Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

[Beagle-eye]

tow

I have become completely hooked on Peter's notes.

My brother-in-laws father flew Spitfires and then Typhoons with 184 squadron. The more I find out about what he did the more I am in awe of him. As with all people of his generation he continuously plays down his role.

I am sure that he shared many experiences with Peter and, I hope that you dont mind, but I am currently collating Peters notes to pass on to him. I am sure that it will bring back many memories.

Thanks tow/Peter.

B-E

[aw ditor]

Can understand completely concerns over supercharger gear changes. On both the RR' Griffon and the (Bristol) Hercules it was accompanied by a loud thump and an airframe vibration.

[Fareastdriver]

The difference in those days was that the loud thump could be a 20mm cannon shell.

[tow1709]

First can I add my best wishes for a speedy recovery to Reg. I found out that he was at the Liverpool Institute at the same time as my father. My dad was two or three years older, so they did not know each other. I think this school was also Paul McCartney's alma mater. TOW

Peter's story continues...

Another 'Noball' target on 14th March and then, on the 15th I was scheduled to take part in escort duty for another dive bombing operation not in HF-E, but flying HF-J. This was one of the few times that I turned back. Just after takeoff I realized that the aircraft was flying very left wing low. This was so bad that I was having to use considerable force to keep flying with wings level. This force becoming harder to hold as the airspeed increased. It would have been impossible to hold the aircraft during any high speed manoeuvres and I therefore turned back just after we crossed out over the English coast and the 'spare man' took over. I reported it as soon as I landed and the Flt/Sgt senior rigger decided to re-trim the ailerons himself. This re-trimming was somewhat crude since, as there was no manual lateral trimming device, the trim was effected by a small metal tab at the trailing edge of each aileron. If this was bent up it deflected the aileron down and thus tended to raise that wing.

Since I reported left wing low he bent the left wing tab up. Unfortunately he was a bit too enthusiastic and when I then flew an air test the aircraft was right wing low! It was very difficult for the ground staff to exactly judge the amount of trim needed since it was purely a subjective report on the part of the pilot and one pilot might say the aircraft was 'a bit' out of trim whereas another might fly the same aircraft and say it was 'a hell of a lot'. I duly reported this but I don't know if the next pilot had any trouble or not.

I never flew this particular aircraft again. In fact, for the next couple of weeks we all flew strange aircraft since, not only were we moved to Manston, but all our squadron aircraft were taken away for modification and we were flying aircraft lettered TP-, borrowed from 198 squadron.

My first operation from Manston was on 21st March when I flew No.3 to the C.O. on a 'Ranger' operation. We took off at dawn and headed out at low level across the North Sea towards Holland. The cloudbase was only about 1500 feet and, just before the Dutch coast, we started a battle climb to 20,000 feet. Almost immediately we were in cloud. Fortunately it was not too dense and it was fairly easy to maintain formation. Everything was going well until, still in cloud, we were passing about 10,000 feet. Suddenly my engine started running roughly and then cut completely.. A quick glance at the air temperature gauge and then at the wing leading edge told me the story. I was suffering from severe icing! I immediately switched on the carburettor heater, just before the C.O. called up and said 'All Bingo aircraft, switch on heaters, icing conditions." It was probably only ten or fifteen seconds before my engine started to pick up again but in the meantime I had lost a lot of airspeed and had to put the aircraft into a glide. As soon as the engine came back I resumed my climb but of course by then had lost sight of the aircraft on which I was formating. I continued the climb to 12000 ft but still had not reached clear air or seen any sign of the rest of the formation. There was only one sensible thing to do and that was to head back. I levelled off, still on instruments, and did a nice gentle 180 degree turn to head back home. I headed 270 degrees (West) and flew for about fifteen minutes until I was sure I was back over the North Sea. I then let down slowly, keeping a wary eye on the altimeter, waiting for the base of the cloud. At 2000ft I came out of cloud and looked down, expecting to see water. What I did see was a large city! Almost at the same moment I started to receive hostile attention from light AA. I whacked open the throttle and shot back up into the cloud. After a further few minutes I tried again and this time, sure enough, there was the sea. A quick look around to make sure that I was alone and I dived for the sea to keep below any unfriendly radar.

As I was not sure where I was, (I later worked out that I had come out of cloud right over the centre of Rotterdam), I then climbed up again to just below the cloud base and called up for a homing. I immediately received a very clear transmission from a station with an unfamiliar call sign which told me to steer 263 degrees. I was a bit suspicious of this so I fortunately ignored it. I continued steering 270 degrees and waited a further ten minutes. Trying again, I this time received a much weaker signal which told me to steer 274 degrees.

This I did and, after a further twenty minutes or so, saw the Kent coastline ahead. I called up Manston and told them 'I am flashing my weapon'. This was not as rude as it sounds since it was the code to tell them that I had turned on my IFF (Identification Friend and Foe) transmitter. This gave a special signal which appeared on the radar scopes and told the operators that I was friendly. Unfortunately it had no such effect on the coastal AA batteries, and, as I approached I was greeted by a hefty barrage of 20 and 40mm Flak.

Luckily the gunners were too enthusiastic and opened fire whilst I was still out of range which gave me a chance to turn parallel to the coast, waggle my wings and lower my undercarriage. This latter being a universal sign that the aircraft concerned was not hostile. The gunners responded correctly and, as I flew back over the coast I could see several of them waving to me! I landed back at Manston about an hour ahead of the remainder of the squadron. When they did return, I learned that my Flight Commander 'Pete' Raw had been shot down near Nijmegen and was missing

I reported the strange homing reply that I had received and was told that the Germans were occasionally trying to break in on our frequencies with misleading messages. Had I followed the course I was given I would probably have finished up running out of fuel over Belgium or Northern France This was the last operation from Manston and also the last operation I did in a bomber Typhoon. The squadron was posted from Manston to ThorneyIsland and our aircraft which had been taken away were now returned to us. They were no longer dive bombers, but were fitted with rocket rails! We were about to become 'RP' (Rocket Projectile) equipped.

[Icare9]

Had a chance to do some research on Napier engines today.
The Sabre, Rapier and Dagger were so named due to the proximity of the Wilkinson Sword factory in Acton.

It's also due to Napier that we have "British" Racing Green as it was their car winning the 1902 Gordon Bennett trophy in dark green paintwork that started the trend!

Don't mock, you may very well win a Quiz Night with that sort of info!!

[rmventuri]

Kevin,
Well lets see how much better your google skills are than mine. I got the ORB's from St. Eval and found that Doug and most of the the crew of HR732 at that time flying a Whitley in late April to late May 1943 on anti sub patrol (as previously mentioned with Fred). On each of their six Ops while at St. Eval actually had a crew of six (not five as one would expect). The sixth crew member listed as P/O Searle R.N. (however listed second in the crew listing so possibly a second pilot? - Pilot Sgt. Salvage was always listed first) and not part of HR732 when the rest of the crew was posted to Snaith. I am trying to find if R.N. Searle is still alive as it looks like he survived the war but cannot find any info on him?? A little off topic sorry. Google away

[rmventuri]

Message for Reg - I think we are all collectively holding our breath and waiting to massively exhale when you are back in the saddle. Speedy recovery.
Rodger

[fredjhh]

St Eval.
There was a bunch of pilots attached to 10 OTU who were destined for Coastal Command, and they flew as second pilots with the Whitley crews. They were listed second on the crew list. I flew one 'op' with a Sgt Watkins, one with P/O Chilton, one with P/O Davy and two with P/O Read. On two ten hour trips there was no second pilot available. On one of these "George" failed soon after take-off; we encountered the worst possible weather, and lost an engine on return. I slept for 20 hours and missed my day-off! fredjhh

[regle]

Thanks everyone to all the wellwishers. I am still undergoing a long testing time and even have a colonoscopy booked on Sunday! I am home with my youngest son (61!) looking after my shopping and transport. Am not very mobile but am getting around . I will keep you posted but am taking it very easy for the moment ( I have'nt any choice. ) All the very best, Reg

[Jobza Guddun]

Very best of good wishes with all that Reg. :ok:

[Icare9]

Rodger: Fred has answered your query better than I can. It's what I would have assumed, the training at St Eval was probably to condition the crews to long flights and an experienced pilot would be aboard to show them the ropes, teach them what they could and could not do whilst providing a useful deterrent to U boats, spotting survivors etc.

Pilot Officer Searle hasn't shown up on my searches yet, but as most of my links are Bomber Command related and looks as this chap was Coastal Command. I'll need to search in that area. I'm just hoping that the initials are R. N. and not an abbreviation for Royal Navy!! There was a Sgt R Searle 77 Sqdn PoW but that was in Oct 1943 and not likely that your chap would have been demoted.

It does look as if he survived the War as there is no R N Searle recorded in the CWGC Debt of Honour database. However, obviously in the intervening years, he may well be no longer with us. If I find anything, I'll let you know.

[26er]

Did the Navy have rating pilots at that time? If so could it refer to a "petty officer" who may well have been attached to a Coastal Command unit? I know the Navy were recruiting rating pilots in the late forties/early fifties.

[Icare9]

26er: I'm pretty sure it's the guys initials, but just covering the bases in case it meant something elsewhere!

I think the guy must have been in Coastal Command as I have pretty extensive Bomber Command sites searched without success. I have asked a Coastal Command guru if he has any info, similarly 10 OTU (Codes were JL@A etc....)

No trace so far in Flight Archives where I would have expected to find promotion details etc.. Still looking, but all help appreciated!

[fredjhh]

St. Eval.
Whitley Squadrons were taken off Bomber operations in 1942, and many Squadrons were move to Coastal Command airfields. 51 Squadron (for example) was moved to Chivenor until the end of the year, then reformed with Halifaxes at Snaith in January 1943.
10 OTU Detachment was a "one-off" compromise by Bomber Command when Coastal Command were insisting on more 'heavy' crews. Other Whitley OTUs also supplied crews to 10 OTU (SD). We had finished all training and normally would have been posted immediately to Bomber Squadrons. The majority of OTU crews were on Squadrons at the same time as those seconded to St. Eval.
The second pilots were newly trained pilots straight from SFTS or PAFU(s). They were not experienced pilots, had not flown any other than training aircraft, and were there merely for the ride, or to relief the captain if he wanted to stretch his legs.
When I finished my stint and returned to Bomber Command I found many of my OTU friends, who had gone directly to Squadrons, already missing or dead. fredjhh

[Out Of Trim]

Hi Regle. keep your chin up! - you have a lot of people wishing you all the best" We thank you for your Service..

Respect Sir! :ok:

[rmventuri]

Yes they are initials. The ORBs list the crew for each of their ops exactly as
Sgt. Salvage A.J
P/O Searle R.N.
Sgt. Baker F.J.
Sgt. Hampson M.
Sgt. Davies I.G.
Sgt. Milliken D.W

The ORB's are very good quality so no problem in guessing the spelling - they did typo the initials sometimes but Searle was always with initials R.N.

Thanks for your help

[Icare9]

Still no sign of RN Searle anywhere.... I'm puzzled that no reference found in Flight as that details promotions, so would have expected to find him as P/O and if any higher... no such luck. No response to request on Coastal, but always hopeful!!

Are the ORB's in electronic format? There are regular requests for ORBs for various units so if you feel like making them available for others to research, let me know....

[tow1709]

On 6th April [1944] I had my first flight in an 'RP' (Rocket Projectile) Typhoon, practising 30 degree dives on to a target in Poole harbour. Then, on the 11th April, the squadron was moved to Llanbedr in North Wales to undergo a ten day rocket firing course. The flight there was quite eventful since we were forced by weather to land at Weston Zoyland. This airfield had a particular runway that was very short, only some 850 yards, and as luck would have it this was the one in use that day. The C.O. warned us all by radio before we landed and told us that, if we did not touch down very near the start of the runway we were to open up and go round again. I managed to get down fairly shortly after crossing the boundary but all of us had difficulty stopping in time. In my case it resulted in the brakes overheating so badly that, just after I turned off the runway, there was a loud bang, the starboard wing dropped, and I swung sharply to the right. My starboard tyre had burst and I was stuck. The squadron managed to take off later in the day when the weather improved but I had to remain another day until a spare wheel was brought down (in a motorcycle and sidecar!) and fitted so that I could follow them. During this ten day course I flew several different aircraft but not 'my' HF-E since it was not returned modified with rocket rails until after the course was over.

It surprised me that some of the pilots were a bit worried as to what would happen when they fired their rockets, especially when firing a salvo of eight projectiles. It appeared that they were worried about recoil! We had been told that the effect of firing a salvo of rockets was the equivalent of a broadside from a light cruiser! This made some pilots think that they were going to experience the recoil equivalent to the firing of eight naval guns! Had this really been the case the aircraft would have fallen apart from the shock! In reality of course there was no recoil at all since, if anything, the rockets tried to pull the aircraft forward. They were held onto the guide rails by a short length of 16-SWG soft copper wire which was there to prevent them sliding off if the aircraft happened to get too nose-down. On firing, the copper wire broke, and the rocket released.

Each rocket consisted of a tube about four inches in diameter and about five feet long which contained the solid fuel motor. The fuel was a very fast burning, waxy looking piece of extruded plastic explosive, in the form of a cross. To the front end of this was screwed on the warhead which could be of several types. The most common was 60lb explosive but we also used 40lb armour piercing, 60lb phosphorus incendiary and even 40lb anti-personnel heads. These latter had a small propeller at the front. When fired the propeller rotated and unscrewed a thread which allowed a 3ft long telescopic probe to extend out of the front. This probe ensured that the explosive went off before the rocket buried itself in the ground and thus had the maximum blast effect. At the rear end of the motor tube were clipped on four fixed vanes, which were just flat steel plates which kept the missile straight in flight. The whole assembly was over six feet long and weighed some 150 pounds. It took two men to load each one on to its rails, which themselves were formed of twin aluminium tubes on which the rocket hung by means of a sort of twin 'coat-hanger' of thin steel strip.

The aiming of the rockets was much less haphazard than the aiming of the bombs. The reflector gunsight normally projected an orange image of a circle with a dot in the middle, bisected by a horizontal line with a break in the middle, on to the windscreen. The break in the horizontal line could be varied in width by adjusting a knurled ring below the sight. The idea being that you set it to give the apparent wingspan of the aircraft you were attacking at the optimum cannon range. In order to sight the rockets, the image had been turned 90 degrees so that the line with the break in the middle was vertical. Instead of aiming with the dot, you used the top of the lower half of the line as an aiming point and, by adjusting the gap and consequently the height of the tip of the bottom line, could adjust the site for various angles of dive - even down to zero angle for low level attacks. The trajectory of the rocket projectile was somewhat odd in that whilst the motor was firing, for about the first three seconds of its flight, the trajectory was practically level (relative to the attitude of the aircraft). As soon as the motor burnt out, the projectile followed a normal ballistic curve like a shell or a bullet. The trajectory therefore depended on the aircraft speed at the moment of firing. Whatever speed this was, the motor added another 600mph or so during its burning, so that the final speed at motor burn-out could be anything from about 800mph to over 1000mph.

Somehow I seemed to be able to judge the trajectory quite well and I gained a reputation as a 'Dead-Eye Dick' with RP's, thus redeeming my abysmal failure as an air-to-air cannon marksman. With eight rocket rails carrying eight rockets and sometimes also with long range tanks the performance of the Typhoon was sadly depleted except in the dive when the increase in speed was dramatic! Since 'my' aircraft had not yet been returned, when we were due to leave Llanbedr and return to the South coast, I was unlucky enough not to draw an aircraft and had to make the trip as a passenger in an Anson. As soon as we returned to Tangmere we were posted yet again. This time to Thorney Island where we were under canvas as a mobile 'airfield', obviously in preparation for the invasion of Europe, but of course with no idea when this would be.


[There is some youtube footage here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrdfbrwcuM8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrdfbrwcuM8) of rockets being assembled, loaded and fired. Note the black and white stripe paint scheme on the Typhoon wings. PB tells me this was done just before D-Day to aid in the identification of Allied aircraft. ==TOW]

[kookabat]

This is fantastic stuff. To date most of the work I've done has been looking into Bomber Command, so to hear something from that other part of the RAF is great.

Keep it up!!

[tow1709]

On the 23rd April 1944 I flew as a passenger again, this time in a Handley-Page 'Harrow', to Llanbedr to pick up one of our aircraft which had been left behind for repair.

Unfortunately, due to lack of communication, I arrived only to find that the aircraft was not ready and would not be for some time. On contacting my squadron C.O. by telephone he told me to return with the 'Harrow' which had gone up to collect all the ground support equipment such as the 'Ops room', adjutant’s office, etc.

I went to the mess and had lunch whilst the aircraft was loaded and when I returned I found that I was to sit in a deck-chair in a small space left in the fuselage between the loaded goods. When I was installed I could not see out and it was fairly dark. I decided that, once we were airborne, the only thing I could do would be to try to sleep! We trundled out to the end of the runway, turned into wind and the pilot opened up for take-off. The noise and vibration were terrific. It was like being inside a kettle drum. After what seemed ages the rumbling of the wheels ceased and we were airborne. However the vibration continued at the same level since the pilot didn't throttle back for what again seemed a long time. Eventually the note of the engines reduced and conditions became more bearable.

It took over 1½ hours to reach Thorney Island and, when we did, the landing was very heavy. When we stopped taxiing, I had to wait a few minutes until somebody opened up the door to let me out. I found the pilot and his navigator, looking very harassed and worn, remonstrating with the Flight Sergeant 'Ops'. The poor man had no responsibility for what had happened but he was the nearest person on whom the aircrew could unload their troubles.

It appeared that nobody had bothered to make any calculations as to the weight and balance of all the stuff which had to be moved and it had just been loaded, willy-nilly onto the aircraft. The net result was that the 'Harrow' was overloaded to at least 150% if not more! The pilot had only just managed to get airborne at Llanbedr where, fortunately, the runway finished at the shore line with no obstructions. It had taken him almost half way to Ireland to reach 1000 feet and feel safe enough to turn! On landing at ThorneyIsland he had crossed the fence at well above stalling speed, cut the throttles, and literally fallen out of the air onto the runway.

That was one pilot who would never, ever, take the loading of his aircraft on trust again. Luckily I was in blissful ignorance of what was happening so had not been worried at all.

The next day, April 24th, I took part in my first operational sortie as a rocket-firing Typhoon pilot. This was an attack on a railroad bridge near Carenten on the Cherbourg peninsula. As was often the case, the operation was aborted due to cloud over the target area and we returned. The most noticeable difference between this first rocket show and a dive bombing op was that we did not jettison our armament but landed back with the rockets still on the rails. Once we were re-equipped with the rockets, we had to abandon our 'quickie' method of getting all the aircraft into the dive since, when the rockets were fired they shot ahead of the aircraft. Consequently you had to leave enough space between the attacking aircraft to allow the first man to get out of the way before the second had to fire his rockets. Thus we resumed our 'echelon' formation prior to diving. This was not so bad now since we were mainly diving at only 30 degrees or flying in at low level and therefore presented a more difficult moving target than when diving steeply.

April 27th 1944 saw my first successful RP operation when the squadron attacked the railway viaduct at Merville near St. Omer. The operation was very successful with very little flak. However my aircraft suffered damage to the leading edge of the starboard wing. When I landed I found a hole about six inches in diameter in the leading edge just outboard of the 'cranked' position the skin had been smashed inwards as far as the main spar and the inside of the wing was coated with a mess of blood, bone and feathers. I had obviously hit quite a large bird and from the speed of the impact it seemed probable that this had happened during the dive on the target. I had not even noticed the impact.

A couple of days later we were back on the 'Noball' run, this time an early morning show on a site in the forest, south of Morlaix. We experienced both heavy and light AA fire but nobody was hit and we put all our rockets in the target area. We were on squadron stand-by in the afternoon and, during my one hour stint, we were 'scrambled'. During squadron stand-by we took it in turns for two aircraft to sit at the take-off end of the runway. We sat just off the runway on the grass, strapped into the cockpit with the hood open and each with a ground staff chap standing by with a fire extinguisher. (This being mandatory whenever a Typhoon was started.) We started the engine every 15 minutes so that it was warm and we could take off quickly. The signal from the control tower was a red Verey light.

The NAAFI wagon came round and my 'fireman' obtained me a 'char and a wad' on the promise of payment as soon as I was released from standby. I had just taken my first bite of the cake and was about to sip my tea when the red light went up from the control tower! The wad went one way, the cup went the other, and twenty seconds later I was airborne. We were given various vectors to fly but did not find anything and after half an hour were recalled. I then had to make sure that I found my 'fireman' ground crewman and pay him for the tea and cake which I had had to throw away.

Another couple of days off and then, in the evening of 2nd May, I made my first flight in a Typhoon whilst not completely sober! It was about 6.30 pm and a few of us were in the bar. I had had a couple of pints and was looking forward to dinner when the C.O. came in and asked for volunteers for an Air-Sea rescue search. F/O Glenn had ditched on the way back from France about fifteen minutes earlier. There was no lack of volunteers and it just happened that I was nearest the door and the C.O. chose me and two others to make up the four. It wasn't until I was half way down the runway on take-off that I realised that I really shouldn't be in control of an aircraft! I felt completely over-confident but was having a little difficulty in keeping straight! This was first time since my elementary flying school days.

I decided that the best thing I could do would be to go onto full oxygen to try to sober up. I did this and it had the desired effect except that I then had an immediate hang-over! We flew round over the area where F/O Glenn had ditched for over an hour but none of us saw anything and we had to give up the search as it was getting dark. Sadly, he was not found. By the time we got back I was feeling more normal and my landing was no worse, or better, than usual. The experience was however worth it, in that I made sure that in future I never had a drink if I thought there was any likelihood of being called upon to fly within twelve hours.

Next day I took part in a 30 degree dive RP attack on the railway marshalling yards at Formerie south-east of Dieppe. For some reason we did not see any flak. Perhaps there was but they were not using tracer. In any case we had a very easy run and could concentrate on picking targets. The C.O. told us that, if we had a choice, to go for freight rolling stock and concentrations of track points in order to disrupt operations as much as possible. We were not to attack locomotives since they would almost certainly be driven by Frenchmen and our job did not include killing our allies. Later on, when we were doing armed recco shows, we were told always to first make a dummy attack to give the crews time to stop and jump off before their trains were blown up! On this occasion however I had plenty of time to pick my target and chose a long freight train that was just moving out northwards. I dived at an angle of about 30 degrees and across the train at about 45 degrees. I aimed very carefully for the third wagon behind the loco and fired a salvo of eight rockets. I pulled up and to the right and then banked sharply left so that I could look back down at the train. It must have been going much faster than I estimated. The locomotive and two wagons were by now well away from the explosion but the remainder of the train was continuing to pile up into the wreckage of the wagons and rails that I had hit. Several other trains were derailed or on fire and, at one end of the yard, where the rails came together there was a large cratered area where the points had been. Altogether it was a very satisfactory show.


More soon ==TOW

[Icare9]

Name: GLENN, NEVILLE TAYLOR
Initials: N T
Nationality: Australian
Rank: Flying Officer
Regiment/Service: Royal Australian Air Force
Age: 28
Date of Death: 02/05/1944
Service No: 420741
Additional information: Son Of Samuel and Stella Glenn; husband of Olive Isabel Helen Glenn, of Dee Why, New South Wales, Australia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 257.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

Was there any reason why RAAF aiircrew do not show the RAF Sqdn they were attached to? Most (if not all) RCAF crew are shown with the Squadron Number followed by RAF in brackets (unless at an OTU etc).... just not always easy to track all the crew of an aircraft unless the Names are provided.....

[raguoC]

Periodically I check the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight website. Today I discovered that they have a link to some very interesting footage that has recently been placed on You Tube: one in particular shows a video of the interior of a Chipmunk. Further links show some amazing footage of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight that was taken this month. There are also several interesting videos of a Lancaster in the Derwent Valley during a flypast/reconstruction of the training that took place prior to the bombing of the Ruhr Valley dams (RAF Squadron 617). I have just realised that the actual raid took place in the middle of May 1943. Please bear in mind that some of the footage is very good, others quite amateurish. However it is there for all to share for which I am grateful. I hope you enjoy having a look at what is freely available to view. As I have stated previously, I am grateful that the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight keeps warm the memory of those who fought so that we could know the true meaning of democracy and freedom that many people throughout the world still strive to experience.

[rmventuri]

Kevin yes I will freely share any ORB's. I have Snaith 51 squadron from July 4, 1943 to Dec 4, 1943 (electronic format) and St Eval 10 OTU detachment April/May 1943 (hard copy - I'll try to scan in the future but paper size is very large).

[Wander00]

RMventuri - ORBs. Are these available on-line or only to see at Kew. I have a particular interest in guest lists to mess functions at Watton 66-69. I discovered that my birth mother lived at Necton (right under the right turn at 500 ft on climb-out) and that as Chairman of the Parish Council and Vice-Chairman of the District Council she may have been invited to events like the BoB Cocktail Party, and we may therefore have been at the same functions without realising it.

[rmventuri]

Wander00, I have someone recommended by the 51 squadron historian to pull records for me from Kew as he is knowlegable on how Kew organizes the info - if you are interested I can send you a pm with is contact info as I am by no means an expert on this. On occassion I have also done online searches using the kew website and some documents can be down loaded for a per page fee (many documents are still at kew in hardcopy or microfiche only). For example I found a two page combat report that my uncle prepared when they were engaged with an ME109 on the Peenemundee raid and successfully down loaded it - its hit and miss on the quality of the downloaded document (in my case pg 2 is unreadable). Let me know

[regle]

Sabena formed a new sector of London and all the main Mid Eastern destinations. It would mean considerably more time at home as the flights would be shorter. I was one of the Pilots selected to start the sector in the spring of 1972. One of the more attractive flights was the one to Tel Aviv, in Israel. This left Brussels around midday, stopped at Vienna and then continued to Tel Aviv arriving at six in the evening. The crew were always well looked after at the Dan Hotel where they gave us a really nice dinner in the evening. We would leave the next morning at 07.30. May 6th. was a Saturday and it was Cup Final day and I had asked for the day off to watch it on T.V. This was granted and I was made "Reserve" on Monday May 8th. my fiftieth birthday. Dora was most upset over this. "You know that you are sure to be called out " She said "and now you are sure to be flying on your fiftieth birthday. " Sure enough, late on Saturday evening I was called by the "Roles" and told that I was needed to take the Tel Aviv flight on Monday morning. I quickly rang my Chief pilot and explained the situation to him and asked for a ticket for Dora to accompany me on Monday. As always, in Sabena, families were really looked after and I was told that I could collect the ticket before my flight on Monday. I then told her "Now we can celebrate my fiftieth birthday together in Tel Aviv". "It's silly to go all that way for one night." she replied but I could see that she was pleased.
Monday, May 8th. 1972 was a beautiful sunny day in Brussels. I put Dora on board OO-SJG before the passengers and then went back to the airport to phone my youngest daughter to let her know that Dora was definitely going as there was always an uncertainty with free tickets. As I was walking back to the plane down the walkway a very pretty girl passed me and gave me a dazzling smile. I thought "Well I'm fifty years old today but pretty girls still smile at me". As I was getting on board I saw that two of our friends from the Brussels Cricket Club were embarking and I told them that Dora was on board. They told me that they were only going to Vienna but were able to sit next to her.
The flight to Vienna was absolutely uneventful and the weather was glorious all the way. I said goodbye to my two pals from the Cricket Club and we took off for the long flight to Tel Aviv. I climbed to 33,000 ft. and the weather was fine with wonderful visibility. We had just passed over the city of Sarajevo which was the scene of the event that triggered the First World War when I heard a scream from behind me at the entrance to the cockpit. One of the Stewardesses had been pushed to the floor and two men, obviously Arabic, burst into the cockpit. One held a pistol to my head and the other pulled the pin from the grenade that he was holding and threw it (the pin) on the floor. They were both in a highly nervous state and the hand holding the pistol was shaking violently. "You go to Lod" they were shouting. My only thoughts were "How do I calm them down". ............ And I am going to leave you there until I am certain that you want me to continue on this thread because I am conviced that the experience I gained "gaining a pilot's brevet in WW2" had a lot to do with the outcome . My sincere thanks for all the good wishes and letters that I have received. I am very aware of your thoughts, Regle

[Icare9]

Blimey! What a comeback post!!
This is even worse than when a kid at the Saturday matinee at the cinema!!
Talk about Cliff hanger!!
Speaking of which, come in Cliff, haven't heard from you for a while.... everything alright?

[forget]

............ And I am going to leave you there until I am certain that you want me to continue on this thread

Err, Yes! And welcome back.:ok:

[kevmusic]

Pilot, author, raconteur and now........master of internet theatre! Welcome back, Reg! You know your audience awaits! :D

[boguing]

Brilliant.

And I heard the pin drop. Plink.

[brakedwell]

Best news for a long time. :ok::ok:

[ACW418]

Great to see you back Reg - but I hate suspenses. Please lets have the rest!

ACW

[thegypsy]

Perhaps he corkscrewed the aircraft?

[Madbob]

Not even Herge's "Adventures of Tintin" could compete with this thread! Regle, are you certain you were not his ghost-writer?

MB

[regle]

Just to let you all know that I am summoning up energy to continue and hope to keep up the suspense with a further instalment very soon. I can tell you that the waiting will not seem half as long as it was on board the aeroplane. Thank you for all the very flattering comments. I really appreciate it. I am still in a sort of limbo awaiting results, Reg

[regle]

.......the Walrus said, "to talk of many things; of ships and shoes and sealing wax, of hi-jacking and things". First of all, Madbob , Herge indeed, ! I was fortunate enough to inherit the mentor of Alistair Cook. Alistair Cook was the "Voice of America" and made broadcasting an art with his simple" man to man "method of his weekly news from America. I went to the same Blackpool Grammar school but many years after him and his Tutor, Bill Curnow, never tired of extolling the virtues of his erstwhile pupil. What has always stuck in my mind was his advice to us all "When writing, try to imagine that you are in a cosy study and have just finished a splendid meal and you are having an interesting discussion with your best friend then just let your pen flow ." I can't always vouch for the splendid meal and my study is what my late wife, Dora, always called the "Glory Hole" but I do my best. So here goes.... Lod is a small village and was the old name for the airport at Tel Aviv, now named Ben Gurion ,after the first Prime Minister of Israel. " We are going to Lod" I said and incongruously the current joke flashed through my mind about the American on a flight to Miami who had hijacked the plane and said "you got to Miami" because the last three flights he had been on had finished up in Cuba. A tattered page from "Jeppeson" with an approach map to Tel Aviv was thrust in my hand. "Yes , I am going to Lod" I kept repeating and this seemed to please them because they began to search for the pin from the grenade which the younger of the two was still holding very firmly. During this time the First officer managed to get a message to an Air France aircraft that we had been hijacked. When the Air France tried to call us up a Swissair plane quickly cut in and said that the message had been received and understood and that base would be informed.

I managed to calm the man holding the pistol to my head and pointed out the danger of the grenade to us all. The younger man holding the grenade was obviously complaining, in Arabic, that his hand was very tired of holding the lever against the pressure of the spring. Despite a frantic search it was never found and eventually our Flight Engineer found some strong wire in his tool box and, under tremendous stress ,meticulously bound it around the grenade and the lever , slowly withdrawing the fingers one at a time. I did my utmost, later, to get his bravery and skill recognised but it was a hopeless task. No one seemed to want to even believe it possible.

The two men were very different in appearance and character. The eldest, the man holding the pistol to my head, was in his mid thirties , seemed more moderate and open to reasoning. He opened the chamber to show me that the pistol was loaded. They both spoke English badly but French reasonably so that was the language that was used. We had in the cockpit the Chief Flight Engineer who was checking our Flight Engineer. He, as it happened spoke Arabic fluently and was foolish enough to let them know this and was promptly bundled out of the cockpit to the back of the plane. He could have been of invaluable assistance to me had he kept quiet.

Soon two young , good looking girls came into the cockpit. Sure enough, one of them was the pretty girl who had flashed a smile to me at Brussels. At the command of the eldest man , they opened the tops of their blouses to show me the two bare wires protruding. In mock display they mimed the result of touching the two wires together and I could see batteries stuck in their brassieres. They opened two Samsonite beauty cases and lifted the tray to show plastic bags taped below. We learned later that the bags contained Semtex and that it was the first time that it had been put to such a use in a Hijack. ( Yes ,Gypsy, corkscrewing had flashed through my mind but was rapidly discarded with all the possibilities that could happen in mind).

I seemed to be seeing the whole scenario as though my mind had detached itself from my body and I was looking at the cockpit from above.. I had even said to myself " I am responsible for the lives of everyone on board and these people are not going to get away with this so don't do anything foolish. Think, think, think. !
I reasoned to myself that the message to Brussels would be rapidly passed to Israel and that the longer that the flight took, the better prepared would be the ground authorities and the Defence forces that I knew would be summoned. My heart had sunk when I heard the demand to go to Israel as I knew that I was dealing with a suicide mission. The Israelis, I knew ,would never surrender to blackmail. Had another country been selected there would have been room for negotiation. I therefore throttled back the aeroplane as much as I could and reduced the speed to the bare minimum to make the flight take as long as possible. I soon realised that neither of the men had any technical knowledge and we were able to switch our transponder to the international code for an aircraft "not under it's own control" as the textbook euphemistically put it. Unfortunately most of the territory from thereon was not, at that time, controlled by radar so we could not be picked up until much nearer Israel.

And there I must leave you again until the next instalment. Writing this down again and reliving it is a very wearing task as I am sure that you will realise and forgive me for taking so long but I must take my time.
Regle

[Brian Abraham]

Not going to steal your thunder Reg, but glad to see you got your cap back. A most interesting life, one you could dine out on for many a year. And look back on with great pride. :D

[Hipper]

It must have been pretty boring flying in civil aviation after serving in WW2!

[regle]

Never a dull moment, Hipper.! Was that a sardonic comment on my thread ? It was certainly apt. I don't know which frightened me the most but I think that the war experience helped me cope with Civil Aviation's more scary moments and , believe me, there were many ! Regle

[regle]

During the long flight that I had decided on (We took about thirty five minutes longer than normal )the mood of the two men changed every few minutes. For some unknown reason they would suddenly don ski masks and then, just as rapidly , discard them. The elder man found my gold braided cap and wore it declaring "I am the Commander of this aeroplane". At times they were friendly and reasonable and then something would trigger off a burst of rhetoric. The so called massacre by the Israelis at Dov Yassar was brought up several times. They had very little knowledge of aviation and aeroplanes but never left the cockpit unattended.. They also told me that they were members of "Black September". Although this meant nothing to me at the time, this was the military arm of the Al Fatah movement and had been named for the removal and massacre of the Al Fatah movement from Jordan by King Hussein in September 1970.

During a period when there was only one of them in the cockpit I managed to get a message, quietly spoken in English , to one of the Stewards that no one was to let it be known that my Wife was one of the passengers. They had allowed me to go to the toilet but I dared not look for her in case there was some inadvertent sign of recognition from one of us.

It was now dark and eventually the lights of Israel appeared in front of us. We crossed the coast and communication with the Israeli Control was brief and professional. No mention of the situation was made by either of us. I made as long an approach as I could and landed on the main runway towards the sea. "Continue to the end of the runway and park on the runway to the right" were the instructions that I was given.. The runway in question was well away from the terminal buildings and was parallel with the Tel Aviv- Jerusalem road on which we could see the lights of many stationary cars.

I am sorry but I keep getting signs of internet trouble so will try and post this while I can and continue at a later date... Reg

[boguing]

You b*gger, you have no more internet trouble that I do helping my daughter with her A Level Maths revision. She's been warned too. Very flakey.

[Madbob]

boguing,

Patience my friend.....give Regle a break, it's his story and he can tell it in his own time. If your curiosity can't wait you can Google Sabena Flight 572 and all will be revealed, but personally I am happy to wait and to hear the outcome "first hand" and in Reg's own inimitable style.

Keep up the good work Reg!:ok:

MB

[regle]

Thanks for the helping hand and I can assure you that "You seem to be having problems with your internet,,,, etc," kept popping up and then asking for user name and password until I could'nt see what I was typing and got fed up. I do advise waiting as it is straight from the horse's mouth so to speak and waiting also might give you some idea of the suspense felt on board. I am coping and have an appointment next Tuesday at Canterbury to get those results. Thanks to all of you for your wonderful support and friendship. Reg

[RFCC]

Reg, Hoping all goes well on Tuesday with your results and you get a 'System checked - Satis' on your F700 :ok:

[johnfairr]

Regle,

You might want to try typing your memoirs in Word or some other Word processing software, then just cut and paste it into PPRuNe? Just a thought. :ok:

[regle]

Right from the beginning I had felt nothing but a cold and bitter anger that my command had been threatened. I was concerned for one thing only and that was for my passengers. I had no wish to be embroiled in the bitter battle between The State of Israel and the Arabs who were bent upon it's destruction. I am British and despite my Jewish background ,had no connections or feelings whatsoever for Israel. I had no previous dealings with any Israelis and had only been to Tel Aviv once or twice before. Like any Airline Pilot, my responsibility was to my passengers and to Sabena , my employers. I was, from the start , determined that I was going to do everything within my power to stop the hijackers from succeeding and even if the positions were reversed and it had been Israeli hijackers, I would have acted in exactly the same way, whatever the nationality, religion, creed , faith,or what have you of them. I knew, within me, that however long the ordeal lasted that I would be in better shape than they. There were signs already that the two men were taking some sort of stimulants. Their erratic behaviour was a clue to this. Nevertheless the pistol, a Smith and Wesson , never left the hand of the leader and the other one remained an aggressive dangerous young man.

We were, of course, now on the aircraft's batteries and these would not last very long. The Tower asked for permission to connect an external generator for electricity and air conditioning but , fortunately , the leader refused to allow this. I say fortunately because I knew that the heat of the following day would cause great discomfort and perhaps I would be allowed to open some of the emergency exits and doors. This would have the twofold purpose of forcing them to to mount a guard over each exit thus splitting them up and also to possibly allow passengers to escape through them if the occasion arose. I must confess that the thought of an armed attack coming from the Israeli's had not then crossed my mind.

Unknown to any of us in the stationary plane a squad of Israeli commando's had been in position underneath the plane from the moment that it had stopped. There was a moment,soon after stopping, when the plane shook and moved and I explained to the very alarmed hijackers that we had probably stressed tyres on landing and had overheated the brakes causing the tyres to burst . Little did I know that the commando's had deflated the main gear and had cut the hydraulic lines making taxying impossible.

Occasionally , while speaking to the Tower, the microphone would be grabbed from me and the leader would speak in Arabic to the Tower in a very rapid, threatening manner. I had been forced to show the leader how to use the microphone but when I was speaking I was able to convey one or two things by judicious choice of words and sentences. For instance by stressing and repeating the word "For" in sentences I was able to indicate how many of the hijackers were on board. They made a lot of demands as to whether the Red Cross representative had been called and were told by the Israeli's that he had been notified but that he was coming from Jerusalem and it would take time to get there.

I didn't sleep at all during the night but my First Officer who had behaved impeccably througout and was very calm managed to and I envied his attitude. The two men took it in turns to keep the vigil in the cockpit and the two girls made single visits to the cockpit from time to time and received terse Arabic instructions from the eldest man. I had made it quite clear to them that I was going to speak to the passengers from time to time and I did so. I always reassured them that everything possible was being done to resolve the situation and counselled them to keep calm and not to try to intervene in any way. I did this in as calm a voice as I possibly could but it was very difficult as I was watched like a hawk each time that I spoke.

No catering was put on board although the Israeli's had been perfectly willing to do so. The Leader refused and I was very pleased that he had done so as I reasoned that the men themselves would become more and more fatigued if there was very little food or liquid on board.. It was, of course, very hard on the passengers as the provisions that had been put on board at Brussels were running very low and drinks had to be rationed. There were ninety nine passengers on board, the majority of them elderly people. There were several Nuns and a Greek Orthodox priest who came in for a two day prolonged interrogation by the Israeli's afterwards.. There had been no panic. People seemed numbed by the situation. There was only one child, travelling alone but accompanied by a Sabena stewardess who was travelling as a passenger. My Wife took the nine year old girl under her wing and sat her next to her. She turned out to be "an enfant terrible" and refused to share any of the large amount of sweets and goodies that her parents had given her for the trip. A very sinister aspect of the situation was when the men demanded the Passports of the passengers and segregated the Jewish names from the others. My Wife point blankly refused to surrender hers saying "I am British" and they let her sit on the port side of the aircraft just by the main entrance door..... More very soon. Reg

[boguing]

Regie, well worth the wait.

The daughter and I have a tacit agreement that, if there is a delay in a request for help on an A level Maths question, it is soley because I live so far from an exchange that my interweb is a little iffy.

Nothing whatsoever to do with loss of memory, familiarity or knowledge.

She humours me and I love her!

John

[regle]

As the sun began to warm the plane the heat became unbearable. My terrifying 50th. Birthday had come and gone and I decided to take matters into my own hands and saying "Do you want everyone on board to die ?" I strode out of the cockpit and released the two overwing emergency exit windows so that they fell out. This did not go down at all well with the two men but it was a " fait accompli ". They now had to keep the two girls near the wing exits and ,as they kept opening and shutting the main entrance door, one of them had to guard this leaving just one in the cockpit. Communication also became much more difficult between them as it meant one of them leaving their position to contact the others.

A new problem arose. Hundreds of curious Israelis had parked their cars along the main Tel Aviv - Jerusalem road that ran parallel to the runway to watch the "goings on " and, especially during the night, their lights and movements had unnerved our hijackers who swore that it was an IsraelI ruse to move troops into position. We had to insist to the Tower that they had to be moved and this was eventually done but it took a deliberately long time.

Despit their demand that the Airport be closed ,the Israelis kept it open. A poignant moment was when a Sabena 707 roared closely overhead. It was captained by John Deleu whose Wife, Monique , was one of the Stewardesses aboard our plane and he had been allowed to pilot the plane bringing the Sabena and Government officials from Belgium.

Up to now no demands had been made by the hijackers despite repeated requests from the Israelis. Suddenly the leader produced sheets and sheets of paper on which were written over three hundred names. They told me to tell the Israelis that these were the names of Palestinian prisoners in nearby Ramla prison and that they...and they named themselves as Black September.... would blow themselves and everyone on board the aircraft , up if their demands were not met
to release these men and to provide air transport to Cairo for them all. The Israelis kept playing for time saying that there was no one at the Airport who could possibly deal with such a demand and that it would take time to find responsible members of the Government. The two men became furious and one of them started screaming into the microphone. The younger one rushed out and returned with the two girls. The older one said something to them and I saw their faces turn white. They shook their heads but he was insistent. The girls began to cry and the men embraced them. I knew that they had decided to blow the aircraft up with everyone, including themselves, on board ; the younger man left the cockpit and I saw my opportunity. Whilst the other, who was holding the gun in the hand nearest to me , was looking at the girls, I grabbed his hand and bent it back to his body. His finger was on the trigger and I had my finger over it but he had his thumb pressed on the safety catch. and the gun could not fire. All this took only seconds and the younger man came running back into the cockpit, his face contorted with rage and beat me back into my seat. I was told, later , by my Wife that she could hear me crying out "You promised that no one would be hurt." and she became terribly worried for my safety. They began talking furiously and it was obvious that the younger one wanted to kill me there and then but the other one would not let him. What probaly saved my life was, at that moment the Control Tower called us up and told us that the Red Cross representative had arrived and wanted to talk to the hijackers. This completely defused the whole taut situation and the relief on their faces was plain to be seen. They had obviously been waiting for some message to be passed to them by the Red Cross-completely unknowingly, I hasten to add,- containing a code word passed by the Black September movement to the Red Cross which would innocently be included in the message. Fortunately, I learned afterwards ,Peter Dils, our ex Battle of Britain Fighter Pilot D.F.C., Operations Manager in Brussels, had thought of just such an eventuality and was adamant that only the Israelis should be allowed to speak to us. The Israelis stalled again and told us that the Red Cross representative was standing by but was not permitted to use the R/T. Once again the hijackers were furious. They were arguing amongst themselves when I tried a desperate move. To this day I do not know why I suggested it but I found myself saying. "It is obvious that the Israelis don't believe that you mean to blow up the plane. Why don't you let me go and persuade them to to negotiate with you as it is the lives of myself and my passengers that are at stake ?. " To my eternal amazement they agreed on the condition that the Red Cross would send their representative to collect me and bring me back. I could hear the disbelief in the voice of the Air traffic controller when the news was passed to him.
It is a good moment to stop and wonder to myself...... regle

[kevmusic]

I think you've stunned us all into silence, Reg..........

[Icare9]

.... glad to see you got your cap back
makes sense now Brian!
Now, how many Prime Ministers did you meet, Reg?

[regle]

I am going to disappoint a lot of people but I have come to the conclusion that it is better to leave you all "cliff hanging" as it were. so there will be no more on the events of nearly forty years ago from me. It left an indelible scar upon my life and the life of my family and I pay homage to the people of all faiths who suffered . Please understand. Regle

[BEagle]

Regle, whilst your personal situation is of course the most important aspect to consider, your clarity of description of the events to which you have borne witness is a quality which shouldn't be allowed to fade.

Do please reconsider - the thread will of course remain open if, as I'm sure many will hope, you decide to continue your unique discourse.

"I've started, so I'll finish", perhaps?

May I thank you for all that you have done.

[Icare9]

Reg: concentrate on getting better, we all wish you a prompt return to good health and the ability to be independent again.
When you're on the mend, you know where your friends are!!
All the best for Tuesday and beyond!!

To all the other great contributors to this thread:
Please carry on posting the memories of your own, or fathers, grandfathers etc so that this can remain as a repository and tribute to the courage of those who were there through the dark days of WW2 and whose exploits, however mundane they may seem to you, can be cherished by those who appreciate their efforts.

For any new contributors: Welcome aboard. A high standard has been set, but please don't let that dissuade you from posting. We'd like to hear from air gunners, bomb aimers and anyone who stepped up to do their bit in the Air Force in WW2. Let this thread be a lasting testament to them.

[regle]

First of all, Icare9, the last two emails that I have sent you, one today, have both been returned and I have not changed anything in the address. I should like you all to know that I am coping and shall continue to contribute to the Forum but must leave the very delicate subject alone for many valid reasons. So please bear with me and I shall try and entertain you on more suitable subjects. Thanks for all your good wishes. Regle

[kevmusic]

Reg, I, for one, respect your decision to say nothing more of this event. I haven't been through the initial trials to earn an RAF pilot's brevet; nor did I suffer the the rigours of a daily run into Germany with its horrendous perils. Of those who did, very few, I think, could claim to have faced a postwar trial of that magnitude, and to have dealt with it with such fleet-footed intelligence and sang froid under the most extreme pressure.

As you have already mentioned, something in your 'gaining an RAF pilot's brevet' was, I think, responsible for giving you the considerable backbone required of such a trial; and I salute you and all your brethren, past and present, for your gift of these great qualities.

There is more to gaining an RAF pilot's brevet than just flying an aircraft, it seems!

[regle]

Yes, please remove them. They are just what I do not need, Regle

[Warmtoast]

regle

"Yes, please remove them. They are just what I do not need, Regle"

Press cuttings removed as requested.

Warmtoast

[PPRuNe Pop]

Please! No further references to the Sabena incident. Reg has made a personal request for the all relevent details to be deleted - that has been done. He has informed us that it greatly affects a very close relation who is most upset that it has been bought up again.

However, Reg has offered to relate things that are of interest regarding his time as a DC10 and 747 skipper.

PPP

[Fareastdriver]

As these are anonymous forums

We also have to protect Regle

[Jimmy Macintosh]

Regle,

Your memoires have been excellent, thank you for all that you have shared and please do continue onto the DC-10 and 747 years.

It seems we have our very own Earnest Gann. :ok:

Still enjoying each contribution and hope to read more from all of the posters with the story to tell...

[Icare9]

Now don't you start, Ernest Gann indeed!!
We've got our own High and Mighty!!
Haven't you noticed the similarity to Alfred (Alistair) Cooke's Letters from America??? He had almost as eventful life as Reg, and from similar schooling!!

[MichaelJP59]

Don't post usually in this forum but this thread is remarkable and hope regle and other veterans can continue to contribute.

Was thinking how fortunate it is that the relatively recent arrival of internet open discussion forums such as this has been just in time to capture these important memories, and in such an interactive way.

[regle]

Welcome to our "Band of Brothers", Michael. Your contribution is very appropriate. I count myself as having been bludgeoned, by my family, into learning the basics of computing about eighteen months ago at the venerable age of 86plus and so being able to contribute to your "important memories". In so doing, I have discovered that I could write rather better than I thought possible and ruefully reflect on what might have been another career----- but then I would'nt have had anything to write about so would that have been another story. ? We look forward to hearing from you,. All the best, Regle

[forget]

What's happened to cliffnemo, the thread originator. Nothing heard since April.

[Union Jack]

Very well said MichaelJP59 and, not surprisingly, a suitably erudite response from Regle. In the words of the proverb, "What you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts" and, my Goodness Regle we too have certainly gained enormously on the roundabouts thanks to you and your "brothers in arms" being prepared to relive and recount your spellbinding experiences in such a vivid way - with or without the aid of a bludgeon!:ok:

Jack

[MichaelJP59]

We have to thank your family then for bludgeoning you, then - hope it wasn't too painful! You may not have written your memoirs formally but having read many aviation history books I have to say your writing in this format stands just as worthy as any of them - but unfortunately for you there is no royalty cheque for your time and trouble:)

[Icare9]

Just to let you all relax a bit, Cliff is fine. I too, as well as others, had noted his absence, but he's been up to the Yorkshire Air Museum and out and about in the beach buggy as weather permits....

I just think he's surprised that he started such a wonderful thread and it's all "Thanks" to him that we have had, and still hope to have, some wonderful contributors on here.

OK, let's see who else can step up to the plate?
All welcome with those all important (to us!) memoirs about wartime life - BEFORE those memories are lost forever.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I have a friend who was in the first class to go through 3 BFTS at Miami, Oklahoma. He went on to fly Spits, Hurricanes and P-51s, and got a few kills to boot.

He says that there used to be UK-based association of some sorts that kept 3 BFTS people in touch, but that he has heard nothing in a few years.

A Google search has yielded nothing, but I wondered if anyone here knows something?

I have asked if he would post his recollections here, but I am not sure he wants to 'steal' anyone else's thunder.

[Fareastdriver]

Strap him down to a chair in front of a keyboard and tell him there is a free beer at the end of each page he composes.
If he is aircrew that should be more than enough.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I do hope he will post, as he has some remarkable and often funny stories.

He is in ill health and has some surgery planned for next week, but assuming that goes well, I will pester him to post here when he feels well enough.

In the meantime, I know it will lift his spirits to find out more about this enigmatic 3 BFTS association.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

YouTube - Spitfire pilot returns from combat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LKYCVNfnvI)

This video shows him being hoisted aloft after he had just downed a Ju.88. His story about his private audience with the King and Queen is as priceless as it is bloody funny!

[forget]

... enigmatic 3 BFTS association.

This it? Not much activity. B.F.T.S - British Flying Training School (http://www.neoam.cc.ok.us/~bfts/)

[Icare9]

or this?
Paula K. Denson | The Royal Air Force in Oklahoma (http://www.pkdenson.com/books/raf_in_oklahoma/news.htm)

[andyl999]

Ewan the is a museum in Texas Introduction - NO. 1 BRITISH FLYING TRAINING SCHOOL MUSEUM, INC, LOCATED AT TERRELL, TEXAS (http://www.bftsmuseum.org/) although they are BFTS 1 they have a lot of material and want to incorporate other BFTS's into that museum. They are worth contacting and even visiting!

Andy

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Gentlemen, thank you all very much!

[regle]

Almost two years to the day that marked the anniversary of the hijacking ,May 8th 1972, I found myself on a Sabena Boeing 707 bound for Rome. this time I was a passenger ,in company with my Chief Pilot and friend, Marcel Vanderverren, bound for Rome where we were both to undergo our Simulator training that would prepare us for our conversion on to the newly acquired fleet of DC10's that Sabena had recently purchased. I had spent nearly all of the last two years flying for Sabena from Johannesburg to Brussels but being based in South Africa. The Company had deemed this wise and treated me with the utmost consideration but, of course, it had meant a huge change in our lives. However we were back in our own home in Brussels where I was faced with the choice of continuing as a Captain on the 707 or opting to fly on the newly purchased DC10. I had to promise to stay on the DC10 for at least three years in order that the Company could realise their investment in training me. It had always been my ambition, even my dream , to eventually fly the 747 but I was not quite high enough in the seniority at that time in order to bid for them. The bidding system in Sabena was, broadly enough, similar to most Aviation Companies. As vacancies on an aircraft appeared, Pilots were asked, in strict order of seniority in the Company, whether they would like to bid for that aircraft. This would often mean a change in sectors as well. In return the Pilot had to promise to stay on that aircraft for the time laid down by the Company and could not bid again until that time had elapsed. I had reasoned that I was 52 at the time of bidding for the DC10, could fly on it for the statuary three years then if, and IF was the operative word, there was a vacancy on the 747 and the coveted Transatlantic Sector then I would still be able to complete the madatory four years, on this aircraft, before reaching the normal retiring age of 60. It says everything for my relationship with "Lady Luck" that it turned out exactly like that.

I was accepted for training on the brand new DC10 and had the enjoyable experience of going to Ostia, near Rome ,for my Simulator training and then to Yuma, Arizona, where Douglas had an airfield, for the Aircraft training. The Simulation of flying had reached the level where you could practically fly the aircraft itself before you stepped into it.. The DC10 embraced a completely new concept in flying, where instrument flying was of the utmost importance, but I found no difficulty in adapting and looked forward to Arizona and the flying of the aircraft itself.
Anytime I see "Spaghetti Vongole" on a menu I am immediately transported to Ostia. Our Chief Pilot , Marcel, was training with me. He was a schoolboy in England during the war, had an English Wife and was a great friend who had helped me with many problems of the stressful times of the Hijack. It was he who found us the wonderful Restaurant in Ostia where the three crews who were training there would repair to each evening. Your evening meal was swimming around in enormous tanks as you entered the place Trouble was that by the time it appeared in front of you on a plate it felt as though you were greeting an old friend. Not that it stopped us enjoying the wonderful cuisine. ! The Vongole consisted of the most exquisite mixture of clams, shrimps, prawns, oysters, crab, lobster..if it swam in the Med., it was there.
The Simulator Course was rigorously but efficiently given to us by the Al Italia and the Douglas Instructors and was very comprehensive but enjoyable.
After the successful completion of the Simulator course , three crews comprising three Captains, three First officers and three Flight Engineers together with our Chief, Marcel, flew by our own Company to New York ,then crossed America to Los Angeles and then flew by the famous Howard Hughes Airline to the small town of Yuma, Arizona where Douglas had their own field for training crews.
We disembarked out of the small DC9 that had brought us from L.A. and walked out into the searing heat of Arizona. A gentleman with "Douglas" emblazoned on his bright pink blazer welcomed us. "Hi, there" he said. "Welcome to Yuma." He handed us three sets of keys. "These are the keys to your automobiles " he said "They are waiting outside the gate. Your Hotel is the only one, it's three miles down the road". He gave us three credit cards. "When you need gas, use these Any filling station will do. They all know about you. Have a good day. " With that he disappeared into the sunset and, with the exception of one of our number, we never set eyes upon him again. The three cars were great big , brand new Chevrolets and we got great pleasure out of using them. After hours of flying the great DC10 we would explore the desert which surrounded the small town of Yuma. We would drive for hours on end just drinking in the magnificent Desert scenery. One nameless Captain drove a few miles too far, one day and inadvertently crossed the border into Mexico and finished in a Mexican jail where he languished until our Douglas Rep. , still in his pink blazer, eventually got them out several hours later.

[cliffnemo]

forget
What's happened to cliffnemo, the thread originator. Nothing heard since April.
Thanks for inquiring Mr Forget, (and Icare)
I an 'fair to middlin tha knows', and to prove it photo below shows John Hunt (Elvington Halifax) and me about two weeks ago. John is the pretty one on the right, we had just been sitting in the cockpit making vroom, vroom , sounds.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/CZECHJET2013.jpg
Does any one know the history of the jet ? A relative was given this by Pinewood Studios.

At the moment , I am fully occupied reading all the exciting, and interesting posts, but will finish my mundane story when things slow down.

[andyl999]

Reg, when I first travelled to the USA (1979 ish) I used to fly on Hughes Airwest, they were DC9's (rear twin engines like a BAC 1-11) they were painted all yellow and were known as "The Yellow Bananas"?
Inevitably they were flown by Korean war veterans (probably ex fighter pilots) they did not know what a rate 1 turn was!

Also there was PSA at that time that I think was amalgamated with Hughes? I distinctly remember several trips where the stewardesses wore hot pants, but I digress.......................

If you don't believe me see YouTube - Southwest Airlines Hostesses Hotpants Ad 1972 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnqnyzegfc)

Oh how the world has gone backwards and "political"

[regle]

Our DC10's were destined to fly the Far East network but Sabena had scheduled a virtual "round the world" trip for it's DC 10 crews. Starting from Brussels you would fly to Alaska, over the North Pole, slip (the term used to describe the getting off an aircraft, handing it over to a waiting crew, then after taking your rest, continue the flight by taking over the next aircraft to come in) and then carry on to Tokyo, slip again, then take the next flight westwards, this time slipping at Manila or Bombay. Sometimes you would go through Dubai or Abu Dhabi but it was a really sapping flight due to the many time zones that you would cross. Alaska was minus ten but you would cross the date line en route to Tokyo and land there the day after you had taken off from Alaska. Also the waiting time at slip destinations was governed by the frequency of the schedules and Sabena did not have daily flights to each destination. One tip that I learned from the locals whilst slipping at Bombay , which was six and a half hours ahead of GMT, was to turn the watchface upside down when the hands would be at , more or less, the right time for the time in Bombay, if you had kept the watch on GMT.

As Sabena did not have any experienced DC10 Pilots, Douglas insisted upon the initial line checks for new Captains would have to be carried out with a Douglas Pilot. It was because of this ruling that my line check, in 1974, on the DC10 nearly became the last flight that I would ever make. Pause for break....Just kidding ! One of Douglas's Chief Pilots was the checking Pilot. He had held one of the most prestigious jobs possible before joining Douglas and was well known and liked in the Aviation World. He apologised for rhe regulations that made it mandatory that he occupied the First Officer's seat for all take offs and landings. I had already passed out as a Pilot for flying the aircraft and had it on my licence but this was a check on the routes that I would actually be flying.
We were Tokyo bound but flying the long route Eastwards. The first leg was from Brussels to Athens and all went smoothly. The next leg was from Athens to Bombay and I took off, with a heavy aircraft, from Athens . We were using the sole runway that headed out over the sea.
As was my normal practice, I called for undercarriage up as soon as I saw my climb and descent indicator showing "positive climb", the command was followed and the wheels retracted. The next thing that I knew was the control column was juddering like mad and the "Stall Warning" was working. In much less time than it takes me to write this, I saw that the leading edge slats were retracted. I opened up the engines, dived for the sea (we were at no more than three hundred feet ) and yelled for the slats to be put out. This had already been done. I was able to regain speed and control no more than sixty or seventy feet above the surface of the sea.
We climbed away in complete and utter silence. Eventually I was able to speak " I did'nt ask for "slats retract" I said. My Checking Pilot seemed to be in a state of complete shock and just sat there saying nothing. What seemed to be hours later the only words that he spoke for a long, long time were..... "You sure got them ".
The leading edge slats are a device that increases the airflow over the wings at low speeds and are absolutely vital for takeoff where the aircraft is at it's most vulnerable with it's highest weight and lowest speed. Not all types of aircraft need them but the DC!10 certainly did. There is always a minimum speed for the retraction of those slats and we were well below that speed. We were very fortunate that we were over the sea and had maximum space to recover our flying speed but it had been a very near thing. Eventually the Check Pilot spoke to me "I don't know what came over me" he said " I have never done such a thing like that in all my life." There was very little I could say. It only goes to show that we are all human and mistakes are inevitable but the retraction of those slats below flying speed should have been made physically impossible. I never reported it and I am sure that he never mentioned it. The anonymous delivery of a case of whisky to my house , some time later, did little to change my opinion. I am sure that he has lived with it ever since. What would you have done ? Regle

[thegypsy]

Regle

Could have been a similar event to a Trident at Staines called the droop.

These days it could not be kept a secret.

[Union Jack]

The anonymous delivery of a case of whisky to my house , some time later, did little to change my opinion. I am sure that he has lived with it ever since. What would you have done ?

Well, I would definitely have drunk the whisky! I hope you did too - you certainly earned it ....:ok:

jack

[angels]

By heck!

I've been off for some time having had to endure quintuple bypass surgery. cliff looks more chipper than me and he's got a few years on me!! I wonder if he knew what he was stirring up when he started this thread!

What a lot has happened.

Thanks for the continuation of your memoirs regle, fully understand your reasons for skipping a little.

Have thoroughly enjoyed 'Tow's Tremendous Typhoon Tales' as well.

Come on folks, let's get some more stories up and running!

[Icare9]

Welcome Madbob and would look forward to your fathers memoirs.
It's been said previously, but in a way, he needs to ensure that the memories of his crew and others aren't forgotten. We need his story to ensure WE NEVER FORGET what they went through.

Very impressive sight, all those Stirling tugs and Horsa gliders waiting for the "off" for Arnhem. Too many to count!

Also sounds as if his experiences in the Med would be very interesting!

[regle]

You have done much better than me because I have never mastered the art of posting pictures on the Forum. I find them fascinating and I have always taken my hat off to anyone who flew Stirlings and survived ! Please , please "Carpe Diem" and let us have your Father's experiences whilst you can get them first hand. All my very best regards to him, Regle.

[Davaar]

and is worn by all ranks but not Officers .... nor officer cadets.

[tow1709]

Peter has lent me a copy of a book called "Hawker Typhoon - The Combat History". It is by Richard Townshend Bickers, and published by Airlife Publishing 1999. Its ISBN number is 1 85310 908 8, and it contains a wealth of information on this aircraft and its pilots. This copy is signed by the author.

Peter sent an early draft of his memoirs to Richard and some of the bits I have posted in this forum also appear in this book.


Peter's story continues...

On May 4th 1944 we did an exercise with the army called 'Fabius'. This consisted of dummy attacks on a Motor Transport convoy on a road near Andover. My first effort in the morning was abortive due to the fact that the CSU (Constant Speed Unit) on my aircraft's propeller was not working and I could not get out of fine pitch. In the afternoon I led a four on the same exercise and had a fine time 'beating up' the convoy. We received a message of thanks from the Army with an offer to return the wing-tip that one of us had left inside a canvas-topped lorry! My number three had been a bit too low and, as he banked to pull away, his wingtip had just touched one of the steel hoops that supported the canvas hood of the lorry. Fortunately the wingtips were separate fairings which were only skin rivetted on. His complete wingtip had whipped off and fallen inside the lorry which was luckily empty. The wingtip was returned by a REME Lieutenant and Sergeant who arrived in a small van. The two army types were given a right royal welcome in their respective messes - the MT section even went so far as to cook up a false mechanical failure report for the van so that the two could stay overnight and get over their welcome!

A few days earlier than this, one of our aircraft had been spruced up and flown up to Northolt where King George VI was due to inspect a selection of aircraft from the 2nd Tactical Air Force which was just being formed. On 5th May I was flown up to Northolt in an Auster by Flight-Sergeant Pattison to collect our 'exhibit'.

This aircraft had been standing out on the airfield for over a week without being serviced and I had a hell of a job getting it started. After the first five attempts to start it, I had the cartridge starter reloaded and tried again. Still no luck, and by this time I was sure that I had got the engine well and truly flooded. After four more cartridges, without a peep of life from the engine, the fitter standing by informed me that they had no more cartridges and would have to go back to the main stores to collect some more!

I decided to give up and try again after lunch. I left the aircraft parked facing into wind with the radiator flap open and hoped for the best. After lunch I met the fitter once again. He had been to stores and arrived with a full box of fifty cartridges. Obviously he had no confidence in my ability to start the engine! Fortunately this time the engine started on the second attempt and I taxied the aircraft back across the airfield to park outside Flying Control where I ran the engine for about ten minutes to ensure that it was well and truly warmed up before I switched off. I then booked out at Flying Control and it subsequently restarted first time.

After take-off I could not resist the fact that I was within three miles of my home and nipped off to do a low-level 'beat-up' of Rayners Lane. Luckily nobody put in a complaint about low flying aircraft and I had my first and only aerial view of my house from about 300ft! I had had no chance to warn my parents that I might be 'dropping in' in that way and I later learned that the noise rather frightened my mother and she kept indoors rather than go out to see what it was all about. I then had an uneventful flight back to ThorneyIsland.

May 11th was the next op. and this time, once again I had to turn back. This time the aircraft - not my usual mount but HF-H, was practically uncontrollable due to exceptionally stiff elevator controls. They had seemed all right in the pre-flight checks, but after take-off, when I tried to ease forward on the control column to get into the correct climbing attitude, nothing happened.

I increased the pressure and it suddenly 'gave' putting me into a shallow dive. Since I was only about 200 feet up at that moment it was most disconcerting. Hauling back on the control column resulted in another violent change of angle. I immediately called up the leader and said I was making an emergency landing. By the time I had done a circuit, somewhat like a porpoise, the runway was clear and I managed to get the aircraft down in one piece. The landing was certainly not one of my best. I put down the wheels and flaps and tried a fairly steep approach. As I crossed the threshold of the runway I cut the throttle and waited as the airspeed bled off. I tried to judge it so that the stick would come back the right amount at the right moment. The first movement sent me ballooning up again but by dint of a violent forward and backward movement on the stick everything seemed to work out right and I got to the bottom of the next 'porpoise' just in the right attitude about three feet from the ground as the aircraft stalled. A heavy thump and I was down.

I taxied in and complained bitterly to the sergeant rigger. It seems that this aircraft had just had new elevators fitted and there had not been time to give it an air test before being scheduled to operate. There was not much that the riggers could do except to squirt in some penetrating oil and work the elevators continually until they loosened up. I learnt later that for three days this was the punishment for any lowly 'erk' on 'jankers'. He had to sit in the aircraft for an hour moving the control column fully forward and back continually. There must have been quite a few 'naughty boys' since, three days later when I flew an air-test, the elevators were as smooth as silk!.

However, before that I flew on May 12th in another aircraft, HF-P, as one of a section of four to attack a railway track.

At this time some of the aircraft were fitted with a 35mm movie camera operated by a button on the control column. My aircraft was one of the two in our section so fitted, and I used it as I dived on the tracks. The track was on a slight curve, and I fired the rockets in pairs as I did a curving dive at about 30 degrees.

It was a classic operation for it appeared that each pair of rockets hit one on each track. The film, either mine or the other one - I never found out which - has been shown many times since on cinema screens and TV. Whether we actually broke the rails or not I will never know, but the film has become a classic of its kind.

Although we did not know it at the time, 'D-Day’ was rapidly approaching and our role was beginning to change once again.

PS Peter will be 87 years old on Tuesday 29 June.

[fredjhh]

tow1709
I had no intention of continuing my experiences after flying training aind the Abingdond Crash, but Peter's fascinating stories, and the recent one about the locked control column, reminded me of the following:

One morning at Riccall I was told to collect a Halifax from the hangar and take it on an air-test. We were also authorised to fly out to sea for some air to sea firing by the gunners. As we were about to leave the dispersal, the Wireless-leader arrived and said he was going to give the Wireless operator a check-out in the air. I had walked round the exterior check with Doug Keane (F/E), removed the tail lock from the inside and stowed it, and removed the control locks which prevented me from getting into the pilot's seat.
The operation of all flying controls was normal. Then we started up and tested engines and did the mag.-drop check before signing the 700 and taxying out. It was a dual control aeroplane and I think F/O "Nick" Nock, the bomb-aimer was looking forward to handling it in the air. At full throttle "Nick" locked the levers and I pushed the stick forward to lift the rudders up into the slipstream.
At 100 m.p.h. I eased the stick back to lift off, but the stick only moved part way then locked solid. I pulled hard but it would not move and we were hurtling towards the hedge at over 100 m.p.h.
I always had my oxygen mask across my face and the microphone switched on for take-off so I was able to shout, "Pull on your stick, Nick, pull hard." He grabbed the dual control column and we both pulled together. There was a loud crack, the sticks came back and we shot into the air, - but far too steeply. Luckily we had speed to spare and, as we climbed away, I called again, "Now push!" The control columns shot forward and we dived towards the deck. Pulling back again we gained height, repeating the process and diving and climbing at ridiculous angles, until we reached 1,000 feet. The control column would not stay central for level flight, so we 'porpoised' around the circuit.
Flying Control had been filling my ears with questions as to what I was doing, but I had no chance to answer until I had pulled up wheels and flaps and settled down into a switch-back orbit of the airfield. Then I was able to tell them, and the very worried crew, that the control column was locking in the forward or aft positions, but it would not stay central. Doug Keane (F/E) and the Wireless-leader started checking the controls to the elevators, but everything seemed smooth and undamaged. Keane checked under the foot of the control column, then he went down to the rear to check the elevator assembly, but he could find nothing wrong.
The Wing-Commander and the Engineering Officer were now in the Control Tower offering advice and suggestions, but we could find nothing at fault. At last the Wing-Commander ordered me to bale out the crew over the airfield, fly to the coast, head the Halifax in a climb out to sea, engage automatic pilot and jump out myself before the coast. I repeated the order to the crew, who had heard it themselves, and ordered "Parachutes on. Prepare to abandon aircraft." At this the Wireless-leader announced that he had come aboard without a parachute. After telling him what I thought of him I told Keane to help me off with my harness and give it to the Wireless-leader, together with my parachute pack. The officer refused to take it. I said I was giving him an order to take it, but he said he would never jump. The crew then said that if I had to stay on board, so would they. Meanwhile the Commanding Officer was asking why I was delaying and I had to tell him about the Signals officer. The C/O repeated the order, but it was no use.
I climbed higher and told 'Nick' I would need his help in an attempted landing, so first, we would practise landing above cloud. We throttled back all four engines and dived steeply towards a cloud then, when I called, we pulled back together on the stick. After two or three trials I was ready to land and I got reluctant permission from the ground.
We did our undulating circuit at 1,000 feet and turned in at the same height, but with flaps and wheels down.
I held height at 600 feet until we were almost over the edge of the field, then I cut all four engines and let the nose drop into a steep glide.
The fire engine and the ambulance were moving slowly forward by the A.C.P.'s caravan. The A.C.P. ( Aerodrome Control Pilot) got out of his caravan and retreated to a very safe distance as we plunged towards the end of the runway. I glanced across at 'Nick' and saw the sweat pouring off his face. When I judged the time was right I shouted "Now! Pull!" We heaved back together. The column stuck for a moment then cracked right back and the Halifax was running down the concrete on three wheels in as smooth a landing as I had ever done. I shouted, "We are down. We're O.K". 'Nick' released his seat and disappeared.
I taxied up to the Watch Office where the Wing Commander was instantly aboard. As I switched off he appeared by my side demanding to know what the trouble was. I was pinned into my seat by the column, which was hard back, and it took both of us to shove it forward to release me.
The fault was, I believe, that a plate in the tail assembly was jammed by a loose object, probably a nut. Some years after the war another Handley Page aircraft, a development of the Halifax, dived into the ground in Oxfordshire, and the cause of the crash was attributed to a loose object in the tail assembly.
The Wing Commander asked if I wished to prefer charges against the Signals Officer, or would I leave it to him to deal with the matter? I did not wish to get involved with a Court Martial so I let the WingCo deal with it. When I made my statement of events I left out references to his refusal to bale out and dealt only with the mechanical problem.
The crew were very impressed with my ability to make a "dead-stick" landing of a Halifax, but I pointed out that, without help from 'Nick', or some other member of the crew, I would never have got the stick back.
There were many stories in PoW camp of Aircrew who refused to bale out, - they preferred death by fire or impact!
Sorry to break the thread. fredjhh.

[Union Jack]

Sorry to break the thread

Break? Break? Now that's what I call a break, Fred - in more ways than one!:ok:

Jack

[Icare9]

Someone else who can produce heart stopping stories! And a perfect landing!!

Thanks Fred, I think we're all relieved that you and your crew all made it!! That's what we now find so amazing. Day after day and night after night, thousands of young men climbed into their aircraft never knowing what might happen in the next few hours, yet they still did it. Not only flak, fighters, collision, bad weather, faulty engines or equipment, wounded or dead crew and even on practice flights, Fate could still bite you!

With aircraft production 24/7 I suppose quality control can't be perfect. The surprise is that so many aircraft, bombers, fighters etc were being produced at fantastic rates and that superiority was being gained.

That's why these memories are so important. To lose them without record is a dis-service to all those brave lads who never had the chance to tell their stories. We have to have them to ensure we never forget what they did for us.

[angels]

Blimey!!

Fred, you're not breaking the thread, you're making the thread!!

Brilliant. :ok:

And a really happy birthday in advance to Peter. :)

[regle]

You have been hiding your light beneath the proverbial bushel. In the many hours of "Hallybashing" on all marks, I never encountered such a problem as yours ( I bet that it was the old pre square rudder Halifax, the Mk 1 ) nor even heard of such a problem until today when I read your gripping tale and sweated every second with you. Even Riccall brings back many memories "Total Riccall" ? Keep them coming, Reg

[brakedwell]

The Mk 1 Hastings crash near Abingdon was caused by metal fatigue in the elevator hinge brackets.

[fredjhh]

Reg. I only flew Halifaxes Mk 1 and Mk2, never with the larger fins and rudders.

Further to my piece on the jammed elevator, I have now found the article in The Telegraph (date unknown) about the Hermes crash.

Plane controls jammed.
CRASH REPORT

A small extraneous object, caught in the elevator mechanism, jammed the controls of the HERMES aircraft in which three people died when it crashed near Bishop's Stortford in April last year, a report to the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation concludes.
Mr J W Duggan, Deputy Chief Inspector of Accidents, says the object was not found and it was impossible to identify it, but it deprived the pilots of control of the aircraft and caused the accident..................
DEEP SCORE MARKS.
The four-engined Hermes, which was making a test flight after engine change, crashed about six miles from Stanstead Airport on April 1, 1958, fifteen minute after take-off. Its pilot, Skyways' chief test pilot, Captain G.D. Rayment, aged 38, had radioed that the controls were completely jammed.
Descending in a series of dives and climbs the aircraft plunged into a field at Manor Farm, Measden Green, and burnt out, killing Captain Rayment and the second pilot Captain J. A. West, aged 38, and Engineer Officer N. Bradley, aged 35.
An examination of the wreckage revealed deep, bright score marks on the moving part of the elevator mechanism, indicating that a hard object, such as a small split-pin had jammed the mechanism.
Mr Duggan states that the object was presumably displaced when the aircraft hit the ground, but several small extraneous objects ( among them an inch- bolt and spit-pins were later recovered from the stern frame bay.
He added that an inspection of another Hermes revealed a similar assortment of such objects.

AND we thought we had only to contend with night-fighters and Flak! fredjhh

[forget]

On that same day I flew from Cottesmore to Leuchars on a Mickey Finn aboard a Hastings of the same squadron. There but for the swipe of a tasking chinagraph..............

[airborne_artist]

Forget - a mate was on the same para course as the majority of the victims - but at the other end of the alphabet - with two exceptions the Army guys are from A-H, according to this list (http://www.aaahs.org.uk/crash1965.html) about 80% down quite a long page.

[Madbob]

Picking up on my post of the 24th June I am able to offer what I hope may become the "contents" page of my father's route to Gaining An R.A.F. Pilots Brevet in WWII. He is still alive and whilst physically not in good health retains his all-important marbles....I hope that he can keep up the tale for a little while longer!

His story is a little unusual as it began in Trinidad, then part of the British West Indies and begain in November 1940 at the ITW run by the Empire Air Training Scheme in Trinidad. This involved square bashing and ground school and lasted until January 1941 and on completion was followed by EFTS at Piarco in Trinidad on No. 3 course with two civil registered Tiger Moths (VP-TAC and VP-TAD) which had been previously used by the Light Aeroplane Club (LAC). These had been commandeered (and painted in camoflage!) and the CFI was a F/L Carroll and an RNVR Lt. Williams as deputy CFI. (He later became CFI).

There were 5 on the course which included two close friends, Richard Bryden and Sandy Fraser. Both were subsequently killed in flying accidents and my father was deeply affected by their deaths and found meeting their respective mothers on his return in 1946 very hard. (Richard was killed in May 1942 flying Hurricane V7466 aged 19 following an engine failure. Sandy was killed in a mid air collision whilst flying a Mustang on the 27th May 1944.)

Lt. Williams ended sending him off solo after 7 hours dual on the 21st Feb 1941. The entire course lasted 50 hours and dad's log book shows him having 24.15 dual and 26.10 solo all by day with the course finishing at the end of April 1941. He was graded "above average" with 88% and posted to England travelling of course by ship (the MS Vibran from Norway) arriving on the 2nd June 1941.....

More to follow....

MB

[angels]

MB - Thanks a lot matey. Keep it up. :ok:

[pbeach]

Apologies for the late reply to this, but this is the first time I have seen it, and I am new to these forums. Regle is correct the pilot is indeed

Flt Lt E (Ernest) .R (Robert) Herrald.
The rest of the crew is very likely to be:
P. (Philip) E. (Emlyn) T. (Thyer) Jones DFC
W. (William) H. (Henry) Higgs Engineer DFC
A. (Alfred) Kell DFC
H. (Harry) F (Francis). Sibley DFC
S. (Stanley) Gibbon DFC

The crew member third from the left is my grandfather. I have a very similar photo, but without the chap 1st on the left.

[rmventuri]

Pbeach, welcome to the forum! Glad you are able to make a connection with the photo. Actually that photo is a bit of an enigma as until now I did not know most of the names of all the chaps so I very much appreciate your response. I have some of the Snaith Ops logs and found one entry (August 30, 1943 raid on Munchen-Gladbach) with the entire crew you listed except the 7th crew member listed is Jack O'Dowda. Jack was KIA mid March 1944 when Squadron Leader Eno and his crew where shot down by flak (Jack may have been a spare bod on that raid??). Do you have any information on Jack as a crew member along with your Grandfather? In fact Doug and Jack were friends - both went to B&G training in Mossbank Canada and I have photo's of Doug and Jack while at Mossbank.

I will email you the photo's that I have from Snaith - only about 5 or 6 with whatever information I have about them. Would much appreciate if you could do the same with any of your Snaith photos - kind of off thread so we can do this outside the forum (I'll contact you)

rmventuri

[pbeach]

rmventuri,
Look forward to making contact. With some assistance from regle, we can put some names to faces. Doug as you say is 1st on the left, 2nd on the left is "Ernie" Herrald (Pilot), 3rd from the left is "Bill" Higgs (F/Engineer), whilst the chap on the right is Stanley Gibbons (Navigator).

[Icare9]

Regle is still a bit shakey at the moment, so he may not be able to respond just yet. I'll let him know, although I don't think he was C Flight and therefore may not come up trumps this time.
Certainly a highly decorated crew, should be references in the London Gazette and Flight Archives, as well as in the well known book "Snaith Days".

[rmventuri]

Icare9, looks like Regle was in C flight - take a look at post 731 on page 37. I have the Snaith Days book and it is signed as Regle DFC and also signed by many others from 51 Squadron. I don't think Reg has told us about his DFC?

Hoping Reg is back on his game soon

[Icare9]

Regle was in C flight - take a look at post 731 on page 37

Ooops! My bad memory, but there are books shorter than this thread!

[pbeach]

6 of the crew all received DFC's
From the London Gazzette:
14th March 1944 (p. 1225 of Iss. 35592) Acting Flight Lieutenant Ernest Robert HERRALD
(122125), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, No. 51 Squadron.
This officer has completed a large number of sorties, involving attacks on a variety of strongly defended targets. In pressing home his attacks he has displayed great courage and determination; qualities which were well in evidence when he attacked Magdeburg recently. On the outward flight the bomber was attacked by a fighter. Owing to some defect, Flight Lieutenant Herrald's gunners were unable to fire their guns to defend their aircraft. During the next half-hour the enemy attacked repeatedly but, each time, Flight Lieutenant Herrald out-manoeuvred his adversary.
In the end the fighter was successfully evaded and Flight Lieutenant Herrald continued to the target and bombed it. His skill and resource throughout this spirited action were worthy of the highest praise.

The rest of the crew, Dick Sibley, Stan Gibbon, Alf Kell and Bill Higgs received their DFC's at the same time on the 6th June 1944 (p. 2700 of Issue 36550). On what I assume was the completion of a full operational tour.

I think I will let rmventuri explain who the other member of the crew is - now we know.

[regle]

It had always been a move that was very much disliked when the powers that be in Bomber Command decided to create a new Squadron, 578, in 4 Group. It was decided to transfer , from Snaith in S.Yorks,the whole of "C" Flight of 51 Sqdn. in 4 Group to form the nucleus of the new 578 Sqdn. to be based at nearby Burn , near Selby,S.Yorks. Despite the very angry protests, "C" Flight was officially designated as 578 Sqdn. even before the move to Burn was made At that time I was nearing the end of my Operational tour which had taken nearly eighteen months to complete due to my transfer from 105 Sqdn. to 51. and the time of converting on to "Heavies" in between various other postings (BAT (Beam Approach Transition )courses, night vision courses etc. before I was officially Operational again. During this time I flew Bostons, Mitchells and even a captured Junkers 88 before I was eventually posted to Snaith to continue my interrupted tour and made the majority of my Operations starting with the Hamburg raid of July 23rd. 1943 and eventually, finishing with three raids on Berlin,the last on Jan.28th.1944 . I had made the first of my trips on Mosquito's with 105 Sqdn. from Marham on Oct.27th.1942 (Power station, Antwerp, low level daylight), made an abortive Met flight at the astronomical height of 30,00ft to Hanover which had to be abandoned because of "con trails" and was then shot up ,wounded and crashed back at Marham after we had bombed the German aerodrome at Leeuwarden, Holland on Oct. 30th. and had the nose of the Mossie shot away and the port engine set on fire by the so called "Light " Flak of the ground defenses. I was in Ely Hospital for about two weeks and after a bit of sick leave I was back with the Sqdn. on a low level daylight to Courtrai Marshalling Yards, Belgium on Dec.14th.1942. I made the last of my nine "Ops" with "Mossies" to Aulnoye marshalling yards on January 13th.1943. and was then posted to 109 Sqdn. Wyton , Mosquitoe's to learn how to use "Oboe" and then as mentioned before , on various training courses Still determined to get on to something more substantial, I was eventually sent to Marston Moor, H.C.U (Heavy Conversion Unit) to crew up and was then posted to 51 Sqdn. Snaith where I continued with my tour of Ops. I was credited with 8 operational trips on Mosquito's and had completed 21 more with 51 and 578 on Halifaxes with only the last two trips of the tour being flown with 578 Sqdn. Even then we had not then moved to Burn and I flew my "C" Flight Halifax of 51. Sqdn. on Jan., both to Berlin on Jan.20th. and Jan 28th.1944 from Snaith for my last two trips but as I was now officialy with 578 when my award of the D.F.C. was announced it was as a member of 578 Sqdn. I had been taken off Ops one short of the required 30 due to the extended time that my tour had taken. The vast majority of my tour had been with 51 and although 578 had the privilege of later having the only Halifax V.C. of the war, (Cyril Barton who had trained with me in the States but a little later, and was a good friend also from the famous "C" Flight 51 Sqdn.), I always considered myself as being a 51 Sqdn. "bod" as did so many of the people that attended the 51 Squadron Reunions after the war. Ernie Herrald was Deputy Flight Commander to the beloved "Charle" Porter of "C" Flight but had finished his "ops" before the transfer to 578 took place. It was rare for crews to mingle in the little spare time available but there was always an affinity between my crew and Ernie's and we often went out together.. Ernie was one of the very few car owners, albeit a bit cramped to attempt 14 people, so he was very popular. We all had bikes and biked everywhere. It was also highly unusual for all but one of Ernie's crew to be decorated and bears witness to what was undoubtedly the most devastating period of the Bomber Commands assault on Germany's cities and towns . Midsummer 1943 until
March 1944 was the period that Bomber Command suffered it's highest losses. I was very proud of the fact that four of my crew were decorated but each and every one of them deserved it. The actual award was a bit of an anti-climax as the medal came through the letterbox one day with a very nice note from King George V1 "Greatly regretting that he was unable to personally present the medal that I had so well earned". I suggested to my M.P. some time ago that an invitation to the people who had not been to "Buck House" to receive their honours, because of the King's illness , could be given to one of the numerous "Garden Parties" that the Palace gives each year as some sort of recompense . He heartily agreed with me but I think that Bomber Command was a "No, No " by that time. I side with Edith Piaff's sentiments. Regle

[Fareastdriver]

Brakedwell. Any chance of you reducing your scan in Post 1845 so that the thread is within our computer screens.

[rmventuri]

At 0403 hrs 10 miles SE of Ossington at 4,000 feet aircraft collided with a Lancaster aircraft thought to be on reciprocal course. Some damage to Halifax. Aircraft was difficult to control and pilot found it possible only at a speed of 180 mph. Successful landing at that speed was made at Ossington.

Offline Icare9, pbeach and myself have been exchanging some emails - Icare9 picked this duty detail out of the Snaith Ops logs. As a result Doug banged his head against the turret and was briefly hospitalized.

I image landing a Halifax at 180 mph was comming in a little "hot" - what was your normal landing speed?

[regle]

180 mph was not far off the maximum speed fully loaded of the old Mark I Halifax. ! The recommended landing speed for the later Halifax 111 (Bristol Hercules engines ) taken from my tattered copy of Pilots Notes gives the following; Recommended speeds for the approach with full flap at 55,000lbs. Engine assisted....110(115)mph I.A.S. Glide120(125)mph I.A.S.
The "Mislanding" (sic) procedure is interesting...The aircraft shows no change of trim when throttles are opened with flaps and u/c down unless the elevator trim has been wound fully back. Climb away at 100(105)mph I.A.S., raise flaps to 40down and then raise u/c, then increase speed to 145-150 mph I.A.S. Note If propellors are set to 2,400 r.p.m., set fully up immediately should it be necessary to use more than plus 6lbs. boost.
As a matter of interest the maximum speed in Diving is given as 320mph.! I never saw that on the clock even upside down ! Regle

[PPRuNe Pop]

Brakedwell, sorry but I'm afraid you will have to re-size your screen shot. Its extending the page sideways and PPRuNe cannot handle that.

We can only accept a size no larger than than 850x850 - yours is 1460x526 and too wide for the page as you can see. You are able to adjust the size in Photobucket.

Thanks.

Rgds

PPP

BEags has saved us all the bother and his link is perfect. Thanks.

[BEagle]

Alternatively, as the image might not resize well, just click on this link: 1965 Little Baldon Hastings accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Little_Baldon_Hastings_accident)

[regle]

I have been trying to centre my picture for ages and now it is fine . My PC nearly went out the window several times. Regle. (Or perhaps it was me , after all ? )

[andyl999]

Can you list the aircraft types that you have flown?

Andy

[regle]

From my logbooks I have compiled a list of aircraft that I have flown.. My
criteria for "flown" is to have made a takeoff and landing physically unaided in the type irrespective of the time spent in the air. This covered the time when a B17 Flying Fortress landed at Marham when I was on Mosquito's. I found that the Pilot was a chap that I had trained with in Georgia USA and he invited me to do the honours from the second pilot's seat when he air tested it after repairs had been made. I remember it vividly, as it still remains in my mind as the heaviest aircraft on the controls that I had ever encountered. I was a passenger on the Constellation that took me out to India when I was going to take up the job of Instructor there . The Second Pilot fell ill after the stop at Cairo and, once again I was allowed to take off and eventually land at Bombay.
As regards the Mark of the aircraft I have generally counted them seperately where there was a marked difference in performance by the change in engines, shapes or size. Thus the DC3,4,6 7C & 10 were completely different aeroplanes whereas the Halifax1 & 2 were not but the 3 was chalk as to cheese with the advent of it's Bristol Hercules 16 engines. The short nosed Blenheim and the long nosed together with the abortion called the Bisley were altogether different but more or less equally bad . Anyway very roughly in chronological order , here goes;

1, Boeing Stearman.My first and most remembered aeroplane . The US training did not allow the luxury of an airspeed indicator or an altimeter until you went on to the next aeroplane so that you could learn to fly "by the seat of your pants". It worked too. What you had never had you did'nt miss. 2,Vultee BT13A, (The Vibrator!) 3,AT6 (Harvard) Quite nasty on landing if you were'nt careful,4,Airspeed Oxford, A good trainer that had to be watched all of the time. 5,Bristol Blenheim Mk1 (Short nosed), 6, Blenheim Mk1V (long nosed), 7, Bristol Bisley (Blenheim with a huge hole in the fuselage where they had removed the turret and left a [_] between the tail and the end of the cockpit fairing). 8,Mosquito Mk1V (unarmed light bomber) One of the finest aeroplanes that I have ever flown. 9,Miles Master, A lovely two seater that was the perfect trainer for Hurricanes and comprehensively used as a Squadron's taxi. It was even pressed into service in the Battle of Britain and acquitted itself well. 10,DH. Tiger Moth, The Station Commander's "Company car ", 11, B17 Flying Fortress.
12,Douglas Boston, First Tricycle u/c but useless operationally. Too slow and the three crew members completely isolated from one another with no chance of escape. 13, Captured Junkers 88 with escort of three Spitfires to avoid any mistakes despite RAF roundels. Very impressive with wonderful visibility and almost Mosquito speed. 14, N.A. Mitchell A bit better than the Boston but completely at the mercy of the German fighters . 15, H.P. Halifaxes 1 & 2, Slow and death traps until rudders were changed to avoid fatal Rudder locking. 16, HP Halifax 3, A completely different aeroplane and the equal of the Lancaster in everything except Bomb load but the survival rate of the Halifax crews as compared to the Lancaster more than compensated . The main spar crossing the interior of the Lancaster made escape from a stricken Lancaster almost impossible.
17, Bristol Beaufighter, I was asked to Air test one that had been repaired by our ground crews when it had landed after being shot up so I read Pilots notes and took it up. I found it a very stable rugged aeroplane but like a shire horse to a thoroughbred Mosquito but I could see why it made a very fine ground attack and night fighter. 18, Avro Anson. The Ju52 of the RAF but at least the one I flew had an electric U/C otherwise it was 120 turns of a handle to lower and raise the gear. 19,Vickers Wellington "Wimpy" after the Popeye strip in the Daily Mirror. Tough fabric and Barnes Wallis Geodetic and a good all round aeroplane in it's day. Was tested for towing Gliders for D.Day but measured more than a foot longer when it landed due to the geodetics. 20, Avro Lancaster. Superb to fly , light as a feather on the controls. I used to "limit fly " them at EFS to show what they could do and I would cut the engines at 8,000 ft. then pull the stick back until it would go no further and the Lanc . would stall, then drop the nose and without dropping a wing would pull up and stall again and I am sure that it would have hit the ground perfectly flat if you had continued. In a 60 degree bank I would do the same thing and the result was just the same. I would cheerfully roll or loop a Lanc if it had been permitted as I am sure that there would not have been any problem if properly executed. Pity about that main spar. It was difficult to climb over in flying gear to get to the cockpit even when stationary on the ground. 21, Bristol Buckmaster. Not a very pleasant aeroplane. Bristol never had a clue when it came to cockpit layouts and most of them were death traps to get in and out of. 22,Supermarine Spitfire 1X, One of the privileges of being a Tutor at the Empire Flying School was the "perks" of flying virtually any aeroplane that you fancied. I had to read the Pilots notes and pass a "cockpit check" before being let loose and then make a circuit and landing before having a real go. I think that it was the realisation of a boyhood dream when I found myself over Chippenham in a Spitfire and just had enough time to beat up the little farm where my wife, two small children and I "lived out" at a little place on the railway line to Calne called "Halt," as the train stopped there if you put your arm up to stop it ! I only logged about half an hour in a "Spit" but I shall never forget it. As they say in the Michelin Guide "Well worth a detour ". I am getting rather tired so will continue this tomorrow if you want me to. I have enjoyed some lovely moments in getting this down and I hope that you all have too. Regle

a

[Icare9]

Just take it steady. It looks as if you'll have to ration your time ith us, so little and regular will do us fine, not one large lump a week. We need to know you are still there at the end of the keyboard each day.

It might be an idea to allow one question a time for your response so as to avoid overtiring you.

Is "the lad" still with you?

[kevmusic]

I was as riveted to that post as to any other in this thread...thank you, Reg. These 'fresh' impresions of the wartime Allied aircraft armoury are as vivid and honest as any published in print so far.

[kookabat]

Please continue Reg - that's a fantastic 'potted history' of so many types we know about (and some I'd never heard of too).

Take your time and don't push yourself too hard on our behalf :ok:

[regle]

Icare9, the man with the most apt pseudonym; we are all issued with ration books for our time and some have more coupons in them than others. Carpe Diem ! And yes, the "lad", sixty one years old last March, is looking after me very well. Andy, too, keeps me on my toes. Please keep the reponses going . They are the lifeblood of this excellent Forum , which has given me so much pleasure. Thank you, Cliff and lets hear some good news from you. I hope that you are well and ready to regale us with some more of your tales, Reg

[Andu]

regle, were your comments about the Wellington stretching when towing a glider for real, or tongue in cheek? Was tested for towing Gliders for D.Day but measured more than a foot longer when it landed due to the geodetics.I can see the geodetic frame possibly stretching, but if that did in fact happen, what happened to the flight control runs etc? (I could see something like that having the potential for some 'really interesting' flight control problems for the pilot!)

[Old Hairy]

True. The Wimpey was really a cloth covered Ornithopter:eek:

[regle]

I have never heard of one before but thought that an OrniKopter was a licentious Liverpool FC fan . (Tongue well in cheek) and concerning that, the Wimpy "stretch" is one of those "True " stories with no facts behind it but was "sworn" to be true by many Glider Pilots.. Regle

[Old Hairy]

Reg. One of its manifestations was the "D" hatch just aft of the bombay,which used to float 4 to 6 inches above its seating in flight due to the slipstream. Many a W/Op going aft to wind out the trailing aerial on the portside,jumped down,and in that miniscule travel thought his last moments had come !!:uhoh: Always snagged in the F700.but due to fuselage stretch in flight ,became a "to be remembered item". cos it always worked on the ground.

[Madbob]

You really know how to hide your light under the proverbial bushel!

Pse check your PM's.

MB

[regle]

I have already replied to you in length but it must have gone astray. Sorry, but I was a tutor at E.F.S, the old Empire Central Flying School which became E.F.S. when the "C" became the Central Flying School at Little Rissington.The E.F.S was a sort of University type of establishment for high ranking Officers and civilians of many countries. Your relatives were at the Empire Test Pilots School , E.T.P.S a sister school and much sought after course as it was a "must" for any would be Test Pilot.
Good luck in your search. By the way, I have wondered where that light went for a long time but never thought of hiding it there. Regle

[Union Jack]

By the way, I have wondered where that light went for a long time but never thought of hiding it there

Regle - You, Sir, may be forgiven for not looking, because the references concerned are in the New Testament!:ok:

With kind regards and looking forward to the next list with great interest

Jack

[regle]

I get your point, Union Jack, but being very open minded I have read from many books and articles including the Koran, The New and Old Testaments and have learned much from all of them. I have always respected the right of the other person's point of view and found myself sympathising many times when I should'nt have been doing so.

Here are a few more thumbnail sketches of aircraft that I flew. I see that I flew a little German monoplane called a Bucker 181 that we used for communications whenI was at the EFS, I flew with a Sqdn. Ldr. Primavesi in one and also with a Wing Cdr. Dobree-Bell for familiarisation flights in early 1947. I remember it as a comfortable ,low wing, side by side ,two seater monoplane with a delightful performance. Losing count, by now but I see that No.29 on my list was my introduction to the jet age in my one and only flight in a Gloster Meteor 3 in the early part of 1947. I was airborne for an hour and remember that it scared me stiff by the phenomenal rate of climb compared with previous aircraft. I found it fairly easy to fly and very responsive on the controls but confined myself to keeping very close to the aerodrome as it was scary the distance it covered in a few minutes and I would have hated to make a fool of myself by getting lost so did a circuit or two and got out of it feeling very different somehow to what I had felt before about the jet age.

The next one on my list could not have been more different to the Meteor . It is marked in my log book as a Percival Prentice (prototype) so I assume that we had it at Hullavington as one of the tasks there was the writing of "Pilots Notes" for various aeroplanes as they came into the RAF. I flew it with a Wing Cdr. Chater for under an hour in May of '47 and remember absolutely nothing about it or the Wing Cdr. Two days later I was flying a Miles Martinet trainer which was also a prototype with a certain P/O Steff-Langston . On the 20th.May 1947 I flew an Oxford with S/Ldr. Cosby, the 22nd. a Harvard with Air Marshall Hampson and on the 28th. of May 1947 , I made my last flight in the RAF in the prototype of the brand new Vickers Viking Air liner which had been given to us at Hullavington to test and to comment on. I flew with a Wing Commander Foster and I remember how impressed we both were with the sheer luxury of the interior compared with what we had been used to since I joined the RAF in October 1940. It even had a considerable improvement on the old Elsan which we duly christened with great gusto ! I had flown 32 types of aeroplane ( I did'nt count the two Gliders that I soloed on , the Kirby Kite and the Kirby Cadet (Or was it Kadett ?) My total hours were 1,527:25 minutes. I will continue with the next lot soon.

[Icare9]

Considering that the Viking was a (slight) reworking of the Wellington with a new roomy fuselage, I'm sure you were surprised that the basic design was capable of such development, evolving further into the Varsity and Valetta.

A pity you never got your hands on the Vickers Windsor (Did Vickers purposely choose names that would be difficult for the Chermans to pronounce correctly)?
Four main undercarriage legs!! A pity it didn't get into service, I wonder how it compared to the Lincoln.

[regle]

Talking of Vickers and the Germans. The Vickers Viking ?. It didn't help Air India when they got it. There is,also, a "Windsor" chair which has, presumably, four legs so why (K)not ?. Regle

[BEagle]

The late 'farmer' John Steele once told me of his experience in the back of a Viking in the 1950s. He was on his way back from Paris to Blackbushe on a scheduled airline flight after having been to watch an England-France rugby match. Approaching Blackbushe, there was a change in noise level and an unexpected yaw... Being an A1 QFI, this naturally attracted his attention!

Peering out of the window, he noticed that one of the props had been feathered.

So he wandered up to the front and asked what was going on.

"Ah, we're a bit early, so I'm doing a practice single-engine approach and overshoot. Haven't done one for a while and I've got a check ride coming up next week...."

"Hmmm", replied John, "Stewardess, another gin and tonic please....a large one, I think!"

Fortunately it all went OK. I guess things were a bit different back then!

[Icare9]

A bit concerned, are things OK, Cliff?
We could do with an update on what responses you had with trying to contact Cherman vebsites!! I know you've been pootling around in the beach buggy, but we need to know you're still around!!
Without you, this thread would never have become legendary!

[tow1709]

We now noticed that 'Noball' targets were no longer our prime objectives. More and more we were attacking radar stations and doing armed recco operations. Although of course we did not know it, this was the run up to D-Day. We were knocking out as many radar stations as possible - mainly to blind the enemy as to the approach of an invasion fleet but also to confuse the issue by attacking radar site miles from any projected landing sites.

On May 20th myself and F/O Eric Harbutt were detailed to cooperate with the G.C.I. (Ground Controlled Interception) controllers to calibrate some new RDF (Radio Direction Finding i.e. Radar) stations. We were sent off in opposite directions; I was sent east up the English Channel and Eric was sent west. After about 15 minutes, we were told to change frequencies on our radios so that we were no longer in contact with one another but each of us only with his own controller. I was given several vectors to fly and was told to fly at exactly 5000 feet. The final vector was due west. The controller then told me to look out for my target (Eric) dead ahead and 500 feet above. For several minutes I strained my eyes to pick up this aircraft that was approaching me. Suddenly I saw this little dot which very rapidly became a head-on view of a Typhoon which almost immediately shot overhead, missing me by what seemed to be inches. The GCI was perfect but unfortunately it seemed that our altimeters had not been adjusted exactly the same and, although Eric was told to fly at 5500 feet,which he did according to his instrument, our vertical separation was only some 100 feet! He never saw me at all, since I was hidden by the nose of his aircraft. Our combined approach speed was some 800 mph and, at that speed, over 1000 feet per second, there was not much time to react from the moment of sighting until the moment of passing. Fortunately the controllers were satisfied with the one pass and we did not have to repeat the experience!

Next day I led an armed recco. We approached the French coast and had began our climb up, reaching about 3000 feet when my number two suddenly called "Bandits two o'clock below". I looked down to my right and spotted two aircraft heading out from the French coast and about 1000 feet below us. They were too far away to identify but I called 'Tally-Ho' and peeled off into an attacking dive. As we came within range the pilots of the 'bandits' obviously saw us and broke violently - one each way. This presented me with a perfect plan view of an American Thunderbolt! I immediately called out on the R/T 'Friendlies, Friendlies' and pulled round to try to formate on them. It took a few minutes of milling around until we managed to get alongside the Thunderbolts so that they could see our markings. We finished up waggling our wings at each other and we were just about to depart and carry on with our operation when I received a call from base telling me to look out for two American Thunderbolts who were short of fuel and needed to be escorted back to the coast in case one or both of them had to bail out or ditch if they ran out of fuel.

We were told to switch to channel 'C' and contact the Thunderbolts which I did. I called 'American Thunderbolt R - Roger. This is RAF Typhoon HF-P on your starboard wing. Be advised that we are to escort you to the English coast. Please formate and we will lead you to the nearest airfield'. The reply I received was certainly not correct R/T procedure; it went something like: 'Jesus Christ man, you damn near scared the sh*t out of me back there. I'll stick to your wing, but I think I am running on fumes so keep tabs on me in case I faze out'.

Just then, the ground control called up and gave us a course to steer for Tangmere which was our closest airfield. We escorted the two Thunderbolts back, and saw them safely land then returned to Thorney Island. Next day the two pilots, a Captain and a First Lieutenant and their C.O., a Colonel, arrived in a chauffeur-driven American staff car to come and say thank-you. Needless to say, a drunken mess party ensued and they eventually left around midnight. As one of the pilots confided in me, it had been considered that they would fly over from their base, but they were pretty sure that there would be a party and they did not want to be 'party-poopers' by having to refuse to drink if they were flying back. Fortunately we were also on 'stand-down', so could afford to whoop it up as we would not be flying again until the 24th.

On that date we started our series of attacks on radar stations with an attempt against the site on Cap d'Antifer north of Le Havre. Unfortunately the cloud was 10/10 over the target area, and we could not attack. Next day was an unusual operation in that we attacked two radar sites on the same trip. The first just on the northern outskirts of Boulogne and the second at Hardelot just south of Boulogne. Both were our first low level attacks. Since we knew that Boulogne would obviously be heavily defended the C.O. decided that we would fly inland well north of Boulogne, turn back and pick up the railway track then follow this down to just south of Wimereux when we would turn out to the coast and hopefully hit it at the site of the radar station. We would then attack with cannon and fire four of our eight rockets. After the attack we would carry on heading straight out to sea, turn south when out of site of the coast, fly DR (Dead Reckoning) until we were opposite Hardelot and then turn into the coast again where, once again, we would hopefully strike our target and once again attack using cannon and our remaining four rockets.

Strange as it may seem everything worked out perfectly. The defences at Boulogne were caught by surprise and most of us had completed our attacks before the flak started. When it did, it was a case of better late than never and we were followed out to sea by a veritable hail of 20 and 40mm tracer. The gunners at Hardelot were also not fully alert, perhaps they had been told of the attack on Boulogne and had assumed that that was it for the day. In any case we once again managed to start our attack before the ground defences reacted. Since this time we were coming in from the sea the gunners could see us much earlier than the Boulogne defences were able to and the flak therefore started much sooner. Luckily there was not such a concentration of guns and the overall effect was much more normal. Nobody was hit and both stations were put out of action for at least 24 hours.

A day off for me and then another radar station. This one was a 'Freya' installation which had an enormous moveable antenna which was the most vulnerable part of the station. The site was at Fruges but we were unable to attack due to very thick haze. Although the leader took us down to 2000 feet we could not find the target and had to give up. Whilst we were looking for the target it seemed that every German gunner for miles was determined to get a shot at us and we seemed to be flying through a continuous barrage. This was made all the more impressive by the thick haze which hid the ground except almost vertically below and accentuated the brightness of the tracer which would suddenly appear in mid-air.

Once again, nobody was hit and we brought our rockets back. I was spare man on a show the next day, but nobody turned back so I just acquired another 40 minutes Typhoon time.

More soon ==TOW

[kookabat]

Sorry to drag this back to the bomber boys :E but I have a question for Cliff-the-engineer.

On some modern types when the hydraulics are off for a while the flaps droop. Can you remember, when arriving at a Lancaster prior to flight, were the flaps typically up or had they drooped down?

Adam

[andyl999]

Just to let you know, Reg has gone into hospital again, so he can't gain access to his favourite webpage (PPRUNERS).

When I have more information I will post it.

Regards Andy

[Union Jack]

Andy

Many thanks for keeping us posted - I am sure that you will be reminding Reg that we are thinking of him, and wishing him well.

Jack

[andyl999]

Yes of course I will tell Reg, although our conversations are quite short, I have just heard today that he is moving from a Hospital to a Hospice.

If any of you want the address to send a card just PM me and I will do my best.

Regards Andy

[fredjhh]

I Would Like To Send Reg A Letter. I Have E-mailed Him But Had No Recent Reply. How Do I "pm" You For His Address? I Have His 'phone Number But Not His Address. Fredjhh

[glad rag]

Chin up Reg, we're all thinking of you just now.:D:D

Glad Rag.

[glad rag]

Chin up Reg, we're all thinking of you just now.:D:D

Glad Rag.

[CoodaShooda]

Andy

Will you please pass on to Reg this Australian's thanks and best wishes.

Thanks for both a magnificent life well lived and his contribution to this thread.

Best wishes for his improved health and many more years to come.

[Icare9]

Andy, tell Reg to set "the lad" up with access, so he can keep us up to speed with Reg's progress (and so he can dictate his great memoirs for us!!)
Regards, Kevin

[andyl999]

I have sent you a PM, just look on the top RHS of the page, enter your username and password, then you will have to copy a further sort of password that the PPRUNE webpage will display to you, that should log you in (as fredjhh).

Then if you look at the Top RHS of the page again you should see welcome fredjhh underneath that click on "private messages" and you should see my message.

Reg is currently in hospital whilst his PC is at home, hence he cannot answer emails at this time.

Hope that helps, Regards Andy

[Dundiggin']

Dear Reggie,
Get well soon mon brave - we're all missing the banter.....:}

[Biggles78]

Have just read post #1863. Andyl999, could you please pass on to Regle, "Bloody hell, what a type hog!! I deeply envy the different types you have flown but not what you had to go through to do it. I am afraid I would lack the testicular fortitude of the men and women of your generation."

Tow1709, as everyone has said or thought, your memories posted here are just fantastic. They broke the mould when they made you guys.

Cliffnemo, the devil who started this magnificent thread an extra big THANK YOU as Tow and Reg may not have added their important pieces of history to this thread.

Thank you to all who have added to this thread and added to my education of such an important era for us. Bob Doe said, in the BBC (?) TV program about learning to fly a Spitfire, that they just wanted to be remembered. With threads like this, you shall all be remembered and never forgotten. :D :D :D :D :D

[BEagle]

Well put, Biggles78.

Very best wishes, Regle!

[LowNSlow]

I'll second Biggles 78's sentiments.

Best wishes and good luck Regle.

[mustpost]

Although the old man fought in the same conflict and told me quite a lot about his own varied experiences, the amount of detail here is truly humbling.
'Well done guys' does not even begin to say it,:D:D:D

[pbeach]

I too would like to send my regards to Reg and hope he is OK. As Reg was someone who was in C Flight 51 Squadron, his memories have been invaluable to me in my research.
I have been in touch with Ernie Herrald's family and have forwarded to them all of rmventuri's pictures which (for obvious reasons) they have never seen.

[green granite]

Get better quickly Regle

[cliffnemo]

Sorry I haven’t answered any questions recently, but initially I thought I would have a rest while so many interesting items were being posted, and lately after an hour or so on my computer I have had an eye problem. This resulted in a feeling as if my eyes were full of sand. Hopefully this problem will be overcome during the next week.

First of all I wish to add to all your messages wishing Reg a speedy recovery.. Get well quickly Reg, but take it easy until you are fully recovered
On some modern types when the hydraulics are off for a while the flaps droop. Can you remember, when arriving at a Lancaster prior to flight, were the flaps typically up or had they drooped down?

kook bat





Adam .As far as I know the flaps were always up whilst ‘on the dispersal.’ Only twice did the engineer alter flaps.. After take off on the command ‘flap in by five’ and on final check before switching off engines when engineers final check included raise flaps. I think that if we had arrived at ‘dispersal’ and found the flaps down, we would have informed ‘Chiefy’.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff, wherefore at thou?
A bit concerned, are things OK, Cliff?
We could do with an update on what responses you had with trying to contact Cherman vebsites!!

Yes Kevin I’ m O.k thanks for inquiring . My P.M to you has hopefully explained.

With regard to the German exercise nothing positive emerged , although I received quite a few pleasant replies I have a distinct feeling they felt they might get a ‘rough ride’, despite my assurance that this is very friendly thread , that we were kindred spirits., and could interpret their posts. However I know the feeling well. Only a ‘clot’ would stick his neck out and say where the flaps were sixty years ago. (Or Pilot Officer Prune).
-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Union Jack]

This resulted in a feeling as if my eyes were full of sand

Cliff - Are you sure that you haven't been out on that beach buggy without your goggles?:)

Great to hear you are doing well and hope that your eyes will settle down, and that we will hear more from you, not least as the instigator and catalyst for this wonderful thread - we can't have both you and Reg offline simultaneously!:ok:

Jack

[Molemot]

Cliff..the eye problem is probably arc eye; either stop welding the buggy or buy one of those lovely automatic welding hats like I did!!

Hope the eyes sort themselves out quickly....and best wishes to Reg, too.

JD

[kookabat]

Echoing the sentiments of all here - come back soon, Reg, but not too soon. Wait until you've properly recovered... we can wait!

Cliff,
Thanks for that. Reason for asking was that I've commissioned a friend to paint me a picture of my great uncle's aircraft sitting on dispersal as the crew arrive for one of their operations. Perhaps I'm thinking about it too much, perhaps I'm not, but I'm trying to give Steve enough info to go on that is at least partly based on plausible facts to make it as realistic as possible...

Bob was impressed by the beach buggy I think!

Regards,
Adam

[andyl999]

I learned late last night that my dear friend (and best friend) Reg selected 15 degrees flap, put the engines on full power and made just the most perfect take-off,
undercarriage up and soaring up into the night sky for a never ending flight.

He took off at approximately 20:30hrs Sunday 1st August, according to the nurse that was with him, he looked out of the window and up into the sky, what a great aviator?

I shall always remember and treasure the memories of long telephone conversations which went on for hours and Reg’s phone calls to me to sort out a computer problem, my favourite saying was always “If you can land a Jumbo jet I’m sure Reg you can drive a computer!” we always ended up with a chuckle.

His family has allowed me to let you know that his funeral will be held at 11am 11th August at St Mary’s Church, Dover CT161BY.

Andy

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss278/regle999/RAF/1-091009.jpg

per ardua ad astra

[Union Jack]

The saddest news I have heard for a long time - bless you, Reg, as you take your last flight and many thanks for everything you have contributed to this wonderful thread.

I know that we are sometimes discouraged from sending condolences to those we do not know personally, but I hope that it help's Reg's family to know that many people like me are thinking of them and wishing them well at this sad time as we cherish the memory of their outstanding Father.

Must go now - I seem to have got something in my eye.....



Jack

[forget]

As Reg said only last month - "We are all issued with ration books for our time and some have more coupons in them than others".

The last of Reg's many many coupons has now been stamped. Never met him, but I won't forget him.

[ricardian]

Sad news, I thoroughly enjoyed reading Reg's reminiscences.

[Icare9]

God speed, Reg, at least it was quick.
I shall have a beer or two whilst you have a reunion party with all your chums who went before! I'm glad to have known you even if it was too short a time.
Safe landing at the Pearly Gates. RIP

[LowNSlow]

andyl999 please pass on my condolences to Reg's family. I never met the man but have spent loads of time enjoying his posts on this thread and have every respect for him and his deeds.

[brakedwell]

Cheers Reg, you had a magnificent innings.

[fredjhh]

With deepest sympathy on the death of an old friend.
From a former pilot of 51 Squadron, of Reg's era.
fredjhh.

[Madbob]

I like many PPRuNne'rs never had the good fortune to have known Reg. I too join Union Jack, Andy et al in sending my condolences to his family. I did exchange the occasional pm and wish that I had had the chance to have met him. This great thread won't be the same without his many and always well-informed, modest and humourous contributions.

A sad day. MB :(

[Vitesse]

Condolences to Reg's family and friends.

RIP Regle.

[green granite]

Condolences to all his family and friends. I shall miss his stories. http://209.85.48.8/1889/52/emo/saddy.gif

[Spartacan]

Oh dear, what a sad bit of news. Reg sent me a comic addendum to one of his anecdotes and I fell off my chair laughing. Pure aircrew humour. So glad to have made a brief 'virtual' acquaintance with him.

What a smashing type.

God speed Captain Regle !

[Wander00]

RIP

Per Ardua ad Astra

Safe landing

[matkat]

Very sad news indeed, I am based in Bergen op zoom at present and have twice visited the war cemetary/s here, it is truly moving to read the gravestones of so many young and brave men who lie here and it is with huge respect to men like Reg and those that did not return I write this, to visit these graves to pay respects to those is something that is hard to describe My wife who has been visiting me also wanted to go there and it was with tears in our eyes that we departed.
RIP Reg and to all others who either never came back or are still here, thank you and we shall never forget your sacrifice.

[FinelyChopped]

Blue skies, Regle. Thanks for your memories.

[RFCC]

I would just like to express my deepest sympathy to all of Reg's family. It was a pleasure to read his (always) interesting and informative posts.

Thanks Reg.

[johnfairr]

Stop it ,I love it !
Johnfairr, your Father will be smiling away somewhere. In the account so far I have been taken back 69 years as "plus ca change " etc, It was the same then as it is now. I think that he was very lucky to eventually get enlisted as aircrew under the Conscription Act as they could have sent him anywhere, even down the mines. It is why most people ,like myself volunteered as soon as they were able, on attaining 18 , in order to get the Service that you wanted. You had a slight advantage over the Interviewing Officer because you could say "No" and walk out if you were not offered the Service and trade that you wanted. From the age of 20 that "edge" disappeared. My Interviewing Officer did his utmost to persuade me that being a Navigator was the equivalent of the Islamic promise of a First Class ticket to an eventual Paradise of Houris and such delights but I , and this was not typical of me at the age of eighteen, stood my ground and said "I want to be a Pilot or I shall walk out ,Sir" (He was a fiery Group Captain!). Eventually he gave in and wished me luck and added "You are the only Jew that I have met that persecutes Christians. God Help us ! " and then started laughing. He would probably have been prosecuted in this Nanny State ,but I was cock a hoop . Your Father and I must have been around at the same time, as I enlisted around August 1940 but was not called up until October and then had to perform "Ground Duties" .....Euphemism for cleaning Sgts. Mess Bogs" until ITW Jan. 1941... Pages 13 onwards in PPRuNe. It really is a fine thing that you are doing . All the very best,Regle.

This was posted by regle when I started "A Spitfire Pilot" on this thread. I imagine my Old Man and Reg are having a few beers togther right now. Condolences to the family, far and wide - he was a fine chap.

[mustpost]

Happy landings, Reg...

[boguing]

Damn. It's always too soon. A candle is burning here. I suggested something like this written documentary to my Father - when the end was probably in sight. He wouldn't do it. A pity. I'd love to have been able to thank him for what he did. So, instead, thanks Regie. The rest of you. Get writing.

[Union Jack]

I meant to say, when I recorded my sadness at Reg's passing earlier today, that I hope very much indeed that someone who has the right contacts might be able to arrange something special in the air over Dover at about noon on Thursday 11 August ....... please!:ok:

Jack

[lasernigel]

God Bless Regle your stories to us all were amazing. May you still soar up into the heights.:ok:

[kookabat]

If the stories on this thread are anything to go by, Reg, yours was a life well lived.

We'll miss the banter. :{

[fltlt]

Most of the current generation have no idea how fortunate we and they all are, to have had people of Reg's calibre defend our freedom. May this thread stand forever as a testament to their collective sacrifice.

[rmventuri]

Reg, you will be greatly missed.

I, as many, only knew you through this fabulous forum. The 51 squadron connection while researching my uncle was a needle in a haystack. I have been so fortunate to “live” some of his brief life experiences through your spine tingling stories.

Best wishes to the Levy family at this time of great loss. The greatest generation has lost another hero.

Rodger

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

All I can say, after following Reg's stories, is that the one or two times I had reason to have comms with him, he came across as a real Gentleman.

Not Aviation related I know, but just an impression I got of someone to look up to.

My grandad who brought me up was of a similar generation (pre & ww2 bomber command aircrew)

Well done, and Clear skies Reg

[glad rag]

Saddened but not, in the end, shocked. Just glad that it was quick.

Go punch a hole in them clouds tiger.

Damn, my bad eye is watering now you buggha Reg, bet your smiling.

gloria finis.

[7x7]

I sincerely hope I'll be able to punch out lucid and highly entertaining stories of my (not so nearly exciting) youth as Reg was able to right up to the end.

How lucky are we all that he shared those stories with us before he went.

RiP Reg.

[kevmusic]

Thank you Reg, for pouring those remarkable stories out - towards the end, I think you knew you didn't have long. God bless and RIP.

[Sandisondaughter]

My father - Sandy Sandison - and family send deepest sympathy and best wishes to Reg's family. Dad was a fellow member of Class 42A of the Arnold Scheme and followed Reg's forum posts with great interest. We shall greatly miss Reg.

[Dan Gerous]

Reg, never met or knew you, but enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. History books can give us dates, facts and figures, but you, along with all the others who have contributed to this thread, have put a human face to the war.

My condolences, and respect to your family.
Danny

[forget]

Hmmm. Funeral at Dover, 11 o'clock on the 11th. If you stretch things a little the BBMF is 'in the area', maybe even closer than I think with a short dog-leg and positioning flights thrown in.

It won't be long before the opportunity of a fly-by at a WWII flier's funeral is gone forever. Knock knock Coningsby.

09 August. Scampton Display.
11 August. (11.30. Swing by Reg's funeral.) Odiham Display. 14:30

[tilleydog1]

Thank you Reg for the time you spent on this forum and the history lessons you have left for the next generation.
RIP

[fredjhh]

I must be one of the very few members of this Thread who knew Reg.
He joined 51 Squadron just after a close encounter with heavy Flak put paid to my membership of the Squadron, but we met frequently at re-unions, up to 12 years ago. My only recent contact with him was by 'phone.
Reg was certainly one of the "Great Ones," and will be sadly missed.
When I look at the Elvington Halifax, or see a Nimrod at an airshow, I think of old comrades and now Reg is added to that list. RIP.
fredjhh

[tow1709]

I sent Reg a PM a few months ago to ask him if he had known my Dad who was at the same school (The Liverpool Institute), at about the same time, but a couple of years ahead. Here was his reply, containing a few reminiscences that I am sure he would not mind me sharing with you all ...

Hello and nice to have a fellow Liverpudlian on the Forum. No, I can't say that I remember the name but if he was two years older that would have made a huge difference at that age . My Wife was born Oct. 30th. 1919 and I was born the 8th. May 1922. My Father was also at the Institute (He was born Sept 1900) and was also in the RAF (Signals Officer) at the same time as my Wife (F/Sgt. Discip. !) and myself.. a mere Sgt.Pilot outanked by my Father and my Wife ! I was at the Inny until about 1934 when we moved to Blackpool . I was in Miss Makin's form if that name is familiar.
We moved to Birkenhead but I still went to school every day from there on the Underground or the Ferry. My Father had the Scala Cinema in Birkenhead and my Uncle Alf had the Futurist and the Scala in Lime st. Liverpool. so I was alright for entertainment especially as my Auntie Muriel was the actual Auntie Muriel on the BBC (2LO in those days and broadcast from over the Kardomah Cafe )with "The Children's Hour and and a weekly page "Auntie Muriel's Treasure Chest " with Wafer the Cat in the "Liverpool Echo. My Wife died just over four years ago but we had a wonderful 62 years of a very exciting marriage. I hope that you are enjoying the Forum. I only learned how to use the computer a year ago but am thoroughly enjoying it. All the best and keep in touch with me. Reg Levy (Regle)

My condolences to Reg's family and friends. TOW

[andyl999]

Forget, good idea:-

Hmmm. Funeral at Dover, 11 o'clock on the 11th. If you stretch things a little the BBMF is 'in the area', maybe even closer than I think with a short dog-leg and positioning flights thrown in.

It won't be long before the opportunity of a fly-by at a WWII flier's funeral is gone forever. Knock knock Coningsby.

09 August. Scampton Display.
11 August. (11.30. Swing by Reg's funeral.) Odiham Display. 14:30

We are up to Air Commmador level but it does not look good, if anyone on the forum knows where we can pull a few strings?

Andy

[Union Jack]

Well done Andy - exactly what I was driving at in Post 1921.

Keep up the pressure and, if there's no joy with BBMF, don't forget that the man himself told us less than a month ago at the end of Post 1863:

' I think that it was the realisation of a boyhood dream when I found myself over Chippenham in a Spitfire and just had enough time to beat up the little farm where my wife, two small children and I "lived out" at a little place on the railway line to Calne called "Halt," as the train stopped there if you put your arm up to stop it ! I only logged about half an hour in a "Spit" but I shall never forget it. As they say in the Michelin Guide "Well worth a detour "'

Captain Reg Levy DFC is certainly worth a detour .....

Jack

[Wander00]

Good luck to those with "the clout". Cliff Spink is not around in a Spitfire that day, is he? Hope a rabbit, Merlin powered, or a 9-ship (or even the airborne "mange", whatever his post is called these days), is pulled from the hat!

[cliffnemo]

I can't express my feelings when I heard the news about Reg, but they were akin to those one feels at the loss of a best friend even though he was 'a virtual friend' . A perfect example for today's younger generation, and a perfect gentleman.

Andy.Please give my condolences, and express my sympathy to all the family

CLIFFNEMO

[andyl999]

Cliff, Reg's Son, Peter is reading this thread.

Regards Andy

[clear to land]

An obituary was published in todays (5/8) New York Times for Captain Levy. It appears to be quite well written, although is primarily about what happened to him on his 50th birthday.

On a personal note, Regles writings here reflect the incredible bravery, courage and humility of a real hero. My condolences to all the loved ones he has left behind, and my thanks for a life well lived. Lest we forget.

[Union Jack]

Very many thanks Clear to Land, and here it is, with some fascinating additions to what Reg himself told us:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/world/europe/05levy.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

Over to you Times and Telegraph ......

Jack

[airborne_artist]

Reg's obit in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/world/europe/05levy.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/08/05/world/LEVY1-obit/LEVY1-obit-popup.jpg

Reg - at the end of the hijack

[dogle]

The NY Times obituary is accessible without registration here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/world/europe/05levy.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries

One of many others:
Sabena pilot Captain Reginald Levy dies at 88 (http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=183700)

[pbeach]

I can only echo rmventuri's comments, although in my case I was researching my Grandfather also 51 Squadron, C Flight. I can only thank him for enlightening and entertaining with all the memories and stories. He will be much missed.

[TommyOv]

Cliff, Reg's Son, Peter is reading this thread.

Regards AndyPeter, deepest regret on your father's passing.

But what a life!

Like most on this forum my connection with Reg was only virtual, yet I consider myself lucky to have been able to interact with people such as Reg at all. I hope that reading this thread and seeing the wisdom and stories passed on by Reg to his (very eager!) audience brings you some comfort.

Kind regards to you and your family,

Tom

[goofer3]

Along with everone else my condolences to Reg's family. I am so glad he was able to pass on his stories. By this means he, and many others, will not be forgotten. "We will remember them".

[airborne_artist]

A very fine obituary of Reg in The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/air-force-obituaries/7931232/Reginald-Levy.html)

[regle]

Andy is right, I (Peter, Reg's son) am following the thread and am humbled by the response both from you, the afficionados of this site, and by the international press coverage which seems to be escalating at a great rate of knots.
Dad is sorely missed by me and the rest of the family but I can truly say that the support and fellowship of people such as you guys (and gals) is tremendous and is helping to ease the pain.
Keep up the good work and continue to show good comeradeship to each other as you have to my Dad.
Thank you all,

Regle's son

[7x7]

That's one hell of an obit. in 'The Telegraph'. I'll admit to a very large lump in the throat as I read it.

Peter, I doubt you need to me to tell you this, but you and all your family should be extremely proud of your father.

[Madbob]

Hat's off to the Daily Telegraph - a fine obit to a great man. Peter, you are a lucky man to have had so fine a father. You and you family have every reason to be sad at his passing, but also reasons to be so proud.

MB

[Wander00]

Some guy! I remember a BBC Children's Hour programme series called "I'm Proud of my Father". Add your Dad to the list.

RIP

[alanwhit]

Hello Peter and family. My condolances on loosing such a great father and of course your mother. we had some great times in Brussels and some super stories from you dad, however I did not realise until to-day what a super hero he was. He beats Batman all the way. God bless you and all the family. Alan Whitlock.

[regle]

Hi Alan how are you? It's been a while are you still riding a bike? It must have three wheels if you are. Will we see you in Belgium one of these days?

[Smeagol]

I have only recently found this thread and hav, when time allows, been reading through it. Yesterday I read the column in the Telegraph and realised that the Reginald Levy featured was 'Regle' from this thread, whose postings had informed me, amused me and humbled me in equal amounts.

I do not write condoloncies to people I do not know and have never met.

This is different.

I am sure I speak for all who have read this thread when I say that we will all be with you in spirit on the 11th.

[Tabby Badger]

I have been reading Reg's story since he began relating it, impatient for each new installment, and found myself shocked by the profound sense of loss I experienced for somebody I never knew.

His fame spread far and wide. Here is the obit from today's Los Angeles Times:

Obituaries: Reginald Levy, Derf Scratch, Robert Tucker - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-passings-20100808,0,3695363.story)

As a 25 year veteran of the RAF, inspired to join by the example of Reg's generation, his story, those of other contributors to this thread and the books they recommended, gave me a much deeper understanding of the courage and dedication of those who had made the RAF an organization of which I was always immensely proud to declare myself a member; a pride I carry to this day.

Thank you, Reg. :D

TB

[andyl999]

Dear PPRUNers,

Just a slight correction in timing, I originally advised that the funeral was taking place at St Marys at 11:00am it's actually 11:15am.

Regards Andy

[elyvator]

See first comment, from one Reginald Levy DFC:

Blackpool 3 Cardiff 2 - full match report - Blackpool Today (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/match-reports/Blackpool-3-Cardiff-2-.6321023.jp)

"I was a Bomber Command Mosquito and Halifax pilot during the war and was so well looked after by the team when they were playing near me. During and after the war, whilst still in the RAF I was always given tickets by Sam Jones, that lovely Irish half back , fellow RAF man Stan Mortensen and I still supported Blackpool and actually had tickets for that first Cup final in 1948 but had to fly to India on the very day of the Final and my Wife and Brotherin law saw their terrific battle with Man. Utd. It is still considered as the finest football final ever although Blackpool lost. I flew all my life until I was sixty and actually flew the Blacxkpool team back from Belgium when they had been over there to play Anderlecht. It was my pleasure to introduce my children to the wonderful Joe Smith, still their manager at that time. I later became great friends with Stan Matthews whom I encountered in a street in Johannesburg where I was based flying up to Europe. He was training local black South Africans and we became great friends. he invited me and my Wife to a dinner given in his honour by the S.African Football Association and Jackie Mudie was there and I have some lovely pictures and also a bottle of South African Wine made in Stan's honour with the contents still unopened and a special label with Sta..."

[cliffnemo]

I have just received an email from Mike Igglesden (membership sec: 6 B.F.T.S )which proves the B.F.T.S associations are still active, and reproduce it below.

FROM FREDA FREEMAN U.S.A
No 1 B.F.T.S Terrel , Texas Museum.
"Mike: This invitation would have been mailed to you in a proper form but did not have your mailing address. You and other members of No. 6 BFTS are invited to attend our festivities in September. Paula Denson & her husband and Floyd Sherrod and I believe his spouse will be coming from Ponca City . We hope that more from BFTS 6 will do so! Our future plans for this BFTS Museum is to include the story of all six of the schools under one roof. We realize that each individual school has a part of a museum in their towns but to have the complete story of the unique, important and historical part the six schools played in the WWII victories would be wonderful!! If you have a roster of surviving members we would appreciate it. We have the roster for #5 and #3 and of course #1 which we would be happy to share with you.
Best Regards,
Freda Freeman.

I will endeavor to resume my story , this week, as some Pruners may want to know what happened to those of us who were made redundant after 'cessation of hostilities'.
Think my last contribution finished before V.J day when we were waiting for posting to the Far East. In the mean time can any one remember the names of those who said they would contribute, and didn't ?. If you do then give me names and I will contact and them and try to encourage them to contribute.

[Icare9]

Cliff, thanks for picking up the baton again and with some little luck you can inspire others to breathe new life into this thread, for which we all owe you a tremendous debt for having started it, so many posts ago.

I am sure that everyone will do their utmost to provide contact details of that dwindling band of ordinary men accomplishing extra ordinary feats when it seemed all the world was against them.

[Union Jack]

As Reg's last Church Parade took place yesterday at Dover, I just wanted to say that I was thinking of him and his family especially. He has given both us and them quite the most marvellous tour d'horizon of a wonderful life well-lived and, as his family read and re-read the outstanding obituaries from around the world, it is quite extraordinary for them and us as yet another interesting snippet of previously unknown information comes forward to shed even more light on the career of this extraordinary, yet modest, man.

Incidentally, and with reference to the amazing obituaries and some of the comments about the subject of medal ribbons on other threads, I had to smile when I saw in the Daily Telegraph photograph of his retirement day in 1981 that Reg was clearly more than happy to wear his full set of medal ribbons on his Sabena uniform!

Bless you, Reg, and your family, and my very grateful thanks for everything you contributed to this wonderful thread, and for your very cheerful, amusing and enlightening PMs.

Jack

[robsack15]

Just joined this website located from Google.
I joined the RAF in Sept.1942 as a volunteer.
Training at Sywell on Tigers and later in Canada, finishing at 514 Sqdn. Waterbeach, Cambs. on Lancasters. 1945 extended my service for 18 moths. Joined 24 Reserve flying school at Rochester.
Later went back to RAF for 2 years on Lancasters and Lincolns.
Later volunteered for special 3 months to fly Spitfires and Vampires in spite of being a heavy bomber pilot - Korean War - but never required.
Joined the civil airlines. Skyways, Euravia, Britannia, Transglobe, Tradewinds, then retirement.

Those interested please mail me.

[LowNSlow]

Welcome to Rob. I for one look forward to reading your experiences.

[Madbob]

Welcome to PPRuNe Robsack. There are bound to be many threads (not only this military aircrew forum) to which your contibutions will be most welcome.

I'm not your vintage (my time in the RAF was '79-89) but my father went through 6 EFTS at Sywell in 1941, (the CFI was a Wg Cdr Mackenzie) and then was posted to 21 EFTS at Booker as the first step to becoming a QFI.

He then went to Canada to 39 SFTS at Swift Current in 1942 on Harvards, then did the CFS course at Trenton and then instructed at 37 SFTS Calgary on Harvards to December 1942. Which SFTS did you go through?

In 1943 he converted to Hudsons at Debert before being posted to Ringway as a staff pilot in 1944 and after the HCU at Tilstock finished up in 1945 flying Stirlings doing SOE drops, glider towing and finally after the war ended, repatriation flights of former POW's.

I am trying to get my father to recount some of his experiences and will post them here when I can piece them together in a sort of chronological order....Your own contributions would be most welcome!

MB

[TommyOv]

Welcome to the fold, robsack15! Contributions such as yours are always welcome and there's a whole host of people on this forum who are eager to read of your experiences, myself included!

Tom

[tow1709]

Here, Peter tells of his exploits over northern France just before and after D- day ...

May 1944 ended with the squadron flying to Newchurch to do an operation. When the time came to start up for the show my Coffman starter failed to fire and I missed the operation. It took over half an hour to fix the starter so, when the engine did finally start, all I could do was return to Thorney island.

On 2nd June it was the radar station on Cap d'Antifer again and this time we were able to attack properly. There was a lot of light flak but once again nobody was hit. This particular radar station, as we subsequently found out, was the major station which covered the whole of the approaches to what was to become the invasion area. Apart from the attacks with which I was involved, the wing also attacked this station at least every few days and it was constantly a priority target. Several other radar stations much further up the coast towards Belgium were also the subject of repeated attacks so that the one on Cap d'Antifer did not appear to be suffering special attention. Although of course it was.

Then suddenly it was June 6th and D-Day! The only flying I did on this momentous day was to be spare on an operation which took off about 6 am. Since nobody turned back I turned back myself. This time however, I hung on for several miles across the channel to take in what was such an awesome sight.

The sky was a mass of aircraft at varying heights and of every imaginable type: Lancasters, Flying Fortresses, Dakotas towing gliders, Spitfires, Mustangs and of course Typhoons. The sea was just a layer of ships as far as the eye could see -all heading towards France. There was everything from fairly small transports carrying landing craft to the largest battleships. On the way back I saw, more or less bringing up the rear, the first elements of the 'Mulberry' harbour being towed by tugs and a weird sort of huge cotton reel which turned out to be the first stage of 'PLUTO' (Pipe Line Under The Ocean) which eventually supplied all the vast amounts of petrol which were used by the invading forces. These latter of course were only able to travel very slowly and did not arrive on the beacheads until later when they had been well secured.

June 7th was a busy day. Taking off at first light, I took part in an offensive R/P recco south-east of Le-Havre. We met no opposition, but attacked an MT convoy near Lisieux. We looked around for other targets but there did not seem to be much moving in this area and we had to return due to shortage of fuel. I landed at Ford for refuelling before returning to Thorney.

In the afternoon I set off once again for a long range sweep south of Caen. Just as I got airborne, the aircraft gave a lurch to port and I had difficulty keeping the port wing up. I carried on climbing to try and join up with the rest of the squadron but was called up by ground control and told 'RTB, RTB' (Return to Base). I peeled off port and looked back at the airfield to witness a most extraordinary sight. It seemed that the last half of the runway was on fire!. What had happened was just after I had got off the ground, my starboard long-range tank had fallen off. Since I was by the time doing well over 100mph the tank had hit the runway and the impact had split the tank and ignited the 45 gallons of petrol which was then spread along the runway like a 'Napalm' bomb. The two chaps who were taking off after me - we took off in pairs - had to fly through a wall of smoke and flame. I had to return and land since I obviously would not have had enough fuel to complete the mission and the 'spare man' took over.

I did not fly again until the morning of the 10th June when I was No.2 to Wing Commander J.M.Bryan on an armed recco south east of Caen. As we swung round south of the city the Wingco evidently saw something of interest below and peeled off in a steep dive to starboard. We went down to about 600 feet and the Wingco went into a steep starboard turn. I was flying about twenty feet above him in the turn. Suddenly there was a burst of flame and he turned over on his back and dived into the ground. I broke violently to port and pulled up. As I climbed away there was a stream of tracer just off my starboard wing. Why I did it I don't know, but I instinctively turned back starboard into the flak. The tracer disappeared and the number three, who was following me, told me that the tracer suddenly swung to port just as I swung to starboard, thus missing me by miles. I realised later that somebody at OTU had drummed into me "ALWAYS turn into the flak". This was obviously good advice since, when the gunner saw that he was off target he would try to correct his aim by swinging towards the aircraft. If the aircraft at the same time swung towards the flak he would over correct and miss again. This is what happened then, and by the time that the gunner realised what was happening I was out of range. Losing the Wing Commander so suddenly was a shattering experience and I, now the leader, decided that enough was enough and we headed back.

In the afternoon we were again near Caen but this time with a specific target. This was a convoy of AFV's (Armoured Fighting Vehicles). We attacked from low level and I scored a direct hit on a tank with my salvo of rockets. The salvo blew off the turret which was flung into the air. I did not realise it at the time but the chap following me said that it looked as if I had flown UNDER the turret as I went through the explosion and over the tank. I know I was pretty low and that I flew through the cloud of smoke from the explosion so I suppose it is just possible, although it sounds unlikely.

At this time we were being moved around continuously; flying to other airfields to do operations and then returning to ThorneyIsland in the evening. On the 15th June I led an attack on a ferry at Le Havre. Surprisingly there was little anti aircraft opposition and we all managed to hit the target which was left on fire. The next three operations in which I took part were all aborted due to either very thick haze or low cloud cover. On the last of these on July 5th the squadron was diverted to Ford on return.

The next day, July 6th I attempted to return to base but suffered an engine failure on take-off. I lined up with the runway and opened the throttle. Everything seemed normal at first but, as I opened the throttle further the power did not seem to increase. I opened up to emergency full boost but the power continued to fade and, just before I reached flying speed the engine quit completely. Luckily Ford had a fairly long runway and I had time to switch off the ignition and petrol before I had to jab at the brakes with full right rudder and 'ground-loop' off the runway. Finishing up on the grass pointing back in the opposite direction. I had shot off the runway about fifty yards from the end and left grooves in the grass within twenty feet of the boundary fence. Had the engine quit a bit later, or had I been going much faster I would have shot straight off the end of the runway and finished up ploughing into the WAAF quarters huts which were sited just the other side on the fence.

Investigation showed that the main drive to all the auxiliaries, petrol pumps, cooling pumps, magnetos, etc., had seized solid and the engine had ceased to produce any power at all! I was picked up by another pilot in an Auster and flown back to Thorney island.

More soon ==TOW

[cliffnemo]

PLEASE Robsack , help to keep this thread going. Any contributions would be most appreciated by all of us. There are historians , authors, museum authorities following this thread, as I know from various P.Ms received.
If you find typing a problem perhaps other ppruners will come up with suitable suggestions.

There are only a few contributions left for me to post, which will be rather dull reading.

Your are welcome to P.M me if you wish.

CLIFF.

[kookabat]

which will be rather dull reading

I doubt it Cliff!! :)

[cockney steve]

It's been a while since I made any contribution.....

So sad to hear of Reg's passing...we all think we're going to go on forever,but we also know that the Grim Reaper is no respecter of heroes,the good and the brave. Farewell, Reg. -you gave me a great deal of pleasure reading your reminiscences.

Re- PLUTO..... We used to sell little "rubber"capsules of cigarette-lighter "petrol"....they came in a square tin box of a gross,iirc, and sold at a penny,old money...the brand was PLUTO and the reason for the name was printed on the box.

Also remember Players "Airman" cigarettes,and "Turf" (which many a customer avowed was the filling of the fags)

For the youngsters! - cigarette-lighters had cotton-wool in the tank (body) which was soaked in the non-smelly "petrol" a flint and wheel was used to ignite a wick sticking out of the top and extinguished by replacing the cap or a hinged snuffer . Many exist, made from used cartridge-cases,large nuts and sundry other stuff liberated from wartime factories and the Military.

[phil9560]

Somewhere in these magnificent tales there's a blockbuster movie.

Or,at the very least,a compulsory reading school text book.

[tow1709]

Yes we need more folks to come forward with their stories.

This is the end of Ch 9 of Peter Brett's original 13 chapters, so there is a fair bit of his stuff still to come.

Here is some more

Next day saw my first landing in France. We flew to ALG (Advanced Landing Ground) B8 near Bayeux. The main impression was of dust. It had been hot and dry for over two weeks and the flat Normandy land had dried out to a fine powder. Landing caused billows of dust to float away from under the wings, but take-offs were a nightmare for everybody except the first pair to get airborne. We were briefed to attack some AFV's south west of Caen. Taxiing out from the dispersal area was tricky enough with everybody having to swing violently from side to side in order to peer through the drifting dust blown up by the preceding aircraft. I was leading the second four so two pairs had taken off when it became my turn to get onto the runway. As I taxied across the runway to get into take-off position I realised that I couldn't see more than about twenty feet. I lined up as best I could, glanced across at my number two who gave me a thumbs-up to indicate that he was ready, and opened up. It only took a few seconds to see that the dust was getting thicker as I got further along the runway. I couldn't see anything ahead and not much to the side. I did the only thing possible and took off entirely on instruments. Mainly keeping as straight as possible with the gyro compass until I felt the aircraft start to lift. I just had to trust to luck that I was not running off the side of the tracking. My number two was having a slightly easier time since he was just formating on me and assuming that I knew where I was! Once we were airborne things improved greatly and at about 200 feet I came out of the dust to see the previous two just ahead of me in perfect position. However all this dangerous effort was to no avail since the target area was once again inaccessible due to cloud cover and we returned to England.

We flew over to France again on the 12th July to ALG B8. All the ALG's were given numbers A for American and B for British. Our first target briefing was to attack, once again, the Radar station on Cap d'Antifer. This was to be a four aircraft attack. The C.O., S/Ldr Felix Scarlett was leading and I was number three. After the briefing, which was very nominal since the wing had attacked this target several times before, we walked out to the aircraft. As we walked the C.O. said that he wanted to try something different. I was to lead the R/P attack in a 60 degree dive and he would go in solo at zero feet to try to hit the base of the antenna. I would climb up to 8000 feet and start a gentle turn just inland of the target. When he was in position for the run-in he would call me and I would commence the dive. The idea was that we would coordinate our attacks and, hopefully, the gunners would be so busy with the three of us diving that he would be able to get a clear run at the target. The timing worked out very well. Unfortunately for some unknown reason all the flak concentrated on Felix as he made his run-in. I was well into the dive and waiting for the flak to commence when I spotted him coming in from the south parallel to, and just inland of, the coast. Just as I saw him, the flak started up and almost immediately his aircraft burst into flame.

His aircraft carried on straight into the base of the aerial where there was an enormous explosion. By this time I was well into my dive and lined up on the target ready to fire my rockets. I had about two seconds to make up my mind whether to fire or not since the C.O. had crashed exactly at the base of the aerial which was the aiming point. Since his aircraft was on fire and travelling at some 350 mph when he hit the ground and the impact was followed by the explosion, it was obvious that he could not have survived. There were no ejection seats of course in those days and it would have been impossible for him to have baled out from that height and I therefore fired. My eight rockets as well as those of the other two all landed within the target area. We will never know what exactly happened in those last few moments. Whether Felix was killed by the flak and the aircraft just continued on the same course, or whether he realised that, with the aircraft on fire, there was no way he could get away and deliberately crashed into the target, will always remain an unanswered question. It was not until sometime later that somebody gave me a cutting from the 'Daily Sketch' which told me that he was The Honourable Felix Scarlett, the younger brother of Lord Abinger. He had never hinted that he was anything but plain Felix Scarlett and had been a most popular leader of the squadron.

We stayed overnight at B8 and next morning attacked the Le Havre Ferry once again, returning to Hurn in the afternoon. This proved to be my last operation of my first tour although I did not know it at the time.

Next day, 14th July, the squadron was posted to Eastchurch on the Isle of Sheppey in the Thames estuary to attend an R/P practice course. I did ten practice trips during the next ten days and found out that I seemed to have a natural aptitude for judging the flight of the rockets as well as being a very good shot at stationary targets where deflection shooting was not required!

Eastchurch was a quite small grass airfield with a not very good surface and two of our aircraft lost their tailwheels on landing and badly damaged their rudders. At this time the station was also a posting for pilots who for some reason had 'cracked up' and had been classified as LMF. This latter stood for 'Lack of Moral Fibre' and seemed to be indiscriminately applied to anyone who could not cope with the stress for whatever reason. Psychiatry was still looked on as somewhat of an odd science and there seemed to be little being done in the way of treatment. Consequently the officers’ mess had a somewhat weird atmosphere. The members, apart from our more 'normal' squadron pilots, were either those who kept strictly to themselves and sat brooding in corners, or those who were 'overstrung' and lived on a permanent binge. I did not realise at the time how near I was to becoming a 'case' myself since I had been living with the stress for nearly a year.

At the end of the course the squadron was posted back to France to ALG B7 at Martragny just west of Bayeux but I did not accompany them as I was posted on 'rest' to 84 Group GSU (Group Support Unit) at Thruxton near Andover. On the last night at Eastchurch the squadron threw a mess party for me and all the pilots signed my log book.

The next day I flew an Auster from Eastchurch to Thruxton with a stopovers at Shoreham and Lee-on-Solent where I dropped off F/O Pattison who was going on leave. Lee-on-Solent was a Fleet Air Arm Station where everything was navy fashion. Walls were bulkheads and floors were decks. Whilst I was in flying control, booking in and out again to go to Thruxton, F/O Pattison arranged to get a lift into Portsmouth and was offered a ride in the 'Captains Jolly Boat' which turned out to be a 15 cwt Bedford van! I bid him farewell and continued my flight to Thruxton. I reported in and was asked to see the station Adjutant next morning. I duly presented myself to his office next morning expecting to be posted somewhere in the U.K. for a few months quiet life only to be told that I was posted straight back to 123 Wing 2nd T.A.F. This time to 198 Squadron.

It was then that I found out how much stress I had been under without knowing it. I suppose I had started to relax as soon as I was posted away from 183 squadron and I my reaction to this news was as much a surprise to me as to anyone. I suddenly felt as if I wanted to cry and had difficulty in keeping my voice from breaking as I said something like "Very good sir but I would have preferred to go back to 183".
However I managed to salute and retire in good order.

Next day, July 26th, I was flown in an Anson to ALG B7 where I reported to the CO of 198 S/Ldr Paul Ezzanno. He seemed somewhat surprised to see me and took me to the Wing Commander, W/C Wally Dring, who had been my Squadron Leader earlier on 183 Squadron. His reaction was " Peter, what the hell are you doing here? I sent you on rest! Those idiots at A.D.G.B. don't know what they're doing. You are grounded until I can sort out what has gone wrong. Just make yourself useful in the ops room!"

It took a week before things were sorted out during which time I did odd jobs for the intelligence types such as marking up maps and setting up briefings for operations. It proved to be quite interesting but I was apprehensive that I would be grounded for a long time.

Eventually I was posted back to 84 Group GSU at Thruxton as a ferry pilot and was flown back in an Anson via ALG B3. I was immediately granted 14 days leave and had a good time celebrating my surviving my first tour.

My first job on returning from leave was an engine test after an engine change on aircraft JR141. Normally this would have been a short trip of 15 minutes or so just to check that all the engine instruments were registering the correct figures. However I was feeling relaxed and cheerful and decided to enjoy the flight. I took the aircraft up to 15000 ft to check the supercharger speed change-over and after this proved O.K. I started to have fun. I performed all the aerobatics in the book , except spinning of course!. The first thing was a vertical climbing roll for which I had to get up to about 450mph in the dive. This of course took me down to about 8000ft and from then on I carried on with rolls, loops, rolls off the top of loops, semi-stall turns and barrel rolls. I did not really notice where I was except to ensure that I kept above 2000ft. After about 30 minutes I felt I had had enough and decided to return to base. By now I was fairly adept at map reading and it did not take me long to realise that I had been aerobatting practically over the airfield. I called up for permission to join the circuit and do a 'combat' landing. This consisted of flying in low over the threshold of the runway and then executing a very steep climbing turn to port, at the same time cutting the throttle, going into fully fine pitch, opening the hood, selecting wheels down, then flaps down and coming out of the top of the climbing turn in full landing configuration at about 150 mph. The turn was continued to align with the runway on a very steep approach and the ideal situation was to carry out a three point landing as close to the start of the runway as possible.

Everything worked out fine and I greased onto the runway about 25 yards past the threshold. I taxied in and was guided to the dispersal point where the Sergeant fitter was waiting for my report. As I unstrapped he climbed up onto the wing and, before I could say anything, he said with a broad grin on his face. "I think we enjoyed that didn't we sir?". Apparently most of the work had stopped on the airfield to watch my display! I was expecting to get a 'rocket' for showing off, however the Wing commander flying did not send for me and at lunch time in the mess, when I apologised and explained that I was just enjoying the flying and not intending to show off, he said "Don't worry about it. You didn't violate any flying regulations and it provided a bit of light relief."

He then told me that I was to fly the same aircraft over to ALG B7 in France in the afternoon but I would have to wait until they had fitted some long range tanks. When I queried the fact that these were not necessary I was told that they were highly necessary since they would be filled with best bitter beer having been previously steam cleaned and had taps fitted at the rear! I was told that my very life depended on a smooth crossing and a safe landing at B7, since the airfield had been forewarned of my arrival and would be waiting for the beer!

I was briefed to climb up quickly to 10000ft and cross over at this height. I was then to let down quickly near the coast and land as soon as possible. This was to ensure that the beer arrived cold! It was a hot dusty day in Northern France and as I joined the circuit after being given permission to land I saw that queues were already forming at the dispersal point. I made a smooth landing and was waved into a dispersal bay. I cut the engine and, before I could unstrap and get out there was a sergeant rigger at each wing operating the semi-frozen taps and dispensing the “amber nectar”. It took a while to serve out the drink since I had brought over 90 gallons of best bitter, which at the rate of a pint per person would have served 720 !

I reported to the ops room and was told to expect an Anson to ferry me back during the afternoon. Unfortunately, when the Anson arrived, the pilot was taken ill. Either he was suffering from a very severe hangover or had acquired a 'continental tummy' in record time since he was completely incapacitated and spent most of his time in the toilets. Thus I was stranded at B7 for four days. During this time I again helped out in the ops room and also did a 20 minute air test after an engine repair for an oil leak.

Finally, on 21st August I was flown back to Thruxton and then posted on the No.3 Tactical Experience Unit at Aston Down in Gloucestershire and finally started my four months 'rest period' from operations.

Peter mentions his logbook in the text above. The original is in the RAF Museum at Hendon, and the excellent museum at Tangmere has a photocopy of it. I believe, if you put in a prior request you can inspect these and similar documents. If anyone knows the procedure, please let me know, because I would like to to do so myself.

I have since received a PM about this - all you have to do is ring up and ask a few days in advance. Thanks Michael.

[Spartacan]

I do hope Cliff and the rest of the crew keep this thread going. I notice it went a bit quiet with Regle's passing. I see that as a mark of respect for a member of a generation that we all truly cherish. There is so much to be learned by young people of the exploits of chaps back then.

When I was a kid we read 'Reach for the Sky', the Dambusters, , Wing Leader and many others. We used to hear regularly in the media from men like Douglas Bader and Leonard Cheshire and they were a great inspiration. It's terrific that there are still guys out there who are prepared to take on this new media and keep telling their stories which seem as fresh as if they were yesterday.

Keep it coming - I'm getting withdrawal symptoms!

[angels]

Oh no.

I'm just back from holiday to this awful news.

Sincere condolences to the Levy family on your loss.

[Spartacan]

The BBC Today programme are doing a daily piece on the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain this week:

BBC News - Today - A week in the Battle of Britain: Day one (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8916000/8916623.stm)

and

BBC News - Today - Sir Douglas Bader's lost notebooks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8920000/8920031.stm)

Well worth a listen. Both of the chaps are about ninety and make the point that the present 'National Curriculum' generation know absolutely nothing about the Battle of Britain. I find that very sad.

[cliffnemo]

It is such a long time ago that I wrote about my stay at 150 Sqdn , there is a risk that I may repeat myself. So I hope you will forgive me if I do so. To go back and search for my last post would be too time consuming, so at the risk of being ‘shot down’ will ‘press on reward less.‘.

After V.E day you will remember we were flying to Pomigliano collecting and returning soldiers on Python leave. Our import/export business was booming, with us returning loaded with Cameo jewelery, wine , grapes, and peaches, but unfortunately most of the watches, cameras , binoculars had long since gone. . The soldiers had bought these, paying with the main currency , cigarettes.. Virtually any thing of use could be sold, in fact Paddy our Navigator sold his vest. We were visiting Salerno on our day off ,and had run out of lire, and Paddy asked an Italian if he could pay for two bottles of wine with his vest. The Italian agreed, resulting in three happy people. Below, hopefully. Paddy, Nav (minus vest ) and me in Salerno.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/PADDYCLIFFSALERNOADOBE2284.jpg




In between trips to Pomigliano, we jettisoned tons of high explosives, and incendiaries in the North Sea, but unfortunately this side of ‘the egg line’. I would imagine this concession would end on V.E day but I would be interested to hear if the boys on the Berlin airlift qualified.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/new%20album/hemswellgroupcropped101-1.jpg
Taffy mid upper. John bomb aimer, ?. Jock , W.O.P
?think? was our original bomb aimer (Australian) , replaced by Paddy (Dublin).

Rumours were rife that we would be soon flying out to the Far East, and it came as surprise when the crews were broken up and posted to different stations. I was posted to R.A.F Bruntingthorpe, but can’t remember why, what for, or what happened there, Wonder what sort of station that was at that time ? All I can remember is that I soon became friends with another pilot who came from Leicester, which we frequently visited, on my trusty Norton and stayed the night at his house We must have been there for some time as when some one dropped a bomb on Hiroshima the Japanese, capitulated and V.J day was announced. I don’t remember any one being upset at not earning an extra medal, in fact I detected a decided lack of enthusiasm about the whole prospect of visiting the Far East. The one thing I do remember is celebrating V.J day in Nottingham. It is hard to describe , euphoria, >? emotion ?ecstasy,? joy, excitement, ? Or relief , it was all there, Singing, and dancing with pianos in every street. Civilians thanking us , and offering drinks, Union Flags every where , Girls wearing soldiers , sailors and airmen’s hats. I have never seen so many happy people in one place since, and this was not only the servicemen who were happy. Practically all the civilians now knew there friends and relatives would now be coming home safely, but what they did not know was how long it would take. The Government decided quite rightly that they would use the ‘first in , first out policy’ and would only slowly demob the servicemen. This was for two reasons, one so as not to flood the labour market, and two , to have sufficient numbers to maintain law and order in the Axis countries. This meant some of the later recruits having to wait about a year for demob.

After recovering I was posted for a few days to R.A.F Catterick as I had been made ‘redundant’ ( a term I had never heard used in this way before, prior to that it was ‘sacked’). At Catterick I was told I had to choose a new trade, and given a list to choose three trades from. I chose, blacksmith and welder, M.T driver, and equipment assistant. The former as it could be useful in civvy street, and the other two as they were the best ‘skives’ I could think of, To my surprise, psychological tests indicated I was most suited to a clerical job. This was even though my life up to that time had always been connected with vehicles, plant, tools and engines. Well, those tests putting little round pegs in round holes and square pegs in square holes, being very scientific must have resulted in a correct decision. I was then told I was to train as an A/C 2 equipment assistant. So back to Bruntingthorpe.

Kevin (ICARE) Can you access my photobucket pictures on Face book ? Just thinking, if any one else is as silly as me ,that is posting to Facebook, they could possibly ask to become friends (with C.f Leach) and maybe access a few more R.A.F pics ( I can't delete the ref to FacePPRuNE it should read FACE BOOK.)

[Fareastdriver]

Clifnemo. That must have been terrible, being banged down from aircrew to an SAC scribbler just because the Japs threw in the towel. It wouldn't happen now..

[Rallye Driver]

The BBMF flew in to North Weald this evening for an overnight stop on their Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary Tour. One of our airfield friends, Squadron Leader William Pearce who flew Hurricanes and Thunderbolts in Burma, was on hand to greet the pilots. The big grin on his face sitting in a Spitfire sums up a great day. We salute you, whatever you flew...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/YakRider/WilliamJoke.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/YakRider/DSCN0067.jpg

RD :ok:

[cliffnemo]

Fareastdriver

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: East of India
Posts: 714

Clifnemo. That must have been terrible, being banged down from aircrew
Not that bad, mixed feelings ? Was promoted W/O whilst at Hemswell and then on £1-0-0 per day, and whisky only 7/6 a bottle. Still wore the the barathea uniform complete with'Tate and Lyles' all day, but was A.C 2 by day and W/O in the mess. We were treated well by the N.C.O instructors ( except for one. Later)

[Spartacan]

I look forward to hearing how Cliff's demob and transition to civvy street went.

I remember meeting a pilot who started training late in WW2 and was livid when they kept him for two years driving a lorry. Apparently there was a station mutiny at one point as some guys were desperate to demob and get on with their lives. It must have been a very frustrating period for some.

[johnfairr]

The extract below is from post #1379.

The following day Owen Hardy and I were picked for the first aerodrome patrol and our first job was to get rid of the long range tanks. We’d had no instruction on this and although we tried pressing every button and switch and lever, there was no way we could get this damn tank off. Eventually one of us sat in the cockpit and pulled the lever and the other one gave the tank a mighty kick and it fell off. So we tried that with the other aircraft and managed to get all of them off without a great deal of further bother.

We’d been doing our usual patrol up and down the aerodrome, seeing if anything was coming our way, flying as usual about 200 yards apart and on the other side of Owen, who happened to be nearer the sea than I was, a 109 came in very, very low and shot across the aerodrome, shooting things up on the way, turned round and belted for home. Owen Hardy and I both turned in to chase the 109, but we hadn’t a great deal of height advantage and from what we could gather the 109 was a lot faster than we were.

Anyway, we chased this 109 on the deck for quite a way and I had visions of the thing getting away and I was shrieking at Owen to fire as soon as he could. He was quite calm about it, he lined up the 109, gave it a couple of good burst and the thing burst into flames and hit the deck. That was our first enemy aircraft in North Africa.

I had the great pleasure of sitting next to Owen Hardy DFC* AFC at my uncle and aunts' Diamond Wedding celebration lunch today. I had never met him before, but I had spoken to him in New Zealand 10 years ago, though only on the phone.

I mentioned my fathers' memoirs and his appearance in them, and especially their first Squadron success in North Africa. I was particularly interested in why my Old Man kept shouting at Owen to fire on the 109. "Ah," said Owen, "The reason I took so long was that I had just realised I was about to become a killer . . . "

A sobering thought, but one that did not spoil the occasion, A sprightly 90+year old, still as sharp as a knife, he has had self-published (lulu.com) his own memoirs under the title "Through my Eyes", his career from 1940-1969 in the RAF from which he retired as a Wing Commander. Needless to say I ordered it a few hours ago!!

[fredjhh]

Clifnemo. That must have been terrible, being banged down from aircrew.

This was very common with W/O and SNCO Aircrew, especially ex-prisoners of war. Men with an almost completed tour, or second tour; some with DFMs or DFCs, were given some lowly jobs as LACs or Acs, but allowed to use the Sergeants' Mess for a while. Only those who managed to get back on to flying, as I did, managed to retain their rank.
Canadian ex-PoWs were offered immediate Commissions before being returned to Canada. One Sgt Air Gunner, with a crime sheet as long as my arm, was astonished and said so. He was told he had a clean sheet, as he had not got into trouble over the past two years! fredjhh

[Hipper]

100 pages - a marvellous achievement.

Cliffnemo did the take -off - 'Well here goes transferring from F.O Wales blog to this page. So full power, wheels up, flap in by five, and 2850 plus 9. We are away. (maybe)' - and a successful take off it was.

I would like to thank all who have kept this thread flying.

[Inspector Clueless]

Fellow Pruners-Ive just returned from a very long trip around the world spending too much time out of email contact and have missed the very sad news of Reg Levy departing the circuit forever. The Teleg did Reg proud though,a fantastic obit to honour a wonderful man and career.

I had the distinct honour to meet Reg earlier this year in Dover at his flat via this thread and he was such a total delight,I spent some time just listening to his exploits and viewing his logbooks which were so understated.
Reg was truly a gentleman and a total aviation person-he was lucid,amusing but also very,very astute and very aware of the future and his failing health but he still wore his jacket to depart the building for a stroll. It was very obvious that he missed his beloved wife and he spoke in glowing terms with truly warm affection his loss was palpable. But he was a man of science and realised that he had led a great life after surviving WW2 and the hijacking in his airline life.He truly was a breed apart with flying experiences way beyond my very dull airline career in comparison-yet he took a genuine interest in learning about the Airbus FBW aircraft and airline flying today and I left him a book and CDs which he read with his aviation interest still active.

He waxed lyrical over flying the Mosquito,Halifax,B707 but he loved the B747 with Sabena-what an amazing career and he knew it too.

Peter-like so many here,your father gave us much pleasure and it was a real honour to have met him albeit briefly he made a big impact,he was also immensly proud of his family.

Cliff please keep the memories coming for us from WW2 and Robsack a warm welcome to this thread,you will find a willing audience.

Reg we will miss you.:ok:

Regards,IC:ok:

[airsound]

Brakedwell has suggested I post this in this thread as well as in the main Mil forum. Not sure I fully understand the thinking behind that, but delighted to oblige. It can always be removed if necessary, I guess. Happy, Mods?



The BBMF has been kind enough to agree to a special flypast (or two-ish) tomorrow 27 August, at about 1430, at The Naze, on the coast a few miles North of Clacton. They will just have completed their display at the Clacton Air Show

They're doing it to commemorate my uncle, Plt Off Gerard Maffett, who died close by after bailing out from his Hurricane on 31 August 1940. You may have seen the wreckage of his aircraft, which lies in the RAF Museum at Hendon as part of the Museum's memorial to the Battle of Britain.

It was a Mk 1 Hurricane P3175, DT S, and Uncle Gerard was flying as Green 2, B Flt, 257 Sqn, detached to Martlesham Heath. He was on something like his 14th operational flight, and he had had one confirmed hit. He was 24.

He was, perhaps, the epitome of Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris'
"common unconsidered man, who, for a moment of eternity, held the whole future of mankind in his two sweating palms, and did not let it go."

This is the first time he has been honoured at the place where he died, and there will be several members of my family present, including, I hope, his surviving younger brother. His elder brother, my father, died in a Beaufighter 18 months after Uncle Gerard.

Any PPRuNers who can make it to The Naze at such short notice will be very welcome. 1400 for 1430?

Sean
Airsound

[cliffnemo]

JUST RAMBLING.
Back to Bruntinthorpe soon, but .



Clifnemo. That must have been terrible, being banged down from aircrew.



Yes fredjhh My ‘oppo’ at Kirkham on the equipment course at Kirkham was one ‘Tubby Baker’ one of the pilots who chose to go on gliders his sole contribution was a trip to Arnhem in a Horsa glider.. I first came across him in the ‘ablutions’ .All I could see was his bare back, with a scar from his left shoulder reaching his right shoulder, and then down to his waste, which was obviously made by a surgeons scalpel. and a very large jagged scar in the middle of his back. Evidently the injury happened on landing caused by shrapnel , but he didn’t remember it. At least he didn’t have to walk back , they kindly brought him back on a stretcher, and gave him a little red wound stripe to wear on his right sleeve. I will endeavor to print a photo below showing Tubby (bottom right) sitting on Wunsdorf equipment section steps. A thing that surprises me is that we were still wearing ‘battle dress’ ,we must have preferred battle dress to ‘best blues’ or were we ‘shooting a line.’ Whilst on the subject of battle dress and Wunsdorf. . We were rather envious of the American’s battledress which was very smart complete with lapels , as distinct from our ‘choker necks’. When I found t hat one of my German female stores assistants was a seamstress , I asked her if she could remodel my battledress as per the American type. She took the battledress home that evening and returned the following morning with it beautifully pressed and sponged , with lapels button holes etc. .When I asked her how much she wanted she replied could I pay her one cigarette. I gave her a packet of twenty Players, We set up a nice little earner. With me taking the orders at forty cigarettes per job. The amazing thing was that no one was put on a fizzer. Possibly the C.O followed suit .
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/WINSDORFMG_0003.jpg

Me on left wearing hats field service. Tubby on right ,front row ditto.
[QUOTE] Apparently there was a station mutiny

In our case Spartacan I think we were too happy to mutiny, but there was an occasion at Kirkham, when the whole flight disobeyed an order (more later) and the C.O tried to charge us with mutiny , but wisely dropped the matter.
[]Inspector clueless PAGE 1984

RE Special BBMF Flypast at The Naze 27 August
Inspector clueless . I bombarded B.B.M.F with emails and newspaper cuttings about Reg, in my own inimitable fashion, but it fell on stony ground , and a request to divert the other fly past over Dover didn’t even result in a reply. Think I am in their 'black book, now.

Madbob and Robsack we are eagerly awaiting some help.

P.S I spent the whole of Friday P.M typing and losing my work despite working in M.S Word.. It save O.K in M.S Word but when working in PPRuNE and leaving it to obtain a quote lost my work in PPRuNE. Does any one know how to save PPRuNE work, where to save it and where to find it again.. As an example when I leave pp to load a pic from Photobucket the work in pp has disappeared .

And Icare (Kevin) where are you I have emailed an P.Md you re helping with your two photos , but have had no reply.

[whitebait1]

Cliff,

I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable than myself on this subject, but have you tried opening a new browser window or tab when you need to go somewhere like photobucket? This would mean you could keep the PPRuNe window and if you don't 'leave' the site, you shouldn't lose your work. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I can try to explain myself a little better...

By the way, thanks so much for your contributions, it's fascinating and humbling to read. Keep it coming!

Cheers,

Tom

[cliffnemo]

Excellent idea White bait. I understand so many thanks. I will do that next time. I have also just found out I can type the pprune items I want to highlight in ms word first (saving frequently) then enclose them in quotes later ,when in pprune. This obviates the too-ing and fro-ing Would still like to know where the ****** the saved pprune file is.

[fredjhh]

Cliff

I have been re-reading your fascinating story from the beginning, high-lighting each page and copying it to a separate folder so that I can read it as a continuous story. Then I will copy out Reg's story in the same way.
I am always astonished at the ITW photos, - they all look alike, and I swear I can see myself and some of my pals when I first look. I have not got around to sending any of my photos so far, but I will think about it.
Your Engineer training is as detailed as your Pilot training and a revelation.
I always considered the F/E was my right hand man, but I never knew how learned he must have been!
It is amazing how much I have missed in the 100 pages and I could reply to several queries over the years, before I joined this thread.
Weheka on Page 40 mentions and old friend, Charlie Chambers, shot down from 51 Squadron, Snaith, in June '43. Charlie was the only survivor and I did hear a story from a PoW that his Halifax crashed with all on board, and Charlie was thrown out of the windscreen. In later years he said he would recount the story but died before he got around to writing it.
Keep up the good work. fredjhh.

[cliffnemo]

Hi Ollie.
I received you P.M re 150 SQDN. Tried to reply but Mr Prune said
<Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help>

I can reprint you query here, if you wish

Cliff.

[Dudley424]

I would like to know if there are any pruners who were involved in the smokelaying over the Normandy Beaches on D Day.
My Father, F/O Leslie Valentine was the pilot of the lead Boston 111A as is depicted in the fine painting by Michael Turner.
His Aircraft was 'E' Easy and he was in 88 sqdn.
He is still alive and well and living in Oxfordshire with my Mother and they are both 93 years old! Dad was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the French for his exploits in the campaign.
It would be nice to hear of anyone who either knew him, or has/had a relative who may have known him.

[RHINO]

Have just come across this amazing thread!

6 EFTS Sywell has been mentioned a couple of times and I was wondering if anyone can help me with research into 'H A Johnstone' who was an instructor there in the early 40's.

thanks very much.

[cliffnemo]

hope to whiz along with this one Whitebait1, Pprune window opened and minimized , ditto M.S Word. As you suggested. ‘Dunno’ what will happen when I do the same with Photobucket, fingers crossed.
Fredjhh
, but I never knew how learned he must have been!
but isn’t it also a tribute to the R.A.F education system.. The instructors not only new their subjects , but more importantly knew how to teach. They all taught from the same book, and in the event of one being ill some one else could take over at the point where the previous one finished..



This next paragraph , which is aimed at Fredjhh, should possibly be the subject of a P.M, but I hope our nice Mr Moderator will agree it should be of interest to quite a few readers.. You mention saving pages from this thread. Well I initially did the same thing, and saved pages. However as I have given all my R.A.F memorabilia to my Grandson (14) I decided to save it to a two gig memory stick, and throw it in a big cardboard box , which is half full already with exercise books photos, log book etc. I will eventually tell him to keep it altogether , wrap it in polythene and put it in the loft. I have found out that R.A.F memorabilia fetches a much higher price on Ebay when sold with other items ,information, details of the owner, etc, (provenance ?. ) Should he be lucky enough and go to university, and be pushed for cash, he should obtain a good price for it.
One of the items in the box is a picture frame, the picture showing the insignia I wore over the period. Note the wings show the King’s crown as distinct from the Queen’s crown on today’s wings., At the bottom is shown the A.T.C (Air training corps) shoulder flash.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/cliffordleach/CHARLIESBREVETS-Copy-1.jpg
.


MEANWHILE BACK AT BRUNTINGTHORPE.
As I said before , I can’t remember much about Bruntingthorpe only that we were preparing to fly out to the Far East, The Demontfort Hall, and sweetbreads. Sweatbreads ? Well my ‘oppo’ at Bruntingthorpe came from nearby Leicester and his father,worked in the local abattoir . We travelled to his house on the Norton and stayed the night whenever we were off duty. One night his father announced he had brought home some sweetbreads ,and we would have them ‘for tea’ (Northern expression) , they were delicious. It was some time after the war I decided to obtain some from the butcher, but when I found out what they were I couldn’t eat them.
Whilst we were at Bruntingthorp the atomic bomb was dropped and we were told we were to go to Catterick for psychological tests , the results would decide which trades we were to remuster to.
We were only at Catterick a few days, where we took various tests, including the previously mentioned round pegs in round holes. Etc. We had previously been asked which trades we preferred. I selected 1 Black smith and Welder. 2 Heavy goods driver, (trades I thought might be useful in civvy street) and 3 3 equipment assistant. ( The latter, because the ‘barrack room lawyers’ advised it was good ‘skive’. ) It was). My results showed I was most suited to a clerical job, despite my record as a flight engineer, and , , previous civilian occupation.. For some reason I was then posted to R.A.F Newmarket. , and remained there for approximately a month., and then posted to Kirkham to train as an equipment assistant. I will describe the epic journey on my Norton to Kirk ham next A very cold trip complete with snow.


Below is an excerpt from an email by Icare. I think his computer is probably down. as he hasn't replied to my ans wer. The email includes two photos of 51 Sqdn crews which he wishes to post. I could post them but would rather wait for his reply.

Hi, Cliff, I think I need a bit of guidance here, please.

I haven't posted any photos on PPRuNe but this group shot has been sent to me by RagouC whose stepbrother was Derek Olver.

She also thinks that John Fairr's father might be in the photo, so before I post on PPRuNe I want to ensure the photo's are as good as I can get them for clarity etc, plus ensuring they are the "acceptable" the forum.

[johnfairr]

Sorry that I have been remiss in posting here. The pictures sent did not include any of my Old Man - they were all ossifers, and he wasn't commissioned until he'd been at Biggin for a while in June/July 1942.

[cliffnemo]

GENTLE REMINDER.
Welcome to PPRuNe Robsack. There are bound to be many threads (not only this military aircrew forum) to which your contibutions will be most welcome.

.

I am trying to get my father to recount some of his experiences and will post them here when I can piece them together in a sort of chronological order....Your own contributions would be most welcome!

We were eventually informed that those who had been selected for equipment assistant training would be posted to R.A.F Kirkham, which was situated between Blackpool and Preston. The night before we were due to travel, I discussed the problem of getting my kit to Kirkham as I would be traveling on my motor bike, but this was soon solved by my friends , who offered to take on the train any of my kit. I could not carry. As it was mid winter I would wear as much clothing as possible, which included my waterproof Sidcot suit. Flying helmet, goggles , silk gloves, electrically heated gloves (they were twenty four volt, but worked quite well off the motorbike twelve volt system. ) leather gauntlet gloves , polo necked jersey, sea boot stockings, big pack , side pack,

The great day arrived, and after struggling to don all the above mentioned, despite the cold weather I was sweating. I managed to straddle the Norton and set off on the two hundred mile journey. Although I was soon frozen stiff, initially the journey was uneventful , until I reached the Peak District, where the roads were covered with a snow a foot deep. Although I had both feet on the ground and in bottom gear I fell off about four times, but due to the amount of padding suffered no ill effect. It was dark by the time I hit St Helens , but as the black out regs had been lifted (now full head lamp, and street lights) it was not too bad. I eventually reached Kirkham, but on arriving at the billets could hardly move , and had to shout for assistance. My oppos who were already there, came out , lifted me off the Norton, and carried me in to thaw out in front of the usual coke stove.

We soon settled in , and found most of the staff were quite understanding, realising that those of us who had not chosen to make the R.A.F our career were not keen on becoming equipment assistants . However the sergeant in charge of our flight was not one of those. He had brand new stripes and had obviously just finished his training course. After morning classes he would shout ‘fall in three thick outside’ , and march us to the mess, as if we were raw recruits. This being rather annoying, we decided to beat him to it. Being very proficient at precision drill, and on his arrival , before he could open his mouth we dashed out , right dressed, left turned, and set off. He ran after us shouting stop, stop, stop. We carried on marching towards the mess, whereupon he shouted ‘ I will show what drill is, and as we were due to do a left turn towards the mess. He shouted right turn, which we ignored. We crossed the main road past the main guard room with him shouting call out the guard. We totally ignored every one and went in to the mess.

We were told we were all to go in front of the C/O that afternoon on a charge of mutiny. The barrack room lawyers advised that the C/O would have problems with this charge, that the Sergeant was ordering Flight Sergeants and Warrant officers, and that the only man he could charge was the ‘ marker’ ( number one on the left ). It was then decided that no one could remember who the marker was , but that we did follow him . I took my turn with the ‘hats off ‘procedure, and stuck to the prearranged story. Think he was a bit brassed off hearing the same tale, for he said to me on leaving. This would be a better place , but for the aircrew. Nothing further was heard, and we were left wondering whether the barrack room lawyers were correct. No further action was taken and we felt vindicated as an aircrew N.C.O was appointed, and we never saw our first sergeant again.

P.S I put a photo taken of me on Sunday in photos of everybody, so how about you doing the same . In case there is anyone who doesn't know put the following in the search box Sticky: Photos of Everybody
or search in Jet Blast

[kookabat]

Cliff,
Many veterans I have spoken with report similar experiences to yours when the end of hostilities came. I suppose with hindsight you can see the sense in not suddenly releasing EVERYONE and thereby flooding the labour market, but not so much in the [i]way[/] it was done - keeping people back in menial jobs, being shouted at by just-qualified sergeants on a power trip.. I can 100% understand the bitterness that is still evident in many former aircrew at their treatment.

Meanwhile, I've taken your advice and added a photo to the thread - there used to be one of me there, from some years ago, but the old web space provider Geocities closed and took my pic with it so I just reposted a new one...

Adam

[cliffnemo]

Wizzo picture Kookabat you posted to Sticky: Photos of Everybody.
Nice view of Tiger Moth (D.H 82 A ? but the flying helmet ? is it a Czecho-Slovakian fighter pilot's helmet .?

[kookabat]

I have absolutely no idea Cliff, it's just the leather one that 'lives' with the aeroplane... :)

But yes, a DH-82A it is!

[Spartacan]

BBC Two at 9.00pm - First Light:

Geoffrey Wellum: The terrible beauty of flying a Spitfire at the age of 18 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/battle-of-britain/7992268/Geoffrey-Wellum-The-terrible-beauty-of-flying-a-Spitfire-at-the-age-of-18.html)

[green granite]

BBC Two at 9.00pm

On Tuesday the 14th

[Prangster]

My dear old departed stepfather had a rather eventful time before reaching the left hand seat of a Lancaster. Operational from day one on Hampdens (49 Scampton) he sort of meandered up the ranks to squandron signals leader (156 Warboys) After he'd flown his 63rd op, Don Bennett stepped in and in an act of what can only be described as mercy sent the old man to Canada to remuster to pilot. The AOC's thinking being that at this late stage of the war Cookie can't possibly turn up on ops again. Wrong! Somehow father telescoped the supposedly lengthy route from Cornells to Lancasters by means both legal and devious and managed another 8 ops. Sadly after all that effort he was found to be suffering from a bowl cancer and invalided out. I often wondered if the strain of everything he's gone through contributed to the illness. I've a picture of his intial pilots course. He seems strangely out of place as a grizzled Flt Lt of 25yrs or age amongst so many young faces