaper cutting. Not very good but the you may notice the trees with no leaves on.

Would be quite happy to get off the train to Ponca and enlarge on why Geoff and I were a bit annoyed.

PPRuNe Pop
17th Jun 2008, 16:10
Cliff,

A marvellous thread and much appreciated as you can see.

Your pic would be good in 800x600 which we try to encourage - wider goes off the edge - but that size is good.

Keep the stuff coming if you have the time for it.

Best wishes,

PPP

cliffnemo
17th Jun 2008, 16:41
THANKS.
Roger. Wilco ,out.
Cliff

x213a
17th Jun 2008, 18:00
Thanks Cliff!

Keep it up:ok:

cliffnemo
18th Jun 2008, 16:32
On the train to Ponca City, we had very little to do other than watch the country side go past; play cards, or revise from our school notebooks. We had no radios and only occasionally had access to news papers. The food was good, and we didn't need the coke stoves as it was warm. So we revised.
using our notebooks , written in pencil, instructions on how to allow for compass deviation on acceleration, or deceleration of the aircraft; variation, `liquid swirl, angle of dip. The gyro compass and how it preset every ten minutes. Meteorology. height of clouds, and icing possibility in various clouds, orographic clouds, the geostrophic scale, warm fronts, cold fronts, isobars. Armaments, gravity drop. deflection, gun sights, aircraft recognition , their wing spans , and max speed. Pen and ink drawings (no biros then) of the internals of altimeters and air speed incicators. Engines and the Otto cycle. The list is endless , at this stage we were being taught, how to navigate, to operate machine guns, use the bomb sight, operate the radio,etc, and drill for fifteen minutes with only one word of command. At that time no one was able to decide what type of aircraft we would eventually fly . I only mention the above as maybe the odd reader may think that all we did , was to jump in a kite and learn how to pull and push a few levers and pedals. By this time about 1943 the R.A.F educational system was faultless, I for one think it was not only thorough and superb ,but the best education I ever had.

We were eventually told we were approaching Ponca and prepare to disembark. As we entered the suburbs it was early on a sunlit morning, (about 103 f in the shade) and we were absolutely amazed to see whole families asleep on camp beds in their gardens. On disembarking we found a few 4X4 3 ton Chevrolet trucks waiting to load us and our kit and take us to the airfield. On the way we noticed the wide clean main street with cars parked at right angles to the kerb, and we were surprised to see that the streets only ran North; South; East, or West.

We eventually arrived at the The Darr School of Aeronautics and shown into the billets, they were immaculate, light and airy, complete with gas central heating, and grids at each window, down witch water trickled, to trap the dust produced by the aircraft taking off.

But now our biggest shock, we were told Oklahoma was south of the Mason-Dixon line, and it was a dry state. No pubs, and it was illegal to walk through the town with a bottle of spirits when the seal was broken. and theoretically nowhere to buy it from. However Erks then were as , I am sure they still are ,very resourceful . Tell you about it next time, when I hope to tell you about the flying training, classrooms. and of course the birds.
Will probably now refer to my oppos as kaydets rather than erks. Suppose I should really have called them leading aircraft men.

Get yer air cut.

jonathon68
18th Jun 2008, 16:38
Firstly thanks for your wartime service.

Please keep up the story, with as much detail as possible.

My grandfather was a slightly earlier generation, joining march 1938, and subsequently serving until 1968. After instructing, he survived two tours on Beaufighters, with 7 kills DFC etc. He is a quiet, modest man who will only talk about his wartime service in terms of brief amusing anecdotes etc.

My most prized posession is the Luftwaffe escape compass which the crew of a downed He111 gave to my grandad in north africa in 1943. My daughters are fairly young, and it is not easy for me to try and convey to them what you guys did. Accounts about the day to day issues make the history come to life.

I look fowards to reading more info, when you have the time.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
18th Jun 2008, 19:51
I want to add that this is a wonderful thread. Please keep it going. It's prune at its best. :ok:

S'land
18th Jun 2008, 20:14
Fantastic. We need to hear more about this and other stories similar to it. There is no doubt that reading of the derring-do of the dog fights, bombing missions, etc. is interesting and important, but so is finding out about the "ordinary" things that happened at the time. History is made up of many parts, not just the big events.

Wiley
19th Jun 2008, 03:14
Can I safely assume I'm not the only one to get an aviation hard on (laced with absolute envy) when I look at the pic of those (very) young men in front of the Mosquito? That is a seriously horny aeroplane.

(Tin hats on, everyone. War-ie to follow.)

When I first joined the RAAF (yep, the double-A one), we had an old Flight Sergeant fireman - (he probably wasn’t even 40, but to us then, older than God) - who told us a story of when he first joined the Service in the early 50s. He and a dozen other teenage Airmen were issued axes and sent off to chop through the main spars of twenty or thirty Mosquitoes before they were to be sold for scrap. (Believe it or not, some farmers used the plywood fuselages as hay stores!)

He said an officer had to be present to witness and sign off that each aircraft had been rendered unairworthy (an axe through the wooden main spar tends to do that!) and the officer in question was a Flight Lieutenant pilot with four rows of WW2 medals, who, they discovered, had flown Mosquitoes on operations. He and all his teenage mates were agog to see this officer with tears streaming down his face as he watched them swing their axes. Reading Cliff and Harry’s stories, I think just about all of us today would have some inkling of how he felt.

(harrym, check your private messages - top right of the page, where you sign in.)

cliffnemo
19th Jun 2008, 10:10
Many thanks for your contribution. Appreciated .
However, a caveat, (in fun of course, should that be "joshing"?). The words real prune were not as complementary "in my day" .

Here is the reason. All aircrew U/T received copies of a magazine called T.M an acronym for Training Magazine. Quite amusing, but very instructive. The main character being one P.O (pilot officer) Prune (the main reason I discovered this forum) He made every mistake possible, and is the one who supposedly set his compass red on black and bombed Ireland. Stories about the bomb aimer with his ,left left, steady steady. whoa back a bit. So then being called P/O Prune was the same as being called a clot,

Nice to hear from the U.S of A. I have many complimentary things to say so Stay tooned (sic) in.

cliffnemo
19th Jun 2008, 10:36
Thanks for your encouragement.
To Jonathan 68 your grandfather was one of the REAL pilots, how I envy him.

To Sland yes I have no tales of digging my way out of Stalag whatsit, with my knife: fork ; mug, and spoon. or being chased by an ME 109, doing an Immelman and then waiting until I am only 200 yds behind (waiting to see the whites of their eyes) before opening fire. If only.

To Whiley , yes I know the feeling well, When I was waiting for demob I was stationed at R.A.F Burtonwood, saw fortresses being flown in, and then lifted by crane onto a big heap, but there was one consolation, plenty of souvenirs , nuff said (hope no one from the Air Ministry is logged in)

GET THAT LIGHT OUT.

cliffnemo
19th Jun 2008, 10:54
No I didn't go to Project Propeller , don't go far these days, been there.

However I did visit Elvington with the Liverpool branch of the aircrew association a great bunch of vets, to view the roll out of th finished (non flying) Halifax.I sometimes visit the Great Orme on a sunny day in my beach buggy.

Beach buggy ?????? Yes it reminds me of flying a tiger moth, or driving a Willy's Jeep , very nostalgic.

georgejibson
19th Jun 2008, 11:07
Hey Uncle Cliff, this is very cool. I want to know all about everything. We go on a trip to Eden Camp tomorrow and I have taken your photos in to school, everyone very impressed. I will read more later, now I have registered, I will put you in my favourites and come back later.

Love George xx

cliffnemo
21st Jun 2008, 14:21
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img023-1.jpgJust looking through my photos for suitable pics for Publication. Found this one. Hope to use others to illustrate my stay at Ponca City. Will try and obtain an optimum size in future. The board reads "Gulf Coast air force training center" On the left my oppo Hardy Albrecht from Atkins Iowa, and self at the camp gates. I am now in American summer issue, but still with "hats , field service, airmen for the use of" and black tie. More about Hardy later, and why we had American cadets on our course.

September 09 experimenting to see if picture can be replaced.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/HARDIECLIFF267.jpg

richatom
21st Jun 2008, 18:47
While you were at Moncton, was one of your instructors Max Ward by any chance?

J.A.F.O.
22nd Jun 2008, 00:30
Thanks Cliff, for the stories and for what you did 65 years ago.

Keep it coming.

And as you mentioned Fg Off Wales; why is it Wales? That's not his name, that's his Dad's job. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I wasn't Sgt Warehouse-Manager so why is he Fg Off Wales?

Wiley
22nd Jun 2008, 04:45
I've just finished reading harrym's very well written account of his trip across the Atlantic and his training in Canada and have urged him to share it here with all Pprune readers, as an addendum to Cliff's entertaining reminisces.

Having done a similar course 25 years after Harry, much of what he went through was instantly recognisable to me, (although I have to admit that his description of the Canadian winter convinced me that I had it easy, enduring 'only' a Melbourne winter during mine [which was *** cold enough for me!!!]).

I suspect students currently on course in any military flying training school would find much they too would recognise in Harry's tale if he decides to share it with us all.

Harry, I hope you decide to do so.

brakedwell
22nd Jun 2008, 08:27
And as you mentioned Fg Off Wales; why is it Wales? That's not his name, that's his Dad's job. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I wasn't Sgt Warehouse-Manager so why is he Fg Off Wales?

Perhaps he likes singing! Now back to the subject please.

cliffnemo
22nd Jun 2008, 10:40
To Wiley
Harrym is more than welcome. You seem to know enough about computers. Perhaps you, or one of his young relatives may know a way to scan his twenty pages. transfer to photobucket , or other host and print a readable copy on this link Think there are quite a lot of youngsters (any one below 65) who would like to know what it was like to live on stewed prunes, bully beef and cheese on toast: and when you had to fly at least half way across the North sea to qualify for a breakfast of egg and bacon. Seems to me that for some time the school syllabus has ignored recent history, but are now taking an interest. I suspect we have quite a few youngsters reading this, who now want to know. (see young George contribution above). So "get weaving" Wiley

With regard to cold in Canada, I aint got to that yet, but I can assure you that when we returned to Canada in mid winter we stripped put on our silk padded inner flying suits first and uniforms on top didn't take them off until we returned to god's country.

To Richatom. Sorry , didn't know him , we only had ground staff instructors at Moncton.

To J.A.F.O
You naughty boy, what makes you think this has anything to do with a certain F/O ? so pass. next question.
Does any one know if there are any computers in The Tower?

Joke, What's your number ? number? When I joined we didn't have numbers , every one new each other.

pulse1
22nd Jun 2008, 11:00
I hope to take a neighbour flying tomorrow. He trained with the RAF in Canada and got his wings just as the war against Hitler finished. He then trained on Liberators for the Far East and that war finished before he got there. All his attempts to fly after that were doomed by one thing or another, except for some UAS flying in Tiger Moths.

I hope that he is going to be able to get in and out of a Condor as, for once, the weather looks good.

He tells me that, during his training on Liberators, they were on a formation bombing mission near Seattle and were fired on by the Americans (nothing changes!). The leader, an ex Lancaster pilot with many missions over Germany, saw the AA guns in some sand dunes and dived down and dropped his bombs very close to them. The American high command apparently agreed that that was fair retribution for the stupidity of their AA gunners and no action was taken against him.

x213a
22nd Jun 2008, 11:04
Hi Cliff!

What were inter-service relationships like in those days? How did the airforce view the navy/army etc? Was there the same good hearted rivalry as today, the banter etc?

What was the aircraft licensing in those days? If you wished to fly civvy side could you or was it same as today-having to go via CAA route etc?

cliffnemo
22nd Jun 2008, 11:07
Reminds me of dropping toilet rolls on a Japanese prisoner or war camp in Oklahoma. Quite effective when they unroll.

cliffnemo
22nd Jun 2008, 15:05
Hi X2,
Don't know much about inter-services relationships, other than when in the pub, amongst sailors and soldiers, we all sang together songs such as "When this blinking war is over, oh I happy I will be" together . Think that one ended with "and we will tell the Squadron to stuff his 'Spitfire *********"
Banter friendly rivalry , yes. Particularly with our American friends when we sang "We were flying Avro Lancasters at zero zero feet ,with no ammunition and a bloody big bomb" the last line being "flying flying fortresses at 30,000 ft with tons of ammunition and a teeny-weeny bomb"

However when I was at Battlestead Hill Norh of Burton on Trent we found they had black nights and white nights for the Americans. If they were allowed to go into town on the same night , there was trouble . After V.J day we ferried troops to and from Naples on Python leave, with a day off in Naples. We only had to be waiting to cross the road , with no thumbs up, and the first army 3 tonner or Jeep would stop , ask us where we wanted to go. They were the happiest group of men I have ever met. Understandable , as they had fought their way up to Naples, from N. Africa.

Don't know much about flying civvy aircraft. Think most of us where only too happy to be home., in a "Land fit for heroes to live in" as the politicians promised. After all I had been given £80, a trilby hat,an overcoat, and a demob suit. Plus a FREE railway warrant home. As far as I know we were only qualified to fly his Majesty's aircraft.

I did receive a few letters from the Air Ministry after demob, saying that if I had not settled in "civvy street" I could go back, and that i was still in the V.R. Don't remember ever receiving one saying I was no longer "in"

x213a
22nd Jun 2008, 18:33
Cheers Cliff,

What was £80 then in today's terms?

I guess the run ashore that followed was a good 'un!

cliffnemo
22nd Jun 2008, 20:07
Not as good as V.J night!!**!!

teeteringhead
23rd Jun 2008, 09:57
What was £80 then in today's terms?
..... depends how you want to calculate it!

The are 5 or 6 generally accepted calculations, which can factor in a sum's relationship to GDP, or average earnings or GDP per capita, but these would over-inflate (pun intended) the figure.

In terms of "how good a run ashore would it fund", it would be best to use either the RPI calculation or the GDP Deflator (Nominal GDP/Real GDP), which are not dissimilar.

RPI calculation would give: £2372.62

GDP Deflator calculation would give: £2487.72 both figures in 2006 GBPs...

So a good, useful answer would be:

About two-and-a-half grand!

Edited to add:

From other sources, a pint cost 1/- (5p) in 1945, so the £80 would have bought 1600 pints, so for "beer inflation" it would be well over £3k.

Ciggies (Churchman's to be precise) were 2/6d (12.5p) for 20. One is a non-smoker so cannot translate this.

cliffnemo
23rd Jun 2008, 12:06
My first job in "civvy street paid £7 per week.This would be above a tradesman's wage. I would describe it as lower management. An ex R.A.F friend who before entry into the R.A.F was employed by Priestman Excavators Ltd, was re-emloyed as a representative at the same wage. £80 would equate to eleven weeks wages . Which would be near or similar to your calcuations.

Out Of Trim
23rd Jun 2008, 13:38
Cliff

Thanks for this thread and defending our Country.

I like your writing style, and would love to hear all the details about your experiences. This is great stuff, and your ending One-liners make me chuckle too!

Can't wait to read more. :ok:

cliffnemo
23rd Jun 2008, 15:02
Thanks for your thanks, Mr Out of Trim. That's what keeps me going.
Cliff

cliffnemo
23rd Jun 2008, 16:11
Pic disappeared so trying to replace it.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img025.jpg

This is thea P.T 17 Boeing Stearman trainer which I hope to tell you about soon, on which we flew one hundred hours on our primary course.
It had a Lycoming radial engine, with inertia starter. 32' wingspan, production ended in 1945 after 10,000 had been built.
Although I have said cameras were verboten in the R.A.F during the war, rules were more relaxed in the U.S.A, so I took this picture with a five bob ( 25P) camera.
The instructor sat in the front cockpit and the cadet in the rear. A hood was pulled over the rear cockpit for blind flying , or instrument flying instruction. I can't remember what method the instructor used to communicate with the student. But if it was like the Tiger moth then it would be a simple . Speak into a funnel ? , long copper tube to the students earpieces and vice versa for the student. On the Tiger Moth it was known as a Gosport tube , and was primitive, but quite effective. The words tail dragger were not used at that time, could have been "three pointer" Usually as in three point landing.Will now consult my Canadian pilot's log book, and hope to describe some of my first lessons.soon.
------------------
We were , taught the rules we learned the rules and then we were tested on the rules , and tested again, ad infinitum, In the end a voice said sotto voce~ "Rules are made for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men"
---------------
Hope I have got the picture the correct size. Still learning.

airborne_artist
23rd Jun 2008, 17:47
Love the words, but the pics need to be bigger Cliff :ok:

exscribbler
23rd Jun 2008, 22:37
Cliff - I don't suppose you regarded yourselves as brave young men but that's what you were and you have our eternal gratitude for what you did.

Your story is a marvellous chance to look into the past through the eyes of a participant and you have the real story-teller's gift; keep it coming. :ok:

cliffnemo
24th Jun 2008, 10:14
Hi Exscribbler,
Many thanks for your encouraging contribution
BUT
Re your remark story-tellers gift , all us Yorkshire men are good at "shooting a line". But I would like to stress I am trying hard not to do that. I am doing this, because, what to me is only yesterday, seems for some unfathomable reason to interest quite a few other people.

As for "didn't regard you selves as brave young heroes" Don't think so. More like it can happen to someone else but not me. (Psychologists please explain). But would agree there were quite a lot of B.Y.Hs.

Also I must iterate, reiterate, even say again.My career has a slightly UNUSUAL ending with no D.F.C s or D.F.Ms.
Just in case you think this means I was "drummed out" no, I was discharged with V.G character reference. So please wait until the end (if I ever get there) for any accolades.
Just noticed I had not typed a caption to the pic of the bombed out houses (see above). Have edited it to read, t My home until 1941.

What did the erk say to the erk who did't have a number?
I've been in longer than you. I was in when D.R.Os were written on stone. ( D.R.Os ? Daily routine orders.)

Fareastdriver
25th Jun 2008, 12:59
For those of us who are awaiting the next instalment of Cliffnemo's story with bated breath, there is, if you haven't found it, yet another brilliant series on flying the Sunderland in Aviation History and Nostalgia.

cliffnemo
25th Jun 2008, 16:07
On our arrival at the Darr school. We were taken into our billets and shown round. Perfect,quite new, white painted , wooden single story building. Gas central heating Hot showers available night and day. Double bunks ( one above the other you horrible little man). Each of the many windows with a wire screen fed with water to stop the dust blown up by the aircraft props. It was summer, 103f with total blue sky and no wind, which stayed constant for a month or two.

After that we were taken in to the mess. We were very impressed stainless steel fittings every where. A fantastic choice of food, and such things as apple pie and ice cream , bacon and eggs, cereals and SUGAR. and BUTTER

One thing we couldn't fathom, was the proliferation of signs saying KEEP OF OFF THE GRASS. While the university air squadron types discussed at great length whether the use the word OFF, was grammatically correct, another cadet who had noticed there were no tarmac runways , said I wonder how they expect us to get those aeroplanes airborne

We had a shock on our first evening, we thought we would go down to the local pub. However we found out
we were only allowed out from 5 P.M to10 P.M on a Wednesday. and midday Saturday to 10 P.M Sunday all day 'til 10 P.,M. ,and there were NO PUBS. Nose to the grind stone the rest of the time.

The first thing we did on arrival at a new camp, was always to find an oppo (friend)_ or two. I chummed up with a lad called Bill ****,from Cardiff, and an Americn from Atkins. Iowa . called Hardy Albrecht (d). (second generation German), but a a loyal American, proud of his country.We remained firm friends all the time we were at Ponca City.

The next day, we were taken down to the control tower and introduced to every one and then allocated to an instructor. My instructor,was a Mr Dux who turned out to be a very experienced patient, cool pilot, but most of all he could teach. He explained he would be teaching us for three months , primary training, which would be one hundred flying hours, and most of it would be over the 101 ranch. I asked him why 101, and he replied that's the size in acres. I was later to find out it was 101,000 acres. He explained that all the roads ran North South , East , or West. That as the railway ran North and South though Ponca , initially, as well as map reading. we would be able to find our way. Also that each large water tank had the name of the town printed on it. Following the railway was frowned on by the R.A.F , and was called flying by Bradshaw. Bradshaw being the official British railway time table at that time.

The next day was 4/8/1943 (from my log book) we were instructed , on preflight checks including , see that there are no loose objects in the cockpit, peto head cover removed check for full and free movement of all controls, chocks under wheels, sufficient gas for the journey etc etc. Then came "swinging the prop, throttle open , mixture fully rich, switches off , suck in. followed by throttle closed switches on .Contact.
I assure you pre flight checks became more complex as time went on. Hope, in the end, you will realize it became a little more than "wings on take off".

next came taxying, it was explained to us that as we couldn't see in front for the engine, we had to zig zag.
to obtain a clear view. A thing you didn't need to do in a Lanc:. If you did you would be off the perry track and possibly, bogged down.

After this my log book shows . Taxying ,climbing. straight and level and descending.
I have endeavored to print a pic of Hardy and me, in front of the control tower wearing the American equivalent of the R.A.F Irvin flying jacket.
Usihg 600X800 format as recommended by our moderator, fingers crossed.
Next lesson on the link trainer, it's time I went to the N.A.F.F.I, if only I can find a penny
Brains baffles Bull excreta . Or was it the other way round? http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/HARDY.jpgfile:///C:/Users/CFL/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

cliffnemo
26th Jun 2008, 10:07
Any of you ex B.F.T.S "bods" out there remember if the P.T17 was started by swinging the prop, or did it have the wind up inertia starter. Was it fitted with a radio?

240 Gardner
26th Jun 2008, 11:43
Thank you very much, Cliff, for your reminscences - I do enjoy your writing style, and it all strikes a particular chord for me as my father learned to fly courtesy of the US Navy at Pensacola, and then went on to fly Sunderlands between 1943 and 1946.

Sadly, he is no longer with us, although I do have his log book at home and I often wonder what stories lie behind some of the entries. One in particular is, I think, particularly poignant: an entry for 1 May 1945 showing "ASR 95/H - unsuccessful" - I presume this indicates that the crew of 95/H were lost, just a week before VE Day.

One of his fellow pilots from 95 Sqn (in fact, also his best man) still lives not far from you, on the Wirral.

Thanks again - looking forward to some more!

cliffnemo
26th Jun 2008, 15:01
Hi. 240 GARDNER
Yes Pensacola was a much sort after posting. Any one graduating there received the R.A.F wings and the American wings. They were allowed to wear the American wings on the right chest. This did not apply to B.F.T.S s

The Sunderlands not only had an Elsan chemical closet, but a galley as well. Other aircraft had the Elsan also, and it was not unknown for some inconsiderate pilot ( more likely the flight engineer had taken over) Pilots don't do that sort of thing . The crew member would be given sufficient time to sit down, then put the aircraft in a dive , and then pull up sharply. I did hear a story of one chap empty theirs over Germany (subject normal)

Regards my style of writing. Must be because when I started this I said to myself "to hell with , parsing. punctuation, split infinitives, past tense, present tense. Just get it down before it's to late"

ASR9S5H .Seems as if this was an air sea rescue and they failed to pick up airmen in the drink. It reminds me of an article in the 6 B,F.T.S magazine, which I still receive. An ex B.F.T.S pilot flew out in a Walrus, a twin engined flying boat (I can't spell amphibian) to rescue a downed crew far out in the North sea. It was very rough, but he decided to touch down. He then picked up the crew, but then with the extra weight and the high waves, couldn't get airborne. He decided to "taxy" back to blighty. He was half way home when an air sea rescue launch, met him and towed him back (it's true) . Pilots don't lie.

Old Hairy
26th Jun 2008, 18:18
Cliffnemo, Sir I am enjoying your stories immensely.Im the chap writing about the Sunderland and I hate to correct you,but....we had a "Shanks' china flushing toilet,with a sea water header tank.One of the fittings that impressed our American friends no end!!! Keep up the good work.

cliffnemo
26th Jun 2008, 19:10
Sorry Old Hairy. But a sunderland flight engineer who didn't know his shanks from his elsan called it that . Maybe you had a posh sunderland. But it was an Elsan that was fitted in Lancs. I know I spent most of my time there.

Pontius Navigator
26th Jun 2008, 20:41
This is a real page turner.

Keep 'em coming.

smuff2000
27th Jun 2008, 09:05
Cliff

This is a fantastic story, I know from my father that there is a distinct reticence by many who served during the 2nd World War to tell their stories on the basis that "they didn't do much" but you did, you made it possible for us all to live in a free society, so you have my heartfelt thanks.

cliffnemo
27th Jun 2008, 10:39
As there may be people reading this link, who would like to know more a bout 6 B.F.T.S Ponca city There is a book available explaining things better than I can and some smashing pictures , called The R.A.F in Oklahoma I emailed one of our friends in Ponca city for permission to

publish details. Her reply below is self explanatory.
Some of you might want to Google - The R.A.F in Ponca City -, and for a laugh enlarge the picture of the Link trainer, that I mentioned earlier.



--------------------------------------------------------

Hi Cliff,
Yes, of course I would like you to mention the book. If possible, can you mention my website since it tells all about the book? It is reached at www.pkdenson.com (http://www.pkdenson.com/). I have registered just now on pprune but could not find your blog since they have not sent me a code number yet. I will check when I get it.


I have heard many wonderful things from the people who were involved in Oklahoma's training of RAF pilots in WWII, and almost on a daily basis. For example, I got an e-mail today from the daughter of a gentleman in the first course at Ponca City. Over half that course died but this man is still alive! How exciting to hear from them. My book sales have done reasonably well over the past year and a half but I still have about 300 to sell and am very adept at getting them in the mail to people in the UK so your help would be wonderful.

I look forward to hearing from you again.

cliffnemo
27th Jun 2008, 16:19
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img026-1.jpg

cliffnemo
27th Jun 2008, 16:24
SEE ABOVE
Just practising printing from my log book . Also , finding out if print size can be increased when viewing in this link

Showing the flying exercises to come.

kookabat
29th Jun 2008, 01:08
Along with Wiley above, I've just finished reading Harry M's scribblings on his wartime training in Canada.

Thank you very much Harry! :D

And to Cliff and Old Hairy as well - there's nothing like history told by those who were there. These have (collectively) been some fantastic threads - keep it up!

Hempy
29th Jun 2008, 03:46
best thread on Pprune - probably ever.

MTOW
29th Jun 2008, 04:14
Harry, can we all see your story here? If it's a bit long, give it to us in chapters.

cliffnemo
29th Jun 2008, 08:32
Welcome aboard Hairy.
CLIFFNEMO.

Old Hairy
29th Jun 2008, 10:30
Thanks Cliff.
Get cracking lad,can't wait to read the rest of your exploits.
All the Best
Old Hairy

Fareastdriver
29th Jun 2008, 15:43
My father was trained at Pensacola in 1943. He was an ex brat instument technician who wasn't accepted for pilot training when WWII broke out as he was married with children. This was relaxed in 1942 so he was older than the rest being thirty years old. The only comment from my mother was that before he went to the States he was two left feet on the dance floor but when he came back he could see off Fred Astaire.

cliffnemo
29th Jun 2008, 17:12
For the uninitiated . Trenchard's brats were the elite. Trenchard toured the country's technical colleges, pre war to give the R.A.F the best technicians possible. The competent ones were then given an apprenticeship second to none. In those days an aircraft apprentice fitter was fully trained at Halton. After training he could carry out any repairs to airframes, engines even recover wings and fuselage and dope the calico? to tighten it. They became the sergeants and chiefys when the war started. At that point the trades were separated, into engines , airframes ,,etc, so that they could be trained quickly.

Just plucking up courage to start my next contribution
Thought - Didn't mention the " Welcome to Darr school" given by the C.O. We had heard it all before but it went like this. I'm a strict disciplinarian, but you play ball with me, and I will play ball with you. It was referred to by the ranks as "you play ball with me , and I'll ram the bat up your b*tt*m, or words to that effect.

Just sharpening my pencil, to be ready for desription o my first trip in a Stearman.

harrym
29th Jun 2008, 17:32
Hello MTOW & others, I really think my writings are too verbose to be posted here, however would be delighted to e-mail them to you (and/or any other interested party); could you advise me of your address via the private message facility?

harrym

cliffnemo
29th Jun 2008, 18:35
Harrym.

Certainly, tomorrow .

Then will discuss, with you, the various options.

Brian Abraham
30th Jun 2008, 06:39
There is a wonderful story at http://www.oldframlinghamian.com/images/articles/GROUPCAPTAINPERCYPICKARDDSODFCG26-32.pdf of how one Czech earned his RAF Brevet.

Pick was posted as squadron commander of 311 Czech squadron (Wellingtons) at East Wretham. 311 Squadron were not-fully operational, but as part of the ‘running-up’ process crews were sent on missions over Germany. Pickard became known as a hard task-master amongst the crews, often accompanying pilots on raids on Germany. A pilot accidentally ejecting his window shortly after take-off with Pickard as co-pilot, attempted to turn back for base, only to have ‘Pick’ point him in the direction of Berlin. Several hours later a hypothermic, but infinitely wiser Czech pilot found his way back to England. Language problems with the Czechs did not help matters either. Pickard decided to concentrate on those pilots with the most hours. An interpreter told him of one Czech named Joe with 2000 hours experience; Pickard turned his attention to him. After several trips the man was still strangely inept for a man with 2000 flying hours under his belt. Pickard probably felt a little silly when he finally learned that the individual was actually a navigator, with no piloting experience at all. Pick was not deterred, and trained him as a pilot anyway. Ironically, Joe married Pickard’s sister Hilary.

shack
30th Jun 2008, 12:06
For the uninitiated . Trenchard's brats were the elite

Point of order your honour. Not "were" but are, even if we are a bit older now days.:)

Wwyvern
30th Jun 2008, 12:58
An old friend of mine, himself a brat who had made the transition to GD/P, often reminded me that "You can always tell a brat, but you can't tell him much".

There's an interesting account of how "The First Fiji Contingent to the RAF" got into WWII in the latest edition of "Intercom", the magazine of the Aircrew Association. It took them 18 months to get into the War, including boat and train travel from Fiji, through NZ, to Australia, to South Africa to EFTS at Salisbury (Harare), with wings at the end of it. After arriving in Liverpool, they became trained aircrew and were posted on to the war effort.

One of the group, DPF McCaig, wrote "From Fiji to the Balkan Skies".

cliffnemo
30th Jun 2008, 15:14
F.A.O SHACK
---------------------------------
Point of order your honour. Not "were" but are, even if we are a bit older now days.:)
---------------------------------------------------------------

mea culpa or summat, and I apologise for killing off a fine bunch of engineers.
Did you know that an ex Halton Brat, with only tin snips , schobert rivet guns , and was it alclad ? plus original Hallifax bomber blue prints, built a complete nose section from scratch. The work comprised, pilot, flight engineer navigator bomb aimers position . All radios, instruments hydraulics. electrics. and tail plane. Yes Hairy M , even an elsan chemical closet. It is now complete in the Yorkshire air museum, Elvington.
It had been used as a chicken coop in Scotland, and arrived at Elivington with no wings tailplane or engines
That brat still is, rather than was. I was speaking to him yesterday.He eventually qualilfied as a pilot (Rhodesian trained) Think there maybe a few videos left,of the complete build. could find out. It is called Halifax project.

However if you read a previous blog of mine you will see I said "to hell with past tense .present tense " etc get it down while there is still time.
Sorry, folks if I got carried away, but they certainly were/are/is a fine bunch of blokes and deserve complements, for we would never have got any where without them.
Cliff.

Blacksheep
30th Jun 2008, 18:01
"You can always tell a brat, but you can't tell him much".Absolute nonsense. You can't tell us anything! ;)

Great yarn Cliff. Without chaps like you tell how it was, we'd lose a valuable piece of our history.

exscribbler
30th Jun 2008, 20:48
This gorgeous beauty, Cliff?

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm250/exscribbler/HP57HalifaxIILV907NP-F8.jpg?t=1214858558

brickhistory
30th Jun 2008, 21:47
Sirs,

Many thanks for your service. And for telling your stories.

As has been related here, many from that generation are exceedingly reluctant to tell their tales. And far too many of those stories have disappeared forever with the passing of the storytellers.

Having interviewed numerous WWII veterans, British, Canadian, Australian, and American, most had never really talked about their experiences and their families were amazed what quiet, unassuming Dad or even white-haired Granddad had done in his younger days, both on and off duty.

As to 'no DFCs' or 'DFMs,' one gent I spoke with was an RCAF pilot who volunteered in 1941, but didn't finish OTU in Mosquitos until May 1, 1945 due to delays in training, waiting for transport, etc, etc.

So, please, sir, may we have some more?!

shack
1st Jul 2008, 07:37
Sorry Cliff I was not trying to hi-jack your magnificent Thread.

Most of my entry from Halton finished up flying but I do not think any of us who are still alive (we are now 76-78 year old farts) could match your stories.

More please!!:D

cliffnemo
1st Jul 2008, 08:51
That's it. Friday the 13th. (it's name)

A pint of draft bass for any one who can say which one of those "props" is made of plastic.

There was nothing forward of the wings when the Halton brat started work.

Fareastdriver
1st Jul 2008, 12:14
No 1. It hasn't got a makers label on.

The first time I ever flew was in a Halifax. 1948, when my father was a pilot on 202 Met Sqn at Aldergrove.

Wiley
1st Jul 2008, 13:49
harrym believes his reminisces are too long for this site. I don't agree, but that's for Harry to decide.

I can only recommend that everyone follow his advice by asking him to email them.

exscribbler
1st Jul 2008, 13:49
Where are you taking him, Cliff? The White Star in Rainford Gardens? :ok:

cliffnemo
1st Jul 2008, 14:20
Today I should be making a top for the bird table. However I am going to visit Mr Dux on the flight line, before I "get put on a fizzer" for being absent.

I am sure the day was fine, very hot, as it did remain for the first few months, with visibility forever.

Mr Dux arrived and introduced himself to about 4 or 5 of us, and then we proceeded to our PT 17. We looked at this massive biplane "don't laugh you jumbojet drivers" very few of us, although our average age would be about twenty, had ever done sixty miles an hour on a motorbike. He then went through . preflight checks, demonstrated the movement of the ailerons, rudder. and elevator. The location of the throttle, mixture control, joystick. rudder pedals, and instruments. The instruments were pretty basic , a compass, altimeter, air speed indicator, plus a turn and bank indicator. The turn and bank indicator consisted of a vertical needle which swung either left or right , the amount depending on the rate of turn, underneath which, was a glass tube, similar to a spirit level, but it was curved \_/ with a ball in the bottom. If the ball remained at the bottom of the curve it indicated the aircraft was flying level. In a turn, it indicated if the aircraft was side slipping. So when blind flying, or "under the hood" the cadet set the throttle, and airspeed. Any increase in speed indicated the aircraft was descending, and a decrease, climbing. Hence the expression from the instructor, when things went wrong . needle -ball -airspeed, needle=-ball- airspeed NEEDLE-BALL-AIRSPEED. Gyro compasses and artificial horizons were used at that time, but we were told that it was absolutely imperative that we should be able to blind fly, using only these instruments, in case every other aid had failed.

After our introduction to the aircraft, we had our first flight. First of all we had to go to stores to collect a parachute. I was asked what number I wanted, feeling
capricious I asked for number thirteen. I was surprised it was virtually new and unused. After that I always asked for number 13 , whenever I had the choice.

From my log book -- Pilot Mr Dux, pupil cliffnemo, Taxying, straight and level, climbing, descending, 45 minutes. A nice gentle introduction, and beautiful views over the 101 ranch. I was also surprised to see many " "nodding donkeys" These were machines which pumped up oil, night and day. The area was very prosperous, at that time because of the oil fields, and was the home of the Continental Oil Co (CONOCO). This company was the major employer in the area.

The railway was pointed out with its large water tank with Ponca City written in large bold letters. The wide streets , running .N.S.E or W. , the Arkansas river , and some small towns such as Tonkawa. Guthrie. Enid. This was to be useful when we eventually solo'd.
After this , according to my log book I went to the Link trainer for familiarization, with a Mr Reid. The Link trainer (GOOGLE R.A.F. in Oklahoma for a pic ) was of wooden construction ,enclosed, in the rough shape of an aeroplane with the standard controls and instruments, and responded to the joystick by tilting in the required direction. I ended the day feeling quite confident and elated, and that Mr Dux and I would get on well together. We were told that in the future, we would spend half a day on the flight line and half a day in the classrooms, studying , meteorology aerodynamics, navigation, gunnery , bombing etc, until we started night flying.
--------------------------
Do you really love me , or is it your first field dressing?
(If you don't understand it, I will tell you when you're 21

cliffnemo
1st Jul 2008, 14:24
Burton On Trent,The Barley Mow,

Don't suppose the brewery is offering part time evening work to pilots from Battlestead Hill , as it was when I was there,

Molemot
2nd Jul 2008, 18:51
Just to get this enthralling reminiscence back on page 1...they were still using Link Trainers at Linton-on-Ouse in 1972!

Tyres O'Flaherty
2nd Jul 2008, 23:38
There's a good reason for that I reckon molemot

It's such a simple and cheap way of giving a great sense of aircraft handling/orientation


Sometimes simple is the best

Wiley
3rd Jul 2008, 04:29
The Link Trainer part of our course, some 25 years after Cliff, consisted mainly of waiting until the so-called instructor (usually another course mate) either fell asleep or got too engrossed in his comic book to notice, and then attempting to 'walk' the 'crab' off the edge of the table, which could be a spectcularly noisy affair.

I can still hear the wheeze of the pneumatics as the beast manoeuvred and recall that first wobble 'n' wheeze as the locks were released.

Ansett was still using them for DME homing training etc into the 80's.

Molemot
3rd Jul 2008, 11:57
Used to do ILS approached in the Link with my hands behind my head, by leaning...!

bravolima80
4th Jul 2008, 01:21
I trained at 1 BFTS, Terrell, Texas from October 1943 to June 44. Stearman for 70 hours. We couldnt speak to our instructor. He would talk to us, then look in the mirror and we would nod that we understood. Then the AT6 or Harvard for 130 hours. We had 20% American cadets on our courses. They took the RAF Wings exam and were presented with RAF and also US Army Wings. Unfortunately when the Army lost most of their Glider Pilots at Arnhem, those of us in the pool at Harrogate, (waiting for Spitfires or Mustangs!!) were asked to volunteer to be seconded to the Glider Pilot Regiment. Some did, so we were read the Riot Act and told that if we didn't volunteer we would never fly again. So we did. We joined the Glider Pilot Regiment, were taught to fly the Hotspur and Horsa or Hamilcar and became the RAF Element, Glider Pilot Regiment. The Glider Pilots, veterans of Sicily, D-Day, and Arnhem, taught us to be infantrymen and to be able to be able to help the troops we took into battle. A lot of us took part in the Rhine Crossing and we lost a lot of our mates. I was on emberkation leave for the Far East when THE BOMB was dropped.
After demob I rejoined and ended up in Coastal Command and I am sure that my GPR training helped me get my commission.

cliffnemo
4th Jul 2008, 14:40
Hi Bravolima.
Very pleased to receive your contribution.
Why don't you join me and take some of the blame ( only joking .The blame I mean ) Think you must have reached Harrogate after me , they offered me a commission as a pilot in the fleet air arm, which I refused, but more about Harrogate later if this blog runs that long. My oppo at R,A,F Wunstorf had been a glider pilot on the Arnhem trip and came back on a stretcher. he got a wound stripe though.

Thanks for the info on coms in a PT17, shows us Limeys were more advanced than the Americans, with our Gosport tube.

Wonder if any one is interested in the fact that there was an air provost branch bloke at Harrogate who's only job was to log low flying aircraft As soon as any one got away from Harrogate their sole object was to dive bomb the Majestic with toilet rolls and what are now known as condoms (partially inflated) Rumor had it thaat a Spit knocked off a chimney pot.

Sorry folks for the diversion, but am waiting for some Ponca excersise books I gave to my Grandson. with some memorabilia. That's if he hasn't swapped them for an I-pod.

Atten ------shun. I want three volunteers , you, you, and you.

cliffnemo
5th Jul 2008, 10:02
I will have to be careful in the future. Just found this on my daughters face book page.

"It's been a bit of an eye opener for me as I've heard the sanitized versions of his stories over the years but I think he's forgetting that Bill and I are reading these threads!!!! Be warned Dad."


Remember -Even the walls have ears.-
- Be like dad , keep mum. (Official war time advice)

Babyfactory
5th Jul 2008, 10:20
Please don't feel inhibited by the wains listening. This thread has made me feel the way I did when I was young and my Uncle would try to impress on my Dad what it was like when the R.A.F. had a very important job to do. His stories always got better the more he forgot that the youngsters were listening too ...

cliffnemo
6th Jul 2008, 15:16
I have to apologize to my grandson, for suggesting he might have swapped my R.A.F exercise books for an i-pod.
He has just brought them back. I thought I would reproduce the first two pages and explain how we we attended lectures during the day, entered the the days work in our books, in the billets in the evening. After this we would test each other to ensure we had memorized it correctly.
Page one and two are very elementary.but still required a lot of memorizing It became more difficult as we went along, and this particular book consisted of 160 pages , all hand written.

From my notes I am reminded that the Tiger Moth (DH 82 A) had to have the prop swung by hand , but on the PT 17 we had to put a handle in the side of the engine cowling turn it until we heard a loud whine. This meant a flywheel was spinning fast we then we pulled out a clutch lever, this rotated the engine which usually started up straight away. This was called an inertia starter.

The rest of the book covers all the items I have previously mentioned, and I can now refer to it as I ramble on. There are pages on Visual signals used by airfield controllers. Pyrotechnics, Entering the beam on a Q.D.M , . Theory of bombing plus, plus, ad infinitum. All to be memorized for future exams.
Will describe our flying exercises next.
SEMPER IN EXCRETA.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img027.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img032.jpg

exscribbler
6th Jul 2008, 22:24
Yet more fascinating stuff, Cliff. BTW, I used to have neat handwriting like that but not any more. Semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat...

Flash2001
6th Jul 2008, 23:32
There was at least one other way, at least in the RCAF. My uncle entered with a direct commission in the late 30s. He applied for pilot training but was refused as he had a minor visual defect. He rose to SqL in the supply branch. Later the powers that be lowered the bar and he qualified but was refused on the ground that he was too valuable in the supply branch. He then took 2 weeks leave and returned with a PPL. He was then accepted for training but had to accept a reduction in rank to PPO (Provisional Pilot Officer). He later flew a tour in 6 Group and came back to Canada with a DSO, Croix de Guerre, with Palm etc.etc. He retired as a WingCo.

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!

cliffnemo
7th Jul 2008, 10:05
To Exscrbbler.
Even I am amazed at the "neat handwriting " My hand writing was terrible before the war , and after In fact " The moving finger having writ moved on, nor all thy piety or wit could decipher half a word". In fact even I could not decipher my own writing sometimes . On reflection. I think it does show both you and me, how seriously we dealt with the whole matter. After all , I bought the loose leaf book, out of my four shillings and sixpence per day. I also see I have stuck calico rings both sides of each page. Small points, but good indicators of our mood at that time.

Semper in excreta (i) was mainly used by the intelligentsia , us lesser mortals used the expression "up the creek without a paddle"

To Flash 2001.
Nice to hear from Canada.
A terrific achievement .
Ground crew often hit this glass ceiling, when they applied for aircrew training, on the grounds they could not be replaced. Particularly in the case of Halton Brats, although a lot of them did become aircrew after being refused numerous times. The reply was we can always replace aircrew but not aircraft apprentices.

Let go the painter Jack, I'm in the dinghy.

exscribbler
7th Jul 2008, 11:33
Always chuck in some Latin; bullsh*t baffles brains, I always find... :ok:

***** taurorum animas conturbit. :eek:

cliffnemo
8th Jul 2008, 16:44
Now I have my log book and classroom notes to hand my memory is refreshed to some degree. I was evidently instructed by Mr Dux on familiarization , taxying ,medium turns, climbing and gliding, straight and level,stalling, and over shoot procedure. This was all carried out over the 101 ranch. To us youngsters it was , a perfect life, spoiled only that we knew we could be eliminated (washed out) at any time, and it really did bother us all the time we were there.
Also three hours instrument flying on the link trainer, under the hood as we called it
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img033.gif

Each day we spent a half day in the classrooms. My notes show we were taught starting procedures for the P.T 17, and stopping, the engine. How to prolong engine life, and after instruction on the lubrication system we had to draw a diagram of the complete system. We also learned and memorized all the lamp signals for take off and landing, as there were no radios in the P.T17s. For instance, the aircraft letter was flashed in green to indicate permission to land, intermittent red meant total refusal to land and many more , such as signals by night plus torch signals by ground staff.

The evenings were spent swotting up our notes ,with an occasional swim in the camp pool to cool off.

cliffnemo
8th Jul 2008, 18:52
Sorry Mr Moderator for size of pic . Will watch it in future.

PPRuNe Pop
9th Jul 2008, 05:16
No problem! It fits the page perfectly.

Carry on sir! :ok:

Mike Read
9th Jul 2008, 08:05
I remember my instructor telling me, in 1950 when he was quite old (about 30 perhaps) to "tickle Mary Pickford for forty glorious hours". Trim set for take off, throttle friction nut tight, mixture rich, pitch fully fine, fuel sufficient, gills set, gyros errect and synchronised, hood (open in Harvard), harness tight, hydrulics OK. With small alterations it fits most aircraft. But who/what is Mary Pickford?

airborne_artist
9th Jul 2008, 08:17
Mary Pickford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Pickford)

"Known as "America's Sweetheart," "Little Mary" and "The girl with the curls," she was one of the first Canadian pioneers in early Hollywood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_pioneers_in_early_Hollywood) and one of film's greatest pioneers. Her influence in the development of film acting was enormous. Because her international fame was triggered by moving images, she is a watershed figure in the history of modern celebrity."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Mary_Pickford_portrait_2.jpg/250px-Mary_Pickford_portrait_2.jpg

cliffnemo
9th Jul 2008, 16:32
Dinghy, dinghy, prepare for ditching, fifty fifty, brace , brace.
Sorry this does not seem to have any thing to do with Ponca it was hundreds of miles from the sea. But when I reread my contributions, my mind begins to wander (as usual . Mrs Cliffnemo)
Looking at the picture of the swimming pool, I thought everyone of those cadets could swim. That was because at I.T.W , although most could swim, we were told every one would have to be able to swim and be capable of life saving by the end of the course, or else. Weekly visits to Torquay baths became the norm.

This took me back to dinghy practice in Torquay harbour, and how many things I had left out of this blog. So here goes.

Dinghy practice took place in the harbour, regardless of weather. We dressed in Sidcot flying suits, flying boots, helmet, goggles, gloves and Mae West life jacket.
An inflated nine man survival raft was then thrown in and turned upside down. We were then instructed to jump in (high tide). Any one who hesitated was "assisted by our flight sergeant Then we were told how to turn it the right way up. One cadet was instructed to act as if he was unconscious, not very difficult for any of us. He just floated around in his Mae West. One cadet climbed in to pull and another remained outside to push the unconscious one up into the dinghy. We were then instructed in the use of all the equipment in the dinghy< flares, paddles . drogue, etc.

The R.A.F nine man survival dinghy was a marvelous and efficient piece of equipment. When it was inflated by compressed air bottle, not only were the two big rubber rings inflated but the floor, and top also., leaving only the doors to be inflated by mouth.

We were told that with the doors closed even in freezing temperatures , body heat would warm the interior.(soaking wet we were not convinced.)

Was this the dinghy known as the Lindhome dinghy,? Any one know.?

I don't have a wartime photograph of a dinghy, but below should appear a nine man R.A.F surplus dinghy I bought just after the war. I bought a small fishing boat in Maryport, had to sail it down to Liverpool, and was not too happy about about it's seaworthiness , so inflated it and lashed it on deck.

Do right and fear no man. Don't write and fear no woman. ( I must be mad)




http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img034-1.jpg

cliffnemo
11th Jul 2008, 08:04
Happy Ninetieth Birthday To The R.a.f.
Wishing You All A Safe Fly Past, And Good Health To Her Majesty.
Cliff

Padhist
11th Jul 2008, 11:53
Hello CLIFFNEMO
I am the chap that contacted you Not George but Paddy. I did go the same route as you but ended up in Miami Oklahoma not Florida. Our stories are of course similar except that I transferred into the Fleet Air Arm when the war in Europe ended and rejoined the RAF after the war ended completely
I will post some of my memories if they are of interest... To look up my Swan Song in the RAF GO Google...Flt.Lt C Grogan. Meantime

The perils of night flying

At this time I was an instructor giving primary flying instruction to mainly Fleet Air Arm students at RAF Syerston in Nottinghamshire.
Although not part of the conspiracy myself, I learned later just what happened! The wife of one of the instructors had expressed a desire to see the airfield and the married quarter site, from an aircraft, by night. The plan was to take advantage of the fact, that during night flying circuit and landing tuition, it was quite common for an instructor to halt the aircraft at the end of one particular runway whilst he or his student nipped out to spend a penny against a nearby wartime shelter.
The plan was that the wife would wait by this shelter, suitable dressed in flying gear including helmet and her husband, having colluded with his student, would send him out to clear the way for the wife to take his place. Then, having carried out one circuit, the exchange was to be reversed and success achieved?????
Would that all plans were successful.
What happened in fact was, another instructor carried out the act allowing his student to go spend a penny and the student having arrived at the shelter was surprised to find another ‘student’ waiting! He went straight into the palaver of searching through layers of flying clothing for a cold willy whilst remarking on the chill of the night in the vernacular of the crew room... Needless to say the wife remained silent.
She did however get to see the sights!

cliffnemo
11th Jul 2008, 15:09
I have just found a site showing how long it took to qualify for wings starting training in 1940. I appears one Archie started at I.T.W. in 1940, and was operational within fourteen months on Whitleys. If you would like to know how the time taken for me to qualify compares with earlier training methods then you could log on to.
Archie - A Pilot in RAF Bomber Command - Pilot Training (http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/archie_bombercommand/pilottraining.html)
then click on training.
Or you could try googling - Archie a pilot in the R.A.F.
I believe training time was even shorter in 1939, does any one know? Think there will be very FEW around now.

cliffnemo
11th Jul 2008, 19:24
Sorry Paddy, for mistaking you for George. Just put it down to PRE senile dementia. Can't remember why i have gone into the bathroom sometimes.

cliffnemo
12th Jul 2008, 15:54
Having been familiarized with the aircraft we then progressed to do circuits and bumps, as we called them, but our instructors referred to them as landings and arrivals This to me was the most difficult of all the exercises to perfect, and even more difficult at night.
At night we only had a "Christmas tree" and goose neck flares to land by , and although the A.T 6s were fitted with landing lights we were not allowed to use them.
The Christmas tree consisted of a box emitting a red , green, and yellow beam. If you could see the yellow beam you were too high. the green beam just right and the red beam Our father which art ****.

The goose necks were positioned about fifty feet apart ( alright then fifteen meters, ) They appeared further apart when we were higher up and almost in line when on the ground, This was the only method we could use to judge our height.

The approach to the airfield , and the circuit were demonstrated by Mr Dux, and also explained in the classroom a diagram of this hopefully will appear below.
One of the problems of following the instructions was that when we reached the cross wind leg we had to judge at what point we throttled back, so that we could glide to the touch down point just over the boundary of the field. However , after a few attempts and overshoots this was soon mastered. The next problem was bringing the aircraft down to within a few feet of the ground before pulling the stick back and "stalling out" again soon mastered, but only after a few arrivals.

A point of interest. Although most circuits both in the U.K and U.S.A ran anticlockwise, some of the circuits in the U.K ran clockwise when two airfields were close together. In Lincolnshire, (Lancasters) and Yorkshire (Halifaxes) some were very close together.

Take off was "a piece of cake". Just open the throttle, hold the stick back and build up speed, ease forward until the tail came up, , and then ease the stick back. Night or day, no problem.

More Latin.
Flight mechs motto. Ubendum we mendum.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/poncacircuit.gif

cliffnemo
14th Jul 2008, 15:29
Sorry for more "duff gen" but the pic above should be entitled Checking wind. Below is a pic of the airfield circuit.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/LANCCrew-1.gif
Another pic to show I didn't spend all the war in training. Cliffnemo on right, but photo for some reason is a mirror view. We should all be on the Port side. Note flying boots, brown suede sheepies had been withdrawn, and black escape boots issued. These had a knife inside for cutting off the tops , leaving just black boots. The original brown suede boots soon pushed out the back of the boot and became awkward to walk in. Will continue with our training antics next to include spins and stalling training.
MNEMONIC Port is red, but never left on the table. We always used port and starboard then . Wonder if it is now left and right.?

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/LANCCrew.gif

cliffnemo
15th Jul 2008, 18:10
By the end of the first week I had been instructed on the previously mentioned exercises plus, overshoot procedure, instruments, stalling ,and spinning. I had previously been instructed on spins at Cambridge, and as I have said my instructor had been a WW 1 R.F.C pilot, who told me at the time no one knew how to correct a spin and the only thing they could do if they got in to a spin ,was pray. As he taught me how to develop a spin and recover I was quite at ease when repeating the exercise at Ponca . To cause a spin we just throttled back, pulled back the stick, and rammed on full rudder. to recover , stick full forward, and apply opposite rudder.

While we were on the primary course, two advanced students took off in an A.T 6 on a night flying exercise, and didn't return. At first light we searched for them and found the crashed A.T 6 about 3 miles from the end of the runway,both pupils dead. It was later found that the fuel change over control was half way between tank 1 and tank 2. The preflight drill was to start up on tank 1, test mags, and full revs. Then taxy out on tank 2 as a test, then switch back to 1 for take off. Obviously they had taken off with just enough fuel in the carburettor to get airborne, when the engine cut out. We were all very careful when performing pre flight checks after that.The cadets were buried in Ponca City and the graves are still carefully maintained.
By the end of the first week I had had about eight hours flying tuition, and four "under the hood" on the Link trainer.



We were all issued with a Hussif, does any one know if it is still standard issue?

exscribbler
15th Jul 2008, 23:49
As far as I know, hussifs are not now issued. When #2 son entered BRNC in 1999, Mrs Ex made him one up. It was obvious he regarded it as a bit of an embarrassment, tantamount to her writing to him twice a week to remind him to wear at least one vest while at sea - until he needed to sew on a shirt button - thanks, Mum, can you do another one as everyone's borrowing it... :ok:

What happened to yours, Cliff?

Wiley
16th Jul 2008, 09:11
Found mine buried deep in a drawer only a month or so ago. Needles a bit rusty where gthey go through the cotton, but everything still there. I think it would have to be the only piece of original issue kit I still have in my possession, maybe because it has been so handy on more than one occasion.

airborne_artist
16th Jul 2008, 09:28
When #2 son entered BRNC in 1999, Mrs Ex made him one up.

As did mine when I went in 78! Still have it.

exscribbler
16th Jul 2008, 14:14
Wonderful things, mothers. I wish I still had mine.

cliffnemo
16th Jul 2008, 15:03
And I thought no one would know what a hussif was.
For the people who do not know, it was a cloth roll that contained needles , cotton , darning wool , buttons, etc. Officially known as Housewife, Airmen F.T U.OF. As we were issued with only two pairs of socks if nothing else we became efficient at darning.
To EXSCRBBLER. I would imagine I had to hand my hussif in , with my Smith and Wesson .38. morphine ampoule etc, at R.A.F Warton on demob.
BUTTON STICKS.? DURAGLIT ?
Get yer knees brown.

exscribbler
16th Jul 2008, 21:37
I was once carefully instructed in the use of the button stick by a mate from the RAF Section of our school CCF; I recall feeling so pleased that my sailor suit had no shiny bits needing regular polishing.

Duraglit? Oh yes, I remember that but it wasn't the liquid but the later impregnated wadding - I used it on my car bumpers.

You got that brevet yet, Cliff?

Blacksheep
17th Jul 2008, 07:16
Button sticks were no use if you were on your last Jankers inspection. Then you'd cut the buttons off to polish the backs to the required standard and sew them back on again. Duraglit was for civvies. Real men used Brasso. ;)

exscribbler
17th Jul 2008, 08:46
Naah. Real men drank Brasso.

cliffnemo
17th Jul 2008, 09:58
and malingerers drank H.P sauce. Bullexcreteras finished the polishing with Silvo. Skivers polished them once, then covered their buttons with aircraft dope, but it didn't con the searg with the beady eye. Later the top brass decided staybrite buttons were better.
Exscribbler asks You got that brevet yet, Cliff?
Why ? Have I taken longer than forty hours ?. But if I knew then I could gain a brevet in 40 hours, are even buy one on Ebay for a fiver (with Queens crown . A bit more for one with Kings crown) I would have waited.

exscribbler
17th Jul 2008, 12:30
Sorry, Cliff. I was trying to nudge us all back on thread! :ok:

Union Jack
17th Jul 2008, 12:43
Naah. Real men drank Brasso.

Now now Scribes - Bluebell, not Brasso, surely!

Jack

cynicalint
17th Jul 2008, 13:50
Clffnemo and bravolima80
It is so wonderful to read your reminiscences, as my dad was one of your contemporaries. He also was at Cambridge 2 ITW, Fairoaks, 18 EFTS and Heaton Park ACDC between Mar 43 and June 43; Monkton, Regina, Yorkton and Monkton July 43 to Mar 44, and was also pushed into gliders, much to his chagrin at the time, but his relief later in life. He talked of his pals who were lost during the crossing of the Rhine only once, and that was when he visited me when I was stationed at RAF Laarbruch and we visited the War Cemetery where he found their graves and wept. However, I still have his log-book and diary from Apr 44, which covers PRC, and ACOS training at Harrogate, Credenhill, and then his Glider training at Croughton in Nov 44 and Seighford in Dec 44. He then goes on to cover his time in Burma flying Dakotas on 668 and 194 Sqns and other delights such as the Aircrew Mountain Centre, Calcutta, Rangoon etc until his demob in Feb 47. Unfortunately, he passed on in 2000, but reading your words sounds exactly like him saying it. He was also reticent about sharing his experiences, always saying that no-one would be interested. I disagreed and this thread proves the interest is immense; I wish he could have been aware of the respect, interest and admiration in which your generation is held.
Thank you for making the effort to tell your story, we do appreciate it.

cliffnemo
17th Jul 2008, 18:51
O.K back to flying then, but no need to apologies Mr exscribbler, " I'm easy " Think it was all relevant . All comments , corrections, welcome. Any thing our nice Mr Moderator accepts is O.K by me, and it makes me think I am talking to some one.

One CYNICALINT sent me a pprune email attaching the above contribution, and I asked him if he would post it to this blog. He has done, and it appears above. So thanks very much, cynicalint, much appreciated, all contributions help, yours particularly.
It seems that at times they had a surplus of pilots at Harrogate, and tried to reduce the number by forcing them to convert to gliders. If you ever get to the end of this blog, you will find out what happened to me at Harrogate. I think that when we started our training the ratio of pilots to crew was smaller. Probably more Wimpeys. Sterlings, Beaufighters, than Lancasters and Halifaxes with seven man crews.

On our second week we received flying instruction on all the previous exercises. plus instrument flying, taking off into wind, circuits, approach and landing into wind, timed medium level turns, taking off out of wind, landing out of wind, and over shoot procedure. A total of about 7hours flying. This included my first solo on the P.T 17, after nine hours dual. I also had to sign my log book to confirm I had been instructed in "action in the event of fire" and abandoning an aircraft", which was also signed by my flight instructor. I received two hours on the link trainer. We had the usual subjects in the classroom, plus memorizing about twenty ground signals composed of flags, ground markers, and the thirty m.p.h windsock.

At about this time , an Australian cadet, who appeared to be the fittest bloke in our flight, he was more than six foot in height and weighed over twelve stones, started to loose weight rapidly. The M.O attributed it to nervous tension or something similar. He did his best to build up his weight , but in the end he was unsuccessful and had to eliminate him.

Just wondering if our weekends in Ponca , our hitchhiking, being invited to a Ponca Indian powwow , etc are suitable items for this blog. ?????? Or will you insist I keep flying.???

If it moves salute it, if it doesn't paint it.

exscribbler
18th Jul 2008, 00:13
http://www.kapowgifts.co.uk/acatalog/bluebell_metalpolish_postcard.jpg

I seem to remember someone once trying Teepol... :eek:

Brian Abraham
18th Jul 2008, 01:19
Just wondering if our weekends in Ponca , our hitchhiking, being invited to a Ponca Indian powwow , etc are suitable items for this blog.
We're all ears cliff. Although it may be difficult to believe at times, we are all adults......I think. :ok:
PS And thanks ever so for your wonderful memories.

green granite
18th Jul 2008, 06:56
Although it may be difficult to believe at times, we are all adults..

For a lot of us, in age only. :E

cliffnemo
19th Jul 2008, 16:51
To Green granite. In the forties . we did not become adults until we reached twenty one , so we were ?.

Back to Ponca. On our weekends off we found out that we could not return to the airfield after 2230 hrs Saturday, but could return between 0800 hrs and 2230 hrs Sunday. The only alternative, if we wished to stay out,was to book a room at the Jens Marie hotel, which was quite cheap, as it was room only. Particularly if we shared it with three or four other cadets. The mattress was placed on the floor, all the blankets place on the springs, this arrangement could cope with six of us comfortably. However we eventually learned it was unwise to tell any one where we were staying as on our first weekend we finished up with twelve cadets , who had missed the bus, in our room , sleeping across the bed, mattress, and on the floor . Sunday Breakfast was at the local drug store, and the staff always shouted as we left "y'all come again boys". We were always made most welcome wherever we went.
One weekend Bill **** and I missed the last bus back to camp, and as we had no money we decided to walk, so set off , but then after walking awhile decided we wouldn't get back in time. We decided to sleep on the grass verge as the night was warm and dry. We had just settled down when a car came along. Three girls got out and said we would be more comfortable in spare camp beds they had in their front garden, so we got in the car and were soon fast asleep in comfort. The following morning their mother woke us up with a full breakfast, coffee etc:. We eventually found out this sort of hospitality was the norm for Ponca people. Any one going to church was always invited to Sunday lunch after the service.

We also had an open invitation to the Continental Oil (Conoco) companies social club, where on a Saturday night a regular barn dance was held. Music being supplied by instruments such as , fiddle, guitar, accordion etc. The Ponca Indians held a powwow every year, to which "the boys from Darr School" were always invited, We were also invited to a rodeo while we were there.

Hitch hiking was also " a piece of cake", the first vehicle passing would stop and offer a lift. Once however I was hitching to Oklahoma city for the weekend, when a cowboy (complete with ten gallon , sorry no liters then, stetson) on a horse stopped and insisted I sit on the back of the horse and thumb a lift. Another time a truck pulled up, after I hopped in the driver, asked if I drove trucks and when I said I had done a bit in civvy street, he asked me if I would take over for a while as he was falling asleep. I was a bit dubious as he was hauling two trailers with an all up weight of thirty tons, and the gear box had thirteen gears. He said he would change gear, and after we got going I wouldn't need to change gear again for fifty miles as the road was dead straight,and flat. I managed O.K but when I was leaving the truck he did his best to persuade me to desert and take up truck driving. He offered me about ten times what I was earning in the R.A.F.
An amusing conversation took place when hitched a lift with some girls in a car. I offered them a cigarette which were Players navy cut. One of said "gee that's a quaint pack", I said they are English, she replied are you from England? and when I said yes, she said to her friend. gee he talks English just like us.

Must tell this one. On my first journey on a bus I noticed half way down the bus was a notice which read -No blacks in front of this sign-. I thought I would sit in the back of the bus as I didn't think it was right, a black lady in the back of the bus politely told me to sit in the front half.

Sorry if some of you think I have gone off thread, but I do think the good people of Ponca deserve thanks, I think it was the most hospitable town I have stayed in.

I Promise to do a bit more "dicing with death " next.

CAVEAT LECOR.

cliffnemo
20th Jul 2008, 15:14
Hi Exscibbler.
I have just seen this.
Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? (Is that a scroll in your toga, or are you just happy to see me?)

I thought my joke about a first field dressing was an original. Didn't know it was from chestnut corner.

harrym
20th Jul 2008, 17:34
Cliffnemo says of Harrogate "...... It seems that at times they had a surplus of pilots at Harrogate, and tried to reduce the number by forcing them to convert to gliders." Not just gliders either, during my time there (April-June '44) volunteers were also called for to fill vacancies for railway firemen. How many actually went I don't know, but in later life I met someone who did - he spent the best part of a year on shunting engines!

cliffnemo
21st Jul 2008, 07:50
Harrym is absolutely right. I had completely forgotten this , but wait to see what happened to me.

Wader2
22nd Jul 2008, 14:04
Dinghy practice took place in the harbour, regardless of weather. We dressed in Sidcot flying suits, flying boots, helmet, goggles, gloves and Mae West life jacket.
An inflated nine man survival raft was then thrown in and turned upside down. We were then instructed to jump in (high tide). Any one who hesitated was "assisted by our flight sergeant Then we were told how to turn it the right way up. One cadet was instructed to act as if he was unconscious, not very difficult for any of us. He just floated around in his Mae West. One cadet climbed in to pull and another remained outside to push the unconscious one up into the dinghy. We were then instructed in the use of all the equipment in the dinghy< flares, paddles . drogue, etc.

The R.A.F nine man survival dinghy was a marvelous and efficient piece of equipment. When it was inflated by compressed air bottle, not only were the two big rubber rings inflated but the floor, and top also., leaving only the doors to be inflated by mouth.

Nothing changed here then. Same dinghy, still upside down, still one unconscious casualty.

Surprised that it was a double chamber with inflatable floor and top. In the 50s we used a single ring open dinghy, the same type as in the film 'The Sea Shall Not have Them'.

They certainly did warm up when battened down but the rubber flavoured air was certainly honk inducing.

'Lindholme' refered I believe to a rescue system rather than the dinghy. A Lindholme gear comprised two survival containers and a dinghy joined with about 500 yards of buoyant cord. While we were told what was in the survival packs we were never allowed a hands-on in-the-dinghy practise.

Part of 'survival' is occupational therapy; we would have got warm unpacking the kit, trying to put on woolen socks, and keeping the fags and food dry.

cliffnemo
23rd Jul 2008, 15:13
I googled Lindhome and found they referred to the Lindhome dinghy, and Lindhome gear, but no info on canopies . It did say the dinghy was developed at R.A.F Lindhome.

I do remember our instructor mentioning the insulating properties of the canopy, but it could have been either I suppose.
Cliff.

cliffnemo
23rd Jul 2008, 19:16
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/NEG081-1.jpg
Before I start, I have printed a photo of one of my oppos at the Ponca Indian tribe annual powwow Just in case you thought my memory was playing tricks again. We even had tuition on performing a war dance.

Back to training. We progressed on to forced landings. steep turns , stalling, spinning, side slipping, and some of these solo. Being able to get away from the airfield solo, was exhilarating. Flying over the Arkansas river, the 101 ranch, and local small towns, free as bird. Total hours that week were about eleven. One mistake I made was on my first forced landing. .Mr DUX demonstrated the procedure. At about three thousand feet he told me to shut the throttle without warning, he chose a suitable field and glided down into wind, side slipping to loose height and when at about fifty feet , just over the fence he opened the throttle and climbed to three thousand feet. He then shut the throttle and said now you do it. I selected a field, and followed his instructions to the letter, then full throttle and climbed away.He said perfect, almost. I asked him why almost, he replied, you picked a ploughed field. I never made that mistake again.
At the same time classroom subjects included , action in the event of fire. forced landing procedure, standard beam approach, determining the beam when no Q.D.M cannot be obtained. Then asking for Q.G.Q and QFE. etc.

I now felt more confident, and was quite enjoying flying, particularly when flying solo

cliffnemo
30th Jul 2008, 15:07
I am having trouble with my post reply. My work occasionally disappears when I am half way through typing. I have tried to save it as i progress but either , I can't find it after saving,or if I try to use copy and then paste in word . it tries to copy the whole page and then says it is too large. Any help would be appreciated

cliffnemo
2nd Aug 2008, 10:19
Cor Blymey. Am having trouble posting. Three times I have lost my almost complete contribution . On my fourth effort I completed it and although I was signed in, I was informed I was not signed in and refused . Will try and post this. Just a piccy of the A.T 6 which I will describe later.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img4AT62.jpg

brakedwell
2nd Aug 2008, 12:22
I am having trouble with my post reply. My work occasionally disappears when I am half way through typing. I have tried to save it as i progress but either , I can't find it after saving,or if I try to use copy and then paste in word . it tries to copy the whole page and then says it is too large. Any help would be appreciated

Switch to a Mac! The operating system is far more user friendly than windows.

Fareastdriver
2nd Aug 2008, 12:53
Cliffnemo. A quick way not to lose long posts.

Type the whole thing out on Word before you open your pprune.

Shrink it to the toolbar.

Open up pprune and go to the post reply page.

Open up your post in Word.

Left button held down highlight the whole lot, then press Control and C.

Return to your reply and press Control and V.

The whole lot will appear.

Even if pprune collapses on you will still have it in Word. Its a good idea to shrink both pages so that you are back to your desktop and re-engage Internet Explorer. This will give you a second browser for you to work with photobucket.

cliffnemo
2nd Aug 2008, 14:41
Many thanks for your help Fareastdriver I was getting ready to "bail out" Have printed your instructions and will,comply. I prefer M.S word , as I am more familiar with it.

Wil now attempt to post my aborted effort "End of primary training."

AGAIN, much appreciated.
Cliff.

cliffnemo
2nd Aug 2008, 15:41
By the end of primary training I had flown thirty one hours dual. Thirty four solo, five hours night dual, two hours night solo, five hours , cloud flying, and eleven hours on the link trainer.
In the classroom we studied, the theory of bombing including angle of trail , gravity drop, wind resistance, and the bombsight. Bombing in wind , systematic bombing errors Armaments. Pyrotechnics. The mark2 gunsight including deflection shots, attack and evasion tactics, enemy aircraft recognition with wing spans and max speeds. We also had to learn the phonetic alphabet, which at that time was , able, baker , Charlie, dog fox, etc. Plus much more, which all had to be written down, and revised each evening ,then memorised, We then tested each other.

At the end of primary training, we had exams and “check rides” any one who failed was returned to Canada. The cadets who passed were then given fourteen days leave, and a free train ticket. Hardy Albrecht who lived in Atkins, Iowa, invited Bill and me to stay at his home, which we readily accepted . Hardy advised us to use the word furlough and not leave, as no one would know what we were talking about. I hope next to tell you about our advanced training on the A.T 6, but not before I tell you about being taken to the police station in Cedar Rapids for parking Hardy’s Pontiac next to a fire hydrant.

cliffnemo
2nd Aug 2008, 19:09
Thanks for the suggestion, Brakedwell.
Will condsider it when I buy my next computer, but only purchased this one (on Vista ) recently.
Cliff.

cliffnemo
3rd Aug 2008, 16:50
Sorry folks for triplicating my post. Have deleted two ,I hope, and all for no extra charge.
Cliff.

Dundiggin'
3rd Aug 2008, 18:14
I woz in a Sqn at Aldergrove once (well more than 'once' actually) talking to one of our pilots who announced proudly that 'his Dad flew Halifaxes and when he crashed at Aldergrove he nearly took out the Officers Mess'. Anyone know any details of that event?

Fareastdriver
4th Aug 2008, 09:13
Know about it! I was there.

For those that know Aldergrove if you stand outside the officer’s mess and look along the road that goes to the perimeter track there is what used to be a car park on the left. In the late forties there was a building there of which half was the WAAF officers quarters and the other half a married quarter, my father’s, so I used to have a grandstand view of Spitfires nosing over, Halifaxs landing with half the gear up and every other calamity that befell the station.

The Halifax you mentioned was on circuit training and I gather he fluffed an asymmetric overshoot. He was on the northerly runway with No 4 feathered. His resulting action caused it to follow the taxiway in front of the Belfast hangers only just about airborne. Unfortunately the starboard wing collected a parked Lancaster wingtip which slewed the aircraft so that it passed between the hangers and the old firing range that then had a lot of trees around it. This destroyed any semblance of flying speed and it was at this time that I first saw it.

It blasted out of the scenery, passed over the junction at the far end of the OM road and ended up in the coal dump between the OM and the old airmen’s quarters. There was an enormous cloud of coal dust and then the male section of ‘The Black and White Minstrel Show’ climbed out of the aircraft. The fascinating bit was watching a mainwheel roll down the road to the OM, trundle across the croquet pitch and expire on the front steps.

It wasn’t the most spectacular one I saw at Aldergrove. That was on an Empire Air Day in 1948 watching a RAF Tiger Moth doing low level aerobatics. He did a perfect 0.95 loop hitting the ground about thirty feet in front of me. The impact caused the engine to fold under the fuselage and when the various bits had returned to earth the pilot got out and start kicking the s**t out of the remains. After they had taken him away they put the wreckage on a trolley and placed it in the spectators enclosure so that they could see what a crashed aeroplane looked like. They then put half-a-dozen of us kids on the tailplane of a Spitfire to hold it down and gave us a quick fan with a Griffon at seemingly full chat.

A wonderful non-namby-pamby world.

Dundiggin'
4th Aug 2008, 13:18
Many thanks Fareastdriver!! Spectacular stuff! The name was Tate does that ring any bells?

cliffnemo
4th Aug 2008, 16:18
Below is a rather poor photo of a Lancaster that fortunately missed the sergeant's mess bar.
The no bacon and eggs heading is not strictly true, the rear gunner, not only had his bacon and eggs but was on parade the next day, not so the other six crew members.
We saw them coming back across the North Sea, below us, on three engines.Rumour had it that they undershot the runway and had removed the rudder trim on approach. Then gave the three engines full power with no trim, then stalled out on top of a hangar. I refuse to name the airman who took the photograph from inside his greatcoat.


KILROY WAS HERE


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img046.jpg

Fareastdriver
4th Aug 2008, 22:37
I cannot remember any of their names. He must have been one of the b*st**ds who wrecked my brand new train set when my father threw a Xmas party.

cliffnemo
9th Aug 2008, 15:36
I hope that two pictures of the A.T. 6 cockpit will appear below, but thought it better to print now as I am still learning how to use photobucket. No matter what I do, as yet, I cannot control the size. Both pictures were taken with a "five bob" camera, the pic of me was taken by holding the camera at arms length,and pointing at me.
Looking at the photo , it appears that I am wearing an early type flying helmet with the leather zipped earphone covers ( must have "acquired" it ) . We were issued with the later rubber ear cup type. The leather type, I think were better, as they reduced the sound entering the ears. Didn't prevent me from becoming quite deaf though.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/2008-03-17-1705-32_edited.jpg

Will explain pictures in my next contribution.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img053-1.jpg

Davaar
10th Aug 2008, 13:03
paid three shillings and sixpence per day

There were good times ahead, though. By 1955 that had shot up to four shillings per day.

cliffnemo
10th Aug 2008, 14:40
There were certainly good times ahead, V.E day. V.J day. and waiting for demob.

brakedwell
10th Aug 2008, 16:00
Quote:
paid three shillings and sixpence per day
There were good times ahead, though. By 1955 that had shot up to four shillings per day.

That's what made me join then !! ;)

cliffnemo
10th Aug 2008, 16:02
I am now using M.S Word as suggested by Fareastdriver, it’s much easier and I can save my work as I progress. Would recommend this method (see previous post.) So back to Cedar Rapids.

I can’t remember much about this visit , only that it was a six hundred mile each way train journey, and what happened at the police station. Hardy’s mother and father treated Bill and me like royalty, and nothing was too good for us. Hardy got his Pontiac on the road, and insured it for both of us to drive. Bill didn’t have a licence, and could not drive. It may surprise you , but very few of the English cadets had driving licences at that time.

Petrol, or gas as we had to call it is was only a fraction of the U.K price so we spent the days exploring the area. One day when I was driving, I stopped in Cedar Rapids. A policeman suddenly appeared and asked who was driving, I said I was, so he asked for my licence, as I was committing an offence parking in front of a fire hydrant. I gave it to him, and he seemed mystified, we were told to stay by the car and wait while he found out what to do with this peculiar licence. He returned and told us to follow him to the police station, which we did. We went in to the police station, and told to sit down, and wait. While we waited we discussed the possibility of being told to stay in Cedar Rapids, and being A.W.O.L etc. After a while we were taken upstairs and entered a door marked Chief of police. We were politely asked to sit down in front of a table laden with cookies , coke, coffee, cigarettes , and heaven knows what. We spent the next hour being questioned on England, the war, bombing , rationing, ad infinitum. This was followed by a tour of the police station, and being introduced to all the staff, after which we departed to thanks, good luck and the usual y’all come again boys.

That’s all the printable bits I can remember about our “furlough“, so back on the train to Ponca, all bright eyed and bushy tailed, impatient to start advanced training.

On our first day back, we were introduced to the A.T 6, known as the Texan, we were told it had a wing span of forty feet (to us a massive forty feet, bigger than the Spit, and Huricane ), fitted with Pratt and Whitney radial engine, and with more sophisticated equipment than the P.T 17. These included, a constant speed prop, a gyro compass, artificial horizon, retractable undercarriage . two way radio (we found we could tune in to radio Ponca City W.B.B Z, when night flying, and listen to our favourite country and western music , Rose of San Antone, Waiting round the water tank, and many more).

I will study my flying log book and describe the advanced exercises next.

Fareastdriver
12th Aug 2008, 01:06
I cannot control the size.

Check you PMs

cliffnemo
12th Aug 2008, 15:32
Just practicing printing photo of "entering the beam in bad vis" Following Fareastern's instructions. At the same time I thought it might give some modern aviators a laugh.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img055.jpg

More evenings spent revising and memorizing .

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/REPLACEBEAMAPPROACH271.jpg
i have replaced this scan, after removal by photobucket.

cliffnemo
16th Aug 2008, 17:05
Although I said I would describe the advanced exercises next, in actual fact . the first exercises were initially the same as the ones described during preliminary training., but in a different aircraft and a new instructor Mr Chronister. He was the first instructor I met who always wore cowboy boots for flying, he explained the curved back to the heel rolled on the floor better making it easier to control the rudder pedals. He demonstrated the use of the various controls, radio. Throttle, mixture control. Tank selection switch, and the extra instruments including gyro compass, and artificial horizon. Use of flaps., and retracting under carriage. On our first take off ,he explained procedure for checking fuel supply, start up on number one tank, run engine to check full revs, then check for mag drop, taxy out on number two tank, change back to number one for take off. Think I mentioned before that two of our cadets were killed because on changing over from number two to number one prior to take off , the pilot didn’t push the control knob over far enough, leaving it half way between, they took off and the aircraft crashed.
However, where we relied on visual signals , aldis/vary pistol for permission to land etc, we now had the use of two way radio, and were instructed to call the tower for permission, using the words “ Hello Darr tower, this is 295 on the base leg, wheels down and locked , pressure up, gas on reserve, permission to land over” when the airfield controller would reply “ 295 land when clear, out “.
One of our oppos was having trouble, he was the shortest in the flight, and on his first trip in the A.T 6, found he was not sitting high enough to see out of the windscreen.. The flight mechs raised the seat for him, but then he couldn’t reach the rudder pedals. They then put blocks on the pedals but this was considered unsafe so he was “washed out” and returned to Canada.

For the first four hours we carried out previous excercises but mainly concentrated on “circuits and bumps” after which I had to sign a statement to the effect that I was familiar with the fuel and hydraulic system., recommended speeds, local traffic rules etc. Later I signed to say I fully understood the procedures for action in the event of fire, and abandoning aircraft. After this I flew my first solo.in the A.T 6. Now free to explore Kaw lake (169 miles of shore line) the Arkansas river, Free as a bird.

Chugalug2
16th Aug 2008, 21:32
I thought it might give some modern aviators a laugh.

Hardly a laugh, Cliff. I assume that your 'Beam Approach' is an SBA, or Standard Beam Approach. It is possible that the present generation might not realise that there were no Instrument indications, other than passage over the outer or inner beacons as per Outer Markers etc. The sole input was aural, dot dashes or A's to the left, dash dots or N's to the right, and a steady tone on the beam, with a Cone of Silence over the transmitter. On that basis let downs were done to amazingly low minima, given no ILS or Radar let downs until much later, hence the complex pattern in Cliff's notes. Sorry if I pre-empted your own explanation, Cliff. I never performed or witnessed such a procedure myself, but have seen a RadioRange (a similar en-route aid) utilised. We were entering the Hawaiian ADIZ in the early 60s in a Hastings. ATC required us to report TACAN Gate Delta, no TACAN. Then instructed to report established inbound on the Diamond Head VOR 180 Radial, no VOR. They then demanded to know which inbound aid we could use. "Tell them the RadioRange" the Captain told the Signaller, and so it was. On our last day at Hickam, preparing to leave after some days of repeating the procedure we were accosted by a man from the FAA. We were the first notified uses of the facility in some half a dozen years. It was scheduled for closure, but this couldn't happen if it was in current use. Could the Captain sign this disclaimer saying that he had no further planned use of it? He happily did so, though what the next crew were left with I'm not sure! The Nav's station was essentially unchanged from the Halifax, but they thus happily navigated us around the world.
Great posts Cliff, please keep them coming. I think it is the minutiae that makes it all so fascinating, and your amazing memory for detail. Thank you indeed!

cliffnemo
17th Aug 2008, 09:56
No need to apologies for pre-empting , I need all the help I can get, also I feel as if I am talking to some one when I receive a reply. It is also satisfying and encouraging.

Question.
What happened to Chugalug 1, still in the glasshouse.?
Do the present generation indulge in Chugalug, or is it banned by " health and welfare" ?

P.S If this appears twice, apologies and, no extra charge. Composed, and submitted the first one, but it has not been seen since. Did see a screen saying database error though.

Chugalug2
17th Aug 2008, 11:31
I suspect Chugalug(1) was like me, ex Dan-Air. Anyway I was told it was not available when I registered with PPRuNe, but (2) was offered instead. Chugalug was a discreet R/T greeting by us to Maastricht ATC, having been created by our very pro-active Ops Director and staff. In a number of memorable 'liaison' visits to them, involving much quaffing of best Scotch, etc, the phrase was coined. The response was invariably "Chugalug, Dan-Air XXX, you are cleared direct to the Frankfurt VOR", or wherever. Direct routings were the prize for all this, saving time and money. Happier days, when initiative was rewarded instead of bringing down PC strictures about correct procedure which would be the result these days, no doubt!

Fareastdriver
17th Aug 2008, 11:37
I thought it might give some modern aviators a laugh.

This modern aviator remembers flying beam approaches. Tern Hill in 1961.

What did give me a laugh was one 'I know it all' modern aviator informing another that the Ns were heard in one earphone and the As in the other. As neither of them weren't going to experience it I let it go.

Your'e doing a grand job cliffnemo, keep it up.

brakedwell
17th Aug 2008, 13:02
I was at Ternhill in 1955/6, but I can't remember doing any beam approaches in the Piston Provost. The link trainer maybe! It must be a sign of getting really old. :confused::confused::confused:

Chugalug2
17th Aug 2008, 14:21
Brakedwell:

It must be a sign of getting really old. http://static.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

With Cliff's indulgence I think that on this thread at least we can all feel like young sprogs again as he leads us through the experience of learning the craft in time of a very hot war indeed. The sheer scale of this national effort, the perils that were faced by all and especially these brave young men, the complexity of planning needed resulting in the thousands of fully crewed, fuelled, serviced, and bombed up aircraft available night after night is mind numbing. Fortunately for us Cliff's generation was up to that challenge. Time they were properly remembered and honoured for such sacrifice by we later generations.

cliffnemo
17th Aug 2008, 14:34
Think my question has confused Chugalug 2. sorry.
The fourties definition of Chugalug. = A game played by mess members usually after 2200 hrs when one group of members challenged an other group to a drinking race. After pint glasses were refueled , the two groups faced each other. After the referee shouted start, yes shouted as everyone else was singing at the top of their voices ,drink chugalug, chugalug. chugalug, the race started. The first man on each side then had to drink his beer as fast as possible and then turned it upside down on his head, followed by no 2 etc. . Last to finish bought a round of drinks for the winners.
Fastest pint I witnessed was four and a half seconds.
Hope you don't think this is off thread. Don't think so. We don't seem to have any pedantic types on our blog every one seems cheerful and helpful.

Chugalug2
17th Aug 2008, 17:52
Mea Culpa, Cliff, I thought you were asking why I used the tag, as if that mattered! Indeed the old mess games were still around in my day, and I believe still are. Hicockalorum, mess steeplechase, I believe there is an unhealthy interest in Artillery as well!
Interestingly this definition has the phrase originate circa 1936;
"To drink a container of beer without pause, My Lord"
"No doubt popular with the younger generation!"
"Quite so, My Lord".
chugalug - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chugalug)
Your game I remember as 'Do You Know the Muffin Man', but like Brakedwell I've probably misremembered!

cliffnemo
18th Aug 2008, 09:50
Two jokes I hadn't heard.
A 95% loop.
Di Da in left ear and da dit in right ear.
Keep them coming.

Yes chugalug 2, "Do you know the muffin man" was also sometimes sung during the game in W.W 2.

Fareastdriver
18th Aug 2008, 22:31
Brakewell

Remember the 'coffee grinder' on the centre consol. Tern Hill had a beam approach though we used the TBA that allowed you to change frequencies. Delving into the grey matter it was on runway 23 with the Ns to the north and As to the south.. Different from cliffnemo's illustration becuse it had an inner and outer marker. No requirement to find the cone of silence as ATC would give you steers. Once overhead outbound on the beam descending to 1,200ft confirming you range on the inner marker. At the outer marker a teardrop turn that brought you back to the outer followed by a descent on the beam. Not below 300ft until the inner then full flap 1,200rpm and you arrived at the touchdown markers that also doubled in the spot landing contests. It worked every time. It has been reputed that on late Friday afternoons the touchdown markers were the first visual indication that you had reached the runway, not that I ever did it.

brakedwell
19th Aug 2008, 07:34
Fareastdriver

You have an excellent memory! I checked my first log book and the Link Trainer sessions consisted of Pattern B's, Beam Orientation, Free Beam Let Downs, CDTC's using above and Full Beam Patterns. Unfortunately I only logged exercise numbers on Provost sorties.

henry crun
19th Aug 2008, 09:22
My experience at Fetwell was probably fairly typical of what has been mentioned so far.

We started using the TBA at about 20 hours on the Harvard, IRT at about 40 hours, and flew a total of about 20 hours TBA on the Harvard phase.

Sorting out the orientation was the major initial problem, but once that was mastered it was relatively easy aid for a novice to use, and accurate.

shack
19th Aug 2008, 14:32
I agree with Henry Crun, although my experiences were at Ternhill in 1951, Prentices and Harvards anyone?

harrym
19th Aug 2008, 16:51
Re Chugalug 2’s observations on SBA, during the summer of ’44 I did a week’s course with no. 534 Beam Approach Training Flight at Shawbury. SBA was a highly accurate landing aid, but demanding to use (aural signals only, and those damned dots and dashes were positively hypnotic!), and suffering from the grave disadvantage of giving azimuth guidance only - no glide slope information aside from two marker beacons spaced about five miles apart. Crossing the first (outer) marker at 5-6 miles from touchdown at (say) 1500ft, descent was commenced at a rate that hopefully would bring one over the second (inner, later to be renamed middle marker, situated about a third of a mile from touchdown) at a specified minimum approach height from which a landing could safely be made. If one arrived at this height before reaching the inner marker (can’t recall what, but it was certainly quite low – 200ft or even less), then the minimum was held until reaching it, if too high then one might not see the runway at all. But get it right, and it certainly worked - I recall at least one totally blind landing. Not 100% blind of course, as all flights were with an instructor though I can’t now remember how IF conditions were simulated – probably by the student wearing the dreaded ‘tin hat’, a sort of cowl held to his head by a large spring clip. Aircraft used was the Oxford, a responsive bird and quite docile apart from a fondness for swinging off the runway after landing.

His observations on using American airspace without benefit of VOR/DME also brought back memories. Unbelievably the RAF Britannia was ordered without VOR or (so far as I recall) TACAN either, but when taking one to Hickam in late ’59 I recall no problems using Radio Range or NDB though possibly with a bit of radar assistance along the way; however, by the time of the Hastings incident he mentions, the Americans might reasonably have expected us poor Brits to have moved out of the stone age. As for the RAF Brits, inevitably they had to have VOR fitted a few years later, along with anti-collision lights and a few other things that should have been fitted in the first place - MOD procurement cock-ups are nothing new!

Mike Read
19th Aug 2008, 18:27
Just read an interesting book, "Flights into the Night" by L Anthony Leicester in which he relates his joining the RAF for pilot training in 1942, sent to Canada, first op in a Wellington as captain aged 19, the youngest of the crew. Then ferry another one to Cairo and then on to India. Ops against Japanese in Burma then after completion of that tour posted to Daks supply dropping etc to Chindits. Back to UK for Transport Command into Europe. After the war he joined RCAF and finally left in 1968.

My local library had a large print edition which made life easier.

Mike Read
19th Aug 2008, 18:43
My recollection of Harvards at Ternhill in 1951 was that unrated students could fly solo provided the cloudbase was 800 ft minimum and visibility 500 yds but white rated could fly with 500 ft but needed a greater visibility, possibly 1000 or 1200 yds which even to my inexperienced eyes seemed all wrong. Of course the SBA needed to be serviceable and one would have been trained to use TBA. I can't remember anyone taking off to fly in those conditions though.

cliffnemo
20th Aug 2008, 16:20
Harrym. Just looking at my pic of S.B.A. I can remember Q.F.E , what is barometric reading at airfield level.
Q.D.M what is magnetic bearing to airfield, but what is Q.G.A?

exMudmover
20th Aug 2008, 16:22
Wonderful stuff Cliffnemo, please keep it coming. I hope you're saving this all to disc for your autobiography! I started flying training in the 60s and remember IIRC some Beam Approach fans still shown on our Instrument Flying charts at that time, although we had all gone over to QGH to PAR/SRA by then.

ACR7 and MPN11 - Ah, happy days!

Sailor Vee
20th Aug 2008, 18:39
QGA IIRC is a 'controlled descent through cloud', what a quaint title!

off watch
20th Aug 2008, 20:12
G3NPF and M1AIM Home Page Code Section (http://homepages.tesco.net/~a.wadsworth/Qcode.htm)

QGA Sie können sofort mit Landefunkfeuer landen

whatever that means !? :rolleyes:

Airborne Aircrew
20th Aug 2008, 20:57
QGA Sie können sofort mit Landefunkfeuer landen

"(You can) Land using runway localizing beacon" would probably be colloquially correct.

Fareastdriver
21st Aug 2008, 00:24
Sailor V
QGA IIRC is a 'controlled descent through cloud',

Sorry, only 8/26. That's called a QGH.

harrym
21st Aug 2008, 14:10
Cliffnemo - not sure what QGA might be, but think it might be some form of controlled descent. As Fareastdriver points out, QGH is a 'controlled descent through cloud' though I think one where the control is effected by a ground station taking bearings on transmissions from an aircraft, and passing those bearings back to the pilot; so maybe QGA is some other primitive form of an instrument let-down? Don't recall knowingly doing one as such, anyway.

FlightTester
21st Aug 2008, 15:45
This was the best list I could find...

WEMSI - Q Signals (http://www.wemsi.org/qsigs.html)

Sailor Vee
21st Aug 2008, 18:46
Sorry, only 8/26.Obviously I didn't recall correctly! :O

Ever do a 'Violet Picture Homing'?

Hugh Spencer
22nd Aug 2008, 16:13
I found my list in:
Ralf D. Kloth DL4TA - List of Q-codes (http://www.kloth.net/radio/qcodes.php) - QGH - May I land using....(procedure or facility) but no QGA on the list.

Brian Abraham
23rd Aug 2008, 01:32
Ever do a 'Violet Picture Homing'?
Still being used as late as 1975 in Oz.

Sailor Vee
23rd Aug 2008, 06:31
Think the last one I did was for my IRT in '77, (Royal Navy, Wezzie 5).

cliffnemo
23rd Aug 2008, 09:20
Good morning Brian , or afternoon is it in Australia ?
How about explaining " violet picture homing" to some of us impecunious oldies

I am beginning to think that A in my Q.G.A should have been an H. But I have definitely written A. in my exercise book.

Pedalz
23rd Aug 2008, 09:57
cliffnemo your story is fantastic, even for the younger ones of us here. Please continue :D

Warmtoast
23rd Aug 2008, 10:24
Cliffnemo

QGHs

Here is what I wrote earlier about this approach procedure:

QGH

As a RAF VHF/DF Operator for over eight years in the 1950’s I provided the bearings for many “QGH’s”. In the 1950’s in the RAF a ‘QGH’ was a request made by a pilot for a ‘Controlled Descent Through Cloud’ and the procedure was to home the aircraft to overhead the airfield with ‘Magnetic Bearings to Steer’ (QDMs).

QGHs would be controlled by the air traffic controller, but on a couple of occasions I did it myself, which was probably against all the rules and regulations, but they worked.

Procedure: The pilot would give a ten-second transmission on the RT which would allow the DF operator to swing the DF aerial to find the ‘null’ on the transmission and by depressing the ‘sense’ plate (which put the aerials out of phase) determine that what was being shown on the DF wheel against the cursor was the correct bearing to the aircraft and it was not a reciprocal. When the sense plate was depressed the signal either when up or down, if it went up the bearing was wrong and the reciprocal was indicated, it was then a matter of swinging the aerial 180-degrees to find the ‘null’ again, go ten degrees either side of the ‘null’ point and depress the sense plate again, this time the signal should go down and if it did one had the correct bearing.

The circumference of the DF wheel was marked with two scales. Top scale showed true bearings from the VHF/DF (QTE’s) whilst the lower scale was marked in red and showed the magnetic course to steer to the airfield (QDMs). To home the aircraft to the airfield overhead for a QGH one read off the bearing shown on the bottom scale, passed it to the controller who in turn passed the magnetic course to steer to the airfield to the aircraft. Aircraft RT transmissions were given every minute or so (or less) with the DF operator taking the bearings. When the aircraft reached the overhead the aircraft’s transmissions sounded all mushy; confirmation that the aircraft was overhead was established by depressing the sense plate and if there was no increase or decrease in signal the aircraft was in fact overhead.

Having informed the controller that the aircraft had reached the overhead, the controller told the aircraft to steer an outbound course about fifteen or twenty degrees to the right of the reciprocal of the inbound runway heading and to descend to an agreed height, possibly 1000ft. The outbound track was flown I seem to recall for about two (or perhaps three minutes). At the end of the two minutes the aircraft was asked to do a rate one turn onto the inbound runway heading, which if all had gone well placed him very near the extended runway centre line at 1000ft. On the inbound leg DF bearings were taken which allowed the controller to check that the aircraft was steering the right course inbound. The controller also gave heights to descend to, so perhaps with one minute to fly to the airfield the aircraft would be at about 500ft and descending to the minimal obstacle height. Unless flying in exceptionally poor visibility the aircraft would see the approach lights and land.

This is all culled from methods last practiced by me over fifty years ago, so if there are any inaccuracies, blame it on age, but the principles are as I remember them.

Photos below show a VHF/DF Station, the radio layout and taking a bearing.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThornhillVHFDFHomerExterior.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThornhillVHFDFHomerInterior.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThornhillAtthewheel.jpg

To minimize bearing errors VHF/DF Homers were placed as near as possible to the runway, which on most occasions worked well, until some clot doesn't correct for drift on take-off and manages to ruin the VHF/DF as seen below.

The pupil pilot was in a Harvard and with a severe dent in his wing following the collision managed to do a circuit and land safely. Thankfully the duty VHF/DF operator was shocked but unhurt - if the aircraft had been a couple of feet lower when it hit, a major tragedy would have been the outcome.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThornhillVHF-DF-After.jpg

Brian Abraham
23rd Aug 2008, 11:01
Good morning Cliff :ok: I'm afraid I'll have to pass on the Violet Picture approach procedure - was 38 years ago for me and my memory is no patch on yours. No notes to refer to either, about all I can recall is also using it to home on SARBE emergency beacons as well.
This site Q - Code Information Page (http://ww2.isys.ca/lberta/qcode1.html) lists QGA as Unassigned. Perhaps too good a weekend in Ponca City prior to that class Cliff.
Love reading your experiences.

Edited to add perhaps the use of QGA was for local training purposes/reasons.

cliffnemo
23rd Aug 2008, 11:42
I have just finished publishing two pictures of me on “ pprune Sticky Photos of Everybody” , a then and now. Your chance to have another laugh.
With regard to the S.B.A question thanks for the interest. Think descent through cloud might be the best interpretation . To Flight tester I see you are in Wichita Kansa. I hitch hiked there, and bought a pair of cowboy boots, and Hickok belt. We often hitched to places at weekends. Tulsa, (The oil capital of the world). Oklahoma City. Guthrie etc. Wichita , seventy miles North, was always less than two hours hitching, and on the way we were questioned about things happening in the U.K by every one, and often offered accommodation. The Americans certainly appreciate servicemen.

Back to advanced training. In the classroom, studying armaments, bomb aiming errors, bomb sight installation errors, Types of airfield lighting, and Darky.

Darky was a system used for establishing an approximate position, when lost , or when navigational equipment was U/S. T his system would give a position within ten miles of a named H/F radio station. We learned we had to use the correct words otherwise the ground station would not answer, which w ere as follows .
1/ Hello darky (3 times)
2/This is gothard fox (3 times)
3/do you hear me (2 times)
4/ over
A station within ten miles would then reply this is Marham, standing by , over. If in trouble, a pilot would call hello darky. May day, may day , may day. over. If a station heard or saw an aircraft in distress, they would call out “hello nemo (three times) do you here me , over. The aircraft in distress would then give the letter of the day. After which the ground station would give their position and ask what assistance was required.. This had to be written down in the classroom, and re-written using fountain pens (The biro pen had not been invented) in our exercise books in the evening , then memorised . We were later tested to ensure we were word perfect. Later we were asked questions on all these subjects during our wings exams.
Ringing home was unheard of, just a microfilm letter once a week to parents, saying the usual serviceman’s, every thing is fine, wherever they were , or whatever the conditions..
In the month of November 43 we were introduced to low flying. Cross country navigation, and aerobatics. Although in the classroom we were studying astro nav, using the sextant , and star positions, The navigation exercises , consisted of plotting a track , applying corrections for wind, and compass deviation to arrive at a course to steer. Calculating E.T.A. All this was done with a thing we called a computer strapped to one leg , in effect a circular slide rule based on logarithms. A Douglas protractor completed our navigational equipment at that time The course to steer was then pencilled in on a map, gnomonic projection ??? The use of Mercator charts was to come later.
Aerobatics, consisted of, slow rolls, barrel rolls, Imelmans ( a roll off the top of a loop) loops (100% look you) We could not fly upside down as the A.T 6 was not fully aerobatic , the carburettor wouldn’t deliver the gas, but with sufficient height we could glide upside down. Low flying was thrilling, and we had plenty of space over the 101 ranch. However this had to be authorized, and unauthorized low flying was a serious punishable offense..
Total hours for November were, dual 10, solo 3, link 5..
Some say good old sergeant, and others tell the truth.

FlightTester
23rd Aug 2008, 15:34
To Flight tester I see you are in Wichita Kansa. I hitch hiked there, and bought a pair of cowboy boots, and Hickok belt. We often hitched to places at weekends. Tulsa, (The oil capital of the world). Oklahoma City. Guthrie etc. Wichita , seventy miles North, was always less than two hours hitching


Hi Cliff,

I also fly down to Ponca fairly regularly - the next time I go I shall be looking at it with a whole new perspective. I also get to go up to Cedar Rapids a couple of times a year. Marvellous story, please keep it going.

Cheers

FlightTeste

Paula K. Denson
24th Aug 2008, 23:09
Hi Cliff,
As a journalist and author of the Royal Air Force in Oklahoma I have been enjoying your stories and only wish I had found you before my book was published last year. This photo shows the cadets in Ponca City at Darr School as they splashed and played. Did you know that Mr. Lew Wentz, a wealthy oilman and philanthropist, was responsible for building this pool for you? Mr. Wentz provided generous funds to many needy children with health problems over the years he lived in Oklahoma. His memory lives on as he left a big endowment for college scholarships as well.

Please tell your devoted readers to check out my pages on www.pkdenson.com (http://www.pkdenson.com).

Paula Denson

Chugalug2
25th Aug 2008, 15:03
cliffnemo:I have just finished publishing two pictures of me on “ pprune Sticky Photos of Everybody” , a then and now.
OK Cliff, I'll buy it, which is which? :) Seriously, you seem to have learned the secret of eternal youth. The question is always posed, so what would you put it down to? As regards your engrossing tale of the odyssey from initial recruitment to operations could you say a word or two about the RAF presence at US Flying Schools. For instance you say that:

unauthorized low flying was a serious punishable offense

which chimes with the RAF attitude to such shenanigans, but punishable by whom, and how? I would guess that the sword of Damocles wielded over all of you was the ever present one of being chopped, so would that be effected by the civilian staff there, or was there a resident RAF chain of command, complete with thread bare carpet on which you could be summarily chastised, fined, confined to barracks, defaulters parade, glass house, or worst of all sent back to Canada for re-assignment? You have rightly emphasised the freedom and hospitality enjoyed by you all in the US, but I suspect that there was a fairly short leash in reality or was it truly as remote from the RAF CoC as you make it sound? As ever, more please!

cliffnemo
25th Aug 2008, 15:23
As a journalist and author of the Royal Air Force in Oklahoma (cliffnemo tried to highlight this , but didn't succeed . (Back to the drawing board)

_______________
Hi Paula. Welcome aboard. Nice to hear from Ponca City. It is apparent Mr Wentz was ( think was. as you used past tense) typical of the generous people of Oklahoma. He enabled us to spend many pleasant warm evenings in the pool.

Hope you keep reading, and if you want to use any of the posts in the future you have my permission. If you want to obtain a print out, just click on thread tools ,second orange line down for a printable version

I purchased a copy of your book, about two years ago. Very interesting, after reading I gave it to my grandson, to add to his collection of my memorabilia . I would recommend any one to click on Paula K. Denson | Ponca Prairie Press (http://www.pkdenson.com). and then on home , the book cover will then appear , click on book cover. More details will then appear and prove that all the foregoing is not a figment of my imagination.


Many thanks to you and all the Poncans.

cliffnemo
25th Aug 2008, 15:29
Perfectly simple dear Chugalug 2. Just choose the right parents. Will answer your questions when I have recovered.

Cliff.

cliffnemo
26th Aug 2008, 10:16
Just something for you to read, while I cobble up a reply to Far Eastern Driver, Warmastoast, Brian Abraham. et al.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/img009.jpg

bravolima80
26th Aug 2008, 22:33
Do you remember at Moncton we were told not to discuss the "color" situation in the Deep South? Only if we were "got at" over India. What was wrong with India we wondered...? The American Aviation Cadets on our course even began to use Christian names. We took the mickey over their netball and rounders, but we all got on remarkably well. I cannot remember any bad behaviour in Terrell or Dallas. If you were eliminated in the morning it was back to Moncton on the afternoon train. Wings parade brought "our" families to the airfield and I was in touch with "my" family until deaths in the fifties. It was a great experience. At Kissimmee last March I had a trip, hands on, in a Harvard. I was asked to bring my log book when I booked and they were fascinated to read about the B.F.T.S. Training.in the States. I hope this helps:ok:

jonathon68
27th Aug 2008, 19:37
Hi Cliff, keep up the postings.

I was just back in the UK and caught up with my grandpa (age 88+). He gave me his RAF logbooks for safe keeping.

It is interesting to see how swift he got his wings compared to you!

First flight Mar 7th 1938 in B2 G-ACEM w/ Flt/Lt Powell at Brough (4 FTS).

First solo Mar 18th after 8 hours 55 minutes.

RAF Depot Uxbridge 7-22nd May 1938 after a total of approx 82 hours.

From May22nd at 6 FTS Netheravon, Wilts, training continued on Hart and Audax aircraft. CFI test on 4th august in Hart K5024 with W/Cdr Toogood, with logbook certified as "Qualified for award of flying badge on 20th august".

Therefore 5 and a half months to get his wings in 1938 with a total of 99 hours 50 minutes flying experience (97.15 day/1.35 night) at the age of 18 years 10 months.

His training continued at 6 FTS until 17th December 1938 in the Hart and Audax with a total of 153 hours 10 minutes. Remarks for sorties in this phase of training include formation, quarter attacks, astern attacks, war load climb to 15 000' etc.

I don't intend to bore too much with details. As an airline pilot I found the total hours/experience vs age aspect of his logbooks quite interesting.

In 1939 he was target towing in a Seal at 2 AOS and 10 AOS/BGS, before going to CFS in Jan 1940 with a total of 436 hours as a Plt/Ofc, age 20.

Lot's of instructing followed at 8 FTS (Montrose) on the Magister Mar 1940 to Feb 41, and then 54 OTU Church Fenton (mainly Blenheim) until Nov 41 as a Flt/Lt with a total of 1404 hours, age 22 years 1 month.

First tour 219 squadron (Beaufighter NF) Nov 1941-Sept 1942 with first kill, a Ju88 in aug 42. Total hours 1715.

Second tour initially 255, then 600 squadron in north africa from Feb 43 until Feb 44. Sqd/Ldr DFC with total 2190 hours, total 7 kills, all at night.

54 OTU Beaufighter/Mosquito May 44 till Mar 45. With 2260 hours total experience, he became O/C 605 Squadron apr-aug1945 as a W/Cdr age 25 years 10 months.

My grandfather remained in the RAF until 1969, retiring still as a W/Cdr. Having joined the RAF on a 4 year short service commission (1938-1942) he was transferred to the reserve/ retained on the active list on the same date in 1942. In sept 1945 he went from a "war substantative W/Cdr" to a permanent commission Flt/Lt with a seniority date of 1 Dec 1942. (airline pilots will go "ouch" in sympathy).

His last flight was Jan 16th 1960 in a Chipmunk at Cranwell. Total hours 3360.

Total career 3360 hours/31 years = 108 hours per year!

It is nice to see such details in books/ and from logbooks etc, but the real stories are what make people understand what it was really like. It is not easy to get such details from my grandfather, so it is imperative that we get as much real history as possible in print or on the net.

The Adjutant
28th Aug 2008, 14:02
Jonathon68

Please check your PM's

threeputt
28th Aug 2008, 15:48
Hope you don't mind me barging in with some "my Dad's better than your Dad" stuff but, for comparison, my father (180272, Cpl Derek George Threeputt) went solo on Sept 4th 1943, after 8 hrs and 50 mins, in a DH 82 (R 4899), whilst at 4 EFTS at Brough. His QFI was a Fg Off Copeland and his pre-solo was done by Fg Off Patterson.

He went on, eventually, to advanced flying training in Canada and the USA at USNAS's Grosse Isle and Lambert Field, USNATC Pensacola and USNAS's Saufley Field and Whiting Field.

As he was destined for PBY 2/5 Catalinas he had to complete the Air Navigators certificate (second class) in Canada at No1 R&N, S Summerside Prince Edward Island.

3P:ok:

cliffnemo
28th Aug 2008, 16:24
Threeput please barge in again. Your father after graduating at Pensacola, was one of the few R.A.F bods who were awarded both R.A.F and American wings, and entitled to wear the American wings on his right chest.

It seems as if Warmtoast has the correct solution to the Q.G. H question, we were all right. He was using Q.G.H (controlled descent through cloud) in the fifties. Sometime after this, it must have been deleted from the Q code so it no longer exists. An electronic glide path ?


To answer Chugalug, Darr School was the name of the airfield, but in effect it was a R.A.F station under lease-lend, with a C.O , adjutant , and maybe one or two other officers . Can’t remember. These officers were in charge, and we were still subject to K.Rs, (Kings) S.R.Os etc. All other staff were civilians, but it was best to obey the flying instructors, We did have a “very short leash” but nevertheless I cannot remember any one being put on a fizzer. Too much was at stake we were there to learn , and return to the U.K. to get in our spitfires, and destroy M.E 109s . (some chance). We did have a half hearted enquiry after an A.T 6, one night with landing lamps on, flew down the local railway line , towards a train. The train driver did an emergency stop, and reported it to the police. Surprisingly no one would own up to it, and as other aircraft were in the air at the time the matter was dropped. We were informed the American cadets were put on our course, so that the army air corps could compare training methods and results.

To bravo lima In “Thlandidno“, Can’t remember discussing the “color “ prob discussions at Moncton, but can remember that horrible film in the camp cinema showing the effect of certain diseases. Memories of Astra cinemas , and that oft repeated film, Robert Donat in The thirty nine steps. By the time the war ended we could have acted any part of it,

Johnathon68 your contribution was far from boring. In fact very interesting. I suspect there are one or two old codgers on here ,like me, who’s minds wander off to times gone by when people like you mention Brough, East Riding (Blackburn Aircraft Ltd, Beverley, Bucaneer, Skua), Uxbridge, target towing ( brings back memories of towing a drogue behind a Lanc on a long rope so that “tail end Charlie” could practice firing) , the remaining bits of rope came in useful . We used the remaining bits to tow the crew back from the local pub, in Gainsboro. Well six crew at least. Three on the motorbike and three on the towed push bike, providing it had a backstep.
Was your father from the Republic of the East Riding.? May tell the tale of another Sqdn Ldr ex Brough about the same time as your grandfather, whose famous mess trick was to stand on his head, swallow a raw egg, and then drink a pint of beer.

Better get back on thread, where we should be changing back from American K.Ds to R.A.F uniforms,Irvine jackets and trousers, due to the weather becoming colder.
P.S my spell checker doesn't like the word backstep. Two long tubes , screwed on to the back spindle of a bike, rear gunners for the use of.

Sailor Vee
28th Aug 2008, 19:42
How about explaining " violet picture homing" to some of us impecunious oldiesThe VP homing is based on an indicator which shows a deflection either left or right, you ask ATC to transmit for a '5 second homing' and turn to get the needle in the centre of the display, repeating as required.

Once in the overhead the needle goes off the scale.

You then fly an outbound QDM following the same procedure, descending as required 'for a specified time' then carry out a 'procedural turn' to achieve an inbound QDM, again on ATC broadcasts, still descending to Minimum Approach Altitude/Height, until the overhead is reached or visual for an approach and landing.

Cliff, having reviewed the above, it looks as if I was still doing your type of instrument approach in the 70s!!

Fareastdriver
29th Aug 2008, 12:12
Cliffnemo.

I have finally tracked down a beam approach procedure in writing. It’s for a Halifax but I am sure that a Lancaster would have been the same.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/scan0003.jpg
Looking at that the modern equivalent of decision height would have been 100 ft.

My father once explained to me the ‘Timed Circuit’. This was a procedure to get his Halifax on to the runway when there was a sheet of low stratus over the airfield, especially at St.Eval or Brawdy.

You would be homed on to the airfield using a manual homer so that you were approximately on the runway heading and when they heard you coming they would fire a ‘porker’, a parachute flare, vertically upwards from the tower. Seeing this above the cloud you would aim to just miss it and as you passed it you turned downwind on the runway reciprocal heading using about 30 degrees of bank. Rolling out you would fly for one minute dropping the Dunlops etc and at the end of that you would do a descending turn using 25 degrees of bank so as to keep the radius of turn the same. If everything worked out you would be pointing on the runway heading with the flare gasping its last in front of you. You then descended into the murk At about 2-300 feet you could pick out the wreckage from the people who had tried it before and then you followed that to the runway.
I tried it a few times in the early sixties, not for real, but it worked out every time.

My father’s biggest claim to fame was that he changed the date of D Day. He was on 517 (Met) Sqn. On June 1/2 1944 he did a special weather reconnaissance flight off Western Europe and as a result of this the decision was made to postpone the Normandy Invasion by 24 hours.

exscribbler
29th Aug 2008, 19:21
If the rear AG used the backstep, did the WAAF get a croggy? :ok:

Chugalug2
29th Aug 2008, 20:13
Cliff, thanks for the explanation of the RAF presence at Darr School. One is never alone with KRs (or QRs) is one? I hope that I didn't imply that you and your fellow trainees were anything other than paragons of virtue, well the cutting that you posted testifies to that. :)
Regarding Violet Picture, its use as an Approach or En-Route aid as described by others wasn't used per se by myself while on Hastings. However it was tied into the UHF T/R, by selecting ADF. If the recvr was tuned to Guard (243) then it became a means to home in on a Sarbe emergency beacon, and it was SOP to have this combination selected especially for Sea Transit. The result when flying from Changi to Hong Kong was that the needle was hard over on the LH stop for the mid part of the leg. This was the 60's and the Vietnam War. If you monitored the "chatter" you had to feel for anyone who had banged out trying to make themselves heard above the din. Southbound of course the RH stop took the strain. Although mercifully I never witnessed a Sarbe Homing, I imagine in more tranquil airspace it would work well. What was less certain was the procedure without a serviceable ARI 18120, ie Violet Picture (OK I'm reading the notes). "The position or time of receiving the first signal and that of losing the signal should be noted. The aircraft should then return to the central position midway between these points and then turn 90 degrees. If the signal fades the beacon is then astern. Fly reciprocal track and the signal strength should increase. The O/H position should be indicated by a sudden decrease in signal strength. Reduction of aircraft height will narrow the cone of silence and the aircraft should then be well within visual range of other location aids" to which one might add "I'm sure it will give you years of satisfactory service, Sir" Did anyone do such a homing or hear of one that ended in success? I guess you'd just keep on trying to home until the fuel got far too low or the beacon tx stopped, and of course do the MAYDAY Relay bit to get ATC to relieve you with someone better equipped!

cliffnemo
1st Sep 2008, 16:38
Yes Fareast driver, your S,B.A is much the same as for a Lancaster. However it must be an early version as the airspeed is in M.P.H . all the Air speed indicators were changed to register knots. This made it easier for the navigator, as you will know, who stepped off nautical miles using the vertical scale on the side of his Mercator charts . The flight engineer called out those speeds when on the final approach. On over shoot it would be full power, wheels up. Flap in by five. My oppo, of Halifax Elvington fame will be very interested to receive a copy of this.

Exscibbler - I am claiming the fifth amendment when it comes to W.A.A.Fs. Not going to tell the one about the W.A.A.F who got a crossbar lift on a bike , and then found out it was a ladies bike.

Chugalug. Yes paragons of virtue. Until V.J day, when things changed somewhat. First I would like to point out that at any time, personal possessions , money. kit ,could be left lying about and would still be there on return. However after V.J day particularly in Germany , the black market ruled. If this blog goes on long enough, I may tell how a certain W/O (no names no pack drill) ,took, once a week, 20 rolls of blankets to the laundry in Belsen concentration camp ..but only returned with 19. Also how a roll of blankets was worth a barrel of full strength lager at the brewery in Schleswig Holstein. That Bedford troop carrier, borrowed from the M.T section, fuelled by the equipment section, proved to be very useful.

Sorry , folks, I got carried away. Back to flying.

In November , we changed from Ameican K.Ds into our R.A.F blue uniform as the weather was becoming colder especially at night. Lessons in the air and in the classrooms carried on as before. In the air we were being instructed in aerobatics. On my first lesson Mr C only demonstrated the various manoeuvres, and did not allow me to practice. So the next time I flew solo, I thought I would try a loop. I put the aircraft into a steep dive, then pulled the stick back. The first effect was that I lost my vision, and could only see a black mist, after which, I passed out. I must have released the stick, when I regained consciousness , and found myself in a stall. I recovered from the stall, and decided it would be advisable to wait for further instruction. We flew on one or two navigation exercises , plotting our courses ,and using topographical maps. Practiced overshoot procedures, and practiced and practiced the previous exercises. I flew fifteen hours dual, and sixteen hours solo that month, but for some forgotten reason no night flying.

In the classroom we learned such things as,the mean sea level standard barometric pressure was 1013 millibars , and this fell 3mb per 1000 ft. We studied astro navigation, and the use of the mark 1X A bubble sextant. I attach a picture of a page in my exercise book to show , despite the antiquated methods we had available ,how much we had to learn. In the official Pilots notes of that time it stated that pilots should be capable of navigating in the event of the nav being injured. It didn’t say who flew the aircraft , George ? (The Honeywell auto pilot) when he was in the nav’s position .http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/bluecoat065.jpg

Union Jack
1st Sep 2008, 16:47
Cliff (if I may)

What wonderful recall you have with your marvellous memories, not to mention what must be the understatement of the week:

"I must have released the stick, when I regained consciousness, and found myself in a stall. I recovered from the stall, and decided it would be advisable to wait for further instruction"!

Jack

cliffnemo
2nd Sep 2008, 16:34
I have just found a poem amongst my notes,

I apologise for posting this now , and will return to training in December next.
Although this will be seen as sloppy by some, it does prove our relationship with the locals was rather unique.
This was written by an American near another B.F.T.S..

He stood there talking to us
As he waited for the train;
He was leaving us forever
And would never come again.
He was going home to England
To protect his native land;
He was leaving friends behind him
Who had offered him a hand.
But he knew our hearts went with him
And his youthful eyes were wet,
And we never shall forget him,
Out little RAF cadet

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/leavingcamp070.jpg
Pic of our course leaving Darr school. Note enamel one pint standard issue mug. The smoker is me.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/leavingrlystn071.jpg
Poncans saying goodbye, at Ponca "railroad" station

cliffnemo
3rd Sep 2008, 11:07
Sorry folks. I missed a comma out on post above.
Should read "Will return to, training in December ,,,,,,,,,,next.
Cliff

cliffnemo
4th Sep 2008, 10:55
Soldier is refused room at hotel
Corporal Tomos Stringer
Corporal Tomos Stringer was out of uniform when tried to book a room

A soldier home on leave after being injured in Afghanistan was refused a room by a hotel when he showed his military ID card at reception.

Corporal Tomos Stringer, 23, from Gwynedd, was visiting a wounded colleague in Surrey when he was turned away from the Metro Hotel in Woking.

He spent the night in his car after being told it was management policy not to accept military personnel.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I AM INCENSED BY THIS REPORT I HAVE JUST READ ON THE NET, AND HE WASN'T EVEN IN UNIFORM.

I have emailed his M.P. and complained. It is a pity he doesn't have time to read this blog and learn how American service men are treated and respected.

IT'S TOMMY THIS AND TOMMY THAT, AND TOMMY
YOU'RE A FOOL,
BUT IT'S THANK YOU MR ATKINS WHEN THE TROOP SHIP IS IN THE POOL.

brakedwell
4th Sep 2008, 11:39
I don't think he missed much if this Trip Advisor Review is anything to go by!

“The worst hotel ever!!!!”
hovinko
london
Aug 13, 2008

The worst hotel I've ever stayed. The room wasn't ready-just 2 beds instead of 3. Then single room had used towels. We didn't get any breakfast but they charged it and on top of that they were saying we used the telephone even though we were not in the room!!!! And they charged us extra 80 pounds!!!! more

cliffnemo
4th Sep 2008, 14:35
Hi Breakdwell.
I'm pleased some one is interested. How about some of you servicemen emailing Hywell at his address below.?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks for bringing this matter to our attention. Plaid Cymru MP for Caernarfon Hywel Williams has already acted on the matter;



Hywel Williams MP said he intended to take the matter further when he had a reply to his letter to the hotel.

He said: "I was astonished when I heard the story from Mrs Stringer. I can't see why any hotel would want to refuse accommodation to a serving member of the armed forces anyway.

"Tomos was not in his uniform, he was a traveller like anyone else."





I refer you to a BBC story on the matter (BBC NEWS | Wales | Soldier is refused room at hotel (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7596798.stm) )and, If you require any further information to contact Hywel Williams’ office in Caernarfon.



[email protected] (Hywel’s e-mail address)



Hywel Williams

8 Stryd y Castell,

Caernarfon,

Gwynedd,

LL55 1SE

brakedwell
4th Sep 2008, 14:40
Cliff, there is a very active thread running on this subject.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/341851-country-fit-heroes.html

threeputt
6th Sep 2008, 10:06
Cliff, yes you are quite correct, Dad did wear two sets of wings until he was demobbed. When he rejoined, some time later, on a permanent commission he was told that he was not allowed to any more. So you see we have had spoilsports in the RAF/War Office/MOD for years; a bit like the Gulf War medal situation, rotten sods one and all!

I'll try and dig out a photo of the old man in his battledress.

3P:ok:

cliffnemo
6th Sep 2008, 16:39
By November , the weather was becoming colder, so we changed into our standard R.A.F uniforms complete with collar and black tie , and a bit later, wore our greatcoats and woollen gloves. We considered our uniforms inferior, but warmer than our American friends, but I was quite surprised when traveling on a bus, away from Ponca. A lady sat down next to me and said “ Gee, that’s a smart uniform, are you a mail carrier or something ? When I said I was in the R.A.F. it was question after question all the way. For the jokers amongst you. No. She was a very mature lady. At least thirty years old, and got off the bus telling all and sundry how it was the smartest uniform she had ever seen.

Flying continued with more navigation cross country exercises. One of these was with Hardy navigating and me flying . By this time I had developed my own method of landing when solo. Instead of throttling back at the correct point , and gliding in, to touch down accurately just inside the boundary without touching the throttle I found an easier method. .This involved approaching on the base, and final leg using the throttle to regulate my height,. When near touch down I would have a bit of throttle on, and be a bit higher than usual, then slowly pull back the throttle , when the aircraft would gently sink onto the ground. Producing a nice wheel landing. On this occasion, and after a very pleasant three hundred mile exercise we approached the airfield, just about to touch down Hardy said “you are too high.” and pushed his stick forward, I replied “no I am not” and pulled mine back. Whilst this discussion progressed, the A.T.6 landed without help from either of us, tipped over on one wing and performed the classic ground loop. We were told we were very naughty boys, and not to do it again. But I decided I would never try to correct another pilots actions in the future. This decision resulted in another faux pas during a two thousand mile final cross country exam. (more later warts and all).

One of our oppos was the son of Lord X and told us , one night in the billets, he had performed a slow roll at 1000’ although we had as yet to perform this manoeuvre . Not to be outdone, I decided to try it the next day. Fortunately I tried it at three thousand feet, when I checked my altimeter I found I had lost a thousand feet. I decided to wait for instruction and after a few attempts managed .to .maintain altitude, and roll round a horizontal axis.

` Lectures continued whenever we were not flying but with emphasis on air to ground , air to air , fixed gunnery. Plus attack and evasion, when it was pointed out that pilots instinctly broke away to the left when being pursued, so break away to the right. Also to attack down sun and up moon. We were told we would shortly be flying, using a camera, and the 100 m.p.h reflector gun sight.

I will attempt to reproduce my brief notes below to give you some idea of what was involved, but must point out these are brief, where each line represents , some considerable explanation and discussion Constant questions on enemy aircraft wing spans. Max speeds , how many gun sight rings for different speeds .gravity drop., wing span, and angle off.

Hope to go onto night flying training when I have recovered.


GONE FOR A BURTON.

A.K.A K.I.A`

I have just found out I can increase print size by thumping CTRL + When viewing this.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/GUNNERY71071.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/REFLECTOR070.jpg

cliffnemo
7th Sep 2008, 10:11
I'll try and dig out a photo of the old man in his battledress.
THREE PUTT.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes please, Threeput. Hope it shows the Acme whistle attached to top fastener. Issue B.D was for flying only and was choker neck, but some comedians after V.J day had them tailored . Lapels and reveres were attached , still with whistle, and worn off camp, and even the S.Ps didn't care

cliffnemo
8th Sep 2008, 16:28
Yes I am as dim as a Tock H lamp. In an effort to delete unnecessary items from my computer I deleted some of my photos ins Photobucket . Surprise ,surprise, they also disappeared off Pprune. I now realize each time I log on to Pprune they must download from Photobucket. Will now have to scan to Picasa2, then to photo shop. then to Photobucket , then to Pprune . Phew.

Oh well, easy come, easy go.

Will put Jack's picture of the Mossy back on first

Chugalug2
8th Sep 2008, 20:04
Will now have to scan to Picasa2, then to photo shop. then to Photobucket , then to Pprune . Phew.


You took the very words out of my mouth, Cliff. As if! :}
Seriously, the way you have tackled every possible posting technique to fully illustrate an already captivating tale is simply the icing on a very tasty cake. If button 'B' gets pushed occasionally by mistake, never mind. At least you didn't "black out" this time!:) Thank you for your effort.
Keep pushing the boundaries please and keep regaling us with your story.
Respects,
Chug

cliffnemo
10th Sep 2008, 15:39
I spent most of yesterday trying to produce a photograph of Jack's (ex 6 B.F.T.S) mosquito. So far the photo below is the biggest I can produce. Most of the photos lost are bigger to begin with so should be reproduced O.K. Photobucket only will only reduce size and not increase it. Will leave the photo exercise for a day or two and continue with the story.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/BILLSMOSSY_edited.jpg