I must have come to the wrong thread, I thought this was about the plight of our colleagues in Monarch !

The deadline is today, get back on track.

When I read posts like the very good one posted by enzo999, it makes me absolutely furious when I hear of 'public sector workers' going on strike due to some measly 'grievance' trumped up by some politically inspired union. Not one of those public sector 'workers' face having to uproot their families to some culturally alien corner of the world in order to maintain them. Not one of them will have their wives crying themselves to sleep because of that. And the likes of enzo999 would have been paying an absolute fortune in taxes to maintain that public sector 'worker' in his cushy position.

To add to that there is not as much solidarity amongst pilots as many would like to think: many of those losing their positions and wanting to take up jobs in other UK airlines would face pilots in those airlines looking down on them and saying "We don't care about all your experience and expertise, take your place down there at the bottom of our seniority list and don't you dare think of threatening my cushy position". It is not only the bean-counters and managers that have no regard for experience and expertise, it is often other pilots too.

This is a horrible industry. It has fantastic safety records due to the experience, expertise and hard work of its pilots. But it turns and kicks them in the teeth without a second thought. And its not just the bean-counters and managers often doing the kicking, but also sometimes fellow pilots. I have seen many directly and heard of many, many more situations where pilots have had absolutely appalling disruption to their lives and heartbreak for their families. This is a horrible industry.

It can be absolutely fantastic flying on a lovely day, watching a beautiful sunrise or sunset, but this is countered by those nasty CBs, howling gales and snow-closed or foggy airports; not just in pure flying terms but also in the 'figurative' job security terms with bumpy employment terms, financial bad winds through the industry or closing airlines. This is a horrible industry.

Good luck everyone in Monarch*, and if you end up in a crew-room with me you are welcome, regardless of how much you have on your shoulders (literally and figuratively!).

Scallywag
 

This is the plight of our Monarch colleagues!
If Monarch adopt fully the LCC model then they will have to adopt the techniques employed by EZY and RYR re costs of FO crewing. They will have to compete

If Monarch does not survive they will be on the dole or heading for the Sandpit...if they are lucky.

I hope that things turn out for the better for the people at Monarch; I'm just not sure what that is?

Trossie, what a nice post. Thank you

Semi Skilled or Skilled?
The problem is one of perception. The general public is the 1950's through to the 70's regarded anyone who flew aircraft as a bit special. The golden years of a new and romantic industry in a time when Travel was something special and largely done by only an elite few. From there on we have become regarded as arrogant and overpaid in the 80's and now, finally, as little more than an overpaid train driver. The last, IMHO, is down to the impression that we do little other than stare at the screens and read the newspapers, automation has damaged our reputation by making the mundane part of our life, flying from A to B, appear easy, which it is compared to a pilot of the 1950's. But, on a dark and stormy night, with a failure and little excess fuel we become the highly skilled professionals that the public rarely hear about.( Capt. Sullenberger being the obvious exception) And we are worth a darn sight more than we are paid and deserve a darn sight more respect than our employers regularly show us.
It doesn't matter how OFTEN you have to use this skill, it matters that you have it ready when it is needed.

well the good news is we got paid last night so fingers crossed for later. Must make sure I take my visa with me on my flight today just in case I have to make my own way home :)

Line up ,

I agree with your post & many others on here but we need someone like Balpa to start & help us all out here.


If you look at how much Balpa are getting from pilots annually , it's an astonishing amount of money .


I have been on at my crew council but think we all need to push our own colleagues to get Balpa to talk pan company & do something to provide a framework for looking after our careers.


First Choice a couple of years ago made redundancies & went to great efforts to help the unfortunate few get replacements.


Wouldn't it be great if Balpa could actually DO something on our behalf particularly for those who , like the more senior guys at Monarch have a great deal to loose , if they were interested in helping they could perhaps negotiate with other companies who we know have a requirement for Captains & experience , to prevent these guys loosing everything when there's insufficient time to rebuild a pension fund or re-climb the ladder.


I hope Monarch don't need it but let's get on with it before its too late .

I don't know the answer I'm affraid Line Up but I do think more pressure on the CC to do more for the general pilot workforce would be a good start !

Monarch operating Business as usual tomorrow according to Twitter, so either the sale is completed or the CAA have extended their license. Going to announce the news in a few hours.

I thought an announcement was due by mid-afternoon? As we are now heading for close of play...
Does anybody know anything?

ATOL
 

The CAAs ATOL check function has just been taken off the air for maintenance. Might be an update on its way for COSMOS.....

Meaning the plug has been pulled ?

The route cause lies with EZY and RYR who have ruthlessly driven costs out of the airline model at every level to deliver "cheap" flying for the masses.

If the information is correct SWA have cheap prices and high salaries and happy crews and pax. If they can get it right why can not the copy cats?

I'm not a member of BALPA or IAPLA, but, I read your distrust and lack of expectations here, and quotes of past lackings. I'm curious. BALPA seem to do OK by BA, or am I wrong. How much of the 1% of non-BA airlines go back to helping their causes, and how much goes into the BALPA pot which is directed towards helping internal local BA causes? Surely there must be an audit of BALPA accounts and you will be able to see how much has been spent, and where, and see what return you've had on your investment/membership dues directly with your company. Equally, about 4 years ago there was a massive drive by IALPA to recruit RYR members. They must have had a massive influx of cash, easily over €1m, but what have the members seen for their contribution. Just where does all this dosh go? There seems to be a black hole, considering how the unions have allowed the industry to decline in economic standing for its members. Someone must know.

Have you ever seen the car park at Balpa House ? They don't have the uncertainty of the cut throat commercial World either !!!!

Sold to Greybull Capital

http://www.monarchholdingslimited.co...ybull-capital/

Completion at last!

The Monarch Group - Monarch secures ?125 million of permanent capital and liquidity facilities through sale to Greybull Capital
They better not let all those years of hard work, dedication and professionalism go to waste for the sake of short term gain. Monarch staff past and present have sacrificed SO much for the sake of a continued future. My best wishes go to all concerned.

So Monarch are gomg lo-cost and short haul only ,but Ryanair are thinking about selling holidays and Jet 2 are going into long haul to SFB next year with an A330. Seabury consulting are US based where charter flying does not exist so they come up with a plan for Mon to be a minnow against the lo-co big boys. The family meanwhile have invested £50m which is strangely close to the deposit for the B737 max which Seabury have decided the airline needs even though it is shortly to become a purely Airbus operator.Another part of Seabury helped in the sale of the company.
I wonder if all the ties lead back to Lugano or the Lady Marina?

As an ex Monarch employee I am delighted to hear the news.

I wish everyone at George VI Airlines every possible success.

However, is it realistic that this revamped operation can make money in the shadow of EZY and RYR. without their economies of scale ? whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit.

So sorry but if the spotty M is still operating this time next year I will eat my hat.

(PS four of the airlines I have worked for are no longer operating so I DO know how such things effect ever single employee at every level and the heart ache involved )

waco


"whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit"



As an ex employee, you obviously weren't in the DB scheme....otherwise you would have read the details of the pension in the email sent a few hours ago.

Suffice to say, Mon will not be saddled with any deficit.........:mad::mad:

Good...I'm pleased.......really am.....

But how are they going to make money....................

This is awesome good news. We do not need a whole industry dominated by two major players. Monarch will be small and time will tell whether their scale is great enough to cope and generate what will be required. But significant changes have been made and huge sacrifices taken by the staff. But it is a good brand so I am hopeful. So so pleased that 34 aircraft are retained instead of 30. This has made a difference in terms of the number of redundancies. I think that all should be really happy that this brand stays in the air. It will not hurt or threaten EZY or RYR so all should be cheered by todays news.

Perhaps the question will be......

Can Greybull make a quick killing by splitting MAEL, Runway slots, 737 Max line slots plus other assets and make a fast buck. This would perhaps be especially attractive if the pension problem has been solved ?

Were Greybull involved with the Comet electrical company when that business went wrong ?

Re post 514

I am a Monarch pensioner. I haven't received any such email. Care to enlighten us further?

Cheers.

As the ink dries, the reality of greybull trying to turn their 125m into 400m+ will set in.

The disposals of non core business will help.

And also the exit planning. Like 3i in Go, greybull will be selling on and you couldn't go too far wrong replicating ezy business model.

Ps I take it that the family have not invested in greybull?!

waco,




Seabury Designs a Turnaround Plan to Bring the Airline to Profitability –

Monarch Achieves ₤200 Million in Reductions of Annual Costs

October 24, 2014 05:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Seabury Group (“Seabury”), a leading global advisory and professional services firm, announced today that it has successfully advised the U.K.-based Monarch Airlines Group (“Monarch” or “the Group”) with respect to the completion of its strategic review and restructuring program. Under the program Monarch has secured ₤125 million of permanent capital and liquidity facilities provided by Greybull Capital LLP (“Greybull”) anchored by a ₤50 million capital commitment




So we save 200 million/year.....and this year we lost 60m.

I'll leave you to do the maths!

What assurances have the staff had that the business is a going concern?

Plenty, in confidential correspondance from the company .....but we wouldn't (and contractually, we are not allowed to either) divulge them on a public internet forum.

Tubby Linton - SFB for Jet2? I've heard about the damp lease airbus but though it was doing regular Mediterranean route? For example filling it once rather than doing 2 flights a day to same destination.

LVL CHG crew room gossip, but also heard in SFB

New T2 Office
 

I'll help with the maths, the shrinking of the business and its employee cost base will save £200m a year.

The shrinkage of the business & fleet will also shrink the revenue, so long as the revenue shrinkage doesn't exceed £140m then they'll break-even assuming a £60m loss this year.

Like most i think it would make sense to sell MAEL off, LGW slots are another matter, but if Davis favours a second runway at LGW the value may go up or down, but playing bucket & spades short haul LoCo against EZY & NAS will not be easy money at LGW however much the brand is cherished by the nation.

Monarch has been taking on easy and Ryan on its core routes for 10 years and holding its own in a shift from charter to scheduled over that period that is already 90%+ complete. Now with a realigned cost base and unencumbered by the pension deficit the future looks much better than it potentially did last week.

Let's not pretend Greybull aren't in it to make money. Of course they are - any investor would be. But with the 737 MAX 8s being delivered between 2018 and 2020, in order to maximise the gain on their investment, 2020 or later looks like a far more likely exit point at which to float the airline. In the meantime the fleet will continue to modernise with new Airbus a/c continuing to arrive. Greybull will only be able to sell the airline on if it is a viable business, at which point hopefully the staff will see some payback from an IPO if that is what happens.

As for the maths, yes the revenue will be reduced by operating less aircraft, but the cost savings in staff pay, lease rates, and the various other compromise deals are very significant and now make Monarch a very lean single type operator from S15.

....and then a 2 year transition of mixed fleet with the intro of the 73M with all the associated additional costs in training/IT/booking engines/inflexible crewing and duplication due to two types. Just seems that they have the potential to get on their feet after a very difficult period....and then introduce a whole load of expensive complexity (albeit "only" for two years).

Boeing will be paying for the retraining which, in the scale of things, is not all that significant anyway. Easy did it the other way and I think they survived it.

Seems someone had itchy trigger fingers on Friday.

Could have been awkward...

Anyone hazard to guess what possibilities there may be to reverse the decision to go Boeing now that Greybull are in charge?

The Boeing deal is confirmed now I believe and includes credit for the delay for the Monarch 787s that were eventually cancelled.

An asteroid could have hit us on Saturday. Could have been awkward.

Bestofficeintheworld.
Please. We have had enough of the doom and gloom on this thread. We can all speculate as to what could happen to :mad: up Monarch from here. The Monarch guys have had a tough time for quite a while now and do not need any more negativity. Now it is time to be positive and hope that the new management mean what they say and have the skills to carry it off. They have an immediate PR hurdle to over come and some decent advertising might help.

Bestofficeintheworld

This is my opinion based on my limited knowledge and a small amount of research based on my interest in Monarch, so I'm happy to be shot down but....

Comet - Greybull were a minority investor with no board representation, it was not Greybull, nor any of the final investors that caused its downfall, but the collapse of the Dixons merger. Creditors panicked causing a suffocation of cash flow. They were able to do that due to the significant stock assets at Comets disposal.

MAEL was indeed the most profitable arm of the monarch empire last year, however the fact that Monarch airlines was the largest contributor to that profit need not be underestimated. If you were a business family of let's say Swiss nationality but Italian descent and you owned an airline, an aircraft engineering company, a tour operator and various other travel related enterprises that all traded off each other, would you be tempted to move money between these companies in an efficient ( but legal ) manner so as to minimise your tax bill? How else could an airline survive for 48 years on next to no profit? Good will?

Airport slots - I am open to correction, but I believe airport slots cannot be sold between airlines. They can be returned to the airport authority and then auctioned off or sold as part of an airline sale. They may well be the companies most valuable asset but they are of no value to Greybull unless they flog the airline (which may well happen, but is not as bleak an outcome as what you have suggested)

737's - correct... I don't believe that an absolute firm order is in place, however the reported deal is worth £60m and the commitment from Greybull is around £125m so the theory doesn't add up.

Company cars - I don't get down to the LTN offices all that offices all that often, but from what I remember it hardly resembles the top gear car park. At the last check my base manager was driving a very nice but not over indulgent Ford Mondeo.

Not wholly innacurate, but most definitely doom mongering. There are massiv battles ahead, and significant sacrifices have been made, but Monarch are in a far better place than they were 3 months ago.