CARDIFF - 2
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9 or 10 what does it matter..it is still a pity poor show for the summer. I hope for CWL sake it improves but Flybe profits are down and you'll see contraction....it really is a difficult market and if Baby can't do it you'll need a miracle
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I agree that it is a poor state. Baby's flights weren't comparitive in cost to Ryanair's/Easyjet's, thats what has pushed people to BRS, Baby simply wasn't LoCo enough ! So, either Ryanair, Easyjet, Jet2 or even another charter airline Monarch, could then compete with the likes of TOM and TCX if the pricing structure and route network was there
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Please Ben, I can see you are new, but you are trying my patience. WAN are well meaning but some of them don't see what is self evident. There is no business case for CWL's existence at the moment. This will likely change with a change of ownership, but, like Greece, it is delusional to think that a White Knight will ride in and save the day.
Sorry I add this to underline the point, today Cardiff INTERNATIONAL! Airport
had no ILS,DME, or NDB operational. Therefore, the only instrument approach available was a SRA, something I haven't done for 25 years. Thankfully, it was a fine day for a visual approach, but honestly, what sort of airport allows all of its landing facilities to be u/s at the same time?
Sorry I add this to underline the point, today Cardiff INTERNATIONAL! Airport
had no ILS,DME, or NDB operational. Therefore, the only instrument approach available was a SRA, something I haven't done for 25 years. Thankfully, it was a fine day for a visual approach, but honestly, what sort of airport allows all of its landing facilities to be u/s at the same time?
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There is an ILS in operation and has been for years. The runway and ground operations facilities are two of the main reasons that we are home to one of the largest maintenance hangars in the world (BAMC).
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Check this notam out :-
EGTT/QICAS/I/NBO/A/000/999/5124N00321W005
B) FROM: 11/06/29 19:43C) TO: 11/06/30 23:59
E) RWY 30 ILS I-CWA U/SFOLLOWING APPROACH PROCEDURES ARE WITHDRAWNILS/DME/NDB(L) RWY 30LOC/DME/NDB(L) RWY 30RADAR VECTORED APPROACHES ARE AVAILABLE DURING THE PROMULGATED HOURSOF SERVICE. RANGE CHECKS WILL BE GIVEN AND AMENDED MISSED APPROACHINSTRUCTIONS WILL BE ISSUED.
EGTT/QICAS/I/NBO/A/000/999/5124N00321W005
B) FROM: 11/06/29 19:43C) TO: 11/06/30 23:59
E) RWY 30 ILS I-CWA U/SFOLLOWING APPROACH PROCEDURES ARE WITHDRAWNILS/DME/NDB(L) RWY 30LOC/DME/NDB(L) RWY 30RADAR VECTORED APPROACHES ARE AVAILABLE DURING THE PROMULGATED HOURSOF SERVICE. RANGE CHECKS WILL BE GIVEN AND AMENDED MISSED APPROACHINSTRUCTIONS WILL BE ISSUED.
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There is an ILS in operation and has been for years. The runway and ground operations facilities are two of the main reasons that we are home to one of the largest maintenance hangars in the world (BAMC). #
Benjiman...what you say above is true....BAMC does not bring bums on seats and also they are many bigger hangar facilities worldwide that dwarf CWL.
Benjiman...what you say above is true....BAMC does not bring bums on seats and also they are many bigger hangar facilities worldwide that dwarf CWL.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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That may be true, hence the phrase 'one of'
CWL has potential and market, I keep telling everyone. I have dedicated time into conducting customer surveys etc. and providing support from my blog
http://aviationwales.********.com/
Visit, and find out what I am all about guys ...
CWL has potential and market, I keep telling everyone. I have dedicated time into conducting customer surveys etc. and providing support from my blog
http://aviationwales.********.com/
Visit, and find out what I am all about guys ...
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I'd suggest that one just needs to travel up the road a way to North East of Swindon, beside the village of Carterton, to view a hangar/maintenance facility larger than that at CWL!
Ooops ..... mustn't mention England
Ooops ..... mustn't mention England
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Macdo has hit the nail on the head.
Cardiff's problem is simply that right now no carrier has enough belief in the presence, resilience and non-seasonality of the market to risk considerable sums of money to start a base, or even routes, from there.
All the chest beating in the world on WAN, or anywhere else, won't alter that fact - the only way that airlines are going to get interested is if (a) their other, local, bases start to face massive capacity issues (not for a while, that one), or (b) the WG starts putting money into the pot massively (of questionable legality, not sustainable and potential political suicide in a time when pensions are under attack), or (c) considerable effort is put into real, empirical data collection and research as to how big the market actually is, to prove it is there, and to go and tell the airlines THAT message.
I suppose that this dry, real, message won't be well received in some quarters. Less wise and less experienced heads than many of the learned friends on PPRuNe may point to past glories, or note that they and their gran would definitely use a given service, or how many people in the pub tell them that Cardiff is too expensive to fly from, or perpetuate the myth that Cardiff is massively expensive to operate to. But sadly the message is the hard, cold facts of life in the airline industry today.
No amount of abuse of the airport management, abuse of the WG, or abuse of the messenger by the hard of thinking will alter the facts.
Cardiff is a huge risk for any operator, and in these times, no-one wants risk.
TA
Cardiff's problem is simply that right now no carrier has enough belief in the presence, resilience and non-seasonality of the market to risk considerable sums of money to start a base, or even routes, from there.
All the chest beating in the world on WAN, or anywhere else, won't alter that fact - the only way that airlines are going to get interested is if (a) their other, local, bases start to face massive capacity issues (not for a while, that one), or (b) the WG starts putting money into the pot massively (of questionable legality, not sustainable and potential political suicide in a time when pensions are under attack), or (c) considerable effort is put into real, empirical data collection and research as to how big the market actually is, to prove it is there, and to go and tell the airlines THAT message.
I suppose that this dry, real, message won't be well received in some quarters. Less wise and less experienced heads than many of the learned friends on PPRuNe may point to past glories, or note that they and their gran would definitely use a given service, or how many people in the pub tell them that Cardiff is too expensive to fly from, or perpetuate the myth that Cardiff is massively expensive to operate to. But sadly the message is the hard, cold facts of life in the airline industry today.
No amount of abuse of the airport management, abuse of the WG, or abuse of the messenger by the hard of thinking will alter the facts.
Cardiff is a huge risk for any operator, and in these times, no-one wants risk.
TA
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Yes, I do agree that with your points. However, there must be at least one airline out there that is at least interested, surely ?
Personally, I would like to see Monarch but that is just a personal preference.
Also, I think that the terminal itself could be improved as there are no viewing areas for PAX etc, although there was one but was closed down. Also, the departure lounge is incredibly claustrophobic due to once again the lack of windows. Renovation, and Customer Satisfaction are key here.
If CWL cannot be resolved, the future of Welsh Aviation lies at Pembrey. I have seen the plans for the proposed terminal and they look modern and amazing. Also, the runway has a potential size of 4000m due to the area, although it is currently only around 800m or so.
Personally, I would like to see Monarch but that is just a personal preference.
Also, I think that the terminal itself could be improved as there are no viewing areas for PAX etc, although there was one but was closed down. Also, the departure lounge is incredibly claustrophobic due to once again the lack of windows. Renovation, and Customer Satisfaction are key here.
If CWL cannot be resolved, the future of Welsh Aviation lies at Pembrey. I have seen the plans for the proposed terminal and they look modern and amazing. Also, the runway has a potential size of 4000m due to the area, although it is currently only around 800m or so.
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Interesting. You agree with my points and then don't.
The length of the runway, the access to the airport, the shininess of the taps in the gents loo and the weather record all add up to a bucket of spit if the market isn't proven. Forget them, focus on the market!
What goes for Cardiff goes ten fold for Pembrey. If the market for the former is suspect, the market for the latter REALLY is.
TA
The length of the runway, the access to the airport, the shininess of the taps in the gents loo and the weather record all add up to a bucket of spit if the market isn't proven. Forget them, focus on the market!
What goes for Cardiff goes ten fold for Pembrey. If the market for the former is suspect, the market for the latter REALLY is.
TA
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Yes, i suppose you are correct. I think that all of this about the market and catchment area has got to be false. Cardiff airport serves all of south wales, bristol and surrounding areas, mid wales, and possibly even gets some custom from further afield. The Cardiff City owners (Malaysian) were talking about allowing malaysians to come to watch cardiff city, with perhaps the link of AirAsia, however I havent heard any more about this, and I do doubt that would happen now.
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Prove the market to the airlines and they will beat a path to the runway. Fail to do so and prepare for even more route closures....
TA
TA
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Also we do not need to be concerned with terminals check-in desks et al. When FR and Easy started at Liverpool the terminal was described as a converted chicken shed but just 12 checkin desks copped with 3.5 to 4m pax. Cardiff is ok as it is once the economic recoverey has firmly setin in South Wales that expansion will happen again. It will not be overnight more like a couple of years. Only then do we need to look at the terminal what would be worse an old terminal or a white elephant!
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Just been reading your blog, benjiman1994. A couple of things leap out.
Whilst I admire your enthusiasm, it won't win you friends making comments like
That was most certainly not Air Wales' problem, and the people who were running it may well take the hump at being told about their lack of experience by a 17 year old...
I would go and read Ryanair's results if I were you....
No it isn't.
Very good luck with starting an airline. As a free bit of consulting, work on the assumption that you'll need a minimum of £35m to do it from Cardiff. Happy to explain where that figure comes from, but put it this way, I do this sort of stuff for a living....
A noble aim, and one that provides the path to making CWL work. But I would suggest that urging others to do this is the way ahead, unless you have a lot of money and a background in market research techniques, quantitative analysis and a lot of time on your hands!
xtypeman makes a good observation - why on earth do you need more check in desks given the pax numbers? The ones there are just fine. Refurbishing them just adds to the airport's woes and cost base...
TA
Whilst I admire your enthusiasm, it won't win you friends making comments like
AirWales [that] ceased all operations in 2006, primarily due to a lack of management experience.
I can tell you that it is the Customer Service that makes customers return, not necessarily your prices.
CWL is home to the largest maintenance hangar in the World
Very good luck with starting an airline. As a free bit of consulting, work on the assumption that you'll need a minimum of £35m to do it from Cardiff. Happy to explain where that figure comes from, but put it this way, I do this sort of stuff for a living....
we are going to need to do this for the airlines
xtypeman makes a good observation - why on earth do you need more check in desks given the pax numbers? The ones there are just fine. Refurbishing them just adds to the airport's woes and cost base...
TA
Last edited by TwinAisle; 2nd Jul 2011 at 10:20.
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I read some nonsense that these CWL 'Reggie Spotter' enthusiast(s) want to start an airline that is claimed there will be so much demand for etc.
Well it's dead easy to do that, to put money where mouth is ... Manx2 currently operate a Do228 from/to CWL, just ask Manx2 to acquire a Boeing, an Airbus, or whatever and all Reggie Spotter PLC needs to do is finance it.
It's as simple as that .... time to put up or shut up, time to call bluffs one thinks
Well it's dead easy to do that, to put money where mouth is ... Manx2 currently operate a Do228 from/to CWL, just ask Manx2 to acquire a Boeing, an Airbus, or whatever and all Reggie Spotter PLC needs to do is finance it.
It's as simple as that .... time to put up or shut up, time to call bluffs one thinks