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So if it was a case of you being asked whether you would be willing to delay your command course for a few months in order to allow some CPs to join the company who would otherwise have to move their entire families to some !!!!e-hole in the Middle East, your answer would be a firm 'No' as it was their fault for joining an airline (perhaps 10-20 years ago) that has become unsuccessful. I'm at a slightly different stage in my life to you I suspect. That's why I can't really have any respect for your position. Moving an entire family to another country is several orders of magnitude different from you waiting an extra few months for a command. And let's face it, Easy is a low experience airline. We could use these people.
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Bloody hell. What selfish and ignorant attitudes being displayed here. Some of the MON pilots, and the one I know well, had only just returned from years in Qatar having already worked for 3 failed airlines in the UK and Ireland. "Don't make their bad luck my bad luck". Unbelievable. It is this sort of attitude that makes me sick and I really hoped it wouldn't appear in this country. And as this is a MON thread why don't you take your ignorance and revolting thoughts elsewhere.
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Absolutely WHYEYEMAN. I am spitting feathers.
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I have 4300 hours flying the A320 for Easyjet. I know a TC for MON who has been there for 18 years, been on the 320 for nearly 8 and has 4300 hours on type. MON are equally low on experience - I know a capt there with less than 4000 hours TT. I can happily verify this. So 9 months ago if easy had closed MAN and made all pilots redundant would the MON pilots have been happy and accommodating with them DECing them into MAN ahead of command ready FOs. A heavily unionised airline like MON? It's rhetorical, don't bother answering.
I don't have a problem with them getting anything but I do have a problem with me being penalised for it. I know again, personally, MON Capts who left MON to join easy back when there were DECs. It's this lazy, lust for entitled regionality that causes this feeling - it doesn't happen anywhere else. An Ex's father was CFO for a major cargo airline - he had to spend years at a time in the Middle East, Germany, Singapore, Australia, Belgium and Ireland - as you can probably derive, he had a family too! I know lawyers, bankers, engineers, scientists and management consultants who've had to do and are doing the same. It's called life. I've had to do it with a family and family illness. Just got to get on with it and make your choice - I for example would do something else rather than go to the Middle East after considering it. Sorry Jax, since you want to join easy so much I presume you applied for DEC many of the other times up to and including the last few weeks? Or would you rather I displaced myself again and went to NAP, OPO or AMS away from or displacing MY family, having given this company over 5 years loyalty, so you don't have to, having given them none? Please, justify it to me. |
I'm not a big fan of prune but have the odd look! All I can say is this thread is about Monarch! Not EasyJet! I have heard of many people leaving easyJet for Monarch, up until now I have never heard of anyone leaving Monarch for easy! The deal easy currently offer certainly doesn't entice experienced labour!
If the people posting venomously on this thread are a reflection of crew at easy then I can't say I am that keen on joining easy! I however have friends at easy, most of whom are either keen to leave or go part time! They are however nice people and do not reflect the spite in several of the posters on this thread! Your delusional if you think easyJet cares about you as an employee, your just a cog in a machine, they will do what suits them best. Now can we start a new thread for all those who want to rant about easy?? |
Bit of thread creep going on. I haven't posted or visited here for around ten years maybe. See things haven't changed - still full of small minded, self centred, my airline's better than your airline drivel.
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Whyeyeman - question for you.
If your DEC's do arrive and there are vacancies at say MAN, do they go to LGW and let those on the MAN waiting list to move back to MAN? As many have said, there is absolutely no need to rescue the unfortunate MON chaps at the expense of our own. Your assertion that it will delay our command pool by a few weeks/months is cobblers! If MON people take our command slots then they are permanently taken; when our expansion stops, it means that our people next on the list will then have to wait for their chance whilst the MON chaps are fat dumb and happy in the LHS! |
If easy want or need pilots then Monarch pilots would stand a better chance than most to get offerred a job; not a command ahead of qualified, experienced, existing F/O's. That's the way it always has been with the majority of airlines, isn't this what seniority is all about? They should join at the bottom like everyone else - unless DEC's are what is required, because of a lack of appropriate experience or because the upgrade F/O's decline the base move, in which case they should join below the F/O's waiting and ready for slots and command courses. I've been there; had a command with one airline then joined another at the bottom and worked my way up. I really don't see why Monarch pilots should be given priority simply because their airline is in trouble. There are many other commercial pilots out there who have been struggling for years.
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JaxofMarlow wrote: Bloody hell. What selfish and ignorant attitudes being displayed here. Some of the MON pilots, and the one I know well, had only just returned from years in Qatar having already worked for 3 failed airlines in the UK and Ireland. "Don't make their bad luck my bad luck". Unbelievable. It is this sort of attitude that makes me sick and I really hoped it wouldn't appear in this country. And as this is a MON thread why don't you take your ignorance and revolting thoughts elsewhere. |
Sorry to sound unsympathetic. But if anyone does come across to the Big Easy, then I'd welcome them. However, they should NOT be given a regional base just because they will easily 'slot in'. Go where there's work and wait your turn on a transfer list, like the rest of us have to. It's bad enough seeing new hire cadets get sent to desirable regional bases when many of us with families have to commute. AMS/LIS/OPO/LGW should be a starting point just like it is for the rest of us.
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Could I ask the mods to rename this thread
'Easyjet First Officers in turbulence':) |
I was not suggesting MON pilots should get priority in location over existing EZY pilots. I was just saying that if EZY want experienced pilots then why not MON pilots. Relocation is a fact of life for many and I wasn't saying MON pilots should be excluded from positions overseas if that is what EZY have available. My point was that some have already spent considerable periods overseas in pursuit of their career. And pointing out to me that other careers have to spend time overseas on their way to the top just proves my point. No other careers are so single company orientated. Time with company is only one facet of advancement when a company is considering promotion. Of as much importance is time in profession, experience and aptitude for the role. Some seem to be saying aviation should be exempt from this and only consider time in company.
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AMS/LIS/OPO/LGW should be a starting point just like it is for the rest of us. Ask any easyJet pilot what happened when 'GO' and easyJet merged - nice payout for the GO pilots, bases of choice, part-time contracts - all to the detriment of the existing easyJet pilots, many of whom had been asking for those very contracts and were refused. So don't expect anything other than that which best suits the airline. |
Over the next 5 years, easy will need circa 600 new captains. That's assuming zero retirements, leavers, people going part time or losing their medical.
I would foresee DEC's at LGW yes. Plenty of CPs are waiting to escape LGW and this would expedite that process. Perhaps some of our wannabe CPs should 'get a grip' and improve their analytical skills before their command course. This would not represent a threat to your career and would make a huge difference to those affected at MON. |
Then let those affected at Monarch go to the back of the queue and not jump the queue.
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For a pilot with a command at MON a command at EZY is not jumping the queue. Subject to checks, it is maintenance of professional position. Yes, bottom of the command list but not as some are suggesting back to FO/Cadet.
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If there is 200 First Officers that have been deemed suitable for command at EZY then they are first in line for any command positions that become available. If there are no First Officers deemed suitable for a command position or perhaps not enough then the company would look at DECs?
Or have I missed something? |
What other professions operate within the confines of a single company to the exclusion of talent and skills outside. Pilots are professionals and ply their skills for a numerous companies across the world. If movement between companies always required you go to the bottom of the pack there would be no movement. When a consultant leaves a health authority he does not become a registrar at the next one. There is always a corporate hierarchy but this cannot and never will be to the exclusion of talent outside. If it did, then the only way to the top would be through length of service.
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Now I wonder, if it were the other way round. Let's say this time last year some Easy captains wanted DEC at Monarch. I wonder what the response might have been from your average Monarch pilot. I suspect the two word answer may have ended in "off".
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You might be right, but MON pilots don't run MON. If MON needed DEC then they would have done it. If they didn't, then they wouldn't. The pilots may have said something rude but it would have been irrelevant. There may well be a system in place in airlines that allows for identification of talent worthy of higher office, but as in all other businesses, this is not to the exclusion of rest of the world. Such waiting pools increase and decrease in size. It is the way of the business world.
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600 captains is 70 aircraft worth! I'm not gambling on that - certainly not being in a country I want to be in.
Jax, for such an experienced pilot you've missed or not grasped one point - a captaincy or command isn't a qualification. Too many people, particularly university entering/leaving people confuse education, experience and QUALIFICATION. A consultant in a hospital is a qualified position. You do an LPC, an OPC and presumably have an ATPL. Not a command ATPL just as I don't have an FO ATPL. It's ultimately so far outside my pay grade, no where near my decision and I need to jump through the hoops when my chance comes. No doubt being a captain is not a right to anyone and not every FO can or will have the capacity, ability or the personality to meet the standard. But that standard is subjective to each company too - in Easyjet the bar is very high - it needs to be. Time will tell all, let's hope we're all happy. Why you didn't apply for the DEC NAP, OPO and AMS I don't know though given how much you want to fly for Easyjet. It's a great company, I can recommend it. If I have the chance to fly with you I'm sure we will have a great day out. I hope you and your family aren't displaced and I very much hope MON turn it around. I don't think they will. I hope they do though. I'm done on this. |
Artie is right. I am no fan of seniority lists - they trap pilots in their airlines and prevent others joining, so work in favour of the managers and against pilots, but BALPA seem to generally support the system. So, why should pilots who chose to exclude others and favoured seniority bypass others at a non-seniority airline? They should be treated as any other applicant to the airlines to which they apply, and I suspect they will be. They should receive no more and no less favour than anyone else. I wish them luch, but not at the expense of others.
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Two major differences! Monarch is seniority based where as easy is not. Hence if bean counters want to take DEC they will.
You arrogantly assume that monarch guys are falling over themselves for a shot at easy! If you bemoan the issues of cadets getting regional bases over you commuting far afield then join forces and force your hand, rather than bitching on a forum, on a thread that's not even about easy!!!!:ugh: |
Go Around Flaps,
You've only missed one thing. That is that there are many Command ready F/O's on Euro contracts that don't wish to leave their Families for a LGW Command. Their choice I know. After UK tax and living/commuting expenses they will earn not much more money for a lot more responsibility c/w euro F/O conditions. So easy will address the Command shortfall by small number of DEC's. It's not helped by the appalling contracts on offer in AMS. This base might have created movement from some French/Italian bases but very few takers. As the CEO recently said when questioned about the AMS contract "You don't have to take it ....somebody else will" Wishing a happy outcome for Monarch crews. |
Jaxofmarlow, it's your lucky day. I'm sure you'll be applying given how much you wish to fly with us at easyJet:
Good Day, CAE Parc are accepting applications on behalf of easyJet Airlines, for the recruitment of A320 Captains / Naples, Italy Direct easyJet Permanent Contract. Terms On Offer: · Start Date: January 2015 · Salary: EUR117,159 + Sector Pay + Bonus Opportunity · Loyalty Pay Scheme · Standby + Night Stop Allowance · Flexible Roster with 25 Days Annual Leave Entitlement · Pension & Insurance Included Please find full terms on offer attached, please note, the contract will be a direct Permanent Contract with easyJet. Candidates that have already applied to easyJet over the last 12 months, will be required to await for a full 1 year period, before reapplying for an alternative or same contract within easyJet Airlines. Minimum Requirements: · Currently operating the A320 family aircraft · Minimum of 1,000 total flying hours (of which 500 flying PIC hours must be on the A320) · UK EASA Licence(or converted by start date) · Class 1 unrestricted medical · Low visibility Cat IIIB qualified · EEC Passport Holder · Min. ICAO Level 4 English with requirement to achieve Level 6 within 6 months of employment Interested candidates, that meet ALL of the above minimum requirements, please complete, ATTACHED Application Form (in typed format only) and return as soon as possible, along with the following documents: · Copy of your Passport (s) · Clear copy of all Pages of your Licence , ratings and radio licence · Copy of Class 1 Medical · Copy of your current LPC/OPC, full report including Instructor evaluation At a later stage we will need the following documents however they are not required for your initial application: · Licence Verification Letter from your Civil Aviation Authority · Recent Employer Reference with Contact Details for Referee · No Criminal Record and no accident incident report Kind Regards, Jacinta Jacinta Dooley Operations Support, Flight Crew CAE Parc Aviation St John’s Court Santry Dublin 9 Ireland t. +353 1 816 1725 f. +353 1 816 1711 s. parcavfc e. [email protected] w. CAE Parc Aviation - Aircraft Jobs & Aviation Support |
Ah well 200 command ready SFO! I rest my case!!!
Now can we now stop this been the easy thread??? |
Guys, let's not make this about us at Monarch. We are doing exactly what you would in our situation, trying to get the best possible job. If Easy have suitably qualified FO's waiting for lhs then absolutely stick them in before Monarch. If Easy don't do this then is it the right place for you? We have guys that are still going on about how unfairly they have been treated but are they looking elsewhere, nope. If you don't like the decisions your Managment make then go somewhere else. I think I'm a bit grumpy at the moment but I do wish some of my colleages would grow a set and stop moaning. Life is a :mad: sometimes but get over it and move on.
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Mesh you plonker......(said in the nicest possible way:ok:)
this thread is not about Monarch pilots but about Easyjet First Officers in the UK! Do you not get the feeling that there are a few Easy peeps who are a tad nervous about what their management might do..... |
I think the thing the easy guys are nervous about is a workforce like that at Monarch , willing to take a 30% pay cut , running into inferior contracts at easyjet making the slippery slope far more acute !
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1. If that workforce is willing to locate to Porto, Amsterdam or Napoli then it will happen. DEC and SFO.
2. UK pretty saturated at the moment with regard to Captain positions. Indeed pass rates on command courses have been less than anticipated. Regardless of peoples perception of easyjet the training is extremely thorough and in the most part fair. If some of our SFO,s are struggling ( with their knowledge of manuals and procedures) then external DEC candidates need to be :mad: hot. Much better than me. |
Ah I get it now :)
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I heard a rumour that the CAA are concerned about experience levels in LHS at easy and that the company are being pressured to recruit some more experienced captains. I wouldn't go there:yuk: just saying what I've heard.
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And back to Monarch???????
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A lot of nonsense speculation going on in this thread; people are taking snippets of facts and arranging an elaborate story which just doesn't reflect the reality of the situation.
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I clicked on this thread to offer my support to the guys and girls at Monarch, but found a thread full of Orange tosh. I'm sure the Monarchists don't give a toss about "Command ready F/O's on Euro contracts" or bases in AMS/LIS/OPO or even the rumoured new base at Moonbase Alpha.
The Monarch crews have invested their professional lives tirelessly in Monarch which is where a secure future should be their well earned reward. The spivs in the city have presented a challenge to the team at Monarch that no inflight emergency could replicate, no training has been given for the avoidance of a financial emergency! Having been there myself, following a failed MBO at a UK regional, I could not have a lower opinion of the "suits", who can move from deal to deal with a fat bonus, leaving hard working, highly skilled and dedicated individuals high and dry like flotsam on the ocean of financial incompetence. Good luck to you all and ignore the pillocks at the cheaper end of the market who seem to think that this is an appropriate time to wade in with the smart comments. |
Let us all remember how it all started. It is rare these days for a UK airline to have a bit of history that is still around.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps0351b288.jpg |
That photo is amazing. I can almost smell the air!
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I have heard a whisper that the rumoured orange DEC holding pool desired is ten guys tops.
This being to cover the possible command course failurers from next years 160-odd command courses. Mostly because fleet expansion is going to be quite a bit more than planned. There is only the possibility of a tiny orange lifeboat it seems. |
Flew down to the Monaco Grand Prix on that aircraft, many years ago. Ah nostalgia.........
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I could not have a lower opinion of the "suits", who can move from deal to deal with a fat bonus, leaving hard working, highly skilled and dedicated individuals high and dry like flotsam on the ocean of financial incompetence. I am ex Monarch and have been reading this thread to see if there is any worthwhile information, lately it mostly seems to be about Easyjet recruitment and how Monarch's problems will affect them. May I suggest another thread be started by Easyjet pilots with regards to their future employment conditions etc.? |
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