I am not au fait with colonial sarcasm?

Scam? Everyone who makes Captain will actually make £130k (total package).

Again you colonials....

I agree, pilots are generally all out of touch with reality when it comes to T&C's in other industries. However £130k is a bloody good salary in the UK, perhaps what a McDonalds employee in Canada earns....

Err lost in translation....

Really? You have no clue do you?

Try this: IFS - Where do you fit in? £100k comes out at better than 96% of the population....

Justagigolo77, glad I made you smile today :ok:

To answer your second question if they are able to pass the skippers course then they will get skipper when their number comes up. Just recently I have flown with FO's who started the "scam" six years ago with 0 hours and now have command course dates.....

The number? There is no huge attrition of cadets, that I know for sure. In fact attrition was lower than forecast. Perhaps others can comment?

Edited to add:

I get the impression you think there is some kind of conspiracy. No one is getting in and then having their hours cut to make way for a new batch of cadets. Wherever that rumour has come from I can say it is false.

We have flexi guys at my base regularly doing 70-80 hours a month. However most of our flexi have been here long enough to be eligible for the NEC and I'm very glad to say all that have gone for it have obtained permanent employment.

Funny old pay scales at easyJet. A pilot with three years experience gets paid E105000 and one with just six years experience gets paid 130000GBP and an A320 command. Yet guys with many years of experience have to pay to join at the bottom of the NEC.

What level on the payscale do you think captains at Emirates coming back to the UK for BA start on then? Pretty sure it's paypoint 1 regardless of experience.

True, but at least they wouldn't be asked to stump up 20k +VAT and PP1 at BA is still fairly well paid.

BA used to retire at 55, BA used to have a gold plated pension scheme....

The times they are a changing.....

Hardly recent developments Phensocks. And the loss of both are more justifiable than the prevalence of pathetic zero hour contracts that the likes of easyJet and FR employ.

Yesterday I flew with a highly compitent flexi crew F/O aged 22. Has been with the company 2 years and now has been given a permanent contract. He hopes to start diminishing a good part of his debt with his full salary over four years.
He can join the share save schemes and also start his future command etraining modules.
He WILL have his command by the time he is 26 years old and reaches the required high standards.
At 26 his remuneration package will be not less than £115000'per anum

So at 26 years of age he is very nearly debt free.
Earning in excess of £115,000 per year.
I see these guys every day pulling into the staff car parks driving cars I could only dream of a few years ago. Now these dreams can be a reality, if I wasn't married!
Not sounding so horrific now is it?

£115,000 salary is high but absolutely justified 100%

The faster time to command at Easy would offset the £20k type rating cost many times over.

Factor in climbing the property ladder sooner then the financial benefits continue to compound.

BA do have A380s and nightstops in the Caribbean though so that's cool if that's what floats your boat.

I think that should read COULD have his command by the time he is 26 years old subject to passing the command assessments and the command course.

There are a number who do not get a course allocated at their first attempt; there are a few who fail the course despite the efforts made to avoid such an occurrence and there are a few, very few, who falter after the course and are demoted.

Just bringing touch of reality to claims.

Edited to add: anyone earning captain's pay at EZY before his or her 30th birthday is doing very well indeed compared to the rest of the population considering that other young professionals of a similar age will not be earning anywhere near that figure. The problem is how to achieve greater in the 35 years which lie ahead. Or retire young. All depending, of course on the price and availability of oil in the mid 21st century! :hmm:

It is nonsensical to even bring into play what these new entrants MAY earn in 4,5 or 6 years time.

Far to much can, or could, happen in the intervening period.....including a new captain contract that easyJet could very likely choose to introduce.

It's up to individuals. If you can accept a FLEXI contract, then that is up to the individual.

I'm more disappointed that a company (that once again UPGRADED its profit forecast yesterday), doesn't see fit to employ ALL it's pilots on full time contracts from day one.

End of story as far as I'm concerned.

Narrow,

The points you make are valid, and the rights/wrongs will be debated till the cows come home. However, I think the original point was that there is the potential for a new entrant to EZY now to be LHS in much sooner than if they joined TCX, TOM, BA - which in terms of total lifetime earnings / debt servicing can make a significant difference. We are planning on 100+ Commands this winter.....with steady, measured fleet expansion over the next few years .... so the opportunity is there.

Can we just sum this up by saying if you want the job, take it! If not bye bye!. Easyjet is not perfect and yes I'm tired but it certainly is not the worst! Good luck whatever you.

King Dong - you are in the wrong thread my friend. You don't want to work for easyJet and we don't want you to work here either. Good news for everyone. Bye Bye.

Antonov09 - if you get a great deal at Norwegian with a permanent contract, with a free uniform no less, after 2 years (why do people complain at easyJet's one year?) then good luck. Enjoy.

justagigolo77 - If you do not want to work for us that is absolutely fine. If you think that a salary package in excess of £100k per year is not sufficient to fund your chosen lifestyle then the airline industry is clearly not for you. I am not sure which cadets you are referring to who left because they were getting zero hours, but I do not know about them. As you may have observed, that does not seem to be a problem for our new entrants as the latest contracts given out were straight in at £38k, permanent and on Year Two of the NEC. Not good enough for you it would appear, but plenty good enough for everyone else as they seem to be accepting in their droves. Anyway, whichever bank it is you are working for paying £250k a year, I trust it is enjoyable. For the rest of us humble airline pilots, we will just soldier on trying to earn an honest crust in the skies above.

Then we are both happy my friend:ok:

Alexander de Meerkat, I will be sure to contact you when I need to renew my car insurance.

Perhaps we should meet over a beer then Alex and I'll show in forensic detail how the hours I had received under flexi were so appalling. I'll also show you how CTC threatened me with renaging against my contract when I told them I was leaving. All because easyJet never rostered me with sustainable hours. Yes one month I was flying 60 hours but the next I could be flying <35! In fact my other half could earn more than me in winter months and she was cabin crew! Call me old fashioned but I don't think that's right! But I guess for you it is acceptable because people in their droves are accepting such treatment. :ugh:

Oh I don't have kids, a mortgage or fancy new car and I was still struggling to live a life under the flexi scheme. Is it morally right for DEPs to accept such deal with a promise from you they may (but might not) be permanent after a year? I'm sorry but I would need more than a 99% chance to commit to being flexi screw for another year. Maybe the more prudent amongst us will wait a year and see how the new guys fair and if all is successful try again. After all there's no seniority list so if you have the hours for command now what harm will waiting another year or two make?

I think digressing and discussing cadets here is irrelevant. Yes the NEC offer is better than what I had when I was there and I think I would be grateful should I be entering at the current point. But this isn't about cadets is it? This is about experienced pilots whom are looking to further their career. Personally I think they are very low risk and deserve some respect with regards to a competitive offer from day one. Being competitive 4-6 years down the line has too many pitfalls. To start with no one here can guarantee T&Cs in the future so telling anyone what they'll earn as a Captain before they get there is irresponsible.

Others may well disagree with my opinion but I have worked for easyjet. I could see the disloyalty and left because I'm a very cynical person. One Captain even told me to leave when a better offer appeared because even he was so cynical about the future at eJ. We had some great conversations! For what it's worth I'm probably earning about £15k+ More per year gross at my current company. Compared to mates just transitioning to 75% perm contracts. Flying exactly the same aircraft, in the same way to the same places. So does easy still sound like a fantastic deal? Where's the icon for what a load of wan*?

If experienced guys really want my advice. Wait for another twelve months. I won't disagree easy is a good place to work with regards to crews and routes but that's about it. Hey if they don't stop expanding you'll have just as much opportunity next year.

It looks as though I can't accept the offer made to me. £38k as a Second Officer and having to move to LGW, with no flight pay is not a suitable offer. I want to make it work but I physically can't with current commitments and the need to pay for a TR.

I know it's not all about the money and yes future prospects should be considered etc etc. But at the end of the day you have to make it work from day 1 and this offer won't allow me to make it through the first year.

ADM et al.

What garbage. The only reason this has been offered is because so many rejected the first pathetic effort at getting away with treating us like crap. Otherwise why did all those CTC contracts get offered first.

77W. I can only sympathise. 24k for a TR then 39k for the first year sadly isn't going to work for anyone with a responsible attitude to fiscal responsibility. Once accommodation is accounted for you would be working for free.

And I do chuckle at this "well if you dare to complain about it we don't want you' garbage. Translates as "if you don't bend over and do as we want and don't dare to complain about it then you too can join us in the race to the bottom.

Lisbon shows what this company wants to do to future terms and conditions. Please bear this in mind if you're making the move and doing the sums based on anything else.

Best of luck

Right lads we hear you!. Bye bye. Best of luck.