CARDIFF - 2
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Once again I totally agree, it is just aimed at the Cardiff Area. In Merthyr Tydfil, the buses contain advertisements for NTS Automaster, Stagecoach and many other things. In Swansea and newport, football is advertised etc, NO AIRPORT OR ROUTE ADVERTISING aimed directly at the market who use the airport (Apart from Cardiff itself, where many choose the airport anyway for proximity)
Join Date: Jul 2004
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And the only Manx2 publicity, aside from bad publicity here on pPrune, of the Angelsey route that I've seen was on the side of the Manx2 van parked in Tesco's car park the other day. 
WAG are throwing money by the bucket load at that operation yet aren't promoting it in any attempt to reduce their (our) subsidy of it.
WAG are throwing money by the bucket load at that operation yet aren't promoting it in any attempt to reduce their (our) subsidy of it.
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I think a little consideration of the airline point of view would be in order here.
Why do the airlines advertise so little? Is it because they are lazy/incompetent/thinking of pulling out anyway? Or is it that they get enough load and revenue according to their revenue targets from the marketing that they actually do carry out, and so cannot justify further expenditure for potentially little gain?
Bulk advertising costs tend to increase with the square of the radius covered - and so to get just a few more seats filled may cost them a lot of money. Pointless.
I would also remind folks that the airport doesn't fly anywhere - it's a pile of bricks. It is there as a facilitator for people who do fly, and I cannot quite see for the life of me why the airport should advertise for the carriers there. What will happen on, say, the Belfast route, when both flybe and bmibaby operate it? How does the airport decide which one to push - and it will have to, since having an advert that says 'fly Cardiff to Belfast' is pretty hopeless unless it gives the punter a way of booking. I can imagine that flybe would get the hump if the bmibaby service were featured, and vice versa...
As a cautionary note btw - most airlines defend their brands and service marks fiercely, so to all those planning to unofficially 'help' them - be careful. You might find them less than appreciative.
TA
Why do the airlines advertise so little? Is it because they are lazy/incompetent/thinking of pulling out anyway? Or is it that they get enough load and revenue according to their revenue targets from the marketing that they actually do carry out, and so cannot justify further expenditure for potentially little gain?
Bulk advertising costs tend to increase with the square of the radius covered - and so to get just a few more seats filled may cost them a lot of money. Pointless.
I would also remind folks that the airport doesn't fly anywhere - it's a pile of bricks. It is there as a facilitator for people who do fly, and I cannot quite see for the life of me why the airport should advertise for the carriers there. What will happen on, say, the Belfast route, when both flybe and bmibaby operate it? How does the airport decide which one to push - and it will have to, since having an advert that says 'fly Cardiff to Belfast' is pretty hopeless unless it gives the punter a way of booking. I can imagine that flybe would get the hump if the bmibaby service were featured, and vice versa...
As a cautionary note btw - most airlines defend their brands and service marks fiercely, so to all those planning to unofficially 'help' them - be careful. You might find them less than appreciative.
TA
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TA,
I totally agree and I made the point a few posts ago of who's responsibility it might be to advertise a product.
However ... in the case of the Manx2 Angelsey route, and take a guesstimate at the operating costs of a Do228, well we (the taxpayers) have, effectively, purchased every seat for £65 (ish) per seat and for the next 4 years.
Who needs to advertise? ... Certainly not Manx2, they're laughing all the way to the bank!!!
I totally agree and I made the point a few posts ago of who's responsibility it might be to advertise a product.
However ... in the case of the Manx2 Angelsey route, and take a guesstimate at the operating costs of a Do228, well we (the taxpayers) have, effectively, purchased every seat for £65 (ish) per seat and for the next 4 years.
Who needs to advertise? ... Certainly not Manx2, they're laughing all the way to the bank!!!
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You did indeed PF, my apologies I missed that!
£65 a seat - if only.
(Taken from some of my research)
TA
£65 a seat - if only.
In the first year of operation, a subsidy of £800,000 was paid to the then operator. Additionally, a further £390,000 had to be paid to Anglesey Airport. So now we have £1.2m in public money for the first year.
Well, that was the plan....
In fact, the airport needed some £1.5m for development work, and an ongoing £400k pa in revenue support. So a first year total of £1.19m has morphed into a first year total of £2.7m – an overrun of 127%. (It is fair to ascribe the airport costs to this route since no-one else goes there!)
Against that, the WAG's own report notes that the route generated 1,879 new trips (so about 940 returns), of which just 23.81% were for business use (the rest were VFR, other leisure, shopping, public sector). So, for £2.7m pounds, we got 224 business return trips. Call it £12,055 a trip. This is NOT the right way to encourage business to Wales!
Additionally, again from the WAG's own report, 'one business is considering setting up an office in N Wales as a result of the service'. Give me £2.7m and I'll open more than one office in N Wales!
Counting ALL the new passengers (that is, passengers who travelled because of the airlink, and who would not have taken the train or driven) who took the route in the first year, the subsidy amounts to £1,436.92 PER HEAD ONE WAY.
Yeesh! Alternatively, given the 14,133 passenger trips in the first year, this works out as a public subsidy of £191 per head, per one way trip.
Well, that was the plan....
In fact, the airport needed some £1.5m for development work, and an ongoing £400k pa in revenue support. So a first year total of £1.19m has morphed into a first year total of £2.7m – an overrun of 127%. (It is fair to ascribe the airport costs to this route since no-one else goes there!)
Against that, the WAG's own report notes that the route generated 1,879 new trips (so about 940 returns), of which just 23.81% were for business use (the rest were VFR, other leisure, shopping, public sector). So, for £2.7m pounds, we got 224 business return trips. Call it £12,055 a trip. This is NOT the right way to encourage business to Wales!
Additionally, again from the WAG's own report, 'one business is considering setting up an office in N Wales as a result of the service'. Give me £2.7m and I'll open more than one office in N Wales!
Counting ALL the new passengers (that is, passengers who travelled because of the airlink, and who would not have taken the train or driven) who took the route in the first year, the subsidy amounts to £1,436.92 PER HEAD ONE WAY.
Yeesh! Alternatively, given the 14,133 passenger trips in the first year, this works out as a public subsidy of £191 per head, per one way trip.
TA
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@RoyalWelsh
Congrats for stating the obvious. It's my bet that this is Manx2's way of subsidising costs on it's other routes and bases. So they won't be laughing in a few years when they have to hike prices all over.
Congrats for stating the obvious. It's my bet that this is Manx2's way of subsidising costs on it's other routes and bases. So they won't be laughing in a few years when they have to hike prices all over.
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A FALSE sense of security? How pray tell? They are as safe as a house under the PSO - all they have to do is plan for what happens when common sense invades the brains of the Welsh Government.
Not holding my breath on that one!
TA
Not holding my breath on that one!
TA
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And you honestly think that Manx2 don't know that already?
What they do know is that they are as safe as a house for the next n years....
TA
What they do know is that they are as safe as a house for the next n years....
TA
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Cardiff's only real hope in the immediate future is a well funded start up - since right now, there are no serious candidates from existing airlines, despite the pleadings of the FlyCardiff group.
And right now, the economic climate is beyond awful for any sort of start up.
TA
And right now, the economic climate is beyond awful for any sort of start up.
TA