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MPN11
11th Dec 2013, 17:22
A belated Welcome to PPRuNe, Dave Wilson, and I will take a hit for that recent major deviation on behalf of others, especially as it is one is one of the most recent and expansive.

Yes, it's not as specific as the Thread title implies. Indeed, it strayed into wartime experiences after gaining the brevet at a fairly early stage (relatively speaking). And the early days of ATC, and other subjects ... So Danny has his wings ... Goodbye?

Where is the cut-off? Wings parade? And where does the rest go?

I defer to our Moderators, who have extensive experience and wisdom. I suspect their tolerance of the nostalgia, and general meandering, expressed here says much for their judgment.

BEagle
11th Dec 2013, 17:44
Chaps - shouldn't we just let the thread simply go with the flow. After all, it's one of the few good ones left on the PRuNe military forum....

ricardian
11th Dec 2013, 18:11
Beagle said Chaps - shouldn't we just let the thread simply go with the flow. After all, it's one of the few good ones left on the PRuNe military forum....
I second that!

MPN11
11th Dec 2013, 18:43
Almost (but not quite) the only thread I bother to read, Beags, which must say something.

However, a point has been made, with validity, so let's not unleash the handbags. Dave is entitled to express a view.

The thread may possibly need another title, especially since I don't recall WW Eleven :cool:

What we actually need is Danny to stop sitting on his bum at Gut, and get himself to Shawbury to be an ATC teeecher. :ok:

Union Jack
11th Dec 2013, 19:02
Chaps - shouldn't we just let the thread simply go with the flow. After all, it's one of the few good ones left on the PPRuNe military forum.... - BEagle

Thoroughly agree or, as some posters seen to love saying, concur. **

The thread may possibly need another title, especially since I don't recall WW Eleven - MPN

Careful, MPN, otherwise we will have the Walts putting up their gongs for WWs III to X inclusive!:)

Jack

** Which in my experience should only be used by someone senior to the writer/speaker - so perhaps I should settle for "concur"?:)

camlobe
11th Dec 2013, 19:54
Gentlemen,
If I may press upon you all for a moment. This thread is of interest to countless readers and contributors. By virtue of its total content, it is, as has been mentioned, of considerable historic importance, and if for that reason alone, it should be preserved for our younger and interested up-and-coming military aviators.

One of the most important parts of life in uniform is the ability to link to the historic roots of that service, no matter which colour the uniform may be. This thread was started, albeit reluctantly by the late cliff nemo, and has naturally evolved entirely due to the twists, turns, humour and sadness of its irreplaceable contributors (myself excepted).

The title of the thread may seem to some to be less important than than its total content. Others my view it as a place purely for contributions from participants eligible only if they meet the criteria of the title.

Sadly, as we know only too well, if the second view is the only one used, this wonderful thread will be rather thin in its content.

Perhaps, in the best tradition of our fine service, which has never been a democracy, this is a decision to be made by the Senior Member of the crew room.

There, I have passed the buck, and the "Boss", our missing Danny, can carry the can.

Over to you, Sir.

Camlobe


"Never confuse qualification with capability." Camlobe 1984

Chugalug2
11th Dec 2013, 20:00
As the person who put a spoke in the wheel by suggesting that we make a little more room for Danny, that was all that I was calling for. I would not suggest for one moment that other posters should go elsewhere with their tales of gaining a Pilot Brevet, other Brevets, or indeed any other Rite of Passage, into the RAF, FAA or AAC.


This thread has broken so many of the OP restraints that WWII (not WW11 :=) has now been left far behind. My point is that we still have that link with Cliff et al in Danny, and we are all keen for him to go on telling his story. If for any reason he needs a bit of a sabbatical from what must not become an onerous task for him then again my apologies, not least to Danny. We have many offerings to keep the pot boiling meantime.


In short I agree with Beagle (a variation on "I agree with Nick"!) to go with the flow. Just make sure that Danny is accorded the fast flowing current mid stream in this best of all PPRuNe threads!

Dave Wilson
11th Dec 2013, 21:52
I'm easy, just didn't want the chap to think that the thread had gone adrift.

Danny42C
11th Dec 2013, 22:17
Now God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen ! Danny is Resting on his Arms Reversed, and fully enjoying the hoo-ha that has suddenly erupted.

He has, if you recall, in the past often said that this Prince of Threads must on no account become a Monologue, or a Duet, or even a Trio. Emphatically, no one individual or group has any ownership rights in it whatever. This is a FORUM: it is open to all men of good will all the time to put their two cents' worth in (subject always to the Moderators).

If we stick to our old Crewroom analogy, we can't go far wrong. (Resume normal navigation)...D.

camlobe,

So you got there at last ! Congratulations ! Now for a life of idle luxury (well, you could dream, couldn't you). And the Vultures retire baffled, balked of their prey !

The Tripacer - only seen pictures of it - wasn't that the thing that had ailerons and rudder connected together, so you did everything with one wheel/yoke ? Or am I thinking of something else ?

My abiding memory of AOC's Inspections was the poor devil I found in bed in my (otherwise) spotless hut ten minutes before the Great Man was due to inspect, and his (the poor devil's) eviction and shivering exile over the hedge until the All Clear - and the Polyfiller Cake !....D.

Dave Wilson,

I had the (one and only) OMQ at Breighton in '63-'64. The Bloodhounds had left, there was no flying (or anything else) at all then...D.

Chugalug,

I never knew that your sojourn in the premier Cadet College in the land lasted three years in those days. No wonder you were all imbuded with that air of effortless superiority which marked you out from the rabble !(only joking !)

I, too, welcome the sudden influx of the Royal Navy into our incomparable Thread. Ah, for the times when we flew the aircraft, and let them sail the boats on whose roofs we landed. (This was a sensible division of labour) Let the Cobbler stick to his Last ! All this talk about the many types of Boats makes me doubly glad that the unscheduled end of my war saved me from becoming the proud (?) temporary owner of a Bomb Scow.

Danny does indeed wait in the wings, but as interested as anybody else in the long tales of misfortune and maltreatment that follow the Taking of the Shilling. It always was and will always be that the Ardua must come first before the Ad Astra. There is still plenty of my story to come. (And when the Good Lord made Time, he made Plenty of It).

Your: "it is always his turn" - No, it's not ! - I'm not the "Primus inter Pares" here (read my discaimer above). But thank you for the kind and considerate words....D.

MPN11, ancientaviator, camlobe (again) and MPN11 (again),

As above to Chugalug ! I'm enjoying the rest, enables me to get a Draft or two ahead of the game.

MPN11,
(your quote: ["I feel rather bad and dirty now"] Get that idea right out of your head at once !....D.

Dave Wilson,

No, if you don't mind. I know the Thread title is limiting - and must one day be irrelevant - but let's stay in the one Crewroom together till that happens (Mods to note, please)...D.

MPN11 (once again),

I think your insight into the Moderators' view of us and our maunderings is correct. Where is the cut-off ? There cannot be a cut off - Our stories form one long contination of that irrepressible RAF spirit which flowered during the war, and has lasted among us ever since. Prune became Bloggs, but he is the same man, with the same host of helpers - ever young at heart and cheerful....D.

Goodnight to you all - never fear, you'll hear from me again soon (I hope !),

Danny.

Dave Wilson
11th Dec 2013, 22:30
I had the (one and only) OMQ at Breighton in '63-'64. The Bloodhounds had left, there was no flying (or anything else) at all then...D.
Crikey Danny, have you ever been back there? I think you'd love it. I go up there quite a bit. I shot a vid of a visit when I was messing around with my iPad and the aircraft you see are all based there apart from the wing walker. Be fascinating if you recognise any of it on the approach.

Landing at Breighton 7 Oct 12 - YouTube

Edit: By the way Danny I don't know where you live but I would be honoured to fly you up there if you can still climb in and out of an aircraft!

Danny42C
11th Dec 2013, 23:14
Dave,

Beautiful video ! l looked hard, but couldn't orientate myself accurately. Our house was at the end of Bubwith Road (Lane ?), it would have been on the West side of the airfield.

When we were there there was just arable farmland behind (ie to the East) of the house, whatever remained of the wartime buildings and the Bloodhound sites would have been further East still, we never even went across to look at what was left (there would have been little to see, anyway). Our dog enjoyed the field, but that was all.

There would seem to be a lot more water about than I remember, and the place is much more wooded. But trees can grow a lot in 50 years. The house is probably hidden among them now. So no joy, I'm afraid - but thanks for trying, all the same.

And there was the dear old Stearman (the wing-walker, I presume). I had 60 hours on them in Florida in '41 - '42 (Primary School in USAAF), from which my moniker "42C" is derived.

Cheers, Danny.

EDIT: Thanks for the generous offer of the flight, but I'm far too frail now to take advantage of it. But thank you all the same.

Sorry to pour cold water on your idea of splitting the thread, but I'd prefer to keep together till the end (can't be far now). Goodnight, Danny.

Union Jack
11th Dec 2013, 23:22
He has, if you recall, in the past often said that this Prince of Threads must on no account become a Monologue, or a Duet, or even a Trio. Emphatically, no one individual or group has any ownership rights in it whatever. This is a FORUM: it is open to all men of good will all the time to put their two cents' worth in (subject always to the Moderators).

Most elegantly phrased, Danny, as ever, and one can only simply add a fervent "Hear! Hear!
However, regarding your comment regarding Dartmouth that ....

No wonder you were all imbued with that air of effortless superiority which marked you out from the rabble !(only joking !)

I have to confess that this wasn't invariably so, as proved by the post I recently made on the concurrent thread regarding the new look Military Tournament at Earl's Court, further to a mention of the "Manning the Mast" at HMS GANGES in Suffolk, with the Button Boy shinning up to stand atop the "button" of the near 150 foot high mast. As I posted, having just looked at the YouTube video posted by our mutual friend, Tankertrashnav, quotimg his:

Have a look at this if you're brave!

Or foolish .... since all this reminds me of a visit to l'Ecole Navale, the French equivalent of Dartmouth at Lanvéoc-Poulmic in Brittany when, after a well lubricated evening, our new French "friends" dared some of us to climb their similar, but fortunately not as high, mast with them.

Once we got up to the uppermost top they then proposed that we should all jump together into the safety netting on a count of one, two, three, to which we very foolishly agreed since, after an alcoholic chorus of "un, deux, trois!", we all jumped - and they didn't!:D

We subsequently discovered that the mast was actually out of bounds to all-comers, since the safety netting was deemed to be unfit for purpose .....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

Jack

Danny42C
11th Dec 2013, 23:35
Jack,

I would not dare to speak so about Dartmouth - it is to that younger Seat of Learning in Lincolnshire that my barbs were directed.

(It's only jealousy, really !)

Danny.

EDIT: Shame on you, for letting the Ancient Enemy put one over on you so easily ! What would Nelson have said ? You'd have been keel-hauled for sure !

I bet they're chortling over it yet - sweet revenge on Les Rosbifs for Trafalgar and Waterloo......Danny.

cockney steve
11th Dec 2013, 23:46
As a non-military, non-flying member of PPrune, I've been enthralled by this thread since it's inception and continuance by the late Cliff Nemo and RegLe. I have just spent a happy few hours reading the reminiscences of our latest batch of contributors. thank you all!
It may have started as "gaining a RAF pilot's Brevet in WWII ", but all these accounts help flesh-out the storyof a life in the Forces.
It would, IMHO, be a terrible mistake to exclude these peripheral postings from the tale....keep up the good work, please!

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 06:34
If I may reiterate re splitting the thread, it was just an idle thought! :) I'm more than happy for it to continue as is, not that it's up to me of course.

Danny next time I'm up there I'll have a look for your house and see if I can take a few shots. I never knew it was a Bloodhound base. During the war it was a Halifax station. If it helps the runway orientation is 29 and the strip is on the south side of the old base.

BEagle
12th Dec 2013, 07:13
Danny, you might be interested in this site: Breighton (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?106-Breighton) which contains many photos of Breighton.

This thread The Real Aeroplane Company - Breighton Aerodrome (http://www.realaero.com/history.htm) also includes wartime photos of Breighton as well as the Thor IRBMs and Bloodhound Mk1 SAMs of later years.

The Piper Tri-Pacer, in its 'Caribbean' version, was the first aircraft in which I flew at the age of 11. It's a delightful light aeroplane and benefits from being a 'non-EASA' aeroplane, so is outside the €urocratic nonsense of EASA.

ancientaviator62
12th Dec 2013, 07:49
The copy of the log book of the RAF Observer which I have lists ops from Breighton on 78 Sqn flying Whitleys. An interesting a/c in which to go to war.
Our ex ALAT (French Army) Super Cub resided at Breighton after economics forced us to sell it.

teeteringhead
12th Dec 2013, 08:55
All the previous talk of Hastings reminds me of my one and only trip as a regular - had had a brief trip in CCF cadet days.

It was Flight changeover day (Odiham - Aldergrove in Detachment Days) in early 70s, and our normal Herc couldn't make it. For the appalling reason that it was AOC's at Lyneham, and the Staish wanted max numbers prettily lined up - extend a rotary Detachment in Norn Iron? No problem Sir!

One of our aged Navs (we had few others) had been on 1066 recently, so arranged a Hastings to do the changeover on the right day. Some memories of that trip:

1. The steep slope of the cabin floor - how could something that big have a tailwheel! Made carrying bags, bikes etc (literally) an uphill task.

2. And speaking of bikes - persuading the San Idiot that he'd need to let his tyres down, lest they explode at height (sic) in an unpressurised aircraft.

3. Hasty Bird having to orbit/dogleg to make FL 60 between Odiham and the Woodley Beacon!

Might venture some Training "dits" myself - not Cranditz, not South Cerney, not Henlow, but an RAF Pilot's Commission in the (very) late 1960s ......

ancientaviator62
12th Dec 2013, 10:26
teeteringhead,
as has been so keenly demonstrated in the latest few contributions
I am sure your training input would be very welcome. Ah the Hastings sloping floor, a nightmare to load cargo, vehicles and airdrop into. Not to mention pax, paras etc climbing up those famous rickety ladders. 'Elfinsafety' would have had a fit if it had existed. The arrival of the Herc was manna from heaven.

Chugalug2
12th Dec 2013, 10:32
Message received and understood, Danny. We all now seem to have come to a consensus that the thread should continue gathering testimony from all that have taken the shilling in UK Military Aviation, hopefully in a more or less time sequence (though 'more or less' be the pertinent point as ever).


The one thing that should remain unchanged, I would suggest, should be the thread title. It no longer restricts us to the obtaining of Pilot Brevets, nor of being recruited in the Second World War. It is but a starting point on a journey that hopefully will never end, but "boldly go where no man has gone before"!


So from Star Fleet Academy to the RAF College, and Danny's barb re effortless superiority. No doubt some graduated from there with that quality, but I would suggest that they probably arrived there with it in the first place. As in all the posts that have described joining the RAF and the RN (surely there must be some Army Aviators with a tale to tell?), the Services required Maximum Effort from Day 1. That is the theme that permeates this thread, and always will do. We all found that we were capable of doing what we had not dreamt of prior to joining. The thoroughness with which one had to bull a pair of boots or a barrack hut translated into the care that one took in servicing an engine or of operating it.


Your joke somehow underlines the common experience that unites us all, Danny, no matter when we joined. Maximum effort from the start or we have no use for you. That was the message, and it still is.

camlobe
12th Dec 2013, 10:38
Dave Wilson,
There is a Tri-Pacer near to me that I know very well and like even more...and the owner has offered it to me at a reasonable price. Must get through Christmas first. It is a 1954 aircraft that was exported directly to RSA, and then made its way North to its first operator, the Kenya Police Air Wing (as a bomber) but the rest is another story. And as BEagle has mentioned, it is a non-EASA aircraft, so no direct European beaurocratic excessives. Breighton is on my 'must do' list, maybe next year.

Danny,
Good to hear from you on your R&R. With regard to the Tri-Pacer, although there is a spring interconnect betwixt aileron and rudder (the American method of ensuring coordinated turns...makes for interesting crosswind landings though), I suspect the aircraft you are referring to is the Ercoupe, with all three axis controlled by the yoke, and because it didn't really stall, it couldn't be spun - simple and safe.

I may have earned the right to wear the uniform, but there was a long way to go to get to that final goal. Oh, and the vultures come back at me once or twice again, but maybe later.

Teeteringhead
My only experience of Hastings (aircraft that is) was a wonder around and in one, Newark air Museum perhaps? Far steeper incline than what this tail dragging Erk was used to.

And I for one look forward to your "dits".

Camlobe

Carry on regardless.

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 12:13
Breighton is on my 'must do' list, maybe next year.Indeed you must, it's one of English GA's little gems.

Danny, just caught your comment re the water at Breighton, there had been heavy rain the week before and the Derwent had burst it's banks, hence all of the large puddles!

Beags, thanks for the link, I've looked at that website many times but never looked at the history bit! I was surprised to learn that the Bloodhound stayed in service until '91 (and indeed until '99 with the Swiss.)

When I did my Red Top/Firestreak course at Newton in '85 the Bloodhound training facility was there also, they were painted camo green at the time (the Bloodhounds that is, not the training facility...). I thought they looked far more fetching in white. Newton at the time was also the training camp for the Provost branch which was an interesting and informative time for we techies...they were an odd lot but I'm sure very nice inside.

At the time I developed bursitis on the heel of my foot (I don't recommend it) so went to the vet's and was excused service footwear until it had gone down. I had to wear trainers as they were the only thing that relieved the pain. The other foot was fine but to give a little uniformity I wore trainers on both feet. I might add that they were black trainers, not some flashy Nike jobs. That is until Mr Plod asked why I was wearing trainers. I told them and they thought long and hard, the decision being that I should wear a service shoe on the good foot and a trainer on the other. I'm serious. So I lopsidedly shuffled around the unit until my training boss had a quiet word in their shell like and I went back to trainers on both feet. They were interesting times.

ancientaviator62
12th Dec 2013, 13:30
Dave,
the two things we B/Es craved were to be issued with an 'excused boots chit' and an 'excused parades chit'. I was too young for the ultimate, the 'excused shaving chit'.

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 13:36
I didn't need to shave when I joined up...:). Once every two or three days did just fine. Complexion like a baby you see.

On the boots/shoes, they seriously discussed the meaning of the wording on the med chit. 'Does excused service footwear mean just for the affected foot or not.' 'I don't know if there's a precedent for that'. etc etc. Odd fellows but probably very good to their children.

I had to laugh at the 'excused parades' chit. For some reason known only to God I was part of the station parade team at 30MU, Sealand. I certainly didn't volunteer but being fairly tall probably looked the part of a lean and mean tech. Photochromatic spectacles had just come out (or 'panchromaticall' as my dear old Mum used to call them) and you can't wear sunglasses on parade, yes? Being a spectacle wearer I spent a fair wedge on these new, parade dodging specs. Come the next bone crushingly boring rehearsal for something or other I slyly donned them. They did what they said on the tin and went dark, just as the parade FS was demonstrating a move that he obviously found interesting but no one else did. He turned to face us and saw me, there was a moments silence and he said 'Bet those cost a few bob Dave' and carried on. Swine.

Which reminds me of when I was at the previously mentioned Newton and there was a freedom of Radcliffe parade or something of the sort. It was in a cricket pavillion I seem to remember which is one of the stranger places I've paraded but there was beer and tucker for after so I didn't mind doing this one.

The bayonets and scabbards had obviously lingered on the store shelf for many years as the bayonets were extremely stiff to withdraw. So come the day, we are arranged before the local high and mighty when the order 'Fix bayonets' is squawked. I gave mine an almighty heave from behind and the whole thing broke free from my webbing belt, the bayonet with scabbard firmly in place. No time to faff around I would break the flow if I tried to do anything so I stuck it on the rifle.

Around came the mayor smiling and nodding as they do until he came to me when an surprised expression came upon his visage. 'Yes' I thought 'We all know what's wrong mate, let's just move along'.

It wasn't until afterwards that his wife whispered in my ear 'Do you know your flies are undone?' I looked down and the shocking truth hit me, Front row, her Maj's finest NCO, scabbard on rifle and flies undone. Well they shouldn't have asked me to do bloody parades should they.

Union Jack
12th Dec 2013, 15:07
Whilst not really wishing to "black cat" Dave's post:E, I can modestly and curiously enough lay claim to a similar double, the first part whilst a Midshipman at Dartmouth, and the second whilst Deputy Training Commander at a major shore establishment.

On the first occasion, I was in the middle rank of the guard of honour for a visiting Japanese Admiral, for whom we had just completed a General Salute. On ordering arms prior to his inspection, a sub continental mid in the rear rank lost control of his rifle, and his bayonet plunged through the shoulder of my No 5 jacket and my shirt, leaving me bleeding, but thankfully with little more than a scratch. Somewhat inevitably, I was propelled forward and so succeeded in catching my own rifle in the top pocket of my No 5s, and tearing some six inches of cloth in the process.

The Japanese Admiral said nothing when he paused momentarily in front of me, having clearly seen the torn jacket but, as he passed down between the middle and rear ranks, he paused behind me, having seen my torn and bloodied shoulder, and uttered the immortal words, "I think you breeding"!:\

On the second occasion, umpteen years later, having just attended a major parade during which my nether regions felt unusually cold, I had retreated to the gym for coffee, and was sitting chatting to a group of junior officers who seemed in particularly high spirits for some unknown reason. The Captain, who had been on the dais immediately behind me on the parade, then arrived and promptly made a beeline for me, so I naturally stood up, only to be told briskly to sit down. I demurred, only for him to repeat the instruction, so I quickly sat down. For some reason, the junior officers had melted away, still grinning as the Captain told me to check carefully the seat of my pants, when I promptly discovered a truly literal meaning of the expression "split from arsehole to breakfast time".....:eek:

Jack

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 15:16
It's unexpected Jack isn't it, like a dream of running naked down the street in front of nuns or suchlike. What had happened is that my zip fastener was done up but there had been a mode failure of the zip itself, it had come apart beneath the fastener. I had oiled my scabbard to try and help it along but the frog on the webbing belt was weak. I forgot to mention that the frog was dangling merrily from the scabbard as well.

I was exonerated by my parade commander who was in stitches. :)

Union Jack
12th Dec 2013, 15:43
I was exonerated by my parade commander who was in stitches.

Unexpected indeed, rather like a bayonet in the back, whilst in my second dit, I was without stitches .....:)

Jack

Danny42C
12th Dec 2013, 16:04
Jack and Dave,

Once I ordered: "FIX.......BAYONETS !".... (and forgot what to say next !)

The shame of that moment is still with me ! (the parade W.O. saved me, hissing "Atten-shun" behind me sotto voce (but not sotto enough).

D.

BEagle
12th Dec 2013, 16:08
Back at RAFC, before plastic webbing made its appearance, the only way to get a blancoe'd webbing 'sling' to fit one's 7.62mm shoulder cannon with the required tightness was to operate the locking lever to open the weapon, attach the ends of the sling to the swivel jobbers, then snap it shut. Naturally this didn't do the rifle much good as it put rather a strain on the locking thing...and was strictly forbidden.

One miserable early morning, a Flt Cdt duly attached his webbing in this outlawed manner. All went fine until the command 'Preeeeesent...ARMS'. On the second movement, which involved a smart smack to the side of the weapon, the locking thing decided it had known better days. The rifle bent in the middle (like a one string fiddle) and in the ensuing silence, just before the band struck up, the sound of various bits of oily black metal escaping from the rifle and rattling onto the parade ground could be heard, amongst much general tittering and guffawing. Needless to say, the parade commander went into low earth orbit; Flt Cdt Dimwit and as much of the remains of his SLR as he could find were promptly booted off the parade ground.....doubtless to be awarded many days 'Strikers' for such a co.ck-up on parade!

MPN11
12th Dec 2013, 16:37
Oh, dammit, I can't remember. What was it we did with the magazine on the No. 4, so that when you hit it during the Present it made a good sharp sound? Did we just release the magazine catch, relying on that bow-taut sling to keep the bu99er in place until the third movement of the "Present"?

Bullsh1t Unlimited :)
Only works if we all do it at the same time, of course, unlike L/Cpl Jones :p

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 16:53
Take the spring out and fill it with ball bearings? Seem to remember that being done.

MPN11
12th Dec 2013, 18:44
Take the spring out and fill it with ball bearings? Seem to remember that being do
Sounds awfully RAF Regiment :O

Certainly never did that. How could you afford ball bearings on 2 groats a day?

goudie
12th Dec 2013, 19:24
when you hit it during the Present
As a regular Guard of Honour chap ISTR the trick was, to not quite fit the magazine fully locked in.
Could have been disastrous but I don't recall any embarrassing moments

MPN11
12th Dec 2013, 19:27
Thanks, goudie ... I thought I still had a functioning brain cell when it comes to drill!! :ok:

clicker
12th Dec 2013, 22:06
Used to do the same when in the cadets. Most mags would hold in place if you just kept it against the catch point.

That reminds me, how many times did someone try to catch you out with a blank round in the breech hoping you would not check the weapon and pull the trigger.

On one squadron I was with a WO used to do that and finally it happened, idiot cadet pulls trigger and "BANG". Right in the middle of a visit by the local mayor. Just as well it was in the 60's and not in the 10's.

Dave Wilson
12th Dec 2013, 22:44
That reminds me, how many times did someone try to catch you out with a blank round in the breech hoping you would not check the weapon and pull the trigger.

:eek:.........

camlobe
12th Dec 2013, 23:53
Glad to say, I managed to avoid Guards of Honour for most of my career. Just as well. Sounds too bloody dangerous to me.

Ancientaviator62,
I once got a "permission to not shave for a week" for myself and the two prop forwards, but never had the chit. Never got pulled up for stubble though.

Dave Wilson,
I can only remember visiting Newton once during its tenure as Plod HQ. We (Squadron, All Ranks) weren't allowed to continue our onward journey until 'reviewed' by a Flt Lt in SD cap, greatcoat and slippers! but more of that later.

Next step forward.
Camlobe is no longer a raw recruit, but he is is still just AC camlobe. After a short period of leave which the kind people at RAF HQ decided we were due, it was back on the train. Next stop Buckinghamshire. Number 1 School of Trade Training, RAF Halton. I am amongst brethren this time as all trainees are travelling in Number One's. Once again, when we detrain, there are a selection of DI's there to make us feel welcome. But we have been here before, and it is taken in our stride. Bedford Bus, our familiar method of transport, eases us of toward our new home. All goes well until we turn up the hill through the camp gate. In Lincolnshire, there was no issue, but here, thar be hills. The bus all but dies getting us up to the Parade Square. We are 'politely' invited to debus, and a roll call is taken. Many of our number are marched back onto the bus and head off to the "other side". These are the Trenchard's Brats, or RAF Aircraft Trade Apprenticies, and they will be spending the next three years at Halton learning about the 'heavy' side (Airframes and Engines). Those apprentices going for the 'light' side (avionics - Air Radio and Air Radar) are going through an identical process at RAF Cosford, and will be forever known as Fairies. Most of these young lads are 16 years old, and have come straight from school and Basic Training.
Those of us left standing are now sorted into groups by trade. At Halton, it was Engines, Airframes and Weapons. Electricians and Navigational Instruments were trained at Cosford.
From the Parade Square, we are marched off to the three-storey blocks and introduced to our 18 man rooms, home for the next six months. A few of my room mates from Swinderby are still my room mates. We start unpacking, and then a couple of us stop and have a meeting. Two of us are 19, and three are 18. The other thirteen are 16. Now, that might not sound like much of a difference, but to an 18 or 19 year old, it is a huge age gap. The five of us aren't ageist, but we have signed on the dotted line as Adult Entry Technicians. The minimum criteria for this method of entry was; must be 18 years of age or older; must have previous technical experience. We ask our fellow room mates what they have signed up for. They are all on a Direct Entry Technician scheme, straight from school. We five decide we better have this sorted as we are obviously in the wrong room.

The Discip Sergeant is surprisingly welcoming and approachable, and listens intently to our quandary. He immediately gets on to the blower and it seems as if he is ringing around the whole of Training Command in order to sort out our issue. After a considerable length of time, he tells us to sit down while he updates us on our future. We are no longer Adult Entry Technicians, as the RAF did away with this scheme a couple of months ago. If we wish to continue our technical training to the same end result i.e. complete technical training successfully and gain promotion to Junior Technician, then we must join the 16 year olds on the Direct Entry format. The only real difference other than the age difference is, training is no longer six months, but nine. Or we can remuster.

We are stunned. The RAF offered us a path, we agreed and signed up, and then, without telling us beforehand, they removed the goalposts. For the five of us, this was the hardest part to accept. The extra three months at AC wages we could tolerate. Stuck with a bunch of very young guys for a long time was going to be difficult. But the lack of decency is what hurt hardest.

The Sergeant very wisely and kindly advises us to go away, have a cuppa and chew it over, and let him know what we wish to do. We find the NAAFI and sit down. After having a good team winge, we all agree that we are here now, let's keep going. The RAF might not care about us, but we sure cared about the RAF. We decided we would make it through this, and we would not leave anyone of us behind. We must have had a determined look on our faces because the Sergeant took a step backwards when we returned. When we told him of OUR decision, he genuinely looked pleased. Maybe it was wind.

Camlobe

You play ball with the RAF, and they will still shove the bat up your a%$e.

Danny42C
13th Dec 2013, 00:10
To All it May Concern Below:

I seem to have started so many hares running at the same time, that the only way to get ahead of the pack is to lift a phrase or two from your Posts singly, and then put in a word or two in italic:

#4742 MPN11,

What we actually need is Danny to stop sitting on his bum at Gut, and get himself to Shawbury to be an ATC teeecher.....

Danny was sitting at Geilenkirchen , not Gütersloh, and will be for the next two years, then two more at Linton-on-Ouse, before he was let loose on the eager young Seekers after Knowledge 'twixt Grins Hill and the Wrekin ! Be patient and all will be revealed...D

#4753 Dave Wilson,

Danny next time I'm up there I'll have a look for your house and see if I can take a few shots........

Thanks, but found it last year on Google Street Search. It's right down the end of Bubwith Lane, recognisable as a red brick post-war (S/Ldrs) OMQ, trees around much grown up; it was the only MQ built there (for the C.O., I believe). Everyone else had to shift for themselves ! (I was at Linton, got the place as no one else wanted it - too far out in the sticks)
.
#4760 Danny, just caught your comment re the water at Breighton, there had been heavy rain the week before and the Derwent had burst it's banks, hence all of the large puddles!...

Ah, so ! Even so, I can't 'fix' myself anywhere - sorry......D.


#4754 Beagle,

BREIGHTON Danny, you might be interested in this site: Breighton which contains many photos of Breighton. This thread, The Real Aeroplane Company - Breighton Aerodrome also includes wartime photos of Breighton as well as the Thor IRBMs and Bloodhound Mk1 SAMs of later years.........

Thanks, very interesting - the second site was the more informative, and there were tantalising spots on the shots that "might have been". Searched the first (overhead) picture, down at the SW edge saw something possible, but under magnification - no)

The Piper Tri-Pacer, in its 'Caribbean' version, was the first aircraft in which I flew at the age of 11. It's a delightful light aeroplane and benefits from being a 'non-EASA' aeroplane, so is outside the €urocratic nonsense of EASA........

What was EASA, please ? Thanks again, (camlobe answers the question of the control coupling below) ....D.


#4758 Chugalug,

The one thing that should remain unchanged, I would suggest, should be the thread title. It no longer restricts us to the obtaining of Pilot Brevets, nor of being recruited in the Second World War. It is but a starting point on a journey that hopefully will never end, but "boldly go where no man has gone before"!....

Yes ! I regard my function as a wick around which other Posts can coalesce, like wax on a candle while I hang on to the old Title.

Your joke somehow underlines the common experience that unites us all, Danny, no matter when we joined. Maximum effort from the start or we have no use for you. That was the message, and it still is....Well said, sir !.....D.


#4759 camlobe ,

Danny,
Good to hear from you on your R&R. With regard to the Tri-Pacer, although there is a spring interconnect betwixt aileron and rudder (the American method of ensuring coordinated turns...makes for interesting crosswind landings though), I suspect the aircraft you are referring to is the Ercoupé, with all three axis controlled by the yoke, and because it didn't really stall, it couldn't be spun - simple and safe.......

You're right - it was the Ercoupé I had in mind ! - I remember when I were a lad, they said that about the Flying Flea (you could get the airframe for £75 from Lewis's [Department Store] in L'pool - needed some light home assembly !). You had to buy your own engine - they recommended the Scott "Flying Squirrel" M/Bike twin aircooled unit. The thing killed quite a few people before they found it wasn't as quite stall-proof as they'd thought.

They were interesting times....

and we were fated to live in them (the old Chinese curse !) ...D.


#4763 Fareastdriver,

Don't knock it......

or Chugalug will be on you like a ton of bricks !...D.

Next Post in ASAP, Cheers to all, Danny.

Danny42C
13th Dec 2013, 00:47
Our route from the last stretch of autobahn across country to GK led us through a number of small country towns and villages, Fifty years ago we soon noticed differences from British practice. For a start, when they wanted to do a repair to the road surface, or dig a hole for the utilities, there was none of this business of sticking in a set of traffic lights (or a man with a red flag) and working a one-way system.

They simply closed the whole road off and set up a diversion (sometimes for miles) right round it. The villagers calmly accepted the dislocation, and I must say that the road workers generally got on with the job and finished it without undue delay.

In consequence, it was reckoned that the most often seen road sign in Germany was "Umleitung" (Diversion), but there was always plenty of the signs, one at every junction. They did not give you just one or two, and leave you to find your own way after that - as sometimes happens here at times, I'm afraid.

At home in those days, it was a common thing to find yourself head-on to a herd of cows coming in for milking, or sheep going to or coming from market (there are still some road warning signs on roads round here with a cow picture). These would, of course, block the whole road; there was nothing for it but wait patiently for the stream of animals to flow past before moving on. In the wake of a herd of cattle, the braking distance tended to increase !

There was little sheep-farming in the district of Heinsberg (which included GK), and the dairy or beef farmers were all smallholders , with no more than a dozen beasts each. They had found an answer to the problem of moving them about. A tractor would tow a long pole, and on both sides the cattle were chained by the neck to it, up to four beasts spaced down each side. The tractor was driven at slow walking pace, the animals did not seem to mind, I suppose they were used to it - and in any case they had little option. But a lane was left free for traffic.

The frequent "umleitungs" sent you into strange territory; there were some narrow-gauge steam lines snaking round the countryside, and these just crossed the roads and lanes as they pleased without any crossing control (I think there must have been warning signs on the roads). Luckily they were not TGVs, but ambled along at 15-20 mph, so it was easy to keep out of their way.

The German traffic rules for fog or poor visibility by day were the same as ours (IIRC) - it was up to the driver to decide whether to put lights on or not - but if he did it must be on dipped main beam. Two of our people were running in to GK in convoy. It was a misty morning, one was on sidelights (we have such folk among us yet). The Polizei grabbed him (Dm5 on-the-spot fine). His mate (no lights at all) sailed through unscathed.

The Volkspark run was the scene of a remarkable escape one day. One of our Controllers had come out after me. He was ex-aircrew (I don't know if war or postwar), had got badly burned (like Simon Weston) in a crash which ended his flying career. I've forgotten his name, but I remember the new export car he'd brought out. It was a P4 Rover 80 - I'd never seen such luxury - truly it was a "little Rolls-Royce". (Few of us could afford a car like that).

Anyway he was driving back to the Volkspark with his son (around 8, I think). Probably his wife was in front, for the lad was in the back with a Corporal to whom they'd given a lift. They were bowling along (not sure whether on autobahn or not). The boy started fiddling with the door catch on his side, the horrified Corporal leapt across to stop him, between the two the door flew open and the youngster fell out (the rear door hinge was at the back).

Our chap left a thousand miles' worth of rubber on the road. By good fortune, the traffic behind was well back, saw what had happened, and was able to keep well clear of the car and the boy. He must instinctively have adopted the "paratrooper's roll", spun along into the nearside verge, and wasn't far behind when they jumped out and scooped him up. He was not unconscious, but catatonic with shock and quite quiet. There were no obvious serious injuries.

They were close to Cologne, they kept going and rushed him to the Medical Centre in the Volkspark. They gave him first-aid, sedated him; an ambulance took him up to the RAF hospital at Wegberg. He was a very sore little boy for a long time, with abrasions and bruises, but miraculously no real damage had been done and he made a full recovery.

The Corporal was in an agony of remorse, of course, but it wasn't his fault, he'd acted for the best. What happened had been a pure accident.

Goodnight, chaps,

Danny42C.


Wonders will never cease !

Dave Wilson
13th Dec 2013, 01:03
What was EASA, please ?

What is EASA Danny. It's the European Aviation Safety Agency. I think the 'European' should be enough to give you the shivers. You really don't want to know but Beags is the expert, I'm sure he'll point out a website or two.

ancientaviator62
13th Dec 2013, 08:04
Fareastdriver,
nice pic of TG 528 taken I presume at Duxford before she was repainted and moved indoors. After disposal in 1968, 528 went to the Skyfame Museum at Staverton. I went to pay my respects and a young chap showed me round. In the galley I put my hand down the sound proofing and produced a pad of trim sheets and a stick of paper cups. He was astounded and asked how I knew they were there. I explained you could have found the same on any Hastings. 528 is in my log book but chugalug is the Hastings meister on these threads. He may be persuaded to tell his tale of the 'interesting' arrival he once had at West Raynham in a Hastings. The Hastings was described as being built of old Halifax parts left over From WW2.

camlobe
13th Dec 2013, 09:17
Not long after the initial start of powered, controlled flight, the American authorities decided that a body should be put in place to regulate and promote aviation, this body being entitled the Civil Aeronautics Administration. This blossomed into the now worldwide Federal Aviation Administration. The FAA have done an excellent job of making practical and generally well thought out regulations for all aspects of aviation, from ATC, through manufacturing, maintenance and operation of aircraft.

The disparate European countries all had their own regulations as did the UK, in our case, administered by the Civil Aviation Authority. The French had the DGAC, the Germans the LBA etc, etc. and they were all different.

The large transport aircraft market became filled by American manufacturers. Boeing, Douglas, Lockheed, etc following the demise of the UK aircraft manufacturers (and to a similar extent, the French).

Then a new kid appeared on the block, Airbus. This conglomerate was made up of European manufacturers, each constructing sub-assemblies of the embryonic Airbus A3XX series of airliners. A far more affordable route for the European manufacturers.

But the various European countries were looking much further ahead. They wanted to be able to shoulder up to the great FAA on an equal footing. This would mean that all the European aviation authorities would have to amalgamate into one body. In the early 1990's, the Joint Aviation Authorities was the result, and aviation was introduced to Joint Aviation Requirements. Think of one new set of GUIDELINES for all European countries. Guidelines, because none of it was ratified and made law. The UK CAA, always wanting to be at the forefront, enforced almost all of these new guidelines as mandatory. The basic idea of one set of rules throughout Europe sounds almost sensible. However, each and every Member State retained the right to change or ignore any part or whole of any of these guidelines. It was a shambles.

Airbus, gained parity with the American manufacturers a couple of years ago in terms of hulls constructed per annum. Well done.

Unfortunately, over a decade ago, it was accepted by the EU that JAR's weren't working as originally envisaged. So they changed the name to European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) rewrote and ratified the regulations, and they rushed it. Unfortunately, it is now law, and it is taking over ten years to try and sort some of it out. Another shambles. Industry was not consulted in any genuine sense. Graduates sat around tables and made regulations about subjects that they had absolutely no experience of. And the rest of us have had to pick up the pieces and huge bills. It has not been, and is still not a good experience.

The reality is, industry was very happy with the idea of one system. Any of us on here knows that the "one system everywhere" worked in the UK Armed Forces. There was never any doubt, as the general rules were the same, no matter where you were posted. The aviation industry was almost unanimous in the idea of adopting the largest civil system in use at the time, the FAA system. Politics wouldn't allow it.

To give some idea of the EASA regulation creating process, a working group was drafting up another new regulation, this one for the requirements for the carriage of radio and other Nav aids in an aircraft. After considerable quantities of ink and coffee, complete with rounds of back slapping, the UK representative enquires about the regulations for aircraft that were non-radio. None of the European rule-makers were aware that an aircraft could possibly be capable of flight without a radio.

Camlobe

You couldn't make it up.

BEagle
13th Dec 2013, 09:39
The same bunch of €urocratic imbeciles also decided that all aircraft must be fitted with airspeed indicators....


....including balloons. :rolleyes:

Fortunately the frog in charge has now left, much to everyone's relief. Another Frenchman now runs EASA; he at least is a pilot.

Our CAA has at last woken up to the realisation that they need to behave like Churchill, not Chamberlain, towards the Kölnic irritation of EASA's €urocracy.

A few of us have dug in our heels and refused to roll over to stupidity and with CAA backing, have at least managed to win a few victories.

EASA wanted one set of rules for the whole of the Rei....of Europe. And presumably tomorrow, the world. Hence we see ridiculous concepts such as Mountain Ratings....in the Netherlands.

Geriaviator
13th Dec 2013, 10:14
Ahhh, EASA, latest in the long line of acronyms for aviation governance. My first was the ARB, Air Registration Board, which was set up in 1936 to control civil aviation, and my engineer's licence was granted 45 years ago after a three-year course overseen by ARB surveyor C. H. Taylor from Manchester.

Charlie Taylor (of course he was Mr. Taylor to me) had been responsible for keeping 80-odd Tiger Moths in the air at some wartime training station, and knew them inside out. When he had time on his visits to conduct C of A annual inspections he took me around our group Tiger to show me every known point of possible failure and where to find the repair schemes for it. Having passed my written exams, my final hurdle was the oral exam conducted by the ARB surveyor on each type to be added to the licence. My oral on the Tiger lasted almost two hours, double the usual, and he seemed as delighted as I was when he declared I had passed.

About 1971 Mr. Taylor told me that a new body was to replace the ARB and would license me on whole groups of similar aircraft rather than individual types. Of course I was delighted (with exams at £30 a time) but he said it was not all good news as the new systems might not function as well as the old.

Like most of his generation, Mr. Taylor was guarded in his comments but foresaw the vast and expensive bureaucracy that would flourish in the CAA. On one of his last visits before retirement he told me: "I don't think the industry really needs all this administration ... when the weight of the paperwork equals the max takeoff weight of the aircraft, then it's fit to fly".

Decades have passed and I'm long out of touch, but I did hear that one of EASA's triumphs was the introduction of new transponders to display info such as the aircraft registration as well as the usual four-digit squawk and the altitude. Long-suffering aircraft operators forked out thousands of pounds for each installation but hey, it helps safety doesn't it?

Came the day of the great switch-on, and ATC screens over northern Europe were plastered by all the extra info to the extent that individual aircraft were hard to distinguish. Crews were asked to turn off the new mode until requested.

I fear this thread is veering off course again, so I'll say no more other than We had the Best Days!

Dave Wilson
13th Dec 2013, 14:54
The EASA vomit that really appalled me was their attempt to get rid of the UK IMC rating. The European Aviation SAFETY Agency wanted to scrap a rating which since it was introduced some time in the 60's has seen the loss of ONE IMC rated pilot flying in bad weather. Compared to deaths on the continent UKGA has a proud record of safety (I know it might not seem it at times).

I take my hat off to people like Beags and AOPA becuse due to their stirling efforts the goons have had a rethink and there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Beags if we ever meet the first one is on me.

BEagle
13th Dec 2013, 15:29
That's very kind of you, Dave.

When we heard that the FCL.008 gang had failed to come up with a proposal for the retention of the UK IMCR, the first change we secured was to retain IMCR privileges for those who'd ever held them before.

Then when we learned about the French getting their way with their Brevet de Base, I proposed to EASA that this precedent should also be exteneded to the IMCR. "No", they said, "That's not possible!".

Well, that was May 2011. So we then called for the restoration of the pervious JAA flexibility. But the 'One Rule, one Europe, one Leader!' attitude of these €urocrats was having none of it.

But then in October 2013, the European Commission, rather than the square-heads in EASA, came up with exactly the proposal I'd first propose 2½ years previously...and the vote in favour was unanimous. It should now become law in (probably) June 2014.

Danny and his generation fought to ensure that Great Britain would survive rather than be crushed under jackboots - and despite the wishes of deviant politicians, I was damned if I was going to let some unelected €urocrats push us around some 70 years later. Fortunately, there is now a change in the air and it seems that a more robust manner is now being taken by the UK when dealing with €urocracy.

One hesitates to draw politics into PPRuNe, but googling 'Nigel Farage vs. Barroso' on YoofTube is always good for some light relief!

Now let's get back to the theme of the thread!

One

MPN11
13th Dec 2013, 16:00
Absolutely, BEagle ... anything to do with €urope is just a convenient place to have an armed conflict :ok:

BEagle
13th Dec 2013, 16:52
As for Brussels....

Capital of Belgium. A small country whose sole reason to exist is to provide a suitable venue for France and Germany to settle their differences without ruining each others' wine harvests.....:hmm:

Warmtoast
13th Dec 2013, 17:07
Ancientaviator42

chugalug is the Hastings meister on these threads. He may be persuaded to tell his tale of the 'interesting' arrival he once had at West Raynham in a Hastings.

This one perhaps - a VERY interesting landing.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Hastings491_zpsbab38022.jpg

PS. Not 100%, but was this at West Raynham?

Gulfstreamaviator
13th Dec 2013, 18:03
I am sure........ don't want to be nosey...


bye bye


glf

Danny42C
13th Dec 2013, 18:32
Could there ever be such a brilliant demonstration of what "our" Thread is really all about ? I put in a perfectly innocuous question ("What was EASA, please ?), and ten Posts later I could write a Doctorate thesis on the subject (and a lot of chaps have had a lot of fun !)

No, this is not "off Thread". This is a Forum working exactly as intended, and our wise Moderators stay their hands and leave us to play nicely.

Now I know what EASA is, I thank my stars that in my youth I could for three years, free as a bird, fly all over a sub-continent with no need to trouble about anybody or anything - certainly no official body - outside the cockpit, with a radio which was good about as far as the wingtip. Them were the days ! (I pity you youngsters).

Re #4788 (Warmtoast): (a) this ought to be on the Caption Competition (b) why is that little knot of goofers pointing and gazing raptly up at the tailwheel ? (c) if there's something wrong with that, why prop it up out of reach ? (d) why would a Hastings need a retractible tailwheel anyway ? (it doesn't go fast enough) (e) how come the ghostly mirror image script got on the back ?

(That should trigger something off !) Danny.

MPN11
13th Dec 2013, 19:16
I remember my first Hastings encounter, when one did a Practice Diversion to Strubby when I was in Local. After the third bounce, I hit the Crash Alarm.

Apparently that was Ops Normal ... I never bothered again. :eek:

Warmtoast
13th Dec 2013, 21:55
Danny42

(c) if there's something wrong with that, why prop it up out of reach ? (d) why would a Hastings need a retractable tailwheel anyway ? (it doesn't go fast enough) (e) how come the ghostly mirror image script got on the back ?


I don't think it's a prop. I reckon it could be the escape rope hanging from the main fuselage door on the port side.
As regards the "ghostly scrip", I've removed it, if only to save you a premature visit to Specsavers complaining about seeing ghostly images or similar!

Danny42C
13th Dec 2013, 22:39
Warmtoast,

Before you scrub off the weird background, I say it's typescript, and "Courier" at that. Mrs D and daughter say it's manuscript, and I should go back to Specsavers and complain. Who's right ?

So it's an escape rope ? In that case, why doesn't the tail flop down ? Surely the CoG can't be that close behind the wheels that it's now forward of them, can it ? Or is the nose staked to the ground in some way ?.....Chugalug ??

Danny.

clicker
13th Dec 2013, 22:46
Looks like the prop tips are not bent in the usual manner befitting an engines turning incident.

And it almost looks like someone is having a leak out of the rear door. :=

Warmtoast
13th Dec 2013, 23:32
Danny42C

I say it's typescript, and "Courier" at that. Mrs D and daughter say it's manuscript, and I should go back to Specsavers and complain. Who's right ?


Actually it's Times New Roman.

As for going to Specsavers complaining of seeing "Ghostly Images", they'll only point out to you that they are opticians, not exorcists, so MY recommendation is to ignore Mrs D's advice and save yourself a journey.

NutLoose
13th Dec 2013, 23:34
Easa.... Grrrrrr, in CAA land my licences were all encompassing on a weight limit, this changed under EASA to a different group system which meant one never really knew what one could sign for without trawling the web..

I am disgusted with the system, I had the DC3 4 6 and 7 on my EASA licence, but also retained my CAA licences for those that never joined the La La licence,
And that begged the question why? If they were going for one licence all should have gone on one, but they didn't.
Several Dc 3 operators ( think Coventry ) had to spend a fortune on both EASA approvals and Engineer licences to convert over to EASA approvals to find that EASA decides a year or so later to remove them back to the CAA licence....
Just as it all settles down, they have had a rethink and the damn things are changing again... Big time...

But enough of that, Danny you might find this interesting.

One Second in the Life of a Racer

by Tom Fey



The Unlimiteds go flashing through the racecourse, engines howling, air shearing, heat waves streaming. Four hundred eighty miles an hour is 8 miles a minute, and the elite racers take about 70 seconds to cover the 9.1 mile Reno course. If you could take a souped P-51 racer flying the circuit at Reno, slow time down, and examine just one second, what would you find?

In that one second, the V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine would have gone through 60 revolutions, with each of the 48 valves slamming open and closed 30 times. The twenty four spark plugs have fired 720 times. Each piston has traveled a total of 60 feet in linear distance at an average speed of 41 miles per hour, with the direction of movement reversing 180° after every 6 inches. Three hundred and sixty power pulses have been transmitted to the crankshaft, making 360 sonic booms as the exhaust gas is expelled from the cylinder with a velocity exceeding the speed of sound. The water pump impeller has spun 90 revolutions, sending 4 gallons of coolant surging through the engine and radiators. The oil pumps have forced 47 fluid ounces, roughly one-third gallon, of oil through the engine, oil cooler, and oil tank, scavenging heat and lubricating the flailing machinery. The supercharger rotor has completed 348 revolutions, its rim spinning at Mach 1, forcing 4.2 pounds or 55 ft³ of ambient air into the combustion chambers under 3 atmospheres of boost pressure. Around 9 fluid ounces of high octane aviation fuel, 7,843 BTUs of energy, has been injected into the carburetor along with 5.3 fluid ounces of methanol/water anti-detonant injection fluid. Perhaps 1/8 fluid ounce of engine oil has been either combusted or blown overboard via the crankcase breather tube. Over 1.65 million foot pounds of work have been done, the equivalent of lifting a station wagon to the top of the Statue of Liberty.

In that one second, the hard-running Merlin has turned the propeller through 25 complete revolutions, with each of the blade tips having arced through a distance of 884 feet at a rotational velocity of 0.8 Mach. Fifteen fluid ounces of spray bar water has been atomized and spread across the face of the radiator to accelerate the transfer of waste heat from the cooling system to the atmosphere.

In that one second, the aircraft itself has traveled 704 feet, close to 1/8 mile, or roughly 1.5% of a single lap. The pilot's heart has taken 1.5 beats, pumping 5.4 fluid ounces of blood through his body at a peak pressure of 4.7 inches of mercury over ambient pressure. Our pilot happened to inspire during our measured second, inhaling approximately 30 cubic inches (0.5 liter) of oxygen from the on-board system, and 2.4 million, yes million, new red blood cells have been formed in the pilot's bone marrow.

In just one second, an amazing sequence of events have taken place beneath those polished cowlings and visored helmets. It's the world's fastest motorsport. Don't blink!

From
AEHS Home (http://www.enginehistory.org/)


So now you know what that engine up front was going through :)

And this is a 1/5th scale running Merlin, film at the end

Merlin XX (http://www.enginehistory.org/ModelEngines/merlin_xx.shtml)

Dave Wilson
14th Dec 2013, 00:00
NutLoose that prose is awesome!

ancientaviator62
14th Dec 2013, 08:49
That is indeed the escape rope hanging down from the port para door of the Hastings. As to whether that is chugalug's incident I am sure he will be along soon to enlighten us. The Hastings like all taildraggers (as I found out with my Cub) has a tendency to swop ends in a crosswind. On the OCU one of the exercises was 'co plot mutual' where two copilots were sent off for training. The subsequent landings were always good spectator sport. If the winds were strong but down(ish) the runway we would be towed out, backwards to the runway and lined up before stating up. Very disconcerting for the pax.
Danny, I wonder what the Vengeance was like in a strong crosswind ?.

Fareastdriver
14th Dec 2013, 08:50
Danny, you should know that tailwheel aircraft nose over at the drop of a hat. Even with that Hastings you can visuaise a vertical line from where the bottom of the wheels are going behind the main spar which is about the CofG.

When I lived at Aldergrove there were innumerable Spitfire 22s tentpegged into the ground when they had hit a patch of Irish bog.

If you're not carefull I'll tell you about National Service training in Rhodesia in the fifties.

ancientaviator62
14th Dec 2013, 09:43
Fareastdriver,
how true that taildraggers will nose over given any opportunity.
We were invited to put our newly restored ex ALAT Supercub in the static display at the French Air Force open day at Cambrai. Excellent weekend but when we came to depart the wind was down the runway but brisk. Taxiing down wind down the very long peri track, I had to be very careful with the brakes so as not to nose over. The problem was exacerbated by a distinct downward slope in a part of the peri track, which merely encouraged the Cub to go even faster. Very careful cadence braking was the order of the day so as to slow down enough to turn safely onto the runway .

Fareastdriver
14th Dec 2013, 10:38
Way back in the days when pilots were trained on Real Aeroplanes like the Provost T1 with a 550hp supercharged radial pulling it along full power checks used to be interesting.
The aircraft was double chocked with chains holding the fore and aft together. To stop it nosing over two airmen, there was National Service in those days so no shortage, would stand by the rudder ahead of the tailplane. As the engine note started rising they would lie across the tailplane so as to keep the tail down. On a cold day the starboard one's bum would freeze but the port one's would be kept warm by the blue flame coming out of the exhaust. At completion a quick waggle of the rudder would bash their heads and they knew they were no longer required.
I did what was probably the last single piston fullpower check apart from the BBHF in the seventies. A Provost WV494 that was on the strength of 23 MU with a ####M No was being disposed of owing to the closer of the MU. It was fully servicable apart from the clock.
Fantastic fun; never did it again.
The aircraft did, I think it is still flying.

This is the closest I have ever got to a noseover.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/Provostcourse.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fareastdriver/media/Provostcourse.jpg.html)

Chugalug2
14th Dec 2013, 11:01
aa62:-
He may be persuaded to tell his tale of the 'interesting' arrival he once had at West Raynham in a Hastings.I think I've already bored here about this incident, but perhaps it was on another thread. We had flown into Northolt from Gutersloh full of Italian Alpine Troops (the ones with feathers in their hats), and then returned empty to West Raynham where we were detached to for Exercise Drumbeat. The landing there was followed shortly after by a swing to the right. I put in rudder to compensate, to no avail. I then opened up the No. 4 engine, to no avail. We were now taking to the grass, so I closed the throttles again, held back on the stick and tried the brakes. One of the many hutments that Danny et al inhabit was looming, but we were still going right, until the starboard wheel decided thus far and no further. We pirouetted around it, and the remaining kinetic energy expended itself by raising the tail (easy thanks to the empty cabin) and thrusting the nose into the boggy grass. We carried out a shutdown (though the Graviner Switch had fired anyway given the final deceleration) and evacuated the aircraft, the Flight Deck Crew through the Eng Escape Hatch, the AQM through the pax door and down the escape rope. It stopped some feet above the ground and he had to jump the rest, strangely it was not long enough for this classic prang config.
Various people then started turning up, some you might expect like the crash crew, others more of a bonus, like RAF and civilian police, and even the Padre. Mercifully his administrations were not required, but if we had been full of pax or any of us were not fully strapped in it might have been different.
I was left to assist the BoI with its inquiries, as the exercise was over the detachment returned to Colerne. West Raynham now busied itself in preparation for its AOC's Inspection next week, with an added feature for him in the middle of the airfield. The BoI kicked off in the meantime. When I said I applied full rudder, which one?. When I said that I opened up the outer engine, which one? Even I could see which way the wind was blowing here, until in the midst of my sputtering explanations there was a knock at the door. It was the detachment Engineering Officer (whose name is etched into my memory as my saviour). He was sorry to interrupt my interrogation but thought that the Board should know that they had inspected the Starboard Wheel and found it to have split around the circumference of the tyre well. It had obviously then seized solid and caused our uncontrolled excursions. It transpired that this was a known weakness in our wheels dating back to the Lancaster and Halifax ones. The Board deliberated and found that they had no further use for me.
I was free to return to my unit, an aircraft was despatched to pick me up (as part of essential training of course). I boarded, to be told by the captain as he climbed out of his seat that the Boss had authorised me to fly the return sector. That one statement of confidence in me meant a great deal in the circumstances. I was blessed with good Bosses throughout my RAF career. I left West Raynham to its AOC's inspection and its new static display, which wasn't static for long. A sling was soon put around the rear fuselage and the aircraft lowered to a more gainly attitude awaiting its fate. It was a Cat5 right off... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

ancientaviator62
14th Dec 2013, 11:42
chugalug,
was this the incident where the Siggie was out in a new Olympic record time and was found to be clutching his duty free as you all gazed at the a/c. ?
Perhaps that was a different occasion or just a good story.

blind pew
14th Dec 2013, 14:29
Camlobe re the tri pacer.
I went on a camping safari in the Masi Mara with a gentleman - David Drummond, GM - amongst other awards, who had flown the tri pacers.
They would get airborne before dawn and look for the heat haze rising through the early morning mist and call in the Lancs to pattern bomb the MaoMao camp sites...although the camp fires were extinguished the heat was enough to change the fog layer.
One morning he took off without doing an outside check...around 1000ft AGL a wing fell off ..he described to me the effects of the controls before he hit the deck.
I later read his biography ..Bwana Drum...a real boys own hero.

The pou du ciel..flying flea..
My father was offered a flight in one from Nice in the 30s ..he and his mate tossed a coin...he lost, mate went first ...and was killed.
I seem to remember that the crashes were caused by a luffing dive...in a steep dive the forward wing affected (blanked) the airflow of the aft one..
Somewhat akin to the hang glider crashes before luffing lines (or reflex) were added.

Danny42C
14th Dec 2013, 18:22
:eek:Nutloose,

Re: EASA - it was ever thus ("That was Yesterday - It's All Been Changed") Yes, Danny finds it very interesting, says, and notes in italic:

"In that one second, the V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine would have gone through 60 revolutions",

(3,600 rpm - surely not ! every Spit and the few Hurricanes I ever flew, it was 3,000 max. Could they have "souped it up" to that extent ? Is it even possible ?) Come in, the Engine Fitters and Mechs !

...."with each of the 48 valves slamming open and closed 30 times"..... (25, as above)....."The twenty four spark plugs have fired 720 times".... (Yes, but not each one) ...... "as the exhaust gas is expelled from the cylinder with a velocity exceeding the speed of sound".... (which is why we've all been high-tone deaf for the rest of our lives - it is also the source of that "tearing" sound from a Merlin which has just gone past at full chat).

Poetic exuberance - but doesn't it just stir the heart ! Thanks again, Nutloose.

PS: ("Loctite", is the stuff you want - but you've heard that already, I suppose). Danny.

ancientaviator62,

It looks a heck of a rope ! - you could tie up the QE2 with that. We still haven't solved the problem: what was it doing to get like that ? The nose doesn't look damaged, the props aren't bent. Could they have braked heavily, the cargo broke loose and finished up on the Flight Deck ? (Chugalug, we have need of thee - what do you think may have happened here ? - and somebody must know).

VVs in a crosswind ?, most of the time there didn't seem much wind (except in the monsoon, and then you spent nearly all your time in the Crewroom, or getting soaked outside, or getting malaria.

Apart from that, most proper airfields then would have two or three runways, you took your pick (no interfering ATC - no ATC !) On the rough jungle strips you'd only one, of course (and in my case only one direction, too).

So you didn't worry about it, just threw the thing onto the ground. It might skitter about a bit, but as there was so much inertia in the huge beast, it usually ended up still pointing in the right direction. When it did "go walkabout", it did it in a big way, but as there were only bamboo, banana trees and the like to trample, usually no harm was done. Danny.

PS: Fareastdriver and ancientaviator,

"WHY don't I read all the Posts before I put pen to paper ! I've had many heart-stopping moments in Spits myself, but luckily never bent or splintered a blade....Yes, but even so the thing doesn't look as if it was moving when it tipped up, does it ?... Supplementary questions: what are the little group on the left looking at in such "wild surmise" ? And look at the legware on the chaps at the nose. Could they possibly be Naval ratings ?..D.

Chugalug,

Your #4801 refers, how nice to hear that justice prevailed: you left the Court without a Stain on your Character ! (doesn't often happen, does it ?). Now step forward, Sherlock, and tell us what must have happened to 491...Danny

Fareastdriver,

Fine body of men ! (and who is the laddie in front with the novel headgear ?). I note that there are no airman pilot trainees around (unless the ones in shirtsleeves), and that the Piston Provost looks a nice piece of machinery - I do like to see a nice, wide "straddle" U/cart - and the Cap SD on the prop !

Never had anything to do with 'em myself, but remember that Marshalls of Cambridge had them at Shawbury to fly as "clockwork mice" for the GCA School at Sleap.

blind pew,

Your: ......"One morning he took off without doing an outside check...around 1000ft AGL a wing fell off ..he described to me the effects of the controls before he hit the deck"......

Not the first time such a thing has happened: I recall reading some years ago an Accident Report on a Syndicate owned, light aircraft. Over a weekend the engineering genius of the group had removed the elevators for some purpose, but had not had time to put them back. On the Monday, another member turned up, pushed it out of the hangar, didn't check the paperwork or do a walk-round, jumped in, cranked-up, lined up and gave it welly......(I don't think it was fatal - not for him, anyway).

The Flying Flea; yes, it was an aerodynamic nasty that had been overlooked in the original design. And there are some people you just can't help. Years ago, when the Benson/Wallis Gyrocopter (how I would have loved to try that ) came out, a (Yorkshire ?) farmer with a bit of fixed-wing experience got one, and tried to loop it (at least that's what they told the Coroner).

Wg.Cdr. Wallis (RIP) himself told a good story: a local farmer approached him with the idea of buying one to do some light crop spraying (or something like it). Wallis asked him what flying experience he had. "Well, none, actually" was the reply, "but I suppose I could pick it up over a weekend"....

Truly, there's one born every minute.

Cheers, Danny.

Danny42C
14th Dec 2013, 18:36
Nutloose,

Re: EASA - it was ever thus ("That was Yesterday - It's All Been Changed") Yes, Danny finds it very interesting, says, and notes in italic:

"In that one second, the V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine would have gone through 60 revolutions",

(3,600 rpm - surely not ! every Spit and the few Hurricanes I ever flew, it was 3,000 max. Could they have "souped it up" to that extent ? Is it even possible ?) Come in, the Engine Fitters and Mechs !

...."with each of the 48 valves slamming open and closed 30 times"..... (25, as above)....."The twenty four spark plugs have fired 720 times".... (Yes, but not each one) ...... "as the exhaust gas is expelled from the cylinder with a velocity exceeding the speed of sound".... (which is why we've all been high-tone deaf for the rest of our lives - it is also the source of that "tearing" sound from a Merlin which has just gone past at full chat).

Poetic exuberance - but doesn't it just stir the heart ! Thanks again, Nutloose.

PS: ("Loctite", is the stuff you want - but you've heard that already, I suppose). Danny.

ancientaviator62,

It looks a heck of a rope ! - you could tie up the QE2 with that. We still haven't solved the problem: what was it doing to get like that ? The nose doesn't look damaged, the props aren't bent. Could they have braked heavily, the cargo broke loose and finished up on the Flight Deck ? (Chugalug, we have need of thee - what do you think may have happened here ? - and somebody must know).

VVs in a crosswind ?, most of the time there didn't seem much wind (except in the monsoon, and then you spent nearly all your time in the Crewroom, or getting soaked outside, or getting malaria.

Apart from that, most proper airfields then would have two or three runways, you took your pick (no interfering ATC - no ATC !) On the rough jungle strips you'd only one, of course (and in my case only one direction, too).

So you didn't worry about it, just threw the thing onto the ground. It might skitter about a bit, but as there was so much inertia in the huge beast, it usually ended up still pointing in the right direction. When it did "go walkabout", it did it in a big way, but as there were only bamboo, banana trees and the like to trample, usually no harm was done. Danny.

PS: Fareastdriver and ancientaviator,

"WHY don't I read all the Posts before I put pen to paper ! I've had many heart-stopping moments in Spits myself, but luckily never bent or splintered a blade....Yes, but even so the thing doesn't look as if it was moving when it tipped up, does it ?... Supplementary questions: what are the little group on the left looking at in such "wild surmise" ? And look at the legware on the chaps at the nose. Could they possibly be Naval ratings ?..D.

Chugalug,

Your #4801 refers, how nice to hear that justice prevailed: you left the Court without a Stain on your Character ! (doesn't often happen, does it ?). * Now step forward, Sherlock, and tell us what must have happened to 491...Danny

* EDIT: No, no, I don't mean that ! I just mean that Justice prevailed !...D.

Fareastdriver,

Fine body of men ! (and who is the laddie in front with the novel headgear ?). I note that there are no airman pilot trainees around (unless the ones in shirtsleeves), and that the Piston Provost looks a nice piece of machinery - I do like to see a nice, wide "straddle" U/cart - and the Cap SD on the prop !

Never had anything to do with 'em myself, but remember that Marshalls of Cambridge had them at Shawbury to fly as "clockwork mice" for the GCA School at Sleap.

blind pew,

Your: ......"One morning he took off without doing an outside check...around 1000ft AGL a wing fell off ..he described to me the effects of the controls before he hit the deck"......

Not the first time such a thing has happened: I recall reading some years ago an Accident Report on a Syndicate owned, light aircraft. Over a weekend the engineering genius of the group had removed the elevators for some purpose, but had not had time to put them back. On the Monday, another member turned up, pushed it out of the hangar, didn't check the paperwork or do a walk-round, jumped in, cranked-up, lined up and gave it welly......(I don't think it was fatal - not for him, anyway).

The Flying Flea; yes, it was an aerodynamic nasty that had been overlooked in the original design. And there are some people you just can't help. Years ago, when the Benson/Wallis Gyrocopter (how I would have loved to try that ) came out, a (Yorkshire ?) farmer with a bit of fixed-wing experience got one, and tried to loop it (at least that's what they told the Coroner).

Wg.Cdr. Wallis (RIP) himself told a good story: a local farmer approached him with the idea of buying one to do some light crop spraying (or something like it). Wallis asked him what flying experience he had. "Well, none, actually" was the reply, "but I suppose I could pick it up over a weekend"....

Truly, there's one born every minute.

Cheers, Danny.

Danny42C
14th Dec 2013, 20:03
On a sunny, but still chilly Spring day in '61, Mrs D. took Mary, in her pram, for a quiet walk away from the Quarters. She decided to venture a little further afield.

Now, at GK all the domestic and technical buildings, and the Apron and the Messes and MQs, were on the South side of the South taxiway. On the North of the runway was the North Taxiway, a narrow grass verge, and then a mile-long stretch of pinewoods.

There was never any reason for aircraft (or anything else) to go on the North taxiway. Indeed (as far as I could see) there was no good reason for there to be a North taxiway at all (but all the Clutch airfields were built to the same pattern, so probably they got one whether they needed one or not).

In fact there was good reason not to go on the North taxiway, for in the woods beside it there was something which made it advisable to keep out.

For in it were the bomb stores bunkers for the Great Deterrants, looked after and carefully guarded by our American friends, who of course had complete control of them. The bombs themselves (unfused, I presume - hope !) were harmless enough, but the same could not be said of the trigger-happy "snowdrops" and even less of their "wooly crocodiles".

The first mystery (for me) was how Mrs D. and the pram managed to get out there in the first place. Obviously she must have crossed the 27 runway (or the extended centreline of the runway) somewhere at the East end. Here I am hampered by the fact that the satellite maps only show the airfield as it is in recent years, when the runway has been extended to 10,000 ft for the GAF Boeing E.3As AWACS (I think we had 7,500 ft in our day, and the North taxiway has since been removed completely). And the extra 2,500 ft would have to go on the 27 end, for the 09 end is hard against the Dutch border.

Mrs D. is adamant that she did not go through any forest of Approach lights, and I'm driven to suspect that she may have got across the end of 27 between marshalling points. A young lady with a brilliant white pram crossing the end of the runway would (you might suppose) arouse some interest in the Local and Runway Controllers, but that seems not to have happened.

Be all that as it may, she ended up with the line of trees on her right, and a "large expanse of field" on her left. That's conclusive enough: she was either on the North Taxiway, or on some small path between it and the trees.

There were no aircraft in the circuit, and all was completely quiet. A Yorkshire country girl, the first thing she noticed was - no birds sang, although it was spring, and there was no rustling of any small creatures in the woods. And then she was assailed by a sense of unease.

There was something uncanny about this place: she did not like it at all. Trusting her instinct, she turned the pram round and walked home by the same route as she had come. She mentioned it when I came in that day, but I did not set any great store by it, except to remark that she was lucky not to have been seized by the "snowdrops"........... End of story ? (not much, really). .....Not quite. ...Listen to this:

bosnich71,..........RAF Wildenrath these days (photos) (page 1, #11):

"RAF Geilenkirchen was reputed to have an ex WW2 bunker in the woods which supposedly still contained bodies from the fighting in the area and had had earth bulldozed over it. By some accounts the Snoops dogs wouldn't go near the area."

Bit of a coincidence ? Makes you think ! (We never heard a whisper of that story in our 2½ years in GK or anywhere else until today).

Warmtoast, (your # 4794): A case for your exorcist ?

Goodnight, everybody,

Danny42C


Sleep well !

Chugalug2
14th Dec 2013, 20:11
Danny, you asked what happened to WD491. The answer is, I did, for as Warmtoast rightly implied his picture is of the aftermath of the arrival that I described. As to the hawser like looking rope, it is either the escape rope which has somehow expanded itself more by some trick of the light, or it may indeed be the strop, temporarily tucked into the pax doorway, which was eventually strung around the rear fuselage to lower it to the ground at the end of a crane. I don't know I'm afraid. All the engines were shock loaded when the props bit the dirt and were thus damaged beyond repair as was the entire aircraft, though the imminent arrival of the Hercules no doubt made the decision a bit of a no brainer.
Oh, your query as to why should the tail wheel be retractable as the aircraft didn't go fast enough to warrant it, that may well be. The point of a transport aircraft is to go far enough, and I would suggest to my Noble Friend that every such lump that could be so removed from the airflow would pay back dividends in that respect. At any rate she could outhaul and outrange a DC4!


aa62, I suspect that the words Siggie and Ciggie have got confused in the telling of the tale. The person who emerged clutching the Duty Free Ciggies was in fact the Co-Pilot, who being young and quick witted grabbed that which was most dear to him, being as he was a smoker.

smujsmith
14th Dec 2013, 22:08
Danny,

Goose bumps time, the story of your wife's meander, unseen possibly crossing runways. Of course, it would have been really weird had Bosnich related a tale of a rumour that the area was haunted by a woman pushing a pram in his input to the thread. That would have made you chuckle I suspect. Your post also highlights something of a service that no longer seems to exist, from friends still serving I'm told that even with proper ID they sometimes struggle to get on Base, let alone the airfield. How things change.

Smudge:ok:

BEagle
14th Dec 2013, 22:49
Your post also highlights something of a service that no longer seems to exist

Regarding 'control of access', in 1969 it would have been possible for anyone to leave the main road and drive into RAFC Cranwell without passing any security posts or barriers....

Fortunately there wasn't such a terrorist threat back then.

DHfan
14th Dec 2013, 23:24
Danny
Not an engine fitter or mechanic, except when attached to the pointed end of my own car, but 3,000 rpm was what I was told by a sadly now departed ex-R.A.F. engine fitter some years ago, he thought possibly slightly more in emergencies.

It would seem the Reno racers have left the standard Merlin far behind. A quick Google suggests 3,600 rpm and more, astronomical boost pressures and power outputs approaching 4,000 hp.

Danny42C
15th Dec 2013, 00:06
Chugalug,

Cat 5 - that seems rather hard ! It doesn't sound right to scrap an aircraft when a 4-engine change and a new wheel were all that was needed to get it back in the air.

Surely the RAF were awash with low-hours Hercules from the old Halifax fleets (just as they had more Merlins than they knew what to do with it, hence - so the story ran - the advent of the Athena and Balliol).

Just so I understand it, 491 would hold this pose even if the nose were free (but if the tail were lowered - or blew down - just a bit, it would go over TDC and flop down ? Have I got it right ?

I assume you were a non-smoker at the time - otherwise you'd have exercised your power of command over your second dickey, thanked him for the cigs, and let him have a packet for being a good boy and saving them for you !

Still wondering about that curious little crowd gazing so fixedly at the tail. What could they be looking at. And how about the "gaiters" at the nose ?

As for the retracting tailwheel, I'm not convinced. It could only save a minute amount of drag: I can't see it making any significant difference in speed or range. The Spitfire and Hurricane got along fine with a fixed wheel, when there was every effort being made to screw another knot out of them.

Conversely there was a retractable tailwheel in the Vengeance, which of all aircraft absolutely didn't need it - it was a useless, possible source of trouble.

Goodnight, Danny.

Danny42C
15th Dec 2013, 00:15
DHfan,

Yes, I suppose it is so. Then again the Merlin had to keep up the power for hours on end, whereas the ideal racing macine (car or aircraft) wins the race - and then collapses in a pile of scrap !

Danny'

ancientaviator62
15th Dec 2013, 07:59
Ah yes 'ciggie' and Siggie, makes perfect sense. I had always assumed that it was the escape rope hanging down in the pic and as chugalug says it did not reach the ground. I think the chaps at the front of the a/c are the fire crew wearing their protective boots, or they may be the wreck and recovery team who were also issued with similar boots. Not RN ! I think from a previous post the a/c was empty so no shifting of cargo etc. Just the natural tendency of a taildragger to nose over at the slightest opportunity.
Chugalug's mention of the imminent arrival in service of the Herc was the reason many a Hastings was retired early. As I recall we were having autopilot and other problems as well.
Did my last Hastings trip on Dec. 22 1967 in 343 from Luqa via Abingdon to Colerne. Started the Herc course in the new year.

BEagle
15th Dec 2013, 08:17
Sometime in the early/mid-1960s, a long time after the RN had returned to Yeovilton and even longer after the RAF had handed it over to the RN in the first place, the aerodrome was virtually abandoned. A handful of RAF personnel looked after the DF station, but that was all. Anyone and everyone could drive up and down the runways.

So it was rather surprising one day, long before the RN reactivated the place, to see a Hastings land. I remember cycling over to watch it subsequently depart from the westerly runway, but wonder to this day what it had been doing there.

Perhaps delivering the new, automatic DF installation - part of the D&D autotriangulation fixer system?

Hummingfrog
15th Dec 2013, 09:13
My father learnt to fly at 1 BFTS at Terrell Texas. They have a small museum dedicated to those interesting times:-

Home - No. 1 British Flying Training School Museum - Fly-In (http://www.bftsmuseum.org/home.php)

Dad is still going strong at 92 and still recounts the day that he was flying on a cross country training flight where 3 a/c crashed on route - killing 6 cadets:{ Apparently poor weather had set in (unforecast) across the hills spanning the route to the airfield where the students were going to swap seats for the flight back to Terrell. Luckily for Dad the valley he ended up going down wasn't a dead end!

HF

Chugalug2
15th Dec 2013, 09:49
Danny, yes she would have wanted to return to her natural pose, ie sitting on her tail, the mainwheels being slightly forward of the CofG. The airframe didn't come out of it totally unscathed as this picture shows:-

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x199/chugalug2/Drumbeat05_zps19c0f79b.jpg

Fareastdriver
15th Dec 2013, 09:57
Surely the RAF were awash with low-hours Hercules from the old Halifax fleets

A different Mark of Hercules and also their availability.

At the end of the war in Europe one of my fathers jobs was ferrying brand new Halifaxs from the factory to Edzell, in Scotland, which was a Stirling and Halifax disposal unit, to be scrapped. This experience was useful at a later date.

In 1947 he was posted to 202 (Met) Sqn, which with 224 in were the only two Halifax Squadrons left in the RAF. Spares, any spares, was a nightmare. To overcome this he would load a Halifax up with assorted fitters, fly to Dyce, near Aberdeen and take a day off whilst his fitters went down to Edzell and robbed all the hulks still lying about.

The Halifaxs were replaced by Hastings in 1951. A few trundled around in either civvy guise or in Sunny Air Forces for a year or so but apart from a few recovered wrecks there is nothing left.

Danny. That hat in the foreground is of the Royal Malayasian Air Force. When the course started we had; 4 Direct Entry Pilots, 2 remustering Engineering Officers, 1 remustering Sergeant Signaller, 1 retreading ex National Service pilot, 2 Lebanese Air Force, 2 Iraqi Air Force, 2 Jordanion Air Force, 4 RMAF and 'B' Flight consisted of the 13 Ghanian Air Force, their nation's entire strength.
Time took its toll and at the end when the photo was taken we were the survivors of 'A' Flight. 'B' flight returned to Ghana and years later when Nkrumah was overthrown the rumour went around that they were lined up on a beach and shot.

In those days with a large number of second world countries coming into existence and forming their own air forces the RAF had a nice little earner training their personnel.

smujsmith
15th Dec 2013, 18:05
Hummingfrog, perhaps your father could join Danny in keeping alive the "original" intent of this most glorious thread, and pass his experiences on to the many, who hang on the words of the few. I'm sure all would welcome a "new boy", especially one with such credentials. Perhaps you could help with posts etc ?, if necessary, most of these guys are more savvy than us "semi youngsters".

Smudge :ok:

Danny42C
15th Dec 2013, 18:12
Fareastdriver,

Ref your:

"In those days with a large number of second world countries coming into existence and forming their own air forces the RAF had a nice little earner training their personnel"

At Strubby sometime in '55 - '58, we were earning an honest penny in this way, but the A.M. had a mental aberration (not all that unusual in those days). They programmed two such AFS Courses to run concurrently - one Israeli and the other Iraki IIRC ! (may have been Syrian, but they'd be more likely to go to France, I suppose).

Even though no live firing was part of the Courses, we deemed the risk too great and put the stoppers on it .

D.

ancientaviator62
16th Dec 2013, 07:50
I seem to recall that when I was at Yatesbury on my fitter's course we had several nationalities under training. The Iranian uniforms were especially colourful. Most of this type of training of groundcrew and aircrew, ceased when they countries involved were asked to bear the full (MOD arithmetic !) costs, as there had been a degree of subsidy before. I always thought this to be short sighted as today's trainee could well be tomorrow's senior officer.

goofer3
16th Dec 2013, 12:19
From UK Serial losses 1967;

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/goofer33/HastingsWD4912.jpg?t=1387113292

camlobe
16th Dec 2013, 12:49
After our welcoming bull night, we band of merry men and boys settled into our home for nine months. RAF Halton is nestled on on one side of a hill-line and in the flat land below. The hill line is where the accommodation blocks were placed for the trainees, and on the flat land there was the technical training school and airfield. We wouldn't see the airfield until the final part of our course, but we saw a great deal of the 'school' which consisted of 'sheds' and classrooms. The sheds were where the practical aspects of our technical training was carried out. Thy first task IIRC was to start our snowballing collection of reference and reading material, including the most excellent book "The Jet Engine" which I seem to think was a Rolls Royce publication. The course brief was detailed enough for us to plan what to expect. Continual education and assessment. Failure (a dirty word nowadays but a normal part of life in the late '70's) was awaiting anyone who could not absorb and apply their newfound knowledge at each and every assessment. The assessments were mini-exams, but our attitude and aptitude was also continually reviewed.

The initial brief was founded around the fact that the aircraft of the Royal Air Force were the best maintained and operated in the world, bar none. This would continue to be the case, with or without us. If we failed in any way to come up to scratch, we were out. No ifs or buts. The integrity of the RAF's varied types of aircraft were not to be subjected to any input less than perfection. And to see if we could meet the standards required, we were to be subjected to the most rigorous aviation technical training environment in existence.

And we most certainly were.

But it wasn't just us on course APD21 (Aircraft Propulsion, Direct entry #21). There was a full complement of apprentices; trainee Flight Line Mechanics (FLM's); trainee Airframe, Engine and Armament mechanics. Then there were experienced mechanics who had returned to Halton to undergo Fitter training in order to progress from Senior Aircraftman to Junior Technican.

And then, as mentioned by a number of our crew room companions, there was the international aspect. There were men from just about every African country. Also, from the majority of the Arabic nations. Added to this list, there were Malaysians and sub-continental participants. Our parade ground every morning was a very multinational affair.

On one of our first mornings marching down the hill towards the sheds, one of the SAC's said to me "see that guy there in the PT shorts and Tee shirt? He flew a Lightning". Oh, says I naively, is he a pilot? "No, no, that is Wing Commander 'Taffy' Holden. He was the SENGO at Binbrook. They had a long-going snag with a Lightning, he climbed in to do the next ground run. They had the seat out and a box in its place, the canopy off, and wires running outside from the cockpit to the engine. He powered it up, ran over the chocks, pulled back to miss a truck, and flew it round for ten minutes trying to get it back down. He managed it in the end." I was chuckling, not going to get caught by this leg-pull, only to find out ten minutes later from a bunch of the SAC's who had been at Binbrook at the time that it was completely true. Awestruck admiration replaced disbelief.

The true whole story is freely available in Taffy's own words, and can be googled. There wasn't a box, but an inert seat. Just as useful, really.

At that time, Halton also had a hospital. This meant PMRAFNS nurses. Actually, lots of nurses. Bop nights in the NAAFI were always well attended.

I was really getting to like the RAF, and was now happily forgiving its earlier misdemeanour.

Camlobe

What goes up, keeps going up if it is a Lightning.

Geriaviator
16th Dec 2013, 13:59
Just so I understand it, 491 would hold this pose even if the nose were free (but if the tail were lowered - or blew down - just a bit, it would go over TDC and flop down ? Have I got it right ?Of course you're right, as usual, Danny. My ARB surveyor C. H. Taylor mentioned earlier told me that at war's end the country was awash with aircraft. Tiger Moths could not be left outside but if lifted into the inelegant pose of 491 they could be packed along hangars like a giant toastrack, whence they went for £50 each or as gifts to help rebuild European air forces (my NL896 went to France). Mr. Taylor said some MUs left ropes dangling from the tailskids so the Tigers could be easily retrieved.

And that's why the chins of most TMs I encountered display faint scars or dents on the inside. Of course most are now highly restored with new cowlings as the old ones display fatigue cracking after 60+ yrs of vibration :ouch:

Fareastdriver
16th Dec 2013, 16:16
packed along hangars like a giant toastrack

The SAAF used to have a stack of Harvards packed that way.

ricardian
16th Dec 2013, 18:30
In the late 1950s/early 1960s Halton had a lot of Venezualan apprentices.

Danny42C
16th Dec 2013, 18:47
Camlobe,

What a mountain you had to climb ! No wonder my groundcrew always knew so much more about the thing I was flying than I did myself !

The "Taffy" Holden story was a surprise. The story that went round the RAF some time in '62 -' 64 had it happening in Lyneham - indeed the tale of the "Lyneham Lightning" was legendary. Could there have been a second case at Binbrook ? (we have plenty of Lightning drivers on strength who can tell us).

They managed to keep the story out of the papers somehow. It arrived in the Instructors' Common Room in Shawbury on a Monday morning (having supposedly happened on the previous Saturday). We rang Lyneham ATC, but they were very cagey - we could get nothing out if them.

It did appear in the Press, but years later, when the trail had gone cold.

D.

Hummingfrog
16th Dec 2013, 19:33
smujsmith

I will have a chat to him - I know a lot of the details but will try to get more detail in a chronological order!

HF

smujsmith
16th Dec 2013, 20:15
Camlobe/ Danny,

Taff Holden's flight in the lightning indeed happened at RAF Lyneham, I believe that it was the MU for the Lightning at that time. It's well covered in other threads on PPRUNE and should be easy enough to find. Despite rumours, the man was actually a trained aviator, and handled it as one would expect:rolleyes:


Edit, here's some info I came across.

It happened on July 22nd 1966 while XM135 was at 33 MU at Lyneham. The aircraft had a persistant electrical problem that only showed itself under aceleration. So Wg Cdr Walter "Taff" Holden decided to undertake some ground tests to see if he could find the problem. The canopy was removed and the ground locks were in place Taff had a set of pilots notes with him in the cockpit he was strapped in but the safty pins were in. A couple of short bursts down the run way showed nothing so taff decided to give it a bit more speed. As he opened the throttels he accidentally pushed them through the gate into reheat. At first he thought the trottles had jammed but by the time he figured out what was happeneing he was out of runway and was left with only one choice to take XM135 for a quick spin round the airfield. This wouldnt be too much of a problem except that Taff had only done a few hours on a tiger moth. He couldnt call the tower as he only had on ear defenders and he couldnt eject as the seat was safe. After a couple of failed attempts after 12 minutes he landed.

Not too sure if he held an RAF pilots brevet! but I think he was OC eng on the unit at the time. I also believe that XM135 now resides at Duxford as an exhibit. Hope that helps.

Smudge :ok:

Danny42C
16th Dec 2013, 22:25
The major event in '61 came in the late summer. Thirteen years before Stalin had angrily reacted to the introduction of the Deutschmark in West Germany by blockading West Berlin on the assumption that the NATO powers would be unable to sustain their zones in it by air; our sector would fall into his hands like a rotten apple.

By a strange arrangement that I do not fully understand, it seems that he had been allowed to keep administrative control of the road and rail corridors into W.Berlin, which made it easy for him to throttle movement without our being able to resist effectively. But air access was another matter, that freedom was enshrined in the Potsdam Agreemeent (?): any attempt to choke that off could be a casus belli. We all know the result. His original assumption proved incorrect, we did keep our zone alive with the Airlift; after a year he admitted defeat and lifted the blockade.

So matters stood in mid-August '61, when the good people of Berlin awoke to find a wall arising rapidly, just inside the E/W zone boundary, cutting the city in half. It was to stand for 30 years. This was an ominous development: what next ? Of course we all knew why this was being done. Ostensibly a defensive measure against the supposedly aggressive intentions of the NATO powers, the plain fact was that the younger and more productive sector of the East German working population were "voting with their feet", and getting out to the West while they still could, with the result that all that would soon be left in E. Germany would be children and pensioners. The Wall was to keep the E. Germans in , not to keep us out .

But apart from that, it seemed quite possible that this might herald a second Blockade of the city. Undeterred by their earlier experience, Kruschev might attempt to succeed where Stalin had failed. A second Airlift might have to be mounted.

If that happened, the British effort would depend, as before, on the capacity of RAF Gatow to handle all the incoming fuel, goods and food. In '48-'49 its only approach aid had been an MPN-1 GCA; after it was all over they left it there, as it was more than adequate to handle the small volume of civil and RAF Communications flights still operating. Now it looked as if the 13 year veteran might grow very busy again very soon. I think that a two-watch ATC system was running: this would have to be at least doubled-up, to allow round-the-clock operation.

The ATC Controllers with recent MPN-1 experience were quickly earmarked, and detached in turn for two-weeks each to Gatow. I was one of the early ones. Now there seemed no reason why we should not go by train to (say) RAF Wunsdorf and be flown in to Gatow. But we were instructed to make the whole journey by road, and travel in uniform. All I can imagine is that that would test the Russian road semi-blockade (to see how far they were prepared to go). Delaying or messing-about a W.German civilian car or truck was one thing - obstructing a NATO officer on duty in uniform quite another. (But all this is guesswork).

And it was inconvenient, to say the least. Your wife would be without transport for the whole fortnight: you didn't need the car in Berlin. But that was the way it had to be done. It must have been at the end of August that I packed a fortnight's kit into the car and set out for Helmstedt - the Western end of the British road corridor.

And as the description of the transit to Berlin, and the rest of the story in Gatow, will take up another thousand words at least, I shall call it a night now, and put the rest in my next Post.

Goodnight, all.

Danny42C.


It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive.

camlobe
16th Dec 2013, 23:21
Danny & Smudge,
Thanks for the corrections. My only defense is my earlier referral to my failing memory (far, far to early in my opinion). Danny, while I have no doubt your ground crew were exceptionally knowledgeable, I would be lucky to walk in their shadow.

Fareastdriver,
Although I have seen a number of pictures of TM's parked rather nasely as described, I haven't seen any pics of Harvard's treated the same. Anyone got a snap?

I believe the SAAF were the last military arm using the Harvard, or are they still using them now?

There is an interesting clip or two on YouTube showing Harvard's doing the old crop duster trick of skimming across a lake. However, these clips have five Harvard's doing it in formation. Very impressive flying.

ricardian,
During my 'visit', there was one chap in army uniform undergoing training. I believe he was doing the RAF Apprentice course i.e. Airframes and engines. When I first saw him, he was a Corporal. By the time I left, he was a Warrant Officer. I was told, every time he passed another phase of the course, he was promoted, and that he would be the Command Engineering Officer for his country's embryonic Air Force. Unfortunately, I cannot remember which country he was from.

Camlobe

DHfan
17th Dec 2013, 02:19
There's a thread on the FlyPast forum about Wg. Cdr. Holden's flight including the story in his own words.

Lightning XM135, inadvertant flight by W/Cdr Holden (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?20807-Lightning-XM135-inadvertant-flight-by-W-Cdr-Holden/)

Pom Pax
17th Dec 2013, 07:46
I remember seeing my first night landings. Dakotas landing on 23 at Waterbeach, each aircraft on finals would switch on a single powerful light which seemed to be angled more downwards than forwards, or so it seemed to a 10 year old.

Now does anyone know what the cargo would have been? Given Waterbeach's location fresh produce, meat or even fish seem to be likely choices.

Also would the aircraft have been flying direct to Berlin? Payload / mtw wise is would seem to be more efficient to have refuelled in Northern Germany or to even tranship the cargo.

Danny42C
17th Dec 2013, 19:28
Pom Pax,

I'm no expert on the Airlift, but I'd think that they would have to land at one of the "feeder" airfields for the last leg (Celle, Faßberg,Wunsdorf ?) to refuel.
Otherwise they'd have to refuel at Gatow for the return trip, and we were supposed to be flying fuel into Berlin !

I have read that the RAF's speciality was hauling coal in Yorks (don't know if it was true). Many people here have airlift memories.

Danny.

Chugalug2
17th Dec 2013, 21:47
Hastings as well, Danny. I understand that when the floors were lifted (possibly during rebuild from Mk1 to Mk1A's, to make them compatible with later Mk2's), coal and coal dust was found in most of them.
Re the airlift most of the RAF effort was, as you say, a rotation between forward West German a/f's and West Berlin ones, refuelling and reloading in West Germany. Nonetheless fresh a/c o/b from the UK would sensibly be positioned fully loaded to make full use of their capacity. One thread here:-
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/373658-berlin-airlift-video.html

Danny42C
17th Dec 2013, 22:05
Chugalug,

Of course, your "Queen of the Skies", too ! Coal dust is very invasive stuff: I don't think we ever got it all out of the pram after its first fateful ride in RAF M.T.

Thanks for the link. Will have a look now,

Cheers, Danny.

ancientaviator62
18th Dec 2013, 07:14
My son in law's now deceased father was a F/E on the Avro York during the Berlin Airlift. He was convinced that the reason the USSR miscalculated the allied ability to resupply Berlin was based on the German failure to resupply the Sixth Army at Stalingrad. As he said he would not want to have been the senior officer who assured Stalin that an allied airlift could not succed !

camlobe
18th Dec 2013, 09:03
I remember a number of years ago reading an account by a participant of the Berlin Airlift. One particular incident stands out that I feel sure we all can relate to due to our varied experiences in Light Blue. Hopefully, one of those involved can post the true and accurate details here, as I am sure to have unwittingly made mistakes somewhere.

During the height of the Berlin Airlift, the well-oiled machine of organisation methodically and consistently loaded the various aircraft types with loads pre-prepared. Often they were a mix of cargo's, from liquid fuel through coal and sugar, and included each and every item needed by the population of Berlin to remain warm, fed and civilised.

One Dakota crew, experienced in this continual aerial lifeline, arrived at their aircraft, signed the required paperwork (as Danny says, it was forever thus), started up and taxied. Nothing amiss. Until the take off roll. This particular evening, the trusty old Dak was sluggish. The crew exchanged glances, looked out the windows for flat tyres, shrugged and continued. At some point, late in the take off run, they realised there was something seriously wrong, as the aircraft would not accelerate. Past the point of safe stopping, they decided the only course of action was to attempt to continue. Due to the length of runway in use, and the helpful curvature of the Earth, the Dak finally had air beneath her wheels...but only just. A much flatter climb profile than normal ensued, not through choice. Unable to climb to her normal cruising height, the crew continued rather nervously while checking everything imaginable on the aircraft for the cause of their peril. No huge panels were noted to be causing enormous drag, and no other aircraft issues were identified. But the poor engines were running continually at climb power, just to remain airborne. Our intrepid crew made it (to Gatow ?), landing speed 30 knots faster than normal to prevent falling out of the skies on Finals, and deplaned as nervous wrecks. The Captain insisted on the load being weighed as it was removed. The handlers were baffled why anyone would want their load weighed AFTER landing, but grumpily complied. The Dak, DC3, C47 etc had a load capability of around 3 tons. When this particular load was weighed, it was realised that the aircraft had inadvertently been filled with a load for a York, apparently around 9 tons.

Wonder if this is a world record for a Dak?

Camlobe

Has anyone ever met the man behind Murphy's Law?

ancientaviator62
18th Dec 2013, 09:29
Did not Ernest K Gann describe something similar in 'Fate is the Hunter' ?

Chugalug2
18th Dec 2013, 10:03
Indeed, aa62. I think that in his case the something similar that he described was the dreaded shift change, so that he was carrying twice what he should have been. That he survived to tell the story, like camlobe's crew, is a tribute to the margins that could be called upon in extremis in that generation of aircraft.
Not so much in the way of margins these days, more like knife edges!

ricardian
18th Dec 2013, 10:58
Chugalug2 said Hastings as well, Danny. I understand that when the floors were lifted (possibly during rebuild from Mk1 to Mk1A's, to make them compatible with later Mk2's), coal and coal dust was found in most of them.
Hastings were based at Akrotiri in the mid 1960s (70 Sqn?). The airframe chaps in the Cpls Club often spoke of the coal dust hazard under the floors.

Geriaviator
18th Dec 2013, 17:01
When we returned from Aden in Feb 1953 I was placed at the back beside the loadmaster. In those days pax were weighed the day before and heavy people were seated around the CG, youngsters like me went aft.

Once airborne I noticed a gap of an inch or more around the battered doors. The loadmaster told me it was hard wear from the Berlin Airlift. The refreshing breeze was very nice across Somalia but long before we reached Lyneham my legs were numb. And that was before the overnight at Clyffe Pypard, the nearby transit camp. :suspect:

Danny42C
18th Dec 2013, 17:08
All down the years I've had it in my head that the road corridor (Helmstedt to Marienborn - Funny, always thought it was Marienfeld) to Berlin was about 60 miles. Turns out it's not. Google gives 110 miles, and the distance across from GK to Helmstedt another 270. Totals 380, a good day's driving - I must have got on the road early that morning. Across W.Germany a lot of it would be autobahn, but not all. I don't remember much about the first part of the trip, but must have reached Helmstedt (Checkpoint "Alpha", it seems) in early afternoon. It wasn't just a simple matter of going on.

You needed a thorough briefing before embarking on the last stage of your journey, for the Russian regulations were strictly enforced. Stops were not permitted: if you broke down you had to stay with your car until the (E.German) police picked you up. You could start only when you got clearance, one vehicle every five minutes. It was believed that the police phoned your departure time through to the other end as you left.

You must drive at a steady 100 kph (63 mph). If you turned up early, I suppose they would have you for speeding. If late, you were suspected of the worst crime of all - stopping to pick up an E.German thumbing a lift at the roadside (I don't think it was wired off at all). For if you could get him into West Berlin (in your car boot ?), he was as good as out to the West.

I saw no petrol stations, but naturally you'd tanked up with (coupon) petrol in Helmstedt. The briefing was delivered by the military police, who'd saved the best for the last. This was a gallery of photographs of the autobahn junctions you'd meet as you neared Berlin. Take a wrong turning, and you might end up, not in Marienborn, but in clink as an illegal entrant at another point; it might take quite some time to get you out. Naturally no bomber pilot or nav ever scrutinised target photos longer or more carefully than we did.

There was a lot of paperwork, travel orders, car registration and identity documents examined, and at last you got the green light. Two hundred yards along on the verge a Russian tank was parked, gun barrel trained on the Checkpoint. These people meant business (We are the masters now !)

The memory of the next 1½ hours will be with me for life. Never have I made such a lonely and nerve-wracking drive. The 5 min separation meant that the nearest vehicle would be roughly 5 miles ahead or astern, well out of sight. I rolled along, keeping exactly to the 63mph, listening to the thump - thump of the concrete joints (we had no car radio).

Every fifteen minutes or so, an E.German police car would come racing up from behind, stay beside me for a half minute (it felt like an eternity) while the boot-faced passenger, notebook and pencil in hand, examined me and the car minutely from end to end, then without any sign or wave of acknowledgement steam away off ahead to, presumably, overhaul the next man and give him the same treatment.

What I could see of the flat landscape was rather depressing. There was little farming activity going on; I noted that in the wide fields at the roadside horses were still being used extensively in place of tractors. At our briefing we had been told to commit to memory details of any Russian military vehicle convoys we saw on the journey (but never to make notes) and report them to our military police when we reached Berlin. But I saw nothing of the kind on my transit.

At last the first of the potential traps appeared; the photographs at Helmstedt served their purpose admirably. I stayed on the right path throughout, and soon saw a long queue of vehicles stationary on the carriageway ahead, obviously awaiting inward clearance. With the true British instinct not to "queue-jump", I slowed down to meekly take my place on the end. But out stepped an E. German police officer from the roadside, vigorously signalling me to carry-on past the others, which I now saw to be all German civilian-registered cars and trucks.

I was being given priority, it seemed. I could almost feel the resentment of the unfortunates (who would be subject to long delays), but they would have been most unwise to show or voice it. For supervising the road police was a Russian officer at the head of the column: a W.German did not bandy words with him , or he (the civilian) would probably be out of circulation for quite a long time.

I was at Marienborn (aka Checkpoint "Bravo"). The formalities were remarkably light. "Nothing untoward seen", I told the RMP Sergeant. He wasn't interested in my "harassment" on the road: it was SOP, he said.

Finding Gatow was easy, I was in good time for dinner and an early night.

Now Gatow/Berlin will have to wait till next time.

Cheerio,

Danny42C.


"Will you walk into my parlour", said the Spider to the Fly.

ancientaviator62
18th Dec 2013, 19:01
Gerivator,
we used to have regular sessions changing para doors between our Hastings in the hope of stumbling on a better fit. Hope over expectation.
On para drops when the doors were removed ready for despatch they were supposed to be stowed in the toilets. Fitting problems and time constraints meant they were just dumped on the floor aft. This would not improve the chances of them fitting any better.

johnfairr
18th Dec 2013, 19:03
Late 1973 I was posted to #1 AD (Air Defence) Course on the F-4 Phantom. Part of the lead-in was for the six navigators to do a bit of radar prediction from topo charts, prior to a trip in an NBS equipped Hastings. Once airborne we took it in turns to overlay our acetate sheets with what we expected to see on the flickering display.

Three of us at a time for a four hour sortie, each one doing about an hours worth of jiggling the gain control and trying to find out where the hell we were. Naturally, as the junior nav I was last to have a go - in theory - as it always went u/s long before my turn.

The Hastings was from 1066 Sqn and picked us up from Waddington, even though we were based at Coningsby/Finningley. As we were exiting from the aircraft after another DNCO, I noticed a metal plate above the steps which read something like "This is a/c no xxxx. When it is time expired do not use for fire practice, as it took part in the Berlin Airlift. Preserve for posterity"

If I wasn't lazy I'd dig out my logbook and give the exact serial. Maybe later, it's been a long day . . . :\:\

Dave Wilson
18th Dec 2013, 19:28
Just had to dig out my photo of #1 AD course. 12 hopeful looking youngsters there!

Warmtoast
18th Dec 2013, 22:21
Ancientaviator62

On para drops when the doors were removed ready for despatch they were supposed to be stowed in the toilets. Fitting problems and time constraints meant they were just dumped on the floor aft. This would not improve the chances of them fitting any better.

When I was at Abingdon in 1959 Hastings took-off and landed with the para door removed when doing drops at nearby Weston-on-the-Green. See below.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/AbingdonHastingsLanding-Straightened_1280x794.jpg

Fareastdriver
19th Dec 2013, 07:16
They don't make mainwheels like that anymore.

johnfairr
19th Dec 2013, 09:25
DW

Front row, second right

;);)

ancientaviator62
19th Dec 2013, 11:41
Warmtoast,
I have commented on your pic on another thread. But just to recap when doing multiple lifts at PTS (Abingdon) we never replaced the para doors in flight. Given their willingness to leave the a/c we only replaced them in flight whenever absolutely necessary. Now has anyone a pic of the Hastings rigged for the airdrop known as 'Roller Conveyor'. This was done with the cargo door removed ! Interesting times.

Dave Wilson
19th Dec 2013, 12:02
DW

Front row, second right

What a handsome chap!

johnfairr
19th Dec 2013, 13:02
You should see me now . . . . . :}:}

Danny42C
19th Dec 2013, 13:20
Before leaving the two glorious pictures of Chugalug's Magnum Opus (#4787 p.240 & #4816 p.241), it occurs to me that we've not yet exhausted the possibilities. First, perhaps he will confirm that a giant blow-up of #4787, suitably framed, has pride of place over the Adam fireplace in Chugalug Hall - and if not, why not ? (Limited Edition of framed prints shortly to be available).

Secondly, what an entry for a Caption Competition ! (Gulfstreamaviator set the ball rolling in #4788 with the current front-runner):

"I am sure....don't want to be nosey"

For starters, I'll give you:

"You see, Boss, it was like this..."........"They lied - Gravity sometimes does let up !"......." Damn' Moles !"......"What did you do in the Cold War, Daddy ?"

No judging - all shall have prizes !

(Sorry Chugalug, but it is Christmas and it's all Warmtoast's fault, anyway - he put it in).

Cheers, everybody. Danny.

BEagle
19th Dec 2013, 13:27
A few years ago, a colleague and I were working at Airbus Bremen. We then had to attend a meeting at Elbeflugzeugwerke at Dresden airport the following day. "No problem", I thought and looked at the Lufthansa timetable.

But my colleague had other ideas and elected to drive. 480 km across Germany in mid-Jan with some pretty serious snow around didn't seem like the world's best plan to me, but off we chugged in a VW Touran....

At Helmstedt, we came across the old Checkpoint Alpha. Now just run down, sprayed with graffiti and looking desolate. As was the little of the landscape we could see which wasn't covered in snow.

Despite having been a navigator, my colleague didn't have much of a clue about where we were and the map he had wasn't much use. But I'd just bought myself a nice new toy on my way through Birmingham airport, a Garmin SatNav. Which found our hotel without any snags some 5 hours or so after leaving Bremen. Despite all the rebuilding, much of eastern Germany was still rather ugly and run down in a Funeral in Berlin kind of way, but the hotel was fine. As was the rather 'ethnic' Köhlerhütte pub nearby, where a pot of Schwabentopf mit Käsespätzle each and a few Dunkelbiers soon brightened things up!

After the meeting I went back to the UK. But I dug my heels in and flew back from Dresden to Birmingham via Munich. Whereas I subsequently learned that my navigator colleague in the Touran, scornful of my SatNav, took the wrong Autobahn turning at Halle and then tried to navigate cross-country through snowy lanes back to the A2. It took him hours - because sign posts were still rather sparse away from main roads and his map was all but useless.....

Rule 1 - Never let the navigator drive!
Rule 2 - If compliance with Rule 1 isn't possible, make sure you've got a SatNav!

Geriaviator
19th Dec 2013, 15:41
Re Danny's caption contest, and with acknowledgments to Hargreaves the great aviation cartoonist:
"That wasn't what I meant when I told you to keep your tail up, Hoskins".

Pom Pax
19th Dec 2013, 16:26
Firstly BEagle I find your rules rather offensive. I always know where I have come from, mostly I know where I am, likewise I know where I am going and generally know how to get there.

Danny, I suspect a number of the rules applied for your trip were for your own safety and secondly to cause inconvenience to Herr Ulbrich and his minions. In uniform you were official and could not be classified a spy. Five minute spacing to cause maximum inconvenience. Was 100 kph their rule? A Wartburg could not catch up if you went any faster. They probably lay hidden like today's traffic police, a 1 mile tail chase is easier than trying to catch another car with 5 minutes start.

Anyway my story arrive Helmstedt, big sign and arrow "All Military Traffic" points to a large building. So that's where you all went. Can't remember if there was a West German out control. Continuing forward through a longish zigzag to a very substantial barrier, have to turn right into a parking lot. Park up and motioned into a long hut. Given a long form to fill in, realise this is for a transit visa, no we want a proper entry visa not transit. A conference behind the counter and searching of papers on desks, "We have no visas for you". Produce letter of invitation, another conference followed by telephone calls. "Your visas are in Berlin, please complete this form." Complete transit visa form. "Many Deutch marks please and fill in this form". But this for insurance, "I already have insurance", show green card. "No this insurance is for the DDR, you are not entering the DDR, this is for transit insurance." Give up and hand over more DM. Given back passports and transit visa and told this visa is only valid for x? hours you must complete your journey in this time. Complete the journey having cruised at about 85 mph, big queue to exit the DDR due to every vehicle being thoroughly searched for refugees. Decide we driven enough for 1 day (from Bracknell virtually non stop) and there will more entertainment and comfort in the West Berlin.
Next morning proceed to Check Point Charlie, greeted by a saluting American MP, "Are you sure you want to go in there?" "Yes". Waved on under the barrier to be directed into another parking lot with a smaller long hut. Present passports, a quick glance and "Ah Mr xxx and Mr xyy we were expecting you yesterday"!!!!!!!!!
There much more but its even more off topic.

Warmtoast
19th Dec 2013, 21:22
Danny42

but it is Christmas and it's all Warmtoast's fault, anyway - he put it in

As it's all my fault I think that makes me eligible to enter the caption competition, so here's my contribution:

"I told you I'd be dropping in for Christmas!"

pzu
20th Dec 2013, 00:28
SAAF WWII Veterans interviews

I've plugged a number of Tinus le Roux's interviews previously, but he's now set up a new web site to consolidate his work

SAAF WW2 Pilots, Spitfire SAAF (http://biltongbru.wix.com/ww2-saaf-heritage)

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

Educated Armourer
20th Dec 2013, 09:53
It has taken me months to work my way through the 243 pages that are currently here and I have been fascinated much of the time. I tend to only look at PPrune at work and therefore, lunchtimes etc but well worth the effort. I have read many posts that have left me in awe and I feel under qualified to add – but add I will.

The tales of the slightly more recent basic training struck so many chords, though after Swinderby in the very early 80s I went to Cosford rather than Halton as that is where the cream of trades, the Armourers had recently moved, leaving the ancillary trades down south for a few more years (without the armourers all you would have would be a glorified flying club etc). While at Swinderby I saw racism and some bullying, but mostly I saw instructors that were very good at their job and turned us raw civvies into what we had to be to become cold war warriors. Almost 20 years later, in the very late 90s I was subjected to IOT and the SNCOs were very similar in attitude, but more politically correct than the ones that I had first met all that time ago. Again, excellent at their job. It was the flight commanders that I thought varied more as for some it seemed to be a punishment tour. My flight commander was excellent, but others seemed to revel in petty rules and catching people out. Overall a very good course, but in need of a re-vamp – which has now been carried out and is hopefully even better.

Over the years I have worked fairly regularly with the Army, Navy and Marines (both as a ranker and as an officer) and I have enjoyed the experience – but it has always reinforced my gratitude that I completed the paperwork in the RAF CIO all those years ago rather than elsewhere, having seriously considered the REME for a while. With more than 33 years in uniform (I am now full time reserve) I would do it all again if I had to – but my experiences pale into insignificance when I read the early postings in this thread and wonder if I could have done the same.

I accept that my first post on this thread has added nothing of value - but I wanted to add my praise to Danny and all who have made it what it is.

Geriaviator
20th Dec 2013, 13:34
Pompax wrote: Dakotas landing on 23 at Waterbeach, each aircraft on finals would switch on a single powerful light which seemed to be angled more downwards than forwardsProbably angled for tail-down taxying, which makes sense. I think Lincolns had two-position landing lights, first about 10deg down for approach, second about 25deg down for use after the tail was lowered. When I started night flying we weren't allowed to use landing lights on approach: "it's a taxi light, not a landing light, use the runway lights to judge your approach and roundout"

Pom Pax
20th Dec 2013, 14:04
Geriaviator,
Seems the likely answer, perhaps I should have said "short finals".
Thanks, Nick........Gerigator.........I gottah threeu yeer start on yorr buoy!!!
OMG sorry my schule never taught us to spell propa local despite being inside of a polygon bounded by Wyton, Oakington, Waterbeach, Whitchford & Mepal.

P.S. On a hot summer's night with window open and Double British Summer Time it was a hard job for a 6 year old to go to sleep with about 300 Merlins just outside. I even remember asking the Squadron Leader who was billeted with us if he could ring them up ask them to go the other way round. He did so (obviously pretending but enough to fool me).

Danny42C
20th Dec 2013, 21:44
Educated Armourer,

Welcome aboard our Happy Ship ! Everyone who has ever "Taken the King or Queen's Shilling" for service in an Air Force (of whatever hue), or is connected in any way with those who have, must have a story to tell - and this is the place to tell it ! (as PPRuNe spells out near the top of every page).

Admittedly it has wandered far from the rather limited Thread title with which Cliff Nemo (RIP) endowed it seven years ago, but that has been at the discretion of our Moderators, who've always ridden it on a very loose rein indeed and so allowed one of the most popular and long-lived Threads on the website to develop. Long may it continue.

"I feel underqualified to add, but add I will", you say. So carry on - you're in now !

I'm sure I speak for all, Danny.

Danny42C
20th Dec 2013, 22:55
Compared with my total recall of the journey into Berlin, I seem to have almost complete amnesia where RAF Gatow is concerned. What I can remember is that it was a solid, well built, comfortable place (I understand that it had been Hitler's "Cranwell") and that it had an MPN-1 on the field.

Why on earth hadn't they replaced this museum piece with a more modern CPN-4 before ? I at first asked myself. For now, if push came to shove, what was certain was that the Russians would frustrate any attempt to get a CPN-4 in by road or rail, even supposing that they did not close these two routes completely (as they had done before in '48). And I still don't believe we had anything which could fly in a load so big and awkward, and so heavy.

Then I got to thinking. The old "Bendix" had one thing going for it: it could be moved from one site to another to cover PAR approaches to 08 and 26. Sadly, I cannot now remember the approach pattern for 26 (but there looks to have been room for one in our Zone); as for 08, we were so close to the edge of the Zone that the approach can only have been started with the aircraft still in the corridor.

Either way in the '48 Airlift, landing in the winter with 10 tons of braunkohle behind you on only 2,000 yds of icy runway, the last thing you needed was a tailwind. They must have used both ends then and would do so again.

And the superior aspect of the CPN-4 lay only in its PPI "Search" capability (about double the range of the "Bendix"). A properly set up Talkdown tube in an MPN-1 could work every bit as well as the simpler, more advanced one in the CPN-4. At the end of the day, the limiting factor in all PARs is the length of the talkdown: 3½ minutes (say 7 miles).

You couldn't feed them in any faster than that whatever you'd got . The old MPN-1 could do that, and at Gatow there was no "search" involved, they all came in off the middle of the corridor (otherwise they'd have been shot down before they got to you); you just picked them up from there (or so I'm told).

Of course the first thing we had to do was to re-familiarise ourselves with the old "Truck". It had been three years since I last saw one, but everything came flooding back. The only thing was - there was hardly any practice ! I think a Communications "Pembroke" came in from time to time, and BEA (?) had a DC-3, but that was about all. No matter, if the balloon went up we'd soon have all the work we could handle (in fact it never did).

In the Tower there was little to do other than watch the E.German watchtower just over the boundary fence on the far side. With binoculars, you could usually see the watchkeeper there with his binocs, keeping an eye on you. We waited for something to happen. Names ? - all forgotten now.

In our spare time, we went round to see a bit of Berlin. I was impressed with the Gedachniskirche, a severely bomb-damaged church which had been left in that state as a permanent reminder of the reality of war. The yachts on Havel Lake made a pretty picture in the sunshine, a visit to the large US "PX", which served their garrison, was an eye-opener; it showed what can be done by way of looking after your troops if you really try. They had a huge range of electrical "white" goods at very modest prices, and were quite happy to sell them to us, but we couldn't take advantage as they were all 115 v.

On the Sunday a group of us went out to lunch at the Belgian Army Officers' Club (which was somewhere in our Zone) : all I remember was how smart their people looked in their red-tabbed khaki and how good the steaks were (almost certainly horse, but we didn't know it then).

Everybody went to have a look at our side of the Brandenburg Gate; somewhere a smaller Russian memorial of the Battle of Berlin was a tank on a plinth. All the openings were welded shut, but local legend had it that the skeletons of the crew were still inside. Regular guided tours of the E.German Zone were available, but I didn't bother.

One particular road traffic control system was interesting: a long straight boulevard had a number of crossroads. The timings of the traffic lights was fixed so that, if you kept exactly to the 50 kph (30 mph) limit, it would be "greens" all the way. I never remember meeting anything like that anywhere since.

At the end of two weeks our reliefs came in and I was anxious to be off on the road home. The panic didn't last more than a few weeks (IIRC), and it was all over before it came to my turn again. The zone transit was far more relaxed in the West direction, I don't think the autobahn police "buzzed" me at all. It had been an Experience.

Goodnight, chaps,

Danny 42C.


"This Airlift is a Piece of Gâteau" (worst pun of the decade).

PS: (À propos of nothing at all : The German equivalent of our "Oom-pah-pah" is "Tsching-dérassa-boom"; a good example to "get those arms up !" is Paul Carl Lincke's "Berliner Luft" [the unofficial Berlin "anthem"], available on You Tube - #Berliner%Luft%20 -).

Chugalug2
21st Dec 2013, 09:28
Danny, I see you are out to make mischief of my unfortunate parking incident. I'm afraid that I have no further comment to make other than, "I subbose you dink dat's vunny!".
Your description of the road journey via East Germany to West Berlin reminds me of the journey I took in the opposite direction. I had purchased a brand new UK spec VW Polo in W Berlin when it was profitable to do so to import into the UK (list price saving mainly). I had been briefed on every aspect of the deal, down to equipping myself with a warning triangle as required by the West Germans. What I had not been briefed on was the actual drive to West Germany. Like you I imagined it was a single Autobahn without junctions and most probably security fenced off from the DDR. Nothing of the sort! One was faced with the choice of many destinations, from Warsaw to Prague. Only by careful attention to the road signs could one remain on track for the West German frontier checkpoint destination. Even then it transpired later that one had a window of ATA there. Too late and you were labelled a spy, too soon and you were done for speeding.
Mercifully I got through unchallenged and now had to concentrate on the most vital aspect of all, getting my papers stamped at the opposite frontier when leaving West Germany at Venlo. My new car was thus officially exported. Next tick in the box, load it up with wine at the Channel before making my booked passage on the Hovercraft to Dover and there to pay HMC&R their Dane geld. Longest journey I've ever made by road, or ever likely to.
I've a horrible feeling I've told this tale before as well, if so apologies especially to you Educated Armourer, as it would be fresher in your mind having just read your way through the entire thread. Interesting that you savoured both RAF welcoming committees and can testify to their differences. The bitter Flt Cdrs observation certainly rings bells! Welcome Sir, and pray tell us your tale.


Oh, just for you Danny,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnLxfoDJtTs

Wander00
21st Dec 2013, 09:39
Danny - in the late 50s/early 60s there was a road with timed lights in Slough -ISTR they were set for 30mph so we did it on bikes (young fit teenager then) at 15mph, though a friend claimed to have done it at 30mph

MPN11
21st Dec 2013, 09:59
Timed lights in Alexandria, VA on Route 1 (Old Town, North Patrick St and North Henry St) to encourage adherence to the 20 mph limit ... and trucks confined to the centre lane of 3 to keep them away from the 'historic' buildings.

airborne_artist
21st Dec 2013, 10:10
Wander00 Danny - in the late 50s/early 60s there was a road with timed lights in Slough -ISTR they were set for 30mph so we did it on bikes (young fit teenager then) at 15mph, though a friend claimed to have done it at 30mph

A few weeks ago I rode my bike 53 miles along the foot of the Berkshire Ridgeway (White Horse area), skirted the E side of Shrivenham and back through Stanford in the Vale and Steventon (edge of RAF Abingdon, to give an aviation link).

I averaged 15.6 mph. I'm 54 :}

Wander00
21st Dec 2013, 10:20
AA - good for you, but I think 30 mph on the shaggy old bike I had as a teenager would have been hard pressed to make the 30mph!

mikehallam
21st Dec 2013, 10:36
The Slough 'experiment' was on the main West Rd, i.e. the A4, and had loads of lights all set to make you do either a steady 30 mph or if you were quick and lucky (Velocette 500 MSS) 60 mph.

Slough was where the Citroen Bijou was manufactured as an alternative to the 2 CV on the same chassis, but with a rather pretty plastic/Fi glass (?) body. The underworks were still lightly built steel rails and suffered from the usual ravages of the tin worm.

I've a feeling the whole idea of timed lights was dropped and in the UK we succumbed to wholesale deployment of roundabouts, nowadays reduced to vestigial white circles.

mike hallam.

Warmtoast
21st Dec 2013, 17:03
Re the timed traffic lights in Germany.

The German town of Viersen which is about halfway between Monchengladbach and the Dutch border at Venlo had timed lights. These lights showed the speed at which one need to travel to get the next set at green. I remember the system worked very well, and if you did get to the next set at red, once they'd turned green it was only necessary to follow the numbers for a 'no stops' drive.

clicker
21st Dec 2013, 18:14
Warmtoast,

Wish that could happen in my city. I'm sure the council have a "Make them burn more petrol for our taxes" policy.

Even driving home from work at 2am on a Sunday would get you stopped at most lights. In fact in the 15 years on the same route I only made a non stop trip once or maybe even twice and the trip was only 2 1/2 miles.

Danny42C
21st Dec 2013, 18:30
Chugalug,

Rest assured, Sir, we are not Making Mock of your Misfortune (and in any case you came out of it with Honour Unsullied) - but "you 'ave to larf", now really, don't you ? (after it was all over, and you and your crew suffered no harm, except perhaps the "loadie", who may have had rope burns from sliding down that ship's hawser), which I still think is a prop holding the tail up !

Of course your Berlin trip must still have been at the height of the Cold War: I am surprised that the Staatspolizei did not try to intimidate you on the Autobahn (I don't think they had Wartburgs, probably something more potent [Skoda Octavias ?] for the job - read somewhere that young Luftwafffe pilots were forbidden to own them because of the accident record).

Yes HMC&E were a bit of a bind. When I bought a Renault 16 in UK in '72, they did me for Import Duty plus Purchase Tax on top of all (? too early for VAT ? - should know !). As that was tax-on-tax, I thought it a bit hard (put quite a dent in my Lump Sum, too !)

Thank you for your You Tube of "Berliner Luft". It's a fine, bouncing march and really gets the Berliners going. There are umpteen versions on the web by the Berlin Philharmonic.....D.

Wander00, airborne artist and MPN11,

You learn something new every day ! So there were other examples in Britain, too..D.

a a, we've long suspected that "14" wasn't quite right - now you've "come clean" - but 53 miles at an average of 15.6 mph at age 54 ! What are they feeding you on ? Even when I was 14, and nobody thought anything of 50 miles "on yer bike", we reckoned 12 mph was good. Now, even if I could remember how (do you really never forget), and I still could , I'd be too terrified of our broken, pot-holed roads even to try...D.

mikehallam,

Your:
"I've a feeling the whole idea of timed lights was dropped and in the UK we succumbed to wholesale deployment of roundabouts, nowadays reduced to vestigial white circles".

I read that, in Germany, the Traffic Police greatly admired our Roundabouts (Kreisfahren ?) as the result of an accident was usually "nur blech" ("only tinware"), instead of the deaths and injuries which came from crossroad crashes....D.

Now, in my capacity as Old Man in The Corner,

A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all our PPRuNers and Readers .

(with a special Thanks to our Moderators, for leaving us alone to play).

Wishing you All The Best, Danny and Family.

smujsmith
21st Dec 2013, 19:29
Aahh Danny, you do throw those logs on the fire. We approach the end of yet another epic year of this thread, and all the history that it "hoovers up" in its progress through the posts for all of us, to recount our history and feel that we all can relate to the originators of the thread in their service to our country (though, many like me, offer only recent experience). We should all be grateful to the moderators for their forbearance, but accept that a story that started in 1943 is still happening, and long may that continue. Like you, I wish all fellow PPruners a very merry Christmas, and the very best of fortune for the coming year. Looking forward to the continued progress of this now, surely, the doyen of the Military threads, in the coming year. Once again, felicitations to all.

Smudge :ok:

mmitch
21st Dec 2013, 20:12
A Merry Christmas to all Pruners especially on this thread. Perhaps some memories of Christmases spent on duty are in order?
mmitch.

Fareastdriver
21st Dec 2013, 21:11
Long distance speed checks must be of Marxist/Leninist origin. It's the same in parts of China.

For example, the expressway from Luzhao that joins the Chengdu/Chongqing expressway is 60 kilometres long. When you collect your ticket as you enter it at Luzhao it has a time stamped on it. The speed limit is 120 kph so if you arrive at the next toll within thirty minutes you get bounced for speeding; 10 yuan/minute, about £1. The result it that as you approach the end there would be all these vehicles either stopped or moving slowly with the drivers looking at their watches.

Never bothered me; a few reminbe here and there, mayo wente.

camlobe
22nd Dec 2013, 00:26
Chugalug2,
Although I had the pleasure of 'just being along for the ride' in a couple of different 4-engined taildraggers, grass excursions off the Tarmac happened on a couple of occasions. Fortunate each time to still have our tail wheel on the ground at the end, but more of that later.

Airborne_artist,
Had a look at my push bike a couple of weeks ago for about 15 seconds. Then lit up a cigarette. I'm 55.

Educated Armourer,
I sincerely believe that during my time, the RAF was the best flying club in the world, and I even had the pleasure and the privilege of being a member of the Best Flying Club in the best flying club in the world for my last tour, but that is another story for later. My only visit to Cosford was around 10 years ago, and it was to the museum after inspecting a friends aircraft. Good cafe and exceptional museum. The Trade Training School (No2 SoTT IIRC) churned out some excellent people in many disciplines of aircraft engineering.

Danny, BEagle et al,
On the few occasions I visited Germany, it was in the '90's. None of the stresses you gentlemen have mentioned. However, I quickly realised that the safest place on the autobahns was the inside lane as the fastest cars in Europe were all flat out in the outside lane. Of course, by this time, there were not even any border controls. The buildings were still in place on the border between Holland and Germany, but they were abandoned and the barriers removed.

Fareastdriver,
They don't make 'em like that any more, but at one time, they seemed to be fitted to everything. Even the Comet prototype. And at around 900 lbs each with brakes fitted, I'm glad they don't.

Halton (contd)
As well as being the Premier SoTT :), RAF Halton had the previously mentioned hospital (ahh, nurses), and it was also the training school for Dental Nurses. During the early classroom work sessions, I was given a card. "Report for Dental Parade etc, etc". Camlobe duly turns up and awaits the 5-minute checkup. Not today. A most striking beauty, approaches me, calls me by my name...and I forget the rest. I was dumbstruck at my luck. Unfortunately, just when I really needed to make a favourable first impression, my tongue went on strike. And to top it off, I carried out a majestic trip against the magazine table. No doubt, the angelic girl would be mightily impressed with my break-dance recovery, but her modesty prevented her complementing me on my efforts. By the time I had sat down, my deft and cool persona was still in the waiting room. The girl was a Dental Nurse trainee. We got chatting and after a couple of minutes, I felt certain that my charm had completely erased my earlier faux pas from her mind. She asked me about my dental history, and became extremely interested to hear about the private dental treatment I had endured in my early teens. After a quick root (sic) around my mandibles, she became quite excited. I had just been elevated from "nothing new here, next" to "this will make my coursework far more interesting than anyone else's". I returned a number of times to allow her to drool over my gnashers, and to my eternal dismay, this was the only part of camlobe that she found interesting. And as for my charm attempt, the passing remark of "mind the table" every visit left me very deflated.

Although the Bull Nights were regular, they were less often than in Basic training. However, the standards were still high. The only real leeway we were given was the allowance of private bed covers and quilts. This worked extremely well as the bed pack would remain in the bottom of the cupboard, and would only see the light of day for the Bull Night inspection. Marching was confined to the trip down hill in the morning, back up again at night, and every other trip we did while in uniform e.g. SHQ, Dental, gym.

Our instructors were all serving or ex NCO's. The fact that these gentlemen had been there, seen it, and done it made a considerable difference to us sprogs. It is far easier to respect someone who has done it and teaches it, than someone who just teaches it. Through the whole nine months of our technical training, there was only one instructor who didn't come up to scratch compared to all the others. I met this individual 18 years later, and he hadn't improved, but that is another story.

Our first sojourn out of the classroom and away from mathematics, basic physics etc, was to the Basic Engineering or "hack and bash" workshop. This shed was for some, a torture chamber, and for others a challenge, but I don't seriously think that any of the thousands who had been here before found it easy. Hack and bash was where the instructors gauged your hand skills with basic tools. And I mean basic. A hacksaw, a file, a square, and a vice. Over the next few days (?) we had to create a lump that was cut, filed, drilled, riveted, and generally sworn at. It had to be perfect. I foolishly thought that, because I was quite skilled at working with tools on woodwork and metalwork, I would be able to produce the required standard in record time. After having my attempts rejected at each and every stage, I seriously thought I was about to have my career ended here at the first technical hurdle. However, after settling down and trying to produce the workpiece through patience and precision, not speed, it started to slowly meet the standard, although I am sure it was only the minimum.

Thirty years before, a number of gentlemen have advised me, the workpiece was a bit different. Everyone started with a block of steel approximately one and a half inches rough square. They then had to reduce this to a cube of one inch square, accurate to one thousandth of an inch, and all corners square. My respects to my predecessors.

The Discip Sergeant happily informs us that AOC's is coming. Oh, joy. More Bull Nights. And it is my old friend AVM Pete Bairsto again. Twice in a matter of weeks. I should get the beers in.

Every morning and afternoon, we enjoy a short break. One of the sheds is empty, and at each break, two NAAFI wagons park up, swing up the rear, and allow mayhem to commence. The tea is terrible, the coffee slightly better, but the 'snake and pigmy' pies are to die for. A couple of hundred guys chattering while filling their faces is the same sight and sound whether at a rugger match, a barbecue, or a shed. The clothing may be different, but the topics of conversation are the same. Work, girls, cars, sport, beer.

We are given a bit of a tour around the shed complex. At one end is the riggers training ground. The shed seems to be filled with Sea Vixen's and Whirlwind Helecopters. In the middle ground is the general familiarisation area with ejector seats and Gnats. The engine shed is full of engines, both turboprop and jet. In one corner, there are a number of piston engines, and I linger here far too long. An number of Alvis Leonides radials, a Rolls Royce Merlin, and I seem to remember a cutaway of a Bristol Hercules. The Hercules looked to be the most complex engine I have ever seen. There are also propellers, including one that had been fastened to one of the sheds vertical stanchions. I once witnessed three Malaysians attempting to use the five foot long Acrotorq torque wrench to tighten this propeller up. The three of these slim and light chaps could not make the torque wrench 'break'. They were assisted by one of the instructors. Then they had to reset the torque wrench. When the roller snapped back in, three flying objects departed the torque wrench. I believe no great harm was done.

Having successfully completed "hack and bash", and another round of exams, we moved onto the real deal. Engines. This course was to be the first not to undergo piston engine training as most of the RAF aircraft were powered by jets (actually this had been the case for some years). The RAF got this one wrong, really, because a number of years later, I returned for my piston engine course, but that is for another time.

Camlobe

Merry Christmas to all our readers and contributors.

Dave Wilson
22nd Dec 2013, 08:11
Danny

They had timed lights at Gutersloh when I was there in the 70's, very good they were too. There's a road in Lincoln with 12 sets of lights laughingly called the Tritton relief road that could do with them. It's Lincoln's longest car park.

Educated Armourer

Whereabouts in Waddo are you? I'm one of the noisemongers at Waddo flying club, come over and have a brew sometime.

MMitch

The only Christmas I remember being on duty (although there must have been more) was at Gut when I was on Snow and Ice over the period. We were called out on New Year's Eve too...:*. The three or four of us that were there spent most of the call out racing around the sheet ice in our cars on 3 Sqdn's pan well away from any interfering eyes; headlights on in the dark sliding all over the place. Great fun.

Edit: I remember being on orderly dog once at Sealand. I had been trying some homebrew the night before so was a little under the weather, so the earthquake that happened wasa bit of a dream like affair. It left a ripple in the concrete floor of the guardroom. The same thing happened when I was instructing at Cosford. The classroom started shaking and my immediate thoughts were that a Vulcan was doing a roller. It was just another earthquake. Another one woke me up in Lincoln not so many years ago. Thank God we live in an earthquake free country. Although having said that the original Lincoln Cathedral was almost destroyed in one.

MPN11
22nd Dec 2013, 09:11
The only real leeway we were given was the allowance of private bed covers and quilts. This worked extremely well as the bed pack would remain in the bottom of the cupboard, and would only see the light of day for the Bull Night inspection. Sadly, in 1964 at BRNC, it was still necessary to prevent the College sinking. Thus, despite now being the Senior Flight and accommodated in 2-man cabins, bed packs remained de rigeur. To save a precious few minutes each morning, my cabin mate and I signed out 2 sleeping bags from the expedition store, and camped nightly in an empty cabin at the far end of the passageway. Our bed-packs thus remained immaculate for weeks on end.
Thirty years before, a number of gentlemen have advised me, the workpiece was a bit different. Everyone started with a block of steel approximately one and a half inches rough square. They then had to reduce this to a cube of one inch square, accurate to one thousandth of an inch, and all corners square. Indeed, and my brother-in-law was one of those in the 60s. We visited the RAF Museum at Hendon a few years ago, where such a cube was in a display case.
_______________

May I take this moment to also wish you all, readers and contributors and indeed all servicemen/women (past and present, and regardless of uniform colour), a very Happy Christmas and a safe and healthy 2014.

Chugalug2
22nd Dec 2013, 10:00
Danny, I do indeed rest assured Sir. My post was merely an attempt at your caption competition in the manner of WD491 addressing me in reproof, given that I had left her with her nose buried in the grass. Having explained my feeble joke, it is obviously no longer in the running. C'est la vie! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif


Camlobe, kind of you to reassure me that inadvertently taking to the grass was par for the course, but I should just as swiftly reassure you that it was my only such offence of that type.
Personal duvets? I can hardly believe it. We have come a long way from Danny's personal fully strung air transportable collapsible scratcher, but ingenuity will out and your bed pack was, I am sure, pristine.
Interesting that you found the Hercules complex. I did too, but from a lower level of knowledge. Suffice it to say that all the complexity kept going once fired up, only to be arrested in my experience by some ancillary fault or other, which a harness change or injector flush would often cure. A broken oil pipe was the one cause of having to shut one down in anger that I recall. We diverted to RAAF Pearce as a result and taxied onto their clean white concrete apron. Well, it was up to then...

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all that inhabit these hallowed portals. May 2014 be just as enjoyable as its predecessors on this, the Best of all PPRuNe Threads! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Brian 48nav
22nd Dec 2013, 10:52
I too love this thread! No-one trying to score points off or insult someone!


Airborne Artist


At 67 I'm still cycling 3 times a week - generally average 40 miles.


This summer while cycling through Llanthony over the Black Mountains I stopped to assist a couple of cyclists with a problem - he was 80 and out touring Wales from Bristol! His good lady looked about my age.


Last year, while riding between Raglan and Monmouth I was overtaken by an 81 yr old - told me he was out from Newport and practising for the annual 12 hour ride that starts there!


There is a retired Herc' pilot I know ( who has just clocked 70 ) who cycles every day and does the trip from home in Malmesbury to his cottage at Lochinver ( North of Ullapool ) in 3 days. Wiggo eat your heart out!


Mery Christmas everyone and a Happy New Year.

Wander00
22nd Dec 2013, 10:58
Danny and everyone else who has contributed to this thread over the year, many thanks for sharing your memories to make a stunningly riveting thread. May I wish all a Happy Christmas and a stonking 2014


W

26er
23rd Dec 2013, 13:40
In the late fifties there was a traffic signal suspended over the crossroads in the centre of Gutersloh town which resembled a clock face with red and green sectors and a pointer which rotated. It worked well as if it was showing the green sector you could estimate how long it would be in your favour as you approached. Anyhow my wife and kids newly arrived in MQs opposite the airfield made regular journeys into town to the NAAFI shop etc. After about a month of this I happened to sit beside her (in our new Peugeot 403, in case you are interested Danny) as she drove towards the junction. With loud cries from me of "STOP STOP" she came to a halt. I pointed out signal in the red almost above us. "Oh" she said, "I wondered what that thing was". She must have been very lucky previously.

On a slightly different tack some of the pedestrian crossings in Berlin had three lights by the push buttons, two red and one green. No one seemed to know the reason so we asked a policeman, as you do. It turned out to be a safety measure in case one of the red bulbs failed. Clever chaps, those Krauts.

Madbob
23rd Dec 2013, 14:54
Wander00 - Seconded!

Happy Christmas to all. Reading Danny's post re. Gatow made me think fondly of almost the final trip on the METS course at Finningley which involved a weekend landaway flown by the studes (me) with our QFI's. (METS being then the multi-engine training sqn to train pilots for the likes of Nimrod, Hercules, Andover etc. and part of no. 6 FTS)

I did mine at the end of February in 1981 and with four studes plus 2 QFI's on board we headed east. Mine was the first leg FY to Gutersloh flown on airways and lasted 2 hours and on arrival we did a quick turn-round and refuelled for the next leg to Gatow. The rest of the trip was as a pax but we were all briefed to keep a good lookout as we flew down the central corridor at fairly low level, probably no more than FL50 or FL70 and past Hannover and into East German airspace.

It was amazing, our route took us just north of Brandenburg and over various military airfields and training areas. I distinctly remember one with huge numbers of helicopters and also spotting the river Elbe as we crossed it. Another memory I have is seeing the other air traffic heading west with BAC 111's (and the like) flashing past us with only a 500 foot vertical separation. It certainly made you concentrate on flying accurately!

On arrival at Gatow we did a virtually straight-in approach over a Russian military tank training area which we flew over relatively low and landed shortly after a RAF C-130 had landed and only after arrival did we hear that it had taken hits from a trigger happy Russian who had loosed off with his AK47! The Herc had been hit in the wing and was leaking fuel. I don't know if this was fairly common then or if it sparked off a diplomatic incident or not but I didn't hear much about this afterwards.

We were put up in the OM which was pretty typical of any RAF Mess but this had a certain amount of history too it with ISTR a huge basement. This was on a Friday and we were not due to return till the Monday so the next two days were spent "sightseeing" both in the nightclubs of the famous Kurfustendam (Club 77?) and also crossing into East Berlin (dressed in No.1's) via Check Point Charlie and dining out in style c/o the French Air Force at their airfield at Tegel.

Seeing East Berlin was a revelation. There was very little traffic on the wide roads and still evidence of bomb sites which had not been re-built. By contract West Berlin was full of traffic and every suitable building plot had been developed. At the time we had a Master Nav called "Spud" Murphy at METS where he was one of the ground instructors and just about to retire. He had flown in Lancasters in 1944 and 1945 and had flown on ops to Berlin. He used to joke that he had created some of the car parks in Berlin!

I also remember being pleasantly surprised to find out that the exchange rate was 10:1 between East and West German Marks; This wasn't apparent to us when we were looking at the price list displayed outside a hotel restaurant but once we clock this the prices looked VERY reasonable indeed so we proceeded to have a big feast! No doubt we were eating in a restaurant where only Russian military, the East German elite, the Stazi and foreigners could dine. We saw queues outside food shops elsewhere and the shops were practically empty with little in the shop-windows.

Crossing back into West Berlin was like turning the lights back on after a power cut! The rest of the weekend was a blur and I was glad that I was not one of the studes having to fly back on the return leg. In fact I felt I had the easiest part with UK ATC for part of it before Eurocontrol took over with a radar to PAR at Gutersloh.

Now all a distant memory, of nearly 34 years ago. Keep the memories flowing Danny - you've got a better memory than me!

Happy Christmas one and all.

Madbob

BEagle
23rd Dec 2013, 15:43
I also remember being pleasantly surprised to find out that the exchange rate was 10:1 between East and West German Marks; This wasn't apparent to us when we were looking at the price list displayed outside a hotel restaurant but once we clock this the prices looked VERY reasonable indeed so we proceeded to have a big feast!

Unfortunately a group / bunch (what is the collective noun for navigators - a mis-plot?) of navigator students weren't quite as clever. They changed some Deutsche Marks into Mark der DDR and sat down to their feast. But when the bill arrived, it was clear that they hadn't changed enough money - so had to make good the balance with Dm, but at a rate of 1:1 rather than 1:10.....:hmm:

On a slightly different tack some of the pedestrian crossings in Berlin had three lights by the push buttons, two red and one green. No one seemed to know the reason so we asked a policeman, as you do.

And woe betide you if you tried to cross the street either than 1. At an official crossing and 2. When the 'Grüner gehender Mann', not the 'Roter stehender Mann' was showing! If you tried anything else, there'd be much sighing, tutting and finger waving by the locals, because 'Befehl ist befehl - so sei es!'.

Fareastdriver
23rd Dec 2013, 16:07
Chinese traffic light are the best. They have big numbers below them that tick off the seconds before the lights are going to turn green or red. The amber is during the last five seconds before the red and there is no red/amber. The have violation cameras so if you floor the throttlle to get past before they change and then fail you can feel the flash as the camera goes off. That's 50 yuan.

You make a note of it and at the end of the month you trot along to the Fines Department and pay your bill otherwise you have to pay extra if they send it. Some you weren't expecting but on the whole they were pretty fair and of course there are no penalty points involved.

Should you cause an accident with a skinful you can look for a big compensation bill and a long time in a slammer.

Pom Pax
23rd Dec 2013, 16:28
Just to clarify at the risk of being called a mis-plot the official rate was 1Dm = 1DDRm, the 1 = 10 was the black market rate. This ratio applied all over Eastern Europe.

Danny42C
23rd Dec 2013, 18:41
Chugalug,

Reverting to your unfortunate experience with 491, it occurs to me that "I'm in no position to talk", as we used to say. At least you ended with a recognisable aeroplane, and were able to jump down and walk away (the only criterion of a "good landing" in our day). The downside must have been the sense of totally bewildered horror when you turned back and contemplated your recent handiwork. A TM ? - happens all the time. A Spitfire ? - all too easy. A Hastings - well that really is Something !

Whereas I, on my fateful day, finished up with a unrecognisable pile of scrap, was carried out, and took no interest in proceedings for quite a while. MEMO: must lay in a can of Guinness for the 70th Anniversary on 24.2.14....D.

To all who have added to our Store of Knowledge about Programmed Traffic Lights, Thanks !:

This is most interesting. Now, I come to think of it, I have a vague memory of the overhead "lights plus stop-watch" good idea in Germany. And when things were quiet at night, didn't they put the lot off and just have a flashing amber ?....D.

May have told this tale before (in which case apologies): the young Danny in Liverpool, with brand new roller skates, roamed the deserted city streets one Sunday afternoon . The City Fathers had recently installed the first sets of (big, fat rubber) traffic light road pads. Dad had told me how they worked.

Well, I just had to try it (what small boy could resist ?) Finding a quiet crossroads (Church St. was one, the cross at the point where it becomes Lord St. the other), I hopped up and down - and it worked !!

I'd built up quite a tailback of traffic on the other side, and was so engrossed in finding the most "tender" spot on the pad, that I failed to see that the driver in pole position, suddenly realising what was going on, had leaped out, run over to me, and delivered a stinging clout round the ear (you could do that then - '20s or '30s - to universal approval) which led me to desist. (Didn't dare tell Dad when I got home - might have got another "fourpenny one" !) But they were good days....D.

Camlobe,

Private Bedcovers and Quilts !? What is this Air Force coming to, Sir !...D.

26er,

How did you find the 403 ? (Was it not the wondercar of the day ? - after the DS19, of course). I'd like to know, please - and did you try the "Coupleur Jaeger" ?...D.

The Thread is running away from me now. ......Cheers,.... Danny.

clicker
23rd Dec 2013, 22:09
Danny,

Your mention of the Skoda brought back another story from my police days.

Back in the late 80's we had a control position just for the M23 in Sussex and then it had a panel for the motorway phones (later transferred to Godstone Motorway Control).

One Sunday evening this was manned by a PC called Barry who took a call from a phone on the southbound. Conversation started off quite normal when all of a sudden Barry starts laughing his head off. Then we heard him say "That will teach you to buy a Skoda!".

Turned out this poor motorist, who did see the funny side of the incident, had been driving along when all of a sudden his back end gives a lurch and he sees his offside read wheel over taking him as he grinds to a halt.

Just as well not too much traffic around or it could have been a nasty one. Also it was before the advent of mobile phones as we know them now, we would have been flood with calls otherwise with few callers knowing exactly were they were.

Best wishes to all the regular tuners to this thread, may 2014 be as good as 2013 for the stories.

Warmtoast
23rd Dec 2013, 22:15
Camlobe

RAF Halton had the previously mentioned hospital (ahh, nurses)

My only visit to the hospital was in 1959 — read on.....

Following my arrival home from Gan in December 1958, early the following year (1959) whilst stationed at R.A.F. Abingdon I was contacted by the station medical centre and told that I had to attend the R.A.F. Hospital at Halton for a medical examination; no reason was given and I was provided with a letter for me to report to the Institute of Pathology and Tropical Medicine at Halton. As it specialised in tropical medicine I suspected it was something to do with my recent service in the Far East, but otherwise I was puzzled by the need for the appointment.

Accordingly I attended the hospital, had a blood sample taken and was given a general medical examination. I was told I would be summoned back for further examination if any abnormalities were found — in the event about a month later I was sent for by the MO at R.A.F. Abingdon who told me everything was all clear and that I was not infected, only then was I told that there had been a scare that a case of Lymphatic Filariasis (Elephantiasis) had been diagnosed in a servicemen who’d been stationed at Gan with the result that I and others who’d served at Gan had had to be screened for possible infection.

Until then I’d no real knowledge about the disease, although I seem to recall that the walls of the waiting area at the Institute of Pathology and Tropical Medicine at Halton were adorned with gory photos of sufferers who exhibited the typical symptoms of the disease with gross deformities of the limbs and in men hugely enlarged Genitals (mainly the scrotum).

It is only relatively recently with the potential for research via the internet that I found that the R.A.F. had a real cause for concern about the health of airmen returning from Gan as an early 1950’s United Nations (WHO) study based on a survey of the southern atolls of the Maldives, including Addu Atoll where Gan is located, showed that Filariasis (Elephantiasis) was
endemic in all the villages (islands) of Addu Atoll with a filarial infection rate in the population of 14.1%.

United Nations (WHO) Addu Atoll Study
The introduction to the UN (WHO) research paper states:
“Filariasis is an important public-health problem in the Maldive Islands. The World Health Organization received a request through the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland for technical assistance in the eradication of the disease. To comply with this request, the decision was taken by the WHO to appoint a consultant on a short-term assignment to study the problem and to submit recommendations for the control of the disease. The author was appointed as the WHO Filariasis Consultant and, with the assistance of Dr. M. I. Mathew and Mr. M. A. U. Menon, carried out investigations during January to March 1951 on Filariasis in the Maldives.”

Description of the Disease (from WHO Website)
“Lymphatic filariasis is infection with the filarial worms, Wuchereria bancrofti, Brugia malayi or B. timori. These parasites are transmitted to humans through the bite of an infected mosquito and develop into adult worms in the lymphatic vessels, causing severe damage and swelling (lymphoedema). Elephantiasis, a painful disfiguring swelling of the legs and genital organs – is a classic sign of late-stage disease.”

...and from GSK who make the anti-parasitic drug Albendazole:

Lymphatic filariasis, considered globally as a Neglected Tropical Disease, is a parasitic disease caused by microscopic, thread-like worms. The adult worms only live in the human lymph system. The lymph system maintains the body's fluid balance and fights infections. Lymphatic filariasis is spread from person to person by mosquitoes.
People with the disease can suffer from lymphedema and elephantiasis and in men, swelling of the scrotum, called hydrocele. Lymphatic filariasis is a leading cause of permanent disability worldwide. Communities frequently shun and reject women and men disfigured by the disease. Affected people frequently are unable to work because of their disability, and this harms their families and their communities.

The following photograph is courtesy of GlaxoSmithKline who make the drug Albendazole an anti-parasitic drug that plays a role in helping stop the transmission of this disease.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/GAN/Image3_zps100b7700.jpg

Warmtoast
23rd Dec 2013, 22:46
mmitch

Perhaps some memories of Christmases spent on duty are in order?

Not sure if this should go here or perhaps be the start of a new thread, but anyway as it's Christmas here's to starting the ball rolling

My first Christmas in the R.A.F. was spent at 5 FTS (R.A.F. Thornhill) S. Rhodesia. I remember the main course of Christmas lunch in the Airmen’s Mess was served by officers is this a tradition that still takes place overseas?
Photo shows the ‘Erks’ waiting to be served.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Xmas5_zpsaa4fa96a.jpg

Sports wise another tradition was the Sergeant’s Mess played football against the Officer’s Mess — the sergeants offered a handicap to help the officers win by dressing up in silly outfits as below.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Xmas2_zps0080fcf2.jpg

Families were catered for too. An Anson flew in from the North Pole with Santa aboard complete with a large sack of toys that he dispensed to the waiting kids after they’d towed him away from the apron in a make-shift sleigh.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Xmas3_zps45b80b59.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Xmas1_zps6780545b.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Xmas4_zps89f533b9.jpg

BEagle
23rd Dec 2013, 23:26
Also it was before the advent of mobile phones as we know them now, we would have been flood with calls otherwise with few callers knowing exactly were they were.


Which is why the emergency phones on motorways were once known not as Vodafones, but as Skodafones.....

Although Skodas of today are vastly superior to the wretched things of those days. Not quite as bad as the truly dreadful 'FSO Polonez' though - aka the 'KGB GT'.

camlobe
23rd Dec 2013, 23:36
Clicker,
Always time for a Skoda joke.

Why do Skoda's have heated rear windows? To keep your hands warm when pushing the piece of $#|¥.

What do you call a Skoda convertible? A skip.

How do you double the value of a Skoda? Fill the tank.

Danny,
Salt into the wound. Some of us had our own rugs beside our bed...so our little tootsies didn't get cold on the floor when we swung out of bed. Rug rolled up and put into locker before leaving the room, of course.

Warmtoast,

I don't know if it still happens overseas, or indeed anywhere else in the RAF, but it was the norm in the late '70's and into the '80's. The added benefit for the erks, was being waited on by the station execs...and the SWO. Invariably, this generous and considerate re-enactment of the Monarch washing the feet of the poor halted immediately upon the start of the food fight. Looking back now, I never remember any Staish or SWO taking it in bad humour. And I'm sure the dry cleaning bill was paid for through the Stn Cdr's fund.

Mrs camlobe and I were reminiscing whilst addressing crimble cards to far away friends. Every year of our married life while I was serving, we always made sure any of the young singlies we knew who were on duty over the Christmas break, got as close to a home Christmas as possible. The biggest complaint consistently heard from these fine young men was of an over-enhanced abdomen. Mrs camlobe, who came from a large family, was in her absolute element, clucking and fussing with the best of mother hens, while miraculously re-appearing every few minutes with yet more edible offerings. Our daughter grew up with an inordinate number of "older brothers", some of whom we retain contact with to this day. Of course, dear daughter was spoilt rotten by her "siblings".

It was a good life for one and all.

Our thoughts this Christmas go out to those now serving and away from their homes.

Camlobe

Danny42C
24th Dec 2013, 19:29
Warmtoast,

I'm interested in your mention of Elephantiasis. Some time ago, when I was telling tales of old wartime Calcutta, I put in a Post about a pretended (scrotal) case of the disease being used as a ploy to cover the theft of a lathe chuck (for scrap value) from the Dum-Dum arms factory.

As for the time-honoured practice of the Officers and NCOs serving Christmas Dinner to the troops, it was certainly in operation in my day. Concerning '42 in Worli (Bombay), I'm sure I wrote a Post here about having to do my duty, which involved crossing 50 yds of open ground (between cookhouse and dining "basha") with the dinners, under relentless ground-attack by every s####hawk in Bombay.

Curiously, I can't find the Post again now. But long may the tradition continue !...D.

camlobe,

Rugs, too ! Where will it all end ?

Your: "Our thoughts this Christmas go out to those now serving and away from their homes". Amen to that ! ...D.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all, Danny.

ricardian
24th Dec 2013, 20:53
Something seasonal (seen on the book of Face):
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1474365_1427409540826026_225945199_n.jpg

Danny42C
25th Dec 2013, 20:46
clicker, BEagle and camlobe,

Re: Skodas. I've been digging a bit more since fingering the "Octavia" as the model which the Luftwaffe (supposedly) forbade their young "Prunes" to drive. It seems that the pre- and early wartime "Superb" is by far the mostly likely suspect, and Wiki will tell you all about it.

It appears that it had a performance which would not shame today's supercars, and those who can still remember the steering, braking and roadholding characteristics of the things we then drove can only shudder at the possibilities.

Danny.

NutLoose
25th Dec 2013, 21:11
There used to be a Skoda garage near me that used to put Skodas outside on the forecourt on wheel clamps to prevent people stealing the clamps.

Wander00
25th Dec 2013, 21:56
Should have tried a Wartburg. Dad had one and it laid its own smokescreen (3 cylinder 2 stroke!)

mikehallam
25th Dec 2013, 22:36
I still have a ~1987 600 cc twin cyl. 2-stroke Trabant.

Beautifully tractable & smooth engine.

Originally owned in East Germany, after the wall came down it was purchased & driven to England. Mrs H. & I used it as a fun/regular car and for microcar rallys.

Now a 'queen' in my garage as I wouldn't sell it except to a car collector - too many yobbos used to phone up thinking it only suitable to drive into the ground for a seasons 'fun'. Well engineered and a non-ferrous body give it a charm.

mike hallam.

Dave Wilson
25th Dec 2013, 22:42
Mike

Don't know if it's true but are Trabants made out of some kind of papier mache?

26er
26th Dec 2013, 09:41
PEUGEOT 403

Danny,

The 403 I had in 1958 was a bog standard one bought from a dealer, Herr Portner of Bielefeld, who used to come to RAF Gutersloh to do business very successfully. In fact I believe I first met him at Ahlhorn before the wing's move to Gutersloh. A very pleasant car which had done 100,000 miles when I traded it in five years later. At that time a Sikh gentleman was regularly winning the East African Safari Rally in one and probably accounted for its attraction to sundry young aviators.

Fareastdriver
26th Dec 2013, 13:17
Luftwaffe (supposedly) forbade their young "Prunes" to drive.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the Skodas. Faily straightfoward construction and handling. It was the Tatra that decimated the German High Command in the East. Lightweight constuction with a 3.0 litre air-coolled in the rear. We can all remember what a VW was like as it jacked up its rear end and went into mega-oversteer; think what Tatra could do.

Rommel had a cabriolet as his staff car in Africa. I have only ever seen one; in Rhodesia in the fifties.

Google Image Result for http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Tatra_T_77a.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Tatra_T_77a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_77&h=578&w=713&sz=83&tbnid=9rqsZOWV6MRWjM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=119&zoom=1&usg=__Uf89xrmchMYdWKvDp2CXASytr4U=&docid=nVmLK30zSPUitM&hl=en-GB&sa=X&ei=pTe8UvLNFey07QbOvoCICw&ved=0CFEQ9QEwBw)

Danny42C
27th Dec 2013, 02:56
When we settled at GK for the last two years of the tour, I was fresh from my studies at Butzweilerhof, and heartened by my "O" Level in German. So I decided to keep up the good work without interruption. Two possibilities opened to me. That excellent periodical, "Exchange & Mart" (available from NAAFI), threw up a Linguaphone German, the property of a Bank Manager, no less. He was offering it, mint condition, for £10 or so plus P&P.

I took a chance on it. It arrived with the B/M's hope that I would find it very useful in my posting (for of course it was addressed to a BFPO in Germany). It is about two feet from me as I write: it is one of those possessions that I'll never lose (also the 6-inch ruler from my school Geometry Set - and that's going back some). It was as described; the books had never been opened, the discs (78s, shellac) unscratched, perfect. Off we went: ("Hier sind wir in DeutchLand - in DeutchLand spricht man Deutche....usw"). I got my moneysworth out of it.

This was useful, but there was a far better idea coming. The RAF couldn't afford to provide us with a RC Chaplain (although GK had a CE one on site). But they'd found an excellent substitute. Pater Gregor Eyles hailed originally from Ulm (Bavaria). He was a Franciscan friar (or to be exact, a "Cappuchiner") - so called on account of the big cowl atop the brown habits they wore - (the Capuchin monkey and your "cappuchino" from Starbucks are so named as the colour is supposed to be the same [Wiki]).

His monastery was just over the Dutch border at Waterschleyde. Originally they had been in Germany, but it seems that in the late nineteenth century they'd got up Bismarck's nose and he'd thrown the Order out of Prussia (as it then was). They'd set up over the border in Holland temporarily, with the intention of moving back when things got better. But: "Rein ne dure que le provisoire" (Nothing lasts like the temporary) - they were there yet.

Pater Gregor must have been on some sort of retainer from the RAF for his services to us (doing this sort of thing was right up a Franciscan's street: it was not an "enclosed" Order). A very friendly, white haired old monk, 60+ at a guess, he spoke faultless English (why, oh why, didn't we ever ask how he learned it ?) He filled the Chaplain gap perfectly. I think the RAF sent over a car every Sunday morning to pick him up. He often had lunch with us on Sundays, and hearing of my ambition to improve my German conversational skills, made a proposal.

How would it be if I were to go over to Waterschleyde one evening a week, and spend a couple of hours with the friars ? We might both learn a lot from it. Naturally, they'd want no money for this. If I liked the idea, he'd see if he could clear it with his Abt. I did and he could (I suspect the Abt , a wise old bird, shrewdly reckoned that his friars would learn far more English than I ever would German). We closed on the deal, choosing Mondays (or another day if my watches conflicted).

Pater Gregor was one jump ahead of his Abbot. He always picked as my interlocutor one who knew no word of English, so that it would be "sink or swim" for me. Usually it was Pater Rolf, a huge jovial bear of a man who genuinely didn't have a scrap of English. He was the very embodiment of Friar Tuck (he seems to be a historical character, by the way, who started as a Cistercian [white habit] at Fountains Abbey (Ripon), got kicked out for insubordination, [Wiki] and is always depicted in literature (with Robin Hood), in the brown of a Franciscan, although I don't think there is any evidence that he joined the Order).

Of course, I always took a dictionary with me for when I got stuck. But there was a quicker, easier way. Why not use the seven years' hard labour I'd had at school, learning Latin ? (e.g., once I was lost for "law", gave Rolf "lex, legis", he came straight back with "gesetz") Simple, and much easier than hunting around in my old dictionary, which was still in "black-letter" Gothic script. It worked like a charm.

My masterpiece came near the end of these instructional visits (I can't remember how long I kept it up). Fr Rolf told me that the legend of St.Swithun and the 40 days of rain is not generally known in Germany (at least he'd not heard it) : I had to explain the whole story as best I could: how the saintly monk Swithun died in his monastery, having humbly renounced his privilege of burial under the flags of the church, but insisting on a simple grave just outside the walls (where the "sweet rain of heaven" could fall on him from the eaves).

A devotion sprang up to Swithun, miracles were attributed to him, and after a hundred years or so, he was put up for canonisation. Rome put it on the back burner and thought about it for another century or two, then gave the nod. So now his Order (whoever they were) had a Saint on their hands: it was most unseemly that he should lie outside in the cold and the rain instead of behind the High Altar (as is Cuthbert in Durham). They decided to dig him up and bring him in where he belonged.

Doch der Heilige wollte nicht. He was quite comfortable where he was, thank you all the same. So he arranged matters, so that when they got down a foot, a torrent of rain fell and the spoil fell back in. Back at Square One, they waited till it stopped raining, then had another go. Same thing. It does not seem to have occurred to the monks to shore up the hole properly, but they cannot have been very bright anyway, for Swithun had to keep "raining them off" for 40 consecutive days until they got the message and left him alone.

So much for the sacred, now a profane small triumph. Mrs D. took it into her head to bake her own bread. Her mother had always done so, and had passed on the skill to her daughter. All the ingredients could be got from the NAAFI except the yeast (héfe). I was despatched to find some by "local-purchase".

Reckoning that it would be the best bet, I found a "Tante-Emma laden", stated my business and paid for the yeast (only a few pfennige for a few grammes). But this Tante-Emma was curious. "Entschuldigen Sie. mein Herr", she said, "but what nationality are you ?" She knew from my accent that I wasn't German, of course, but did not identify me as British. Some sort of Dutch - Flemish perhaps ?

I chalked one up (and the bread was delicious !)

Goodnight, all.

Danny42C,


Say not the Struggle naught Availeth.

Geriaviator
27th Dec 2013, 15:41
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y503/Oldnotbold/Irvinestownrear_zps6747b2f4.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/Oldnotbold/media/Irvinestownrear_zps6747b2f4.jpg.html)

Together for eternity, the crew of Sunderland ML743 rest in Irvinestown churchyard, a few miles from their wartime base at Castle Archdale. They were among the scores of airmen who lost their lives in the Donegal mountains.

COASTAL COMMAND fought countless bitter battles in the Bay of Biscay, and the bravery of the strike crews ranging across the North Sea from bases such as North Coates, Banff and Dallachy has become legendary. But the airmen patrolling farther north in the Western Approaches, and their German adversaries, shared a deadly opponent in the Atlantic weather. Heinkels and Sunderlands, Catalinas and Kuriers alike met fiery ends on the mist-shrouded mountains of Ireland.

Aircraft from Castle Archdale and other bases in Northern Ireland flew far out to sea for day after day, month after month, many airmen seeing little more than the grey Atlantic wastes glimpsed through a scudding cloudbase. As very few if any of the Coastal crews are left, and as this 70th anniversary of the Battle of the Atlantic draws to its close, over the next few weeks I shall humbly try to tell some of their stories as they were told to me.

Danny42C
27th Dec 2013, 17:29
Geriaviator,

Welcome back ! The first pic is truly humbling - tells us what War is really about, long after the guns fall silent. On my two transatlantic voyages, I remember how comforting we found the sight of our lone Sunderland or Catalina, dawn to dusk patrolling the seas round the convoy like an alert sheepdog guarding his flock, Aldis flickering as he exchanged signals with the Naval escort.

And how desolate we felt on the third (?) day, when we'd got out of range and our only protection was a destroyer (or two), spending most of its time trying to stand on its nose in the swell (or buried in it !).

And the joy on the fifth day, when we'd crossed the gap and the RCAF (and USAAC on the way back ?) came within range and took over, staying with us till Halifax.

We're standing by all agog for your stories in the New Year.... Cheers, Danny

MPN11
27th Dec 2013, 18:59
In those days, Danny42C, I suspect a trans-Atlantic crossing was a cure for constipation.

clicker
27th Dec 2013, 20:29
MPN11,

With some airline food served that's still in case I believe.

camlobe
28th Dec 2013, 01:55
Hoping that all my fellow crew room companions had an enjoyable festive Christmas. Have to be two five pence pieces this time, run out of 10p pieces. Still works out to be two bob in real money.

Dave Wilson,
I have also been told that the Trabby's bodywork was non-conventional, a hardboard or paper mâché type material. Is it true I wonder?

Danny,
Impressed with your multilingual skills. I get found out whenever I try my hand at language murder, the recipient knowing I am UK based (the eyes invariably saying 'englaise' or maybe something less repeatable).

Geriaviator,
I look forward to reading these gentlemen's reminiscences with great interest.

Halton (contd)
Following the successful completion of our "hack 'n' bash", we moved on to the serious business of jet engines, the theory. For those of you who may not be conversant with jet engine theory, it is actually very simple. The four 'cycles' are the same as a Diesel engine with "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" and differs from a petrol engines cycles only in that there is no requirement for sparks to continuously ignite the fuel/air mix. In a Diesel engine, and in a jet engine, the fuel is continuously ignited by the heat of the incoming air being heavily compressed. The "suck" and "squeeze" is accomplished by the compressor section. This may be of a centrifugal or axial configuration, or a combination of both. The earliest British Whittle engines were equipped with centrifugal compressors. The earliest German BMW engines in Me 262's were equipped with axial flow compressors. As the air is drawn in and forced through the compressor section, it is accelerated and compressed. This fast, pressurised hot air is then introduced into the combustion chamber or multiple external chambers where the fuel is mixed with the air and combusts. This produces very hot, very fast, high pressure exhaust gasses which are directed through the turbine section, rotating the turbine. This is the "bang". If the engine is a turboprop, then an additional separate turbine will connect to a propeller. If the engine is a turboshaft for a helicopter, then an additional separate turbine will connect to a shaft driving a gearbox for rotors. The hot gases are then exhausted out of a jet pipe. This is the "blow". The main turbine section is solidly connected to the compressor section (imagine a bobbin), this being known as a spool, and the exhaust gas energy rotates the main turbine section, and in turn, the compressor. Add more fuel, spool turns faster. Like a Diesel engine, to turn it off, shut off the fuel supply. To start the engine, first it must be rotated to a speed sufficient to allow continuous combustion of the fuel. This is accomplished with cartridges, external air start, or electric motor. Once that speed is attained, fuel is added and a spark torch ignition (old school) or a high energy ignition spark (modern) is supplied for starting only, similar in principle to heater plugs on Diesel engines. Once the fuel/air mix has ignited, the combustion of the fuel/air mix is a continuous, self-sustaining action until the fuel supply is cut off or runs out.

There. Now we are all RAF jet engine genius's. Well, not quite, but hopefully now, everyone has a basic understanding of the operation of a gas turbine jet engine.

The theory continues into ever increasing depth and detail. The initial part is methods of construction and materials (sorry, having to do everything here through memory as the original training notes are somewhere "safe"???). We are taught about some of the exotic alloys used in these engines, and are awestruck to find out that all modern civil and military engines have their 'hot' sections of turbines and nozzle guide vanes operating within an environment so hostile that the gasses passing through them are hundreds of degrees hotter than the melting points of the metals used. So how come they don't melt, we ask? That will come later we are told. I don't remember being told about some of the less desirable aspects of some light alloys. The main cases of the Viper engine contained radioactive Thorium.

Although I had passed my driving test at the first attempt at the age of 17, I was now almost 20 and still without my own transport. In the late '70's, I have no recollection of the easy finance the youngsters of today access without difficulty. Unless you were fortunate enough to have wealthy parents, or had been a recipient of some favourite Aunt's bequeathed gift, you generally had to wait until you had worked hard enough to earn the money to buy a car or motorbike. And even then, it would be very second hand. I consider myself to have been fortunate as I had built up a reasonable little kitty in my Bank Account over the previous five years. Now seemed a good time to put it to use. Choice was wide and varied from the smallest Mini through very rough MG's, and any other car in my price bracket. I had over 600 Pounds saved, but didn't want to 'blow the lot' on a car only. There was still road tax and insurance, which as a 19 year old was a bit steep. I was offered a number of cars which were excellent candidates, from Austin 1800 Land Crabs and Vauxhall Viva HA's to a very tempting Ford Capri 1600 GT for just under my total savings. In the end, I decided to be sensible, for the sake of my sanity, licence and pocket, and settled on a delightful ten year old, one previous owner (lady teacher) Wolesley Hornet Mk III in two-tone grey. This was the model with 'hidden' door hinges, 1000 cc 'A' series engine, and vertical 'remote' gear change. The interior smelt like a proper car with leather seats and walnut dash. The Hornet was based on the Austin 7, later known worldwide as the Mini, and shared the extended body shell with the Riley Elf. The extension was at the rear, and incorporated longer rear wings, extended boot floor, and a proper boot lid. And, of course, being a Wolesley, it had an illuminated grill badge, "Wolesley, the only car with its name in lights" I think the advert went.

During the 1960's, motor racing was widespread and popular in the UK. There were various classes, covering everything from saloon racing (the fore-runner of today's British Touring Car racing) to formula 1. Mini's were extremely popular in many aspects of Motorsport, from Rallying to saloon racing. As can be imagined, there was very little difference technically between the racing Mini's. However, on the longer straights, the racing Hornets and Elfs always managed to pull away from the Mini's, and no one could understand why. Until the early 1980's. Ford were developing a new hatchback, and after considerable wind tunnel testing, someone 'tried something'. This 'something' made a massive difference in drag reduction. Bear in mind, for many decades, manufacturers have continually looked to reduce drag in order to make their car more economic than any rivals. The differences are usually measured in tenths of a mile per gallon. Well, this 'something' made a difference measured in whole units. Hence, the new front wheel drive ford Escort did not come as a hatch, but as a 'booted hatch'. The boot extension worked by drawing the airflow down smoothly over the rear windscreen, thereby creating a much smaller region of disrupted airflow behind the car. The Hornet and Elf benefited from this design idea, but of course, it was designed that way for looks only.

Following our introduction to basic jet engine theory, we are given an engine type to relate our newfound knowledge to, the Rolls Royce Dart. We would get to know this engine more fully than anything else in our lives up to that point.

And this satisfies one of my lifetime wishes, but I'll explain later.

Camlobe


Suck, squeeze, bang, bang, bang...got a surge, Chiefy.

Geriaviator
28th Dec 2013, 10:12
Thank you Danny, I had hoped to post earlier but this year proved quite eventful. I'm sure Camlobe and ancient grease-monkeys like myself will know not to fix it if it isn't broke, and that old hydraulic systems are best left alone. The Geriaviator Mk. 1 has an inherent design fault which was bound to restrict the flow. It is many years out of warranty and parts are very hard to come by. Thankfully an expert plumber was on hand, so to speak, even though the unit will be subject to regular inspections :ooh:
Back shortly!

ricardian
28th Dec 2013, 10:36
Reading of the Berlin Airlift earlier in this thread I though folk might find this web page (http://www.16va.be/gabriel_part1_eng.html) interesting

MrWoollie
29th Dec 2013, 03:55
There's a coincidence.
Just this week was at a christmas party and met a very sprightly 90 year old Jack who in 1943 was part way through a mechanical apprenticeship when he met an old school chum who was flashing the dosh around a bit. Mate got a fiver or something for joining the TA. Jack thought this joining up malarkey sounded pretty good, and because of his apprentice time was selected as Flight Engineer material in the RAF. Had an eyesight issue that precluded pilot so went off to do his FE training.
Way it worked was when you arrived you went alternate week to Bomber Command then Coastal Command then Bomber Command and so on. He was lucky and ended up in CC and spent 1943-45 flying B-24 out of various places doing convoy protection and U-boat hunting. Mainly based in Northern Ireland. Very interesting stories.
Good to meet another one in excellent health and mind. Suggested he have a look at PPRUNE.

BEagle
29th Dec 2013, 07:33
Ulm (Bavaria).

That would upset many of my colleagues in Ulm, Danny! Because although Neu-Ulm is indeed in Bavaria, Ulm lies on the other side of the Donau and is therefore in the state of Baden-Württemberg. No doubt you recall 'Ich habe in Ulm, um Ulm und Ulm herum gebummelt'......

To start the engine, first it must be rotated to a speed sufficient to allow continuous combustion of the fuel. This is accomplished with cartridges, external air start, or electric motor.

The Jumo 004 as fitted to the Me-262 had another method. If you look at the intake bullet, you will see a hole with a small ring inside. The intake bullet actually contains the 10hp 2-stroke petrol-engined starter motor. Normally this starter motor was itself started with a small electric motor, but, if that failed, a brave member of the ground crew would pull on the ring, which was part of the back-up cable start mechanism for the 2-stroke motor (think British Seagull outboard...only probably more reliable). This was shown to me once, but not on a live engine! I imagine the groundcrew chap would leg it sharpish once the starter motor fired though!

mikehallam
29th Dec 2013, 09:32
It was a Riedel flat twin two-stroke, permanently mounted I believe.

Went with the Messerschmitt Club (bubble car that is) to visit WingCo. Wallis some years back. He showed us all his collection and it included some of these engines.
Told us he'd adapted one early post war to drive a small motor boat - as you may know he was into all things speedy.

mike hallam.

BEagle
29th Dec 2013, 10:24
Told us he'd adapted one early post war to drive a small motor boat - as you may know he was into all things speedy.



It would have been even speedier if fitted with a Jumo 004! Blauvogel, perhaps?

longer ron
29th Dec 2013, 10:33
It would have been even speedier if fitted with a Jumo 004! Blauvogel, perhaps?

But not for very long :)

Danny42C
29th Dec 2013, 20:49
MPN11,

Your #4904: This was particularly the case when there was a flurry of signals, and an escort would go racing off to investigate something suspicious which your aircraft had seen ! (and you grabbed your lifejacket just in case)......D.

BEagle,

Should've checked ! He said it was Bavaria. Calls to mind: "Bier aus Bavaria/Is gut fur Malaria/Is gut fur das Hexe/Und darum.....(forgotten the rest ! [mach'n wir Schluss ?])

I like your: 'Ich habe in Ulm, um Ulm und Ulm herum gebummelt' - hadn't heard that one...D.

Cheers, both, Danny.

Danny42C
29th Dec 2013, 22:58
Like all owners of new, shiny cars, I found washing the 403 a pleasure (that soon wears off). At the bottom of Bruton St. in GK, there was a row of garages (but we didn't have one, the car stood at the kerb outside the house in all weathers). And on the end of the row was an outside tap - but you had to buy the hose and connection yourself.

The hose was no problem; I measured the threaded outside diameter of the tap with infinite care - call it "x" mm - and went into town to an ironmonger. There I produced my bit of paper with "x" mm on it, half expecting a "Four Candles" situation to develop, as this was soon after our arrival and my technical German rudimentary.

But the man in the dust coat cottoned-on at once: "Ah, drei-viertel zoll" ("three-quarter inch !") said he, turned round, picked the item off the shelf and laid it on the counter ("3/4 Inch", it said on the box). How on earth did they come to be using Imperial Measures ? How far did it go ? (don't know).

On another occasion, I bought a small gold watch, with a Milanese pattern gold lace band, for Mrs D. The strap was about 5mm too long for her slender wrist, we left it with the jeweller to be shortened, and collected it a few days later. It now fitted perfectly, but to my surprise they handed over the tiny scrap of removed gold, carefully wrapped in tissue paper.

"Vielen Dank", I said, "but this is no use to me - it may be to you - keep it". They were genuinely horrified. "One day", they said, "this may be the price of a meal for you - you must take it." We keep it still.

Most Sundays, we heard Mass in the Camp RC chapel, but on one occasion we went to a church in GK, only to find a procedure which might have dated back to the Middle Ages. The congregation was divided: men and boys in the pews on the left side of the aisle, women and girls on the right. This was "enforced" by a Beadle, in an imposing cloak of office, and with a staff with a very substantial wooden ball on top.

He patrolled up and down the aisle, silently separating mixed groups of shocked newcomers by gently indicating with his staff. I suppose if he met actual resistence, the massive ball on top could spell the message out more firmly and secure compliance, but we didn't see it used. I do not know how wide these "segregation" practices were: in most of the churches we visited, the congregation all packed together as at home.

The first harbingers of the liturgical changes introduced by Vatican II had appeared: The Credo and Paternoster, hitherto intoned in Latin by the celebrant alone, were now said in German by the whole congregation.

One of our officers, an "Other Denominations" (Methodist I think), was friendly with a Lutheran Pastor in town. His friend approached him one day, rather perplexed. He had found this in his Collection Plate: it was plainly sterling - but what was it ? Our chap recognised it at once, it was a £1 "BAF" (made a change from trouser buttons, anyway).

These were "British Armed Forces Currency" notes - last isued in '48, IIRC - and up till then used to pay our troops so that they could buy from the NAAFI; (it was all they were allowed to take) and pay Mess bills, etc. In this way German civilians couldn't clear the NAAFI of our duty-free cigarettes, then make huge future profits (by stacking up with small valuable goods like Zeiss binoculars and Leica cameras for future resale), as cigarettes were then the sole currency in a ruined Germany (the Reichmark being almost valueless).

Some crafty British worshipper had palmed this useless scrap of obsolete paper onto the Pastor: our officer, realising what had happened, for very shame, gave the Pastor Dm 10 in exchange for the BAF (I hope he kept it - now collectors pay good money on e-bay for them).

A Happy New Year to all my readers !

Danny42C.

There's nowt so queer as folk.

26er
30th Dec 2013, 08:29
iirc BAVS were still in use in Berlin in the early seventies.

Fareastdriver
30th Dec 2013, 09:02
gave the Pastor Dm 10 in exchange for the BAF (I hope he kept it - now collectors pay good money on e-bay for them).


Not an awful lot; really.

15 X MINT UNUSED MILITARY/ARMED FORCES BANKNOTES. | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-X-MINT-UNUSED-MILITARY-ARMED-FORCES-BANKNOTES-/170622821072?pt=UK_Coins_Banknotes_GL&hash=item27b9e9a2d0#ht_6611wt_922)

Yamagata ken
30th Dec 2013, 11:38
Danny

Your Imperial threads have got a lot further from blighty than Germany. A few years ago I refurbed a mixing machine in my partner's factory. It is about 40-50 years old. I needed to replace some bolts, and my metric set weren't going to fit. After a little bit of investigation it turned out the machine was entirely Whitworth. I haven't met Whitworth since I gave up on British motorcycles in the late sixties. The bizarre part is they all have metric sized heads.

The building industry here is also standardised on Whitworth. I needed them when I replaced some guttering.

There's nowt so queer as folk.

MPN11
30th Dec 2013, 12:02
My father worked in the hand tool business (sales management) and during school holidays I used to help him set up displays at wholesalers. I was therefore fully indoctrinated into the wonderful world of BA, Whit, Metric and AF. Indeed, I still have rolls of spanners (OE and Ring) covering most sizes and specifications from adjusting prosthetics on a spider to ... quite large things. :cool:

Fareastdriver
30th Dec 2013, 12:18
I still have rolls of spanners (OE and Ring) covering most sizes

So have I. It's a big spanner with a worm drive and wheel built into the business end.

I also picked up a universal screwdriver when I was in the States. It's a shaped weight with a long handle on it.

DHfan
30th Dec 2013, 12:39
A further morsel from my bottomless pit of useless information.

For some strange reason, BSP is the international standard for pipework (except in the USA) and despite galloping metrication there don't appear to be any moves afoot to replace it.

MPN11
30th Dec 2013, 13:09
So have I. It's a big spanner with a worm drive and wheel built into the business end.
I also picked up a comprehensive screwdriver when I was in the States. It's a shaped weight with a long handle on it.

Philistine!! :eek:

My father used to spend an hour finding the exact size spanner, socket or screwdriver for a simple 5-minute task. I did not inherit his pedantry, just the tools :p

*ahem* I seem to have taken us a bit off-topic. Sorry, folks :uhoh:

Fareastdriver
30th Dec 2013, 13:14
When Fords changed over from AF to mm I had to throw away my old imperial adjustable and buy a metric one.

ricardian
30th Dec 2013, 13:31
My late uncle was a turner/fitter at RAE Bedford and was of the opinion that metrication was encouraged by Guest, Keen & Nettlefold in order to produce a whole new batch of orders....

Geriaviator
30th Dec 2013, 15:46
The fall of France and the German acquisition of bases along the French coast forced British shipping to route from Liverpool and Scotland around the north coast of Ireland, which swiftly became a U-boat hunting ground. There are more liners on the seabed off Malin Head than anywhere else in the world, the victims of two World Wars, and Churchill wrote later that the U-boat threat worried him more than anything else.

The big difference between the two World Wars was the neutrality of Eire, which to this day refers to the 1939-1945 conflict as the Emergency. Saorstat Eireann, the Irish Free State, took no part in the war, and the thousands of Irishmen who enlisted and fought so bravely were blacklisted when they returned home, although earlier this year the Irish Government apologised to their families. Airmen who landed in Eire were interned, although Britons and Americans were released, usually with their aircraft if they were serviceable. The bodies of Service aircrew were retrieved by the Irish Army for handover with full military honours at the Border.

With Eire territory off limits, Northern Ireland became the key platform for the Battle of the Atlantic, Churchill saying later that he had always considered the U-boats as the greatest danger facing the country. British and Canadian escort vessels would turn around at the vast Londonderry naval base, and the RAF would patrol the convoy routes as far as aircraft range permitted. Air Marshal Harris would not release Lancasters and Halifaxes to Coastal Command, so there was a large gap in the middle of the Atlantic.

In the early days Coastal Command’s resources were limited, and Bomber Command concentrated on Germany. In 1940 Ansons and even Tiger Moths operated from Limavady, Ballykelly and Aldergrove airfields in Northern Ireland. However, U-boat commanders would dive at the first sight or sound of an aircraft, which even if unarmed might bring down the wrath of a patrolling destroyer. They would be severely restricted at three knots when submerged, against up to 15 knots on the surface. The flying boat bases on Lough Erne opened in 1941.

Later came war-weary Whitleys and Wellingtons, Hudsons, and eventually the U-boats’ nemesis, the Liberator, which closed the Atlantic gap. From Ballykelly, where the runway was extended over a railway level crossing to obtain the necessary length for the Libs, 120 Sqn became the top-scoring anti-sub squadron, working with the vast naval base at Londonderry some 20 miles away. But the early crews faced the weather and the Kriegsmarine in obsolescent aircraft with few aids to navigation.

Pom Pax
30th Dec 2013, 15:52
My Thai mill manager told me the workshop foreman was complaining that the Japanese steel he was being supplied with was not as good as British steel. We eventually realised he was making his orders in imperial but was receiving the metric equivalent which was generally thinner.
Which reminds me of a sixties TV comedy "Never mind the quality just feel the width".

MPN11
30th Dec 2013, 16:03
MPA ... my late father-in-law managed to wheedle his way out of a reserved occupation in WW2 to become a Nav on Sunderlands. Indeed, the one at Hendon (ML824) was 'his' aircraft (NS-Z) and he was invited to the unveiling.

Sadly it was brief flying career, and he was recalled to civvy street (being a civil engineer) to focus on "Rebuilding Britain" after only a year or so. Such irony - the family ended up living in a Pre-Fab for some years! :)

Danny42C
31st Dec 2013, 00:25
Geriaviator,

Your #4925 refers: gives me an opportunity to retell a tale I think I may have told long ago. (From "Readers Digest", IIRC).

On the ferry Holyhead/Dublin one wartime evening, an American reporter is enjoying a last cigarette; he is joined at the taffrail by an athletic young man in sports jacket and flannels. The newcomer's accent shows that he is going home. The following dialogue ensues:

"Why don't you people allow the British the use of your Channel Ports ?" ......"We hate the British"...... "But do you want Hitler to win this war ?" . ...."Of course not !"......"So what are you doing about it ?"......."I fly a Hurricane !"

Sort that one out !

Happy New Year to you all, Danny.

Geriaviator
31st Dec 2013, 09:37
Yes Danny, I understand it only too well and in preparing my current ramblings I have had to work hard to avoid Irish politics! In fact there was considerable co-operation as will be seen in future postings.

Apropos the measurements mixup, I seem to recall an American B737 crew who thought they had been refuelled in US gallons when in fact they had lbs (pounds). They discovered this when all went quiet at 28,000 ft. Fortunately the captain was a glider pilot as well and made a brilliant dead-stick landing at an airport 40 miles away.

May we all be well fuelled in a peaceful New Year, and may we all have the endurance to see in the next one. Best wishes.

Chugalug2
31st Dec 2013, 21:29
Danny:-
"this may be the price of a meal for you - you must take it."
My last job before retiring was with Virgin Express, based in Brussels and holding a Belgian AOC. One of their pilots explained the Belgian philosophy to me over a beer (in English I'm afraid Danny, linguistic ability was never my strong point, unlike you).
"They either invade us from the East or from the West, either way you have to do the same thing, bury all your valuables in the back garden and pray that some day you'll be able to dig them up again".
Not wishing to pre-empt the promised referendum, I do however think that this is a crucial difference between the Brits and our Continental neighbours (not showing my hand too much there I hope!). They have nearly all been thus invaded within living memory, or made a bob or two by having their supposed neutrality made useful to both sides. The Brits came close, as they have many times before, to being invaded but were reprieved, as they have been many times before. So never mind burying it, let's spend it!
Whichever philosophy is the better, I couldn't say. I merely make the point that they are very different.
Happy New Year everyone!

Danny42C
1st Jan 2014, 02:53
Chugalug,

Your quote:

"same thing, bury all your valuables in the back garden and pray * that some day you'll be able to dig them up again". (my asterisk)

In the '42 Burma retreat, a Squadron had to abandon their Messes and get out quick. Their quick-thinking Padre buried all the Mess stock of spirits in the Mess garden. A son of the soil, he knew how to hide a burial - the Japs never found it.

Two years later the Squadron returned; remarkably enough they came back to the same airstrip. The stuff was all there, some of the labels had come off, but a small tasting session remedied that.

Last I heard of the Padre, he'd made Monsignor. Long dead now, of course. (I've forgotten the name). * Shows there is efficacy in prayer !

Happy New Year to you and yours, and to all PPRuNers (active and passive),

Danny.

Geriaviator
1st Jan 2014, 10:32
I thank Ian and Denis, who prefer not to post, for their messages:
"I wonder if you were thinking of an Air Canada 767 out of Montreal? When it was refuelled there was an error in thinking lbs versus kg or vice versa.They ran out of fuel around Winnipeg but dead sticked it into the old WW2 training airfield at Gimli, Manitoba. This episode was known thereafter as The Gimli Glider".

Taphappy
1st Jan 2014, 13:07
Danny 42C, Chugalug2,MPM11 etc.

Happy New Year to you all. Lang may your lum reek!!!

Danny42C
1st Jan 2014, 17:53
Taphappy,

And yours reek e'en langer ! (there must be an exact Scottish equivalent, but as an ethnic Irishman [one of the Scots who could swim]), that's the best I can do...D. ('ware incoming !)

Geriaviator,

Yes, it was Gimli. Didn't the 767 end up on its nose (à la 491), but they and the pax were all right ? And weren't the glider people (but fortunately no gliders) on the runway, and had to abandon their picnics and make a run for it !....D.

Smudgsmith,

I refer to your #4000 p.200:

"Well done Danny, I expect you will be posting 5000 too. I certainly hope to be reading your 5000. Keep going, only a thousand to go".

How time flies ! But a bit of mental arithmetic: we reached 4000 Posts in 4 years: we've knocked off the last 1,000 in six months. Now this acceleration is entirely due to the policy of our Moderators, who've let us wander off in all directions for as long as we like, only providing we wander back. So let's hear it for them, chaps: "For they're all Jolly Good Fe-ellows...and so say all of us !"

"Gratitude", said La Rochfoucald, "is the lively expectation of favours to come" (perish the thought)....D.

It's been said before - but: "Happy New Year", folks,

Danny.

MPN11
1st Jan 2014, 19:45
A very special "Happy New Year" to Danny42C, and another one to the rest of you (including the Mods, of course).

May your 2014 be marked by good health and good giggles for you and yours.

Danny42C
1st Jan 2014, 21:44
One bright weekend morning, we packed into the car and set out for the Möhnesee. This was almost a pilgrimage for every RAF family in RAF(G). It was around 100 miles from the Clutch stations, a gentle two-hour drive across the country in full summer bloom.

Apart from the historical aspect, it was a popular picnic spot for the locals: they had turned out in full force. The lake looked about half full; around the lakeside the place rang with the happy laughter of children, the sun blazed down, the snack stalls on the river banks were doing roaring trade.

From the riverside below the Dam I looked across its face. The colour change in the concrete clearly marked the repaired centre section; even more impressive was the huge gouge carved out of the river bed by the force of water that May night eighteen years before when the Dam had been breached by Gibson and his merry men.

On the top of the dam, we looked out up the lake along the line of the bombing run. In the bright sunlight it was not easy to visualise the scene that night, the brimming lake shining under the full moon, the skies full of the roar of the Lancasters as they thundered round the valley before turning in and going down to fifty feet above the water for the one attempt that each aircraft could make.

We strolled across to the mid-point of the Dam, the exact aiming-point. Looking up at the two flanking towers, you could see what perfect gun platforms they must have made for the defending flak gunners to draw an almost head on bead on the Lancasters as they came in S&L towards them. With this in mind, dubbleyew eight's Post #4107 p.206 is of enormous relevance. If the old Ukranian's story was true, it may well have minimised 617's losses, which were bad enough in all conscience (8 of 17 Lancasters and 53 dead from 119 of the finest bomber crews in Britain ).

The question of the efficacy of the raid has been hotly debated ever since; a whole host of revisionist historians having concluded that it was simply another case of "C'ést magnifique, mais ce n'ést pas la guerre". I'm in no way qualified to express an opinion on this, but may still offer one. We were told that you need a ton of water to make a ton of steel, and that Krupp and the other steelmakers of the Ruhr were dependent on the Möhne water for this.

I can find little information on the actual effect on German steel production from this cause alone, most commentators giving more weight to the loss of hydro-electric power and the diversion of construction plant and labour from other urgent tasks as being the main fruits of the operation. But the loss of this water must have been very serious for the German war economy.

And from the point of view of the ordinary Briton, this spectacular raid was an enormous morale-booster, coming as it did together with the good news of final victory in North Africa. The previous November, Churchill had said of that campaign: "It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning". Victory in Europe would be two years ahead yet, but we were "on our way". The British bulldog had his tail well up (I know that's not a good metaphor, but never mind).

The excited cries of the children playing were growing fainter as the afternoon wore on, and it would soon be Mary's bedtime. We drove gently back home to GK in the warm evening sunshine: it had been a memorable day's outing.

(This may interest any who have just finished watching the "Dambusters" tonight - Chan.5).

Goodnight, everyone,

Danny42C..


We shall remember them.

Fareastdriver
2nd Jan 2014, 11:25
When Mickey Martin took over 38 Group in 1968 he had only been running it for a few days when Chunky Lord and I deposited a Whirwind helicopter, XR 478, quite violently on the ground outside 38 Grp HQ as he was arriving for work He was then the first to greet us as we waded out of the wreckage.

As a VIP pilot I flew him quite often and later when I was on Pumas I had the opportunity again when he was CinC Germany. The area was around the dams so I picked one, flew around a hill and settled flying across the water towards the towers at 145knots and 50 ft., precisely. (Radalts. makes it easy)

"Does that look familiar, Sir?" quoth I.
He turned to me with a grin. "Not really. Wrong bloody dam."

Warmtoast
2nd Jan 2014, 11:43
Danny42

we packed into the car and set out for the Möhnesee. This was almost a pilgrimage for every RAF family in RAF(G).

It was indeed. I took this photo of the dam in 1973, but struggled then as now when I examine the photo to see where repairs to the face had been made, although to be fair the photo was taken thirty-years after repair and assume the brick facing has weathered over the years.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/MoumlhneSee1973_1280x865_zps36672918.jpg

Geriaviator
2nd Jan 2014, 14:21
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y503/Oldnotbold/irvinestownfront_zpsb000d743.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/Oldnotbold/media/irvinestownfront_zpsb000d743.jpg.html)
When the first fatalities occurred near Castle Archdale the congregation at Irvinestown Church, four miles away, gave the front quarter of their cemetery to be a plot for fallen Servicemen. In less than two years the plot was filled with aircrew graves, so a similarly sized plot was established at the rear. By war's end this, too, was filled with casualties from the Battle of the Atlantic. Most of these are Commonwealth airmen, UK citizens being taken home to their families.

THERE IS good reason for Ireland being green, and that’s the rainfall. It streams from our grey Atlantic skies, and the clouds shroud the granite Donegal mountains for days on end. This is why the weather took terrible toll of Coastal Command aircrew trying to find their bases after many hours patrolling the Western Approaches. The headstones above bear sad witness.

Nowadays the pocket GPS gives the walker’s position to within a few yards. But 70 years ago radio navigation was of limited use, the radio beacons were low powered with very limited range, and bearings could easily be 20 degrees out, especially at night. Radio waves can be bent as they pass along a coastline, so a bearing may be off by 10 degrees or even more.

The Germans’ long-range Kuriers used an excellent system called Sonne, with one transmitter in Norway, one at Bordeaux and another in Spain. The Kurier could place himself in the triangle formed by these widely spaced beams, obtaining an accurate position to pass to the U-boat packs. The Allies adopted the system after the capture of U-505 in 1944; renamed Consol, it became invaluable for Coastal Command. After the war one of the transmitters was moved to Bushmills in Northern Ireland, where it became Bushmills Consol and was used by transatlantic flights until the 1980s.

In the early years, Allied crews had to rely on dead reckoning, in which the aircraft position is plotted by airspeed, course, and time, backed up by ground features, sun and star sights. But none of these is possible when you’re far out to sea with 20,000ft of cloud above you. During your 10-hour patrol the wind has drifted you in various directions, you may be many miles from your expected landfall, and behind the mist-shrouded coastline the mountains are waiting.

Reader123
2nd Jan 2014, 15:39
It now fitted perfectly, but to my surprise they handed over the tiny scrap of removed gold, carefully wrapped in tissue paper.

"Vielen Dank", I said, "but this is no use to me - it may be to you - keep it". They were genuinely horrified. "One day", they said, "this may be the price of a meal for you - you must take it." We keep it still.
My mother and grandmother (though she is long dead) lived in Germany until 1946. Having indeed used cigarettes as currency:


In this way German civilians couldn't clear the NAAFI of our duty-free cigarettes, then make huge future profits (by stacking up with small valuable goods like Zeiss binoculars and Leica cameras for future resale), as cigarettes were then the sole currency in a ruined Germany (the Reichmark being almost valueless).they too would have understood the value of your gold. I think it probably takes a long time to get over the 'joys' of living in a barter economy where gold and cigarettes are almost your only currency.

Chugalug2
2nd Jan 2014, 18:37
Wikki echoes the default conclusion (as with Main Force) that this was much ado about little that did not justify the cost to the RAF:-
Operation Chastise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise)
Given that the RAF itself has doubts about both that is hardly surprising. The thing I find surprising is that the Germans were allowed to effect repairs unhindered. As Wikki says, a high level follow up raid at the height of the repairs would have sustained the effects of the raid for far longer (anyway, agriculture took until the 50's to recover).
Like Warmtoast I visited the dam, though in the early 60's. I couldn't really make out the repaired section clearly even then. I'm sure if it had been our dam we wouldn't have replicated all the fancy cantilevered archwork at the top (for carrying the roadway?), but reverted to RSJ's etc. Vorsprung durch Technik, no doubt.
I watched the film on TV the other night. Despite all the 'issues' about it disclosed in this Forum, I enjoyed it yet again.
Another portrayal of course was this one:-

carling black label dambusters - YouTube

camlobe
3rd Jan 2014, 04:32
Firstly, may I take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to you all for the New Year.

Although I have never seen the Mohne, Eder or Sorpe dams (pictures excepted) I clearly remember on one flight, looking through the Dakota windshield at the passing water a few feet below followed by the ramparts of the Derwent dam. A very moving part of the flight which heavily renewed my respect for those who had gone to the Ruhr in May 1943, at night, low level, fired upon, and successfully completed their mission, albeit at horrific cost. (I accept that not all the dams were breeched, but I also accept the mission was successful).

Halton (contd)
As we sit around our crewroom, bloated and content, I must hang my head low. I incorrectly stated that the engine in the Me 262 was of BMW manufacture. I am pleased to see my error was quickly spotted. Never, throughout my life has it been my intention to be inaccurate. Unfortunately, as previously mentioned, the memory bank seems to be suffering some corrosion to its walls, allowing good gen to sift out, only to be replaced by duff gen, which being lighter, sits on top, and is recovered first. I will take this lesson on board and attempt to verify my facts in future.

While enjoying the warm days of summer at Halton, one of our compatriots mentioned his chosen weekend pastime, namely gliding. My curiosity was aroused. After a few minutes, I had learned that the RAF even had its own gliding branch, the RAFGSA, and the nearest base was at RAF Bicester. And the RAF even supplied the transport, and if I remember correctly, the lunch-packs. What was more, it was FREE. Well, I had to have a go at this. The following Saturday, camlobe and another half dozen young and steely-eyed airmen climbed on the Bedford bus and went to have some fun. Upon our arrival, we were made to feel very welcome, and immediately put to work. Laying out the tow cable, extracting the various gliders out of the hangar, cleaning windscreens, and a multitude of other tasks. Although a couple of the lads were less than enthralled, I was fully immersed and enjoying myself, soaking up all information and advice, and happy to be of some small assistance. As the day went on, I started to "get the picture" regarding the ground ops. The various hand signals initially looked like a pseudo-signer at Nelson Mandela's memorial service, but soon made sense, as did the procedure for a launch. "All clear above and behind" followed by the cable slack been taken up, then run with the wingtip for a few paces until the aircraft had left wingman and indeed ground behind. The climb angle looked incredibly steep on the winch launch, but it was a very effective way to get to 500 feet in less than half a mile. (Although the Bicester winch could only get aircraft up to around 500 feet, I believe some modern winches can get aircraft up to over 2000 nowadays. Smudge, can you enlighten us?). Towards the end of the day, our efforts are rewarded with a flight in the 'Barge', or Slingsby T21 Sedburgh. This rather basic, open cockpit machine was constructed in the fashion of the very earliest aircraft, powered or otherwise. There was a wooden structure, glued together, and covered by Cotton fabric. Dope was applied to shrink the cotton tightly onto the wooden structure. Paint then being applied to protect the fabric from the ravages of ultra-violet rays. These same materials, techniques and results that were familiar to many tens of thousands of young boys in their bedrooms, making their early model gliders. And I was about to climb in to a full-size example. I was terrified that my foot/elbow would make a hole through the fabric somewhere, so sat knees together and elbows tight to my side, just precautionary, of course. The wing tips were held up while the tow line slack was taken up, and then...OH, MY GOD. I was immediately overwhelmed by fright and elation at the same time. Certain that I was about to die as we were going up far too steeply, and therefore must be about to crash, coupled with that fantastic pit-of-the-stomach feeling that all young men cherish, acceleration. Although not a macho admission, I am sure I screamed in despair and delight...all the way up. The ever so patient chap flying smiled, as I'm sure he did every weekend. After dipping the nose to release the cable, we gently eased our way around the circuit, no lift coming our way. The small screens in front of each seat did little in the way of deflecting wind blast, my streaming eyes bore proof of this. But they seemed very efficient at deflecting bugs. All too soon, we are on finals, and it suddenly occurs to me, if my left-hand-seater judges it wrong, we can't have another go. But of course, he got it right, as did every other pilot I saw that day, and every other day I went to fly for free at RAF Bicester. A number of years ago, I was told that the chap who was running RAF Bicester gliding club at the time later perished in a gilder, but I am not certain about the details. I'm sure one of my fellow tea drinkers here will probably know the full story.

During our hands-on part of getting to know the Rolls Royce Dart, I spilled some oil onto one of my shoes without noticing. A few minutes later, I bend down to pick up my spanner and am taken aback by the extremely shinny toecap. The technical instructors weren't too concerned about the mirror finish of our footwear, but the Discip staff most certainly were, and we were inspected on the parade ground every morning after breakfast prior to marching down the hill. Camlobe has a cunning plan. After the morning NAAFI break, an empty small milk carton is retained and rinsed out. A small amount of this new wonder shine fluid is decanted into said milk container. The following morning, everyone is on parade. Camlobe breaks ranks (one step rear wards), crouches down to the pile of books and the milk container, takes a finger wipe of the wonder fluid and applies it to the toecaps. Stand up, rejoin the ranks, and wait nervously while Discip Corporals and Sergeants inspect the ranks. The Corporal, who is far nastier than the Sergeant, is reviewing our rank. Oh, no. I shouldn't have been so foolish. Who do I think I am kidding. These people have seen every trick in the book. I am a bloody fool. I should have...he walks past me, and doesn't turn around. I am stupidly elated. A small victory, but it feels massively out of proportion. I even have a smirk on my face. Oh, no, he is coming back. He has never done that before. I am lost. He comes right up to...my friend Shane Hubbard stood right beside me. I am a wreck. I want to be sick. And he goes away again. Shane knew what deceit I was attempting, and as we march off down the hill, we both chuckle under our breath, both knowing how close I was to the brink of disaster. But fools never learn, and my 'wonder fluid" came out every morning for the duration of our time at Halton. But, this little 'time and effort saver' idea of mine almost cost me dear, but more of that later. Without doubt, I saved many man hours polishing, being able to concentrate on other important issues, such as working out who was buying the first round. The only drawback was, leather doesn't appreciate synthetic jet engine oil, in this case, OX38, and the shoes disintegrated soon after leaving Halton.

I had been an active swimmer from an extremely young age, and proficient enough to be Life Guard qualified well before my 13th birthday. The pool at Halton was old but well cared for and clean and I spent a lot of time keeping myself fit with swimming and cross country (thar be hills here, unlike Swinderby). The chap who was the pool caretaker suggested I consider water polo. Never having played, I decided to give it a go. Without a doubt, water polo was the most physically demanding activity I have ever attempted. But, it was also one of the most vicious. I played water polo for RAF Halton a few times, but the scratch injuries and sore eyes put me off for fear of my eyesight.

Camlobe

Splish, splash, I was taken' a bath.

smujsmith
3rd Jan 2014, 09:48
Camlobe,

As you say, winch launching of Gliders was restricted, though I suspect the 500' at Bicester might well have been a restriction of take off run length. In my day when flying at Bicester all launches were Aerotow, usually to 2000'. I suspect your CFI may well have been the late, great Andy Gough, who was well known throughout gliding circles. There was, as I remember, a legal requirement to release from the launch cable, when winch launching, at 1000', I believe this in concern for lower flying aircraft not being able to see the cable whilst passing below. There was a procedure called "Kiteing" however, where, on a nice day with a good headwind, and by prior arrangement with the winch operator, you stayed on the wire at 1000', he then allowed the cable drum to reel out slowly allowing the glider to continue to ascend, just like a kite. I only ever had one such launch, at Syerston, and released the cable at an indicated 2300'. At the time a winch launch was 70p a time. An Aerotow to 2000' would have cost around £7.50 I believe. I did have to buy the winchman a beer or two later.
Hope that helps.

Smudge :ok:

Blacksheep
3rd Jan 2014, 12:48
patrolling the seas round the convoy like an alert sheepdog guarding his flock, Aldis flickering as he exchanged signals with the Naval escort. A bit late to jump in with this tale, but never mind:

My Dad was a Visual Signaller (Bunting Tosser) in HMS Forester, with Canadian Close Escort Group C1 based in Londonderry. Now Dad was a hardened "regular" matelot, not an HO "Hostilities Only" rating and he managed the impressive pitching and rolling of a small ship in the North Atlantic completely impassively. A cold fried egg sliding about his plate in an Atlantic gale was no problem and he'd eat the HO's rations too when they turned green.

Apparently the aircrews found the naval signallers' lamp aiming a bit too slack as they were more accustomed to flashing at larger targets. Someone in Liverpool decided that signallers should be sent off to fly with an aircraft and see for themselves the problem from the aircrew POV. So, next time into Londonderry, while the rest of the crew enjoyed a spot of shore leave, Dad and the other three Bunting Tossers were sent off to do a spot of flying. He clambered aboard the alloted Catalina and settled himself against a bulkhead. As the aircraft taxied out and performed the take-off roll it was just like being afloat. No problem. As soon as they became airborne it was another story - he was violently sick and lay groaning on the floor for the whole trip. And Catalina sorties were very long affairs indeed.

Chugalug2
3rd Jan 2014, 16:27
A good documentary here about Operation Chastise:-


The Dambusters Raid - Full Documentary - YouTube


Any Operation needs a certain amount of luck, ie a lucky hit on the Bismark's rudder etc. Chastise seems to have lacked that necessary ingredient. It took 5 mines to breach the Mohne Dam, another 3 for the Eder. The Sorpe was not breached, and it was known to be the most difficult of the three being of earth rather than masonry construction. It was also the most difficult to attack, as Wallis required the crews to release the weapon by flying along the dam rather than approaching from the lake. In the event, thickening fog over the dam made for a far greater defence than the Wehrmacht ever could, and aircraft had to divert to secondary targets rather than persevere with the Sorpe.
The Sorpe was the Achilles heel of Chastise. If it had been breached then Ruhr production would have been severely affected. As it was it got by, and thanks to a swift and effective response it was soon back to status quo with the repaired Mohne Dam.
None of that means that Chastise should not have happened, but it seems to bring out the same gainsayers as have an agenda with the Strategic Bombing Campaign itself. Terror attacks, poor use of resources, unacceptable loss rates, etc etc. What they can't say is what the situation would have been if the RAF had not gone out night after night bombing German cities. Unhindered, Hitler had enough cards up his sleeve to have made the outcome uncertain to say the least if he had been allowed to play them. As it was he was within months of some and actually launched many V1s and V2s anyway.
I am not surprised that the Army (which still doesn't understand Air Power) and the Navy (which does but only in a Naval scenario) had issues with the CBO, but when the RAF itself has an ambivalent stance to its own Bomber Command campaign, that I cannot understand.
You don't win wars by staying on the defensive, yet Bomber Command was the only one that consistently took the offensive from start to finish of the war. Chastise was merely one example of that, and one which the Royal Air Force should be justly proud of.

MPN11
3rd Jan 2014, 17:01
Well said, Chugalug2. :ok:

In these days of precision bombing from a great height, its sobering to remember that the RAF did what it could at great loss. It was all we had back then to hit back, however effectively or otherwise. And the crews that did it knew they were on a hiding to nothing, and kept on doing it anyway.

Better to something offensive than do bu66er all.

Blacksheep
3rd Jan 2014, 20:13
The business of Air Power is bombing enemy assets - manufacturing, transportation and troop/armour concentrations - and thus reducing their ability to fight. It's all about bombers and moving the mud. Air supremacy helps those fighting on the ground or sea by keeping them free of enemy air attack, but its main purpose is to enable one's own bombers to go about their business unhindered. Some folk have ethical objections to bombing, but warfare isn't ethical. It's all about winning.

Danny42C
3rd Jan 2014, 21:05
Smujsmith,

The name of "Andy Gough" rings a bell. Wasn't it Sgt Gough, and was he ever at GK ? (may be off beam).

I never did any aerotows myself. IIRC, GK didn't have a tug of its own, but borrowed an Auster-sized thing (Heinkel ?) with pilot from a GAF unit somewhere. Although the rule used to be that tug-plus-glider had to have a minimum of 30 tows between them (ie a 5-tow glider pilot must have a 25-tow tug pilot or vice versa), something went wrong. I didn't see it myself, but it seems the glider went way too high, pulling the tail of the tug up and putting the aircraft into the ground. The GAF NCO pilot survived, but was very badly injured. It put rather a pall on the proceedings....D.

Blacksheep,

You never can tell when the dreaded mal d'avion may strike. I threw up once in (or, fortunately, over the side of, a Stearman) after stuffing myself with sweeties. And, one warm afternoon after a good lunch in Valley, I'd been doing repeated mock ground attacks on a gun position somewhere round Barmouth. This involved screwing the Spit around quite a bit to avoid wiping myself off on the nearby hills. When I started to turn green, I gave up before worse happened !....D.

Chugalug,

Thanks for the video - I'm going to enjoy this (and Wiki gives a fair account of "Operation Chastise", too) I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. There have been far too many of these nay-sayers and nit-pickers in these last few decades. With hindsight it is all too easy to dispute the wisdom of any particular policy or operation of war - when you know what happened (or didn't happen) afterwards in consequence.

There was no "silver bullet" that brought down the Third Reich (unlike the Hiroshima bomb, which arguably vindicated Harris's prediction: "People say that aerial bombing alone cannot win a war. I would say that it has not been tried yet, and we shall see").

Instead it finally succumbed to a multitude of blows, some heavy and some light, which cumulatively overwhelmed it. Everything is worth a try in war - for who knows, it may work !

I'm still sure I could see a shade change in the dam concrete when we saw it in bright sunlight in '61 (perhaps it was raining when you saw it, or in dull weather). Trick of the light, possibly ? Cheers,.... D.

Goodnight, all. Danny.

clicker
4th Jan 2014, 14:01
I think Ken Brown's words at the end summed the raid up very neatly. And you can't argue with someone who took part and who lost good friends that night.

If only one could put the raid critics, in fact make that Bomber Commands critics, back in time to 1939. Let them live through the war to May 1943 and then ask "What do you think about the dams raid?". I'm certain it won't be the same reply as they would make today.

I'm glad we fought for our freedom and didn't just sit in defence only.

NutLoose
4th Jan 2014, 14:52
Sadly one of our bombs has just gone off killing one and injuring others

http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224185&d=1388760186

2014 and the allied WW2 bomber offensive is still claiming victims (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?128198-2014-and-the-allied-WW2-bomber-offensive-is-still-claiming-victims)

Euskirchen: Offenbar ein Toter bei Explosion einer Weltkriegsbombe - SPIEGEL ONLINE (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/euskirchen-offenbar-ein-toter-bei-explosion-einer-weltkriegsbombe-a-941702.html)

1 dead as World War II bomb explodes in Germany (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1-dead-world-war-ii-bomb-explodes-germany)

Union Jack
4th Jan 2014, 17:16
You don't win wars by staying on the defensive, yet Bomber Command was the only one that consistently took the offensive from start to finish of the war.

I trust that Chug's reference to "the only one" relates only to the Royal Air Force, recalling that the Royal Navy Submarine Service was constantly on the offensive throughout the Second World War. I'll leave the statistics to others.

Jack

Chugalug2
4th Jan 2014, 18:07
Indeed, Union Jack. By the 'only one' I meant the only RAF Command. Your point is well made that the Silent Service was an essential ingredient in offensive operations from the beginning to the end of the War.

Danny42C
4th Jan 2014, 19:29
Nutloose, (your #4950 refers),

There may be one or two more to come. The following (pinched from the "Der Spiegel" link) paints the picture:

"Im Herbst 1944 hatten die Allierten im Zuge der Operation "Queen" bei zahlreichen Luftangriffen Tausende Bomben über Euskirchen abgeworfen. Nach Angaben der Stadt wurde Euskirchen damals zu rund 75 Prozent zerstört.
Bis heute werden viele Blindgänger unter dem Boden vermutet. In ganz Nordrhein-Westfalen wurden im Jahr 2012 über 700 Bomben geräumt". (underline mine).

Roughly translated by D:

"In the autumn of '44, the Allies, in the course of Operation "Queen", dropped thousands of bombs on Euskirchen during multiple attacks. According to official records about 75% of Euskirchen was destroyed at that time. Even today it is thought that there are many unexploded bombs underground.
In the whole of Northrhein-Westphalia during 2012, over 700 bombs have been dug up".

I don't doubt that there as many or more under London and other cities, waiting to be found.

Danny.

MPN11
4th Jan 2014, 19:39
German bombs were, generally, smaller. We shall survive, as they never grasped the idea of HEAVY bombers until FAR too late.

Tactical aviation appeases the soldiers, Strategic aviation appeals to politicians.

smujsmith
4th Jan 2014, 19:56
Danny,

"The name of "Andy Gough" rings a bell. Wasn't it Sgt Gough, and was he ever at GK ? (may be off beam).

I never did any aerotows myself. IIRC, GK didn't have a tug of its own, but borrowed an Auster-sized thing (Heinkel ?) with pilot from a GAF unit somewhere. Although the rule used to be that tug-plus-glider had to have a minimum of 30 tows between them (ie a 5-tow glider pilot must have a 25-tow tug pilot or vice versa), something went wrong. I didn't see it myself, but it seems the glider went way too high, pulling the tail of the tug up and putting the aircraft into the ground. The GAF NCO pilot survived, but was very badly injured. It put rather a pall on the proceedings....D."

"Warrant Officer A W Gough BEM who founded and for twenty years ran the RAFGSA Centre at Bicester. He was killed when giving an aerobatic display in a Blanik at RAF Brize Norton on 12 June 1982." - Not sure of his service history Danny, but someone will. Certainly gliding could provide its "sixpence/ half crown moments". I remember an Aerotow in an ASK8 (a wood and canvas job, very light, got airborne on a budgies fart) with an estimated 15 knot headwind. As the tug opened its throttle, the prop efflux got me airborne, before all the slack was taken up. As the rope took hold I was around 15 ft altitude and the tug was gently accelerating. Its tail came up, and I, with full forward stick applied could do nothing but hope he got airborne. Although, as an after thought I could have pulled the release. However he came unstuck very quickly, and I enjoyed a smashing 2 hour flight. The tug pilot was a fine chap, well worthy of the beers I plied him with that evening in the bar. I do hope that someone can link Andy Gough to your GK reminiscence, the man was a legend in the RAFGSA.

Smudge :ok:

Union Jack
4th Jan 2014, 20:51
By the 'only one' I meant the only RAF Command. Your point is well made that the Silent Service was an essential ingredient in offensive operations from the beginning to the end of the War.

:ok::ok: on both counts, Chug.

Jack

BEagle
4th Jan 2014, 20:58
IIRC, GK didn't have a tug of its own, but borrowed an Auster-sized thing (Heinkel ?) with pilot from a GAF unit somewhere.

Perhaps a Do 27:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Do27_zpsce424bda.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/Do27_zpsce424bda.jpg.html)

Danny42C
4th Jan 2014, 22:39
BEagle,

Nice pic - looks as if it would make a fine tug - and what is that little thing stuck on behind the tailwheel ? (remember, I have no knowledge of tows and never seen one close-up, and was away from GK when the crash happened).

Could very well have been your Dornier.

Thanks, Danny.

Danny42C
4th Jan 2014, 22:57
Life in Quarters is best remembered as a succession of small incidents. Mary had reached the stage of her first tricyle: we took her down to a toyshop in GK. She went unerringly for one with a flat red wooden seat. ( "Alle kinder lieben rote", said the saleswoman). Naturally she was never allowed out on her own; our house and garden was toddler-escape-proof (we thought).

One day, Mrs D. was busy in the house, Mary playing happily outside with her trike. The (only) garden gate onto Bruton Street had a self-locking catch; you had to operate it with a knob on top. In any case, the catch was far too high on the gate for her to reach up to. But not if she is standing on the seat of her trike ! (we hadn't bargained for this).

A neighbouring officer coming off duty knocked on the door,"I've just seen Mary on her trike making her way down to the Tower. I tried to bring her home in my car, but she flatly refused, saying "I'm going to meet my Daddy". Mrs D jumped in our car and caught her well on the way along the road there. "All right, darling", she said - "we'll go and meet Daddy together". And so they did (we had to tie the garden gate up after that).

***********

One day, our batwoman Julie came to Mrs D. in a state of terror. It appeared that there was a fearful monster of some kind lurking in the cellar laundry room. But Julie had little English, my wife couldn't make head nor tail of it. It was impossible to establish the nature of this threat, apart from the fact that it was alive.

But Mrs D. was a Yorkshire lass and feared no creature. Arming herself with some blunt instrument, she descended the cellar steps to confront the intruder. On the boiler room floor was a harmless young frog, which had hopped in down the steps from the garden. Mrs D. was a country girl: she scooped it up and dropped it in the damp grass outside (frog = frosch, btw).

***********

On one of the last days of our tour, the CH boiler was playing me up, refusing to get going. By then I was quite an experienced stoker. Drastic measures seemed to be called for. I opened the furnace door and surveyed the sullen warm coke. Perhaps if I encouraged it a little ?...Now, there are those, believe it or not, who try to get garden fires and the like going with petrol (and land in A&E). I'm not that daft. But a bit of paraffin should be all right, surely ? - after all a firelighter is only paraffin wax, isn't it ?

I gave it about a quarter of a pint on top. At once, a white cloud issued from the top of the coke, and a malevolent hissing started. This was no place for me to be, I thought.

I just had time to push the furnace door back loosely, duck round the corner into the laundry room and press myself against the wall, when the explosion came. It rocked our end of Bruton Street (people thought there had been an accident in the mines below).

Mrs D. called anxiously from above "Are you all right ?" D. emerged from a cloud of dust and soot below, looking like a Black & White Minstrel, and reassured her.

Curiously, there was very little damage. As I'd merely pushed the furnace door back, but not latched it, it had only slammed hard round against the hinges. But now there was a hairline crack half way across it, in spite of which it seemed to be holding together all right.

It continued to do so until the very morning of our Marching Out. Then it fell apart in two (the bill was Dm10)... Ah well.

Once more, Goodnight all,

Danny42C.


Just my luck !

Geriaviator
5th Jan 2014, 12:02
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y503/Oldnotbold/Catalina_zpsf23d21ab.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/Oldnotbold/media/Catalina_zpsf23d21ab.jpg.html)
Catalina flying-boat on patrol which could last up to 22 hours and range far into the Atlantic. The fast-changing weather systems claimed the lives of many aircrew as they returned to their Northern Ireland bases through high winds, low cloud and heavy rain.

PPRUNERS who are pilots, most better qualified than myself, please forgive this faltering explanation of navigation, as I know many followers of this enthralling thread are interested in the problems faced by those who gave their all for our freedom.

Let’s say we want to fly from London to Edinburgh. We draw a line on the map, we measure the angle relative to north with a protractor, and it’s about 340 degrees. We measure the distance, and it’s 360 miles. So all we need to do is to steer 340 degrees on our compass, fly at Catalina cruise of 120 mph -- two miles a minute -- and we’ll reach Edinburgh in 180 minutes, provided there is no wind.

Wind is a huge problem for the airman. If we have a 20mph north headwind on the nose, our speed over the ground will be reduced by 20mph, so our flight at the resulting 100 mph will take longer. If the wind is a tailwind from the south, our ground speed will be increased by 20mph to 140 mph and our flight will be shorter.

There are problems when the wind comes from one side. If we have a prevailing westerly wind of 20 mph, by no means unusual, our Catalina will be drifted sideways by 20 miles every hour and our three-hour flight will end up 60 miles east of Edinburgh, far out in the North Sea. Of course we have various pinpoints marked on our map, and we can correct for the wind drift as we fly along, assuming we can see the ground.

Technology, satellites and computers make today’s met forecasts very accurate, and using the forecast winds at various heights we can adjust our heading to make good the required track. In effect we would set course for a point 60 miles west of Edinburgh, so during the three-hour flight the wind would carry us 60 miles to the east and hopefully right over the famous Castle. But 70 years ago there were neither satellites nor computers.

The crews of Coastal Command, plodding homeward after an eight-hour patrol, had no ground features to help them find the wind. They had to make do with dropping smoke floats and watching their drift, or try to assess wind speed and direction from the waves below. Early radar was not reliable, and when it did indicate the coast it was difficult to tell which part of the coast.

Crews returning to Limavady and Ballykelly could let down over Lough Foyle and creep into base at low level, peering through rain-lashed Perspex for a glimpse of a ground feature. But some returning crews mistook Lough Swilly to the west for Lough Foyle, and paid the price when they let down into the Urris Hills between the two loughs. Fragments of Whitley and Wellington can still be found on those hills to this day, and their crews rest in the little graveyards close to their bases.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y503/Oldnotbold/Warmemorials_zpsd2041722.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/Oldnotbold/media/Warmemorials_zpsd2041722.jpg.html)
Catalina AH536 and her crew lie beneath the waters of Lough Erne to this day. On the right, local people erected this poignant memorial on the Antrim cliffs near to the Giant's Causeway to commemorate two young men who had travelled halfway round the world to join the fight for freedom.

Union Jack
5th Jan 2014, 17:22
But a bit of paraffin should be all right, surely ? - after all a firelighter is only paraffin wax, isn't it ?

Brings a whole new meaning to "Keep the home fires burning"!:O

Jack

Chugalug2
5th Jan 2014, 21:33
Excellent picture of an excellent aircraft, geriaviator. Thank you! Good account of the effect of wind in Air Navigation as well. You can't over emphasise the important basics.

Your cruise speed for the Cat is ballpark of course, but we had a USAF Major at Cranwell who once stated that it; Took Off at 90, Flew at 90, and Landed at 90. Maybe he was talking about Endurance Speed, or maybe just having a laugh, but it made the point of the stately way these Galleons of the Air proceeded upon their lawful occasions!

Danny42C
5th Jan 2014, 22:45
dogle,

Ref your #4960 and the mention of an "ASK- 8". We had a "K-2" for dual instruction at GK. Would that be from the same family ?...D.

Chugalug and Geriaviator,

They were, I believe, known as "Flying Planks" (from the wing shape). 90 kts sounds a trifle slow...D.

Cheers, Danny.

dogle
6th Jan 2014, 10:18
It was indeed, Danny. Rudolf Kaiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Kaiser)

BEagle
6th Jan 2014, 11:42
The Catalina cruising speed is variously reported as typically 100-120 mph (87-105 kt).....:eek:

Pom Pax
6th Jan 2014, 16:32
From my post # 2522:-
My late Uncle (not in the mob but R.A. A.A.) told me that whilst stationed in Colombo "every time a Catalina was sighted they had to stand to as the Japs had some captured ones."
Can anyone substantiate the fact that that there were Catalinas in Japanese hands?

Fareastdriver
6th Jan 2014, 18:07
Catalinas in Japanese hands

Probably not. However, the Yokosuma and Kawanishi Flying boats had a similar high wing with twin engines to the Catalina' The RA would have been able to differentiate the twin tails of the Japanese aircraft to the single fin of the Catalina.

Not so the Navy air gunners who had only four recognition codes:

If it's got one engine it's a Messersmidt.
If it's got two it's a Heinkel.
If it's got three it's a Junkers.
If it's got four it's a Condor.

That's what my father said when they used to take their lives in their hands returning from the Atlantic.

Danny42C
6th Jan 2014, 22:02
dogle,

Thanks - it was a very nice glider (not that I know much about them)...D.

Fareastdriver,

Yes ! I was always told to keep out of gun range of all warships - for matelots will always shoot first and ask questions afterwards !

Makes sense, really. On the ground, a squaddie thinks "If it's hostile, it may not be gunning for me, but someone else - I can wait and see". The matelot knows he's the target....D.

All this talk of Catalinas reminds me of the tale (in my Post long since) of the F/E's unwise prank in one at Cholaveram (Madras). (#3007 and #3018 p.151 "A Danny Come to Judgment").

Danny.

PS: Was quite impressed by the ITV4 film "Midway" yesterday PM. Not all Hollwwood heroics like the earlier post war version.

Educated Armourer
7th Jan 2014, 07:29
Pah, take some time off over Christmas and keep away from PPrune and it has taken me ages to catch up on what I have missed. Some of my periods with the Army fairly clearly demonstrated to me the difference between ‘their’ thought processes and ‘ours’ but also demonstrated the momentum that some training built up – it’s always been done that way. In the mid eighties I did the technical course on the Scimitar tank (ok the CVR(T)) which consisted mainly of the Rarden cannon and the co-axial GPMG. The course was excellent if a little noddy, aimed at someone not quite as skilful as your average RAF armourer, and we actually fired the Gimpy that we serviced – which the RAF never let trainees do, it concentrated the mind and made sure that you did a good job. A few years later I was due to go to Sek Kong and was told that I needed to do the Spartan course, also down at Bordon. It was supposed to consist of the 76mm cannon and the co-axial GPMG, which obviously I had already done. However, when I got there the Army had unilaterally taken the GPMG off the course as they knew that the RAF now taught it themselves at Cosford. In its place they taught general armament and I had a great course climbing over Chieftain and the new Challenger plus other exotic kit. The course was extremely well taught, if a little laid back. When the instructor was instructing the students were allowed to smoke (I had given up a few years earlier) and when it came to removing the turret of the Spartan we were just shown the kit and told to get on with it. In the RAF you would have needed a chit to check the kit and another one to use it and probably a fair amount of instruction.

When I got out to Sek Kong there were no Spartans, as expected, as the RAF had stopped using them a year or 2 earlier and I asked why I had to do the Spartan course. It was all due to the fact that the co-axial Gimpy with its mounting were not dissimilar to the Gimpy and its mounting on the Wessex that was used in Hong Kong. So I had to do a 4 week course (that I thoroughly enjoyed) for a weapon that the Army no longer taught to the RAF, all because they now taught it themselves. And where was I detached from to go on the course? It was Cosford, where, among other things, I taught the maintenance of the GPMG.

Some years later I was doing pre-employment training for the Falklands and had to do a couple of EOD courses – one of them with the RE down at Chatham. Once again a good course, if a little bit of an eye opener to a sheltered RAF lad into the mind of the average RE. They were very proud when they swamped the bed and when we had to go and blow kit up on the beach and had to book into a hotel they asked for rubber sheets so that they would not get charged for a new mattress in the morning.

They also made the training more realistic. One very cold December morning we were dealing with ‘chemical’ munitions. I was wearing full combats, plus NBC, plus a fuel suit with self contained breathing apparatus. I went forward and dealt with the problem with double sealed bags and plaster of Paris and then came back. I was a little on the warm side. At this point the RAF would have talked about decontamination – the Army had set up a decontam area and within about 2 minutes I was naked under a shower run from a stand pipe. I was then a little on the cold side. And this wasn’t just for the 2 RAF lads on the course – everyone was subjected to it during the exercise.

Once again, I enjoyed working with the Army, both REME and RE – but I am so glad I wore light blue in my normal day job.

Danny42C
7th Jan 2014, 17:42
Chugalug,

Just finished watching the You Tube you gave me (your #4945 p.248) documentary on the Dams raid. Excellent and very well balanced, I thought. Well worth watching !

And it was encouraging to hear the two splendid old veterans at the end confirming my point about the importance of the fillip which the raid gave to our morale.

Thanks a lot !

Danny.

Warmtoast
7th Jan 2014, 20:55
Danny42C


"Your post #4959 - Danny recalls some small memories of Quarters life."


Your recollections of the temperamental coke boiler in your MQ in Germany brought back memories of a similar beast that lurked in the cellar of our MQ in Moenchengladbach.


It was coke fuelled and when I first started using it, getting it to work properly was a problem and I very sensibly relied on the knowledge of our neighbours. Major problem was not to let the furnace get too hot, if it did so the coke turned into a solid mass of clinker and as a result went out. There was nothing worse than Mrs WT calling me on a cold winter’s day that there the boiler had gone out.


The only way to start it again was with a supply of old crumpled up newspapers, wood kindling and a degree of patience. Eventually with practice it was easy enough, but one had to keep an eye on the flue doors to make sure it didn’t burn too hot. It kept the house beautifully warm in the winter and the German’s, with typical Teutonic thoroughness, even ensured there was a radiator in the garage — ideal for the very early morning cold starts, straight into a warm car – lovely! I returned to the UK in the summer of 1975, just as we were informed that the coke-fired boilers were to be replaced by automatic gas-fired ones — too late for me, but my successor must have been very happy.

As regards your frog in the laundry room — you must have had a similar quarter, as ours too had steps into it from the back garden as can be seen to the left of the open French Door in the photo below.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/Image12_zps96429f87.jpg


Last I heard from German friends who lived in the area was that these quarters had been handed back to the Germans and had been sold on the open market with the new buyers doing modern conversions.


Living in the British military married quarter patch not far from the centre of town in Moenchengladbach was very handy, especially if you were a football fan as Borussia Moenchengladbach’s Bökelberg stadium was about three-hundred yards away. The army major who was our next-door neighbour was HQ BAOR’s liaison with the German football authorities and he always had a supply of free tickets for MG’s home games. On home match days it was chaos in the area with fans parking their cars all over the place, pavements included as seen below outside our house.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/Image13_1090x800.jpg

Geriaviator
8th Jan 2014, 17:28
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y503/Oldnotbold/irelandmap_zps029bd44d.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/Oldnotbold/media/irelandmap_zps029bd44d.jpg.html)
The Ballyshannon corridor over neutral Eire saved RAF flying-boats three to four hours on each sortie from their bases on Lough Erne, avoiding a journey north around Donegal. Northern Ireland had 17 airfields capable of taking four-engined aircraft, including Nutt's Corner and Langford Lodge beside Aldergrove. The first, with Prestwick, were the terminals for Ferry Command from the US, and Langford Lodge became a vast USAF overhaul unit, so big it had its own railway connection to Belfast.

By mid-1940 Britain stood alone against Germany, and Coastal Command’s role in convoy protection became vital. The U-boats were sinking some 50 ships each week, many of them on the convoy route around Ireland. Bodies were being washed ashore in such numbers that Donegal and Mayo councils were concerned at the cost of so many funerals, with coffins at £2.10s each (about £360 in today’s money). Old graveyards, some unused since the Irish Famine of almost a century before, were re-opened for the U-boat victims.

My story centres on Lough Erne, where the Sunderlands and Catalinas began their long hauls into the Atlantic. At first they had to fly north and west around Donegal in neutral Ireland, losing almost four hours of valuable operating time. The Irish Government, protected by the RAF and the Royal Navy and supplied by the Merchant Navy, agreed to permit a low-powered beacon at Ballyshannon, marking a direct corridor across neutral territory for the flying-boats to reach the Atlantic. Today a plaque on the town bridge at Ballyshannon commemorates the airmen who lost their lives on wartime patrol.

Patrols were between eight and 12 hours, the Catalina with extra tanks being capable of 22 hours, its cramped and noisy interior a gruelling workplace for its crew. My friend and instructor Desmond Mock flew the Catalina from Lough Erne in Northern Ireland, and constantly urged me to learn from the mistakes of his wartime days. His patient tuition saved me from at least one disaster.

Desmond quite liked the Cat which he said was pleasant if heavy to handle. With its long wing and wing struts, they tried to keep out of icing conditions. The Cat was cramped for its crew of 10, unlike the spacious Sunderland which even had a well-equipped galley and a magnificent porcelain flush loo in the nose compartment. In fact some airmen slept aboard their Sunderlands at anchor in preference to the damp, freezing nissen huts which housed most of Castle Archdale’s 2,500 staff.

The Cat was very noisy, with the prop blades just behind the cockpit. At high rpm the tips approach sonic speed and create the ear-shattering drone best demonstrated by a Harvard. I met two Catalina pilots in New Zealand in 2001 and both were deaf as a result of four years in Cats. On the other side was the reliability of the Pratt and Whitney Twin Wasp, also used in the Dakota. Desmond told me the legendary Rolls-Royce Merlin was prone to coolant leaks, although nobody dared say so, and he and his comrades much preferred the comforting rumble of the air-cooled radials. “Every aeroplane has its good and bad sides, but we felt the Cat would always get us back provided we could keep off the mountains”.

The Cat had 50-cal waist guns and 30-cal in nose and a ventral mounting behind the hull step. Unlike the Sunderland with its four-gun rear turret, the Cat had little defence against the easiest fighter attack from the rear but such encounters were very rare from Northern Ireland bases and Desmond and his crew never saw an enemy -- “though we certainly didn’t complain about that”.

Eleven hours across the Pacific on comfy seat in the magnificent 747 was more than enough for me, so I can only guess at the stamina needed for 11 hours in a noisy, cramped Catalina. In fact 10 to 12 hour patrols were commonplace, and on one occasion Desmond and his crew were at sea for 22 hours. They were listed as overdue as nobody realised their Cat had long-range tanks, and received a rollicking from the CO for their efforts.

sycamore
8th Jan 2014, 19:02
Danny,a PM for you....

Danny42C
8th Jan 2014, 20:30
Warmtoast,

Lovely pictures - takes us back ! Our MQ was at the end of a row, just like yours, with a south-facing back garden like yours. But we think that it looks a size larger. Obviously, as in the UK, they designed a range of MQs at first, and then replicated them all over RAF(G).

I was a bit puzzled by the row of German registered cars till you told me about the football stadium free-for-all parking - they'd crowded out all your white on black BFG registrations !

Now were they still dishing out petrol coupons in your day ? If so, can you remember what extra ones cost (Dm/Litre) ? ....D.


Geriaviator,

The Battle of the Atlantic, said Churchill, was his greatest anxiety in the war.It was only won through dogged and relentless work by the Navy and the maritime Air Forces, and the heroism of the Merchant Marine. And it is arguable that even that might not have been enough without Bletchley Park and the "Ultra" break-through into the U-boats' Enigma codes, which tipped the balance in our favour..... D.

Cheers to you both,

Danny.

Warmtoast
8th Jan 2014, 22:08
Danny42C


A couple more Moenchengladbach married quarters photos from my album.


Showing the whole house from the outside, and shots of the dining room and lounge inside. Outside photo shows the rotating aerial I erected for the TV and FM. MG being within service areas of Dutch and Belgian TV transmitters, reception of these stations with quite a few original English language programs and films subtitled in Dutch/Flemish and French made a welcome change to the German WDR and ZDF stations which if they had English programs, dubbed them into German. BFBS of course broadcast on FM Radio 24-hours a day I think.

The other thing I remember was that I was very much into HiFi in a big way and purchased a pair of Wharfedale 15-inch "Monitor Gold" speakers, probably the best speakers I every heard, but sadly Mrs WT wanted something smaller and less obtrusive, so the Monitor Gold's had to go, replaced by something smaller from the American PX at Wiesbaden which was considerably cheaper than the JHQ NAAFI prices. "Monitor Gold" speakers can be seen in the lounge photos.


MQ photos from my album.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/59PNA6_zpsfae0c3d8.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/59PNADiningRoom_zpsd39123c5.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/59PNALounge1_zpsc89a15a9.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/59PNALounge2_zpsebcbc3fa.jpg


"Now were they still dishing out petrol coupons in your day ? If so, can you remember what extra ones cost (Dm/Litre) ? ....D."


Certainly BFG petrol coupons were standard issue whilst I was in Germany (1972 - 1975). ISTR that when I arrived I paid about DM2.50 for a 10ltr coupon. With the rate of exchange when I arrived in 1972 at around DM12 = £1 Sterling it was peanuts compared to the full taxed pump price paid by Germans. Coupons were valid at BP pumps anywhere in Germany and at Esso stations on the autobahns.


The other perk apart from cheap booze from the mess was the NATO "Abwicklungsschein" for use when one bought goods from the German shops. This allowed an entitled buyer to purchase minus the Mehrwertsteuer (MwSt) - Value Added Tax. "Abwicklungsscheins" had to be purchased (a couple of DMs I think) from a pay office and stamped with a Unit stamp and presented to the shop, a minimum purchase had to be around DM250 or similar, but savings for high value goods was well worthwhile.

Danny42C
9th Jan 2014, 17:23
Warmtoast,

Thank you for the second group of OMQ pictures. Very little seems to have changed in the twelve years between our RAF(G) postings.

I'm particularly interested in the price you quote for petrol coupons (Dm 2.50 for 10 litres) - but of course it may have been different in '60 to'62 - and the fact that you were still getting around Dm 12:£1. In our time we first got Dm 11.90, that fell almost immediately to Dm 11.70, but remained (IIRC) at that figure up to '62 when we left.

Sterling at home inflated by a factor of 1.7 between '60 and '72, so you were getting a very favourable rate indeed. Taking all that into account, and doing some sums on the back of an old envelope, I reckon you were getting fuel at the equivalent of 23p a litre today - around 1/6 of what we're all paying. Those were the days !

Now in our time everybody got a free monthly ration of coupons to start you off. Was it still so with you (and can you remember how many ?). Ah, the dreaded VAT (came in with the '72 Finance Act, so after our time). I knew it well.

The principle here was that an exporting State levied no VAT (or MwSt) on goods for export, but the (EU) importing company (which had got the goods in VAT-free) had to account for "output" VAT on resale at the rate in force in UK (or wherever). If you'd bought a really valuable item out there, and benefited from this rebate, then Customs would (or should) have stung you for VAT ad valorum on top of Import Duty (no doubt they did !) when you came home.

Cheers, Danny.

Warmtoast
9th Jan 2014, 21:37
Danny42C

I'm particularly interested in the price you quote for petrol coupons (Dm 2.50 for 10 litres) - but of course it may have been different in '60 to'62 - and the fact that you were still getting around Dm 12:£1.

I may have been a little too generous with the 1972 BFG petrol coupon price. Having spoken to a friend who was in the Army in Germany in the early seventies he thinks my quote of DM 2.50 = 10 litres coupon is too low, but couldn't come up with an alternative. So treat my recollection with a pinch of salt until someone comes up with a better sourced figure.

Now in our time everybody got a free monthly ration of coupons to start you off. Was it still so with you (and can you remember how many ?).

No free coupons in my days there, they had to be purchased.

As regards my DM - £ Sterling exchange rate a better figure is DM 9.00 = £1 Sterling for 1972. When I left Germany in 1975 it was down to about DM 5.50 = £1 Sterling.

Danny42C
10th Jan 2014, 00:15
GK produced a monthly Station Magazine. Among the more popular regular columns was "....SO I BOUGHT A ...." In this, a buyer of a new car of a model not previously described extolled the virtues of his purchase. I took it upon myself to write about the Peugeot.

To the best of my recollection, this was the result (written about '60):

"In the dawn of motoring history, a French automobile engineer pondered the problem of suiting the very limited rpm range of his engine to the varying road speeds of his car. With a flash of inspiration, he removed the change-speed mechanism from his lathe and incorporated it into the transmission.

"C'ést brusque et brutale", said he after a couple of turns round the block, "mais ça marche". Not only had he invented the gearbox essentially as we know it today, but he'd laid down the philosophy which was to motivate a whole generation of French car designers.

At home we reserve the highest praise for cars in which "the loudest sound at 60 mph is the ticking of the clock" - ("We'll have to do something about that clock, old boy") . These attributes leave your average Frenchman cold. He has paid for his engine and does not mind hearing it working. His roads are long and straight but rough and narrow, and they are lined each side with trees (planted by Napoleon to shade his Grande Armée on the march), but which also stop you leaving the carriageway and ploughing up good agricultural land.

A specification emerges for a car which goes fast, exactly where it is pointed, with soft suspension to soak up all the bumps, and (when the inevitable load of hay appears half way round a bend) can be hauled to a standstill without capsizing or taking to the woods.

For three generations, the Peugeot family has prospered by providing just such vehicles to Frenchmen of modest means. You will look in vain for walnut veneer cappings, carpets or leather seats (the interior is all plastic and rubber, you can wash it out with a mop and bucket). A very low compression ratio (6.25:1) * lets you use the vilest petrol available. (on this account, and because of their rugged build, they are popular in E. Africa - it's said in Durban that they're the only things that the Zulu cab drivers can't break !)

"Rough and ready" they may be. "Go" they certainly do.

(For this excellent piece of advertising copy, I received not a sou, nor a cent, nor a pfennig). Ah well.

Note *: I'm sure this was the handbook figure then , but research now says 7:1 on that engine (still low).

*******************

GK was closed for runway repairs for a few weeks (the Squadrons must have been flown out somewhere, but I can't remember where). ATC put its feet up, but of course we were still manned.

But the GAF took advantage of the empty airfield to use it for working-up a display team they'd recently formed. This was a 4 x F.104 "Starfighter" affair, with (we were told) a USAF Major leading and three GAF pilots. Our South taxiway would be an ideal "crowd line" for them to use as a reference point.

I particularly remember them practising barrel-rolls low-ish over the runway. We spectators were turning pale with horror, there were sharp intakes of breath - Local Control brought the Crash crews to readiness. For "The Widowmaker" was far from the ideal mount for formation aerobatics. With a wing loading of over 100 lb/sq.ft, before hanging anything on it, I would guess (knowing nothing about them) that it would only be happy at 250 knots or more. But at that speed the spectators would hardly have time to get their noses out of the ice-cream before the barrel-roll was out of sight.

So they were doing it as slowly as they dared, and that was the trouble. The things were clearly only marginally in control, sashaying about all over the place as they struggled to hold position. There was no future in this, we thought. Nor was there. Last thing we heard some time later, they had rolled themselves into a ball and gone into an opencast mine somewhere (all dead).

(Wiki has the story, but tells a different account of the disaster, and does not mention the mine. Apparently all further attempts to form a GAF Display Team were forbidden)

'Night, all.

Danny42C.

There are old pilots, and bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

PS: Warmtoast, Yes, Dm 9:£ sounds more like it. The £ ended on Black Wednesday in '92 at Dm 2.77:£ !....D.

NutLoose
10th Jan 2014, 09:30
Hey, Warmtoast, I see you have Airmans fitted carpets in your quarter, did you not have problems with your TV having it sitting on top of what is a glorified magnet?

We had about 4.10 Dm to the £ in the early 80's

teeteringhead
10th Jan 2014, 09:38
Desmond told me the legendary Rolls-Royce Merlin was prone to coolant leaks, although nobody dared say so, and he and his comrades much preferred the comforting rumble of the air-cooled radials. Puts me in mind of a remark made by Ferry Porsche (designer of the Beetle and - of course - the Porsche) when questioned on his preference for air-cooled engines:

"All engines are air-cooled! But some designers put water between the engine and the air!" :ok:

Fareastdriver
10th Jan 2014, 09:47
Would that be a Sansui or Pioneer tuner/amp mated with a Lenco transcription deck and a reel-to reel-tape recorder?

Warmtoast
10th Jan 2014, 16:22
Nutloose

Hey, Warmtoast, I see you have Airmans fitted carpets in your quarter, did you not have problems with your TV having it sitting on top of what is a glorified magnet?


OMQ carpets were transferred to AMQ's when worn - just joking!

They came with the quarter so assume they were standard issue in 1972, not sure whether we were entitled to better ones, but they did the job and looked nice so we didn't complain.

Loudspeaker magnets and our TV. ISTR no problems - perhaps they were better shielded in those days.

Warmtoast
10th Jan 2014, 16:27
Fareastdriver

Would that be a Sansui or Pioneer tuner/amp mated with a Lenco transcription deck and a reel-to reel-tape recorder?

My HiFi setup at the time as seen in the photo was:
Bang + Olufsen (B + O) Tuner/Amp, Garrard Turntable with Shure cartridge and Teac Compact Cassette player.

Danny42C
10th Jan 2014, 17:10
Nutloose,

Yes, static could have odd effects. One day I came back home, opened car door (but hadn't put foot on ground). Our dear little dog came bouncing out to greet me. Put out a hand to pat her, she jumped up - and a huge fat spark shot between my finger and her nose.

She yelped and recoiled as if I'd hit her, and wouldn't speak to me all day.....D.

teeteringhead,

Never heard of coolant leaks being a particular problem on the Merlins I flew behind (Mks. II,III,XII,35 and 266 - the "Packard Merlin"). Coolant trouble was usually operator-induced, notably by allowing the things to get to the boil on the ground.....D.

Fareastdriver,

Ah, we're at the top of the tree now ! My Lump Sum after retirement only ran to a Teleton ("Terrible-Ton" *) Cassiever in '74. Originally £105, they were clearing them off at £55 (x10 in today's money). I ordered one . A polite letter came: their Stock Computer had informed them that the last one had just gone - Sorry.

Just my luck, I thought. "Security Express" (or something like it) turns up in the afternoon - with my Teleton. (Moral: Put Not your Trust in Computers).

* Actually, it wasn't at all bad. The combination of open exhausts (at the end of 42 litres) and open cockpits had left us all high-tone deaf anyway (8,000 Hz top whack), so Hi-Fi was not much use to us....D.

Cheers to all, Danny.

Chugalug2
10th Jan 2014, 17:31
Very 70's interiors, Warmtoast, with 'earth colours' in abundance! I trust you had the long hair and flared jeans to match;-). How important was the Hi Fi set up then! Mine was a Lenco deck, Pioneer tuner amp, Sony compact cassette player and Pioneer speakers in Changi village supplied enclosures. The LP albums had to be sorted through, appropriate ones being selected and played in turn. Rather more thought and effort required than choosing "Playlist #3"!

Very enterprising of you to photograph your home for recalling much later. We revisited ours at Hullavington 25 years after it was our first home together, thanks to the kindness of the Ghurkha officer and his family then in occupation. Rooms were either much larger or smaller than remembered, but now with a modern kitchen and bathroom, and no longer heated from the kitchen coke stove (for hot water) or the lounge backboiler fitted fire (for the main bedroom radiator) but by North Sea Gas. It was greatly improved.


Danny, glad to hear that you enjoyed the Dambusters video. T'internet is a wondrous thing, is it not? Your mention of the F104 recalls an Air Display at Saint Truiden in 1971. All the NATO teams did their party pieces one after the other, vying with a rapidly descending cloud base to boot. The finale was an entire Belgian Wing of said beasts fired up in the woods, where was their abode, and taxiing onto the ORP where they waited in echelon formation. Finally the leader brought up the rear, but taxied to pole position on the runway. The entire wing then formed up in close formation behind him and, on his command, rolled together in that formation on Take Off. The noise, with all in reheat, was deafening, and they promptly disappeared into the murk. What they did or where they went thereafter I know not, for that was the end of the show. Some fat lady!

MPN11
10th Jan 2014, 18:54
OMG ... vintage stereo! Oh, the damp patch that created!! The competition in Tengah to have the best kit was obsessive! And it had to be in a Jimmy Jewell coffee-table-type cabinet, designed and specified by himself.

My system was cr@p. In fact, the current one is also cr@p. I don't care! :ooh:

Danny42C
10th Jan 2014, 20:54
"Military Aircrew" (2046 hrs) says 4998 "replies". Last Post (1954 hrs) is MPN11 #4987. What could be an explanation for this (11 "scratched") ?

Chugalug,

Your #4001 p.201 refers:..."Roll on 5,000 !"... That hasn't taken long. And, by my reckoning, we've had 4495 hits in the last 24 hours ! We've got the Best Thread Ever on Military Aircrew * going nicely now - let's keep it up. Thanks, Cliff (RIP) et al.

..."and no longer heated from the kitchen coke stove (for hot water)"... Don't mention that diabolical little square horror to me !....D

MPN11,

You and me both ! Low-Fis of the world, unite !....D.

Cheers, both. Danny.

Note * "Caption Competition" is, by its very nature, bound to generate an enormous number of one-liners which will (in numbers) dwarf all the others.

Geriaviator
11th Jan 2014, 14:31
Flying was dangerous enough, driving Fermanagh’s winding roads in the blackout was even worse, so the airmen removed the headlight masks from their ancient vehicles and soon encountered trouble from the local police. On more than one occasion country policemen lectured the aircrews on how unmasked headlights would attract German bombers and help them to navigate.

It was too much for one Catalina pilot, who told the policeman to black out his nice white police station in Ballinamallard as he could see it from the air at night, and would prove it the next time he was night flying. The policeman didn’t believe him, so for several weeks afterwards the little village and surrounding countryside were awakened by pairs of Twin Wasps at full rpm a few feet over their rooftops.

It was agreed that perhaps the Luftwaffe wasn’t such a threat after all, and that car headlights could be used in moderation. So peace returned to the Fermanagh countryside.