AdM
 

AdM,

Do you consider a year long probation period to be fair? Or is it now the bare minimum?

I would consider a 6 month probation period, from day 1, to be sufficient. At least, it always used to be sufficient.

My thought does swing towards whether eJ are using the year long probation period as an insurance policy against the inevitable ups and downs of our industry. It allows for lay offs at will in case of a business hiccup.

Others may view a year long probation as the bare minimum for an airline to decide if the "product" they recruit is of an acceptable standard. Perhaps with so much inexperience, many with type ratings in hand, about it is a necessary evil?

It could, I suppose, be either.

AdM please do not take this as any kind of bashing, it is not. You are clearly very well informed of the workings of eJ however I do feel at times you (and some others) somewhat gloss over a little of what is on offer. No doubt actually having the NEC is a very good progression from what there was before and that has been down to the hard work of you guys in eJ but people should still understand the full picture.

It is my understanding that (by all means correct me):
1. For the first year you are a contractor not on probation. You will be treated as such.

2. eJ can and have in the past stood pilots on these terms down at will, especially during the winter time.

3. After your first full year you will sit an interview, people have failed at this stage it is not a foregone conclusion.

4. If successful you are now a full time employee and will enjoy the full benefits on offer and of course with enviable job security.

I personally know of 5 guys that have been through the mill (albeit before the NEC), 2 of them were dropped. One on his performance and the other as he was taken on in July and after TR and Line Training was stood down for the winter and dared to question the management on how he was supposed to survive. Before anyone says the second guy should have known what he was getting into that is not the point I'm trying to make. He was a contractor and was dropped as soon as he put his head above the parapet, plus only has a few hundred bus hours in his book which is useless elsewhere as he didn't get to the magic 500.

Apart from that 2 of the other guys are still there and seem to enjoy it although they do say it is very hard work at times.

ADM you're still missing the point. What relevance is all the new commands and their T&Cs this year and next to people joining now? How many of the guys applying now will be given a direct entry command? None. I'm not talking about the next 24 months, i'm talking long term in excess of five or ten years. Current figures being batted around for time to command that are joining the company now. T&Cs for current commands are not guaranteed for guys joining now. So whats the point in listing them?

You cannot argue the fact that T&Cs in easyjet have been eroding for the past five years. I think you're either management or a fool if you think Captains salaries or bonuses won't be targeted in the future. Just because BALPA need to be actively involved won't stop easyJet from trying it. BALPA had roaring success with stopping Flexi-Crew didn't they? And if you don't agree with revised Capts T&Cs (when it happens) what will you do? Strike. Good luck with that one. :ok:

When I was there I came across just as many Capts who left BALPA as those still in it. Say's a lot!

I will never disagree that Easyjet are big contenders and here for the long term. Yes that's a positive. But that simple fact is why these NECs are so diabolical. FlyBe pilots recently took a pay cut but then FlyBe wasn't performing very well. EasyJet have to be one of the most profitable airlines in Europe right now and you think these salaries are competitive? Or this flexi crew year deal is fair? Of course it isn't. We both know that but because people accept these deals is the reason easyjet get away with it.

If you believe earning potentially £29,111* per year is adequate for guys with experience and families for the job we do then you're deluded. It might be acceptable to cadets with nil experience but we're not talking about them are we?

*Thats how much I would have earned gross for my hours that I flew in that company for a year on flexi crew. Providing I was paid an hourly rate from day one, which I wasn't.

EcamSurprise,

Unfortunately for him he didn't get called back, needless to say he isn't a big fan of eJ anymore.

Hundredperentplease - Sorry I may have confused matters. I assumed you joined as a Second Officer on a flexi contract as I didn't think you would start as a First Officer on a flexi contract, then get demoted to a Second Officer on a permanent contract for 12 months, before getting promoted back to a First Offcer on a permanent contract.

I had my assessment yesterday and listened very carefully to what was on offer.

Both permanent & flexi contracts are on offer dependant on; base selection, performance in assessment (incld. Sim) AND requirement. Its interesting that every single person I know who has had a successful assessment has been offered a flexi contract. Lots of bases are available including France, Spain, Italy & Portugal.

If you are offered a flexi contract you will join on a CTC contract (there was no mention of Parc). Whether you are classified as an SO or FO was not mentioned and I guess academic. After 12 months (we were told to expect a minimum of 750hrs in the first 12 months), you are interviewed and MAY be offered a permanent contract as a Second Officer on £38k with no sector pay. After 1 years service, you are promoted to First Officer and then as per the details ADM has already stated in a previous post.

Hundredpercentplease - the point I was trying to make in my earlier post was simple - I applied for a First Officers position. That was what was advertised. It is disappointing to have gone through the process and spent a considerable amount of money to find out I am probably gonna get offered the same contract as a young cadet fresh out of flying school.

Of course if they had advertised for experienced pilots to be employed on a flexi contract, I suspect a lot of us would have saved the £500 it has cost to prepare/ attend this assessment and carried on with our lives in blissful ignorance.

It does not make sense to recruit experienced pilots and after one year on a hour contract make them SO.
Since when do Low cost airlines fly with 3 pilots on a A320. I didn't know there is time to do a nap on these short haul flights so that the SO can jump in the seat to act as a relief pilot. Or am I wrong!

In the email that I got after the assessment and sim they offered a position as FO. Does not make sense to be 12 months FO to be then offered a position as SO afterwards.
I start to get the feeling that Easy has not been totally 100% upfront about whats on offer.

In easyJet, the job of SO, FO and SFO is the same except for some cross wind limitation. The difference lies solely in the money.

Ecam surprise - I can only tell you what was said. Lots of bases were on offer. I chose Paris as my second choice & the interviewer said "good choice". As for Spain it was on the slide. They did however say that some of the information was out of date.

Job was advertised as First Officer position non type rated. I still have the receipt email which says "thank you for your application for the position of First Officer".

Definately lots of bases including European bases available, permanent & flexi contracts available through CTC and the slide said on the flexi contract "expect a minimum of 750 hours pa". I suspect your 700 hrs is more accurate.

In the presentation they were keen to make what was on offer clear as they said "there had been a lot of confusion as to what was on offer".

Maybe they've just created a bit more lol

Mikehoncho - sounds like your the first person I know of who have been offered a permanent position as a First Officer. Well done.

Have you been given any idea of start date?

Ecam - interestingly in the presentation by the easyJet HR team the amount per hour on the flexi contract is based on current factored hours. This was clarified in the presentation. I had been previously led to believe the amount varied with the numbers of hours flown for easyJet. At £67 per hour x 750 hours I would be on a salary of £50,250 pa for the first 12 months. That doesn't seem right as you would then take a drop to £38k when joining on a permanent contract as an SO.

Think I'm more confused now than I was before!

Captthunder- Sorry for the confusion its probably my dutch english :)

But I am offered a CTC contract with LGW as base. I had Paris as second actually.
It was only not making much sense to me that after the first year you will become a SO. Or do they take into account your flight hours and you can become FO after the first 12 months?

I am confused.
They were not that clear in our assessment day or did I not pay attention enough hahaha.

I will be starting TR in feb and Easy in April 14.

Those hourly rates that Easy showed in their presentation are actually also not correct. They are lower the max rate is 52,-

The reason for that is because the social securities are already paid. Which was different with the old contract where you had to register yourself as a business.
That was the explaination CTC gave me

A little more confusion in the mix:ugh:

Thats £39k after tax then. Still a lot more than the £38k before tax when you are taken on as a Second Officer on a permanent contract. Just doesn't seem to make any sense.

You could tell everyone in the assessment was scared of asking any questions. No-one wanted to stand out as a trouble maker/ negative so everyone left more confused than when they turned up (everyone thought they had applied for a First Officer position only to be told they might be offered a flexi contract)

Mike - congratulations. Hope it works out well for you.

It does't make sense because the contracts that BALPA negotiated were for cadets. What the company have now done is try them out of experienced crews in the hope they get a few nibbles. When they don't get enough they'll up the offers and then we'll have a further divided workforce all on different contracts :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, since this thread is 40 pages long. What is roughly the total pay an FO makes at easy their 2nd year netto?

Also what kind of experience are guys getting in with? How many do they still plan on recruiting. Appreciate anyone taking a moment to jot down a sentence or two in regards to these questions.

Cheers !

The netto pay as FO I dont know for sure because I am not working at Easy yet. But I think its in the 51-54.000 pounds Gross range.

At my assessment day there were mainly ex Mil guys mostly TP, fighter and Heavy Jet. And 1 civilian TR'ed guy. Guys in their end thirties and fourties.

How far along they are with the assessments I dont know. I think they started in late June but have no idea how many people they invited from the thousands that applied. So I would guess they are over the halfway point.

Thank you both for the replies.

Cheers ! :ok:

A probationary period takes the pi**. Did they, or did they not recruit for "experienced pilots"?!

They can shove it. Wasted my time and money.

All guys. There were no dolls?

SB, have you been offered a position?

Actually, a probation period is a very good thing for the company. With so many people going through recruitment, there will slip 1 or 2 through the loops who doesn't fit into the environment and makes life hard for everybody, and the probation period gives an opportunity to exchange those very few with some who will fit in better.

Because you are experienced doesn't mean you will fit into every company culture.