Is an EZY A320 with a cadet too dangerous?

Why would EZY pay more than the market rate? And at ~£40k, we're not talking about a liveable wage issue.

One chap mentioned he's now a captain earning >£100k. This is impressive, albeit EZY's captains in 10 years will not see that outside of training positions etc.

Equally, the option may exist to apply to BA - something which EZY FOs and indeed Captains have done. The TR should help, but alas this is for the cream only.

FANS, you expect serious paycuts on top of inflation for us in ezy then? A UK Captain will be on about 115 k/year including sector pay plus 7 k pension on top if he has 5 years in the company which the vast majority do once they become captains. Continental captain will be on 150-165 k € which was about the exchange rate when the first one was made.

A lot of posters seem to hate ezy, which is fine and fair, but I fail to see why they apply then. Hours in a log book hardly makes you indispensable and as far as I know, BA and the like starts you on pay point 1 of 34 when you join.

I expect the salary for NEW Captain's to decrease materially from that of the market over the last decade+.

This follows what has happened with FO's T&Cs, and indeed a BA cadet from 20 years ago probably earned nearly the same as an experienced EZY SO/FO call-them-what-you want today when you factor in allowances, pension etc.

Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
 

100k is achievable as SFO. SFO basic in France is around 80k I think. And yes: there have been SFO offers both for Germany and France. Permanent FO offers in Italy. (Due to time in company requirement). Offers were done based on performance, not just previous experience.
And why are you talking about UK tax? As if commuting to the UK would be the default situation?? You pay tax in France: 1 or 2 monthly salaries depending on situation.
Good luck everyone!
I have been here 8 years; it's boring at times (maybe most of the time) but it truly is the best circus around.

38k a year? Susan well done for telling this shower where to stick that.

Disgusting.

Maybe we should get that militant bugger Bob Crow to start a pilots union!

Would love to see him and O'Leary at it.

:8

What you get upto in your own spare time is upto to you:=

Sure, now if they would just write that into my contract...Meanwhile, back on Britains Got Talent...

And that's what you have to weigh up against the initial offering when reaching a decision should you be offered a position..

Keep in mind that Ezy have some flex on their expansion plans should the market change and that your unlikely to get a command at your home base unless its LGW. Mind you at LGW you could succeed in securing a training position as an F/O, I understand some have become TRI's so some of that experience might be rewarded if you impress the right people.

My advice would be to look well ahead, get as much info as you can and make a reasoned decision. Bit like flying really.

No guarantee's, that's why it's a punt. For some the pro's will outweigh the cons for others they will not. DYOR

Sure Ashling, agree with all that. Fact is though, at the assessment day, we were told that there would be permanent positions offered, and that SFO would be offered on a "performance" basis. Now, clearly I don't have the exact details of my assessment, but I was led to believe I'd done rather well...

Would I accept a base change for command? Hell yeah! Am I prepared to put everyhting I currently have at risk for half my current salary, on a non permanent job, with no assurances of anything, nevermind command? Nope. I suspect that in your day, you joined an airline as I did, and expected to get a command in the time frame you expected-which by all accounts you did. Let me ask you this though, if for some reason you weren't a Captain now, had served more than the time expected for command, probably weren't going to get a command for another 5-10 years, but had a secure job, would you expect to apply for a position that was OPENLY targeted towards experienced pilots, and then discover that they instead were going to try and recruit you on cadet terms?

Also understand, that you cannot be considered for command in easy until you are a permanent SFO. If there are no assurances as to when this happens, your time to command is extended by an indeterminable amount.

Too many things up in the air...SFO should be the least an experienced (truly experienced) pilot should expect. Anything else is an insult imo.

Right, I've debated this enough, but I wish all those concerned the very best, and if I am fortunate enough to be surprised by easyjet, then I will look forward to operating with you...

Susan (off to wash my nuts).

SuBo et al,

There are experienced SFO's who are presently in the 'command process' who purely on numbers are looking at 2 to 3 years to the LHS.

As a consequence the very same are looking at the sandpit as a more attractive long term proposition.

I'm sorry to tell you it is.

These SFO's have over 5 years service each and are number two hundred plus on the list.

They have been told 2 to 3 years and that's why sadly they are looking elsewhere.

They are skippers in the RHS imho.

Thats a very general statement.

Yes some people might look elsewhere, but the majority aren't.

And does that even make sense? People are leaving to do what? Spend even longer in the RHS?
If they're leaving, it isn't just because it's a couple of years to wait until they get a command.. which is still shorter than in most other airlines.

ECAM my comments are quite specific to some of the most experienced FO's at our base. They are not and were not general comments.

One of their arguments is that another 3 years here is another 3 years closer to a wide body command at MRats.

(as an aside my mates son left easy 9 years ago; Got command 5 years ago and is now left seat A380).

I've flown with so many guys over the years who would never consider going elsewhere...:ugh:

Interesting, how do you know there will be 120 commands next year? My guess would be that no one in eJ knows exactly how many there will be next year as nobody knows what the market conditions will be like next year. You also state that there is no seniority system which may be true however I would think there are plenty of SFO's already in eJ that are a known quantity and have good experience so is another additional 1-2000 hours of a newcomer really going to jump ahead of someone who has been with them for 5+ years and has reasonable experience of their own?? Sure they most likely would be ahead of all the cadets and perhaps FO's but SFO's? Maybe they will, I'm just posing the question. Not sure how they can have a good relationship with the union if that really was the case.

Again I'm only posing a question. You mention 3-5% growth, 250 pilots per year and you clearly believe that eJ is a fantastic place so attrition should be mighty low. I've read that attrition in the airlines can be around 3%, with eJ being so wonderful let's say 2%. Add the growth top end of growth of 5% gives 7% requirement per year. If 250 pilots is 7% then eJ must have around 3500+ pilots!! I thought the number was a little over 2100, which goes together with the 4-5 crews per a/c. Where do your numbers come from or am I mis-understanding something? Also where are the new a/c coming from to allow this growth, I thought the current order book was almost complete apart from a few airframes with the next batch of a/c due to start arriving from 2015 which is 35 a/c over 3 years, all before the big NEO order start arriving (which no doubt will be delayed).

It is all written in the monthly newsletter...it is no secret :E
I would add up all the flybe slot take over from next year in LGW, interesting time ahead :rolleyes:

@EcamSurprise

Thanks for the info.

Ah ok so anyone with approx just under 3 years service give or take should be eligible to begin the command process. Accepting the fact that there isn't a seniority system I take it that there is one when you're signed up for this process or is it still a free for all (clearly not union friendly if so)?

I've read that expect in recent times a min of 6-7 years for newcomers for command, that means that following your information and believing that most likely 99.999999% of FO's will sign up for the command program once eligible the experienced guys that join now will in fact have closer to a 3-4 year wait and not a 2 year wait as previously reported?

@GEKO & EcamSurprise

I therefore guess that at least half if not all of the 120 guys (seeing as they all need to start over the next 10 months) ready for the command upgrade have their course dates and are all good to go?? Maybe someone over a hundred on the list might like to confirm that on here. Excuse my sceptism but I've worked for a few companies and all of them hugely over inflate themselves in company wide newsletters after all who wants the hear that in fact there are only going to be 50 upgrades next year!

I'm also still waiting to hear from someone who can mathematically explain how all this expansion is going to happen? There are clearly plenty of people on here that give eJ a glowing report and therefore they must have an exceptionally good retention rate, much less attrition rate than 3% is my guess. As far as I can tell less than 10 airframes due over the next 16 months.

At around 5 crews per airframe and say an attrition rate of 2% from say 2200 pilots that's equates to 144 additional crew max for 16 months giving an annualized rate of 108, far short of the 250 previously mentioned.

Just to explain, I'm actually a backseat supporter of eJ and believe that overall they are most likely one of the better employers however to me the Maths that are being mentioned by supporters (i.e. employees) simply don't add up so please someone explain it to me.... Support your company by all means and I'm all for that but don't simply say things to big up your company, some people here are trying to make exceptionally crucial decisions so real facts are what's needed not "my dad is bigger than your dad" comments. :ok:

Although taking it with a pinch of salt only a fool would completely ignore the recent report from RYR. As much as I believe eJ is by far the better service provider, and therefore better placed, it doesn't mean they are immune to similar results. Someone loading themselves up with debt for a temporary contract will be a life changing decision but could go either way.

So guys, if you are now joining on permanent SFO contract(3000+ eJ factored hours), what will be your time to LHS realistically?:rolleyes: Heard from some interviewers ,which were on assessment day, that it can be fast, dunno if it is true:rolleyes:

Mr-P: Your calculations of attrition do not take account of the large "BA retirement home" contingent who joined eJ post 2006 in large numbers and who are all now due to retire again!

If you join EZY now and fullfill all requirements for upgrade already - looking apart from the company development requirements - , I guess you can in theory be in the left seat in 2 years time +/-

2 years because there are a lot of SFO's/FO's already in the queue and once in it, there is a slot to be followed so you would get behind them if they have the hours. At the moment there are around 200 who will be ready when their time comes, however there will also be a number who fail the process along the way.

What is the time in BA/Virgin/Emirates/Thomas Cook/Thomsonfly/ect ect?