Anyone here who did the assessment at CAE in Oxford on February 19th and would like to share whether they got a job offer?

DEC positions cannot be tied to a particular base. The Master Seniority List determines who goes where, and if there is a demand for people at LGW at the time you are employed, you can go there provided people ahead of you in terms of seniority are not taking those spots. Likewise, if the base is downsized, lowest seniority will be affected first.

The MSL is strictly enforced by the company, so it may take a while for you to get where you want. As far as pay is concerned, get OSM to send you a sample contract. Perks are there, free commuting from home to base, crew meals, uniforms, job related expenses are reimbursed and decent staff travel for you and your family, and even friends.

Christ almighty will people stop listing crew meals and uniforms as a 'perk'.

By all means mention that you have to pay for your own uniform as a warning to others but don't suggest it's some kind of gratuity.

Echo the above. All points mentioned should be taken for granted in a serious company.

But the company is contracting some carriers forACMI due to lack of pilots .
They should hire NTR for the 737?

Direct Bondi,

I have no idea what your obsession is when it comes to slagging off Norwegian, but my guess is, you don't work there, and never have. Your comments are also grossly inaccurate.

Yes, you are right,there is no MSL mentioned in any individual employment contract, BUT this is clearly governed by NPU and was the basis of the last negotiations that resulted in industrial action. One of the key points of the dispute was that the company would strictly enforce the MSL rather than differentiating between K-area (Scandinavia), Euro bases and long haul. This went through and is enforced - FACT.

Further to your inaccurate claim that the MSL is not enforced, proposed country based seniority lists rather than a company wide MSL, have been voted down across the board, and yet again, the MSL is here, it is being enforced and it is here to stay.

In future, please stick to facts, and in the meantime, throw another shrimp on the barbie mate, surely Down Under you have more important things to worry about than the goings on in a Scandinavian airline.

november.sierra,

You seem confused and completely sold on Norwegian’s “employment” snake oil.

In one paragraph you state, “Your comments are also grossly inaccurate”, followed immediately in the next by, “Yes, you are right, there is no MSL [Master Seniority List] mentioned in any individual employment contract”

Norwegian’s direct hire (employee) pilots are the only recipients of any employment law seniority rights and collective union agreement with which Norwegian must comply. Any seniority benefits granted to Norwegian’s third-party, agency employed pilots, are entirely at the whim of Norwegian’s questionable management. If that seniority benefit is removed, individually or collectively, agency pilots have no legal recourse directly with Norwegian whatsoever.

It is implausible that Norwegian’s unionized employee pilots would strike in support of an agency pilot issue. It is also implausible that agency pilots would strike in support of Norwegian’s unionized pilots (as proven during the strike in March 2015).

Clearly, you have no concept of the extent of Norwegian’s employment circumvention and the associated loss to agency pilots of employment law, employment rights and employment principles directly with Norwegian.

The Norway press reports regularly on Norwegian’s misguided idea of labor relations. I am curious, which of the obsessed newspaper comments listed below would you consider grossly inaccurate? - Take your time, I’ll have another shrimp:-

DN News, Dec 4, 2015
"It emerged very strong testimony in court which in my opinion very damaging to confidence in the management of the company and created the basis for settlement. A continuation of what we heard on Tuesday would have been so devastating for Norwegian short and long term that the company had no choice but to arrive at settlement" [the out of court settlement of asacked Safety Officer]

DN News, Sep 26, 2015.
“Half of Norwegian’s pilots want to quit” and “75% of pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer”

Dagbladet News, June 19, 2015
"This smells of punishment and discrimination, says deputy Vegard Einanin PARAT, which organizes pilots and cabin staff in English [Norwegian]"

Dagbladet News, 18 May, 2015.
"Kjos accused of exploiting desperate pilots"

DN News, Mar 4, 2015
“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”

Dagbladet News, March 3, 2015
"Feeling exposed to a witch hunt from Kjos" - “Dream job was a nightmare”

E24 News, Jan 26, 2015
"Threatened pilots to sign a new contract using aggressive tactics and threats to revoke contracts if pilots did not sign"

DN News, Nov 14, 2013
"None of them [agency crew] want to come forward for fear of their future with Norwegian"

Nettavisen News, July 10, 2013
"English [Norwegian] intimidates officers and employees from expressing themselves"

DN News, Dec 13, 2012
"Within Norwegian threats of reprisals against crew being used in daily operations"

PARAT website:
Paratluftfart

Nettavisen News website:
http://www.nettavisen.no/

E24 News website:
http://e24.no/

DN News website:
http://www.dn.no/

Dagbladet News website:
http://www.dagbladet.no/

Bondi
 

Using newspaper headlines to prove a point is a bit unreliable, one only has to see the reports of other aviation related topics to find the press to be less than accurate.

While there are issues with the Norwegian employment model that need to be addressed your opinions do have a hint of being an anti Norwegian taliban.

The truth of the matter is that in the current environment there is a pilot shortage in Europe and the management in all the airlines will have to deal with pilots moving to those who offer the best T's & C's.

It follows to keep pilots management practices in airlines will have to improve of there will be no pilots to manage.

There`s a pilot shortage in Europe? Really!?!?! :ooh: Then why the H do people still sign up for SSTRs, P2F scams and accept BS contract work? If this argument is true, then none should have to go down that path, as long as you are found qualified by an operator to fly their aircraft, without having to pay for the privilege.

I actually find it quite refreshing to read Bondi`s posts, though it may seem he has a grudge, he is at the same time writing what a growing number of pilots are saying. I will also agree that newspapers, all they way from the tabloid press to the more serious ones, are no experts when it comes to aviation reporting. First, get the jargon straight, then the facts. Of course they are colored either left or right (or wrong). Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet is one of those. Previously, they never wrote anything to criticize O`Kjos. Only happy stuff when he got to play the smiling underdog, you know, the kind we Scandi-folks so much adore. But now, however, the tune has a different melody since said newspaper is leftwing and socialist. The truth might be caught somewhere in-between, but there is no doubt that he is a master of loopholes, and has a nonstandard way of getting his will.

As for employment there, I have no idea at the moment. It appears that things change every now and then, but never for the better. Maybe once or twice to boost morale, but the trend is clearly negative, and the downward spiral is dragging the rest of us towards the drain and into the sewer. :=

Guttn
 

There are no end of pilot wannabes just out of the airplane driver factory's with the ink still wet on their licenses and a theory knowlage of FMC that leaves me for dead. Unfortunately you can't base a rapid expansion of an airline on these people without experience in the left seat.

The pilot shortage in Europe is with experienced captains and first officers who are suitable for command.

Thank you for the information. All very helpful.

Surprised to see this article is dated Apr 4th , & NOT April 1st as I suspected. . . . . . . I am now truly lost for words



Norwegian Air to hire Turkish pilots

Not surprising at all. Between 2013 and 2014 NAS hired a significant amount of Ryanair pilots. Then the unpaid leave started and a host of other issues. All of a sudden the music stopped. I don't know of one FO in FR applying to NAS short haul now. I know lots going to BA and lots more that have gone and are going to Thomson and quite a few more gearing up for the next round of Thomson assessment days planned for May I'm told.

Norwegian holding road shows in the Middle East and Turkey is not surprising at all. The supply of experienced Boeing drivers applying to them in Europe has simply ran out I suspect.

Why would they apply for Norwegian when qr pays nearly twice the amount with proper rosters, contracts and leave... no bank guarantee BS either.

It appears that there is a 787 "Roadshow" in Istanbul, so, I guess they are looking for rated Turkish (Airlines) 777 drivers, rather than the Turkish (nationality ) pilots that the Turkish media would like to insinuate, but, nonetheless . . . . . . . . Yep, they have burned their boats with their seasonal employment malarky in Autumn 2014/ 2015 in terms of attracting ex FR bods.

Hello guys! I don't know if it is the right post to write this, but I am quite new. :rolleyes:
I have been called from Norwegian for the screening day for the Contracted First Officer B737 position.
I saw that there is a Compass Test the day of the interview? does anyone know what is about?
I also get from the email, that there is no sim assessment... and it looks weird. Does anyone can clarify this things for me? thank you very much in advance.:O

Do you have a 737 type rating already?

There are no sim assessments for FO's joining Norwegian, either with or without a type rating. But be careful if you are not type rated, because you have to pay up front for the rating, but they can bin you anytime during the course. No refund!!

I am One Norwegian.

I joined this airline because I thought that it was different.
Not blue and yellow, not orange or any other low cost colour you might think of.
Because I thought that Scandinavian values and culture ran right through the company.

I was promised that after 2 years on an agency contract, I would get a Scandinavian one or its equivalent.

It was a lie.

Over 4 years later I find myself working for a company that I never asked to join.
Working for directors and managers that I would never have chosen to work for.
In those years terms and conditions have not been improved.

Not a single thing.

In fact, quite the opposite. New conditions turn up buried in newsletters. I have my life disrupted regularly because the company that refuses to employ me messed up its calculations. I see colleagues unhappily working on board wet-leased aircraft of a standard way lower than we expect.

I see safety reports go unanswered for months, safety reports that are answered with a meaningless template, I see an AOC that refuses to engage with the crew who operate its planes.

I am One Norwegian. Part of a fractured and dysfunctional family of parts that don't co-operate or communicate.

I am One Norwegian reading propaganda on the company Orwellian intranet.
I see great words and ideas written and then see actions that show me something different.
I see a senior management, full of big expansion plans and exciting opportunities, that have become completely disconnected from the reality outside of their own office.
I see the creeping edge of a culture of fear slipping under the door - a tool to be used by those who have created a mess and now have no idea what to do about it.

I am One Norwegian who could be a part of a highly motivated team, full of enthusiastic support and energy for the future of the company.

I am One Norwegian?

I have realised that I am not One Norwegian.

One Norwegian is a hollow promise, an illusion created by THE One Norwegian to blind and deceive us. It is the Emperor's New Clothes.

I am just a crew number.
A part in a machine to be pushed around as the company wishes.
But my work done in that machine will be the very minimum.
Just a pale shadow of what it could be.

And I won't be rushing around either.

My contract will be fulfilled, but nothing more.
Flight schedules and being on time are no longer important to me.
My job will be done thoroughly and safely without regard to how long that takes.
It will always take me 90 minutes to report on a standby call out.
Non standard report times will not be accepted.

Taxiing will be comfortable for my passengers, I will not turn corners quickly or ask for short cuts on the way to the runway.
Fuelling will be monitored and full briefings will be given.
When deciding on the fuel, I will be extra cautious when deciding my fuel uplift.

Minor items will be recorded in the tech log regardless of where I am and flights will stay at the ATC allocated flight level.
In one hundred different ways I will not make any more effort than I need to. If it's not in my contract then I won't do it.

Maybe nobody will notice.

But, although I may not be One Norwegian, I am One of Many.
One of the many that Norwegian will need if it wants to make its plans work.

Perhaps, instead of One Norwegian, we need Team Norwegian.
Where people are treated as a valuable resource instead of an inconvenient expense.

Until then, I will remain what the company has made me.

An uncared about crew number. Unmotivated and uncaring about a company that turned out to be a huge disappointment.

I could be One Norwegian, but my leaders only want a cheap seat filler.

I could be One Norwegian.

But instead I am just one more pissed off pilot.

Updating his logbook and CV, ready to move on....

I'm slightly puzzled by this comment; I know someone, at this very moment, who is going through a 737 sim assessment for Norwegian. And she is one of a group who are.

Given his subsequent post think your friend might have more to be puzzled about.

One Norwegian, it took me many years to realise that when you work for a company that at the end of the day no one there really cares about you.
Your extra effort is not appreciated or even acknowledged. No extra pay for caring.
I know exactly where you are coming from. Bit if a nasty shock isn't it?
Now I just go to work and have the best day I can.
Do a search here for "I am an army of one". It was quite a few years ago now.

OneNorwegian,


Sad isn't it, that what we thought we were joining was just a facade, behind which was yet another cynical cash machine.


"Real Norwegian" started to die when the HEL base was opened back in 2010/2011? & its final death throes started when the non Scandi 737 operations were put in the tender loving arms of NAI . . . . completely knackered as an employer, as the current shenanigans over trying to establish a CLA for Spanish bases proves.

I think I might be showing my girlfriend these posts before she commits or signs on the dotted line...

Excellent post OneNorwegian! Hope an eye opener for those who still believe the propaganda machine.

six-sixty
Ever stopped thinking what the major cancers for European aviation are and where they come from? Low costs, contract agencies, zero hour contracts, self employment, cadet schemes paid by pilots, flexi crew, toothless unions....you name it.
Most of these originate in UK and Ireland and then spread to the Continent.

It does seem like the UK and Irish were at the forefront of Pay to Fly which IMHO was the start of the slippery slope. British Midland and Ryanair started it all with P2F and the others followed so now there are very few "real jobs" in our industry where the pilot is employed properly by the company he flies for and has the Ts and Cs which are associated with our industry. But they still flock in. Starry eyed and smiling but before too long they see the reality, but are €150k lighter. Sad. One Norwegian is right in his post and it should be shown to all prospective pilots who may then think again about their career choice.

Compass Testing is a waste of time. Maybe relevant when a pilot is very new and just out of flying school, but that's all - not at 1500+ hours as Norwegian want. Some decent hours on a turboprop are much more of a good indicator as to ability. Also I believe their recruitment is by OSM as they will be your employer.

Attachment 1118

Norwegian are now recruiting externally to fill positions at their new base in Rome Fiumicino. There was little interest internally in a contract that, currently, represents the lowest terms and conditions for pilots within the Norwegian Group.
The terms and conditions were decided unilaterally by OSM Aviation, the employer in Italy, without any consultation or collective negotiation with the pilots. This is despite the Norwegian Group's commitment to working with pilot representatives in all areas of operations.


Resource Group - Europe - B737NG Captain - J526400

It may well be, like most of these 'fancy' HR oriented assessment gizmos. However, they still need to be completed. I can't really remember what it (compass)was about, but it wasn't particularly difficult (I passed!)

These 'testing' methods are something of a lazy fix for;

-HR folks/amateurs masquerading as aviation professionals, with little knowledge of what they are actually looking for. Let's face it, you hardly want experienced & competent pilots choosing who should join:D
-Filtering the potentially huge application numbers, but with a poor understanding of what they might be missing (i.e. Experienced pilots who may not be so modern computer savvy)


Regarding OSM
I find them to be utterly incompetent, and arrogant with it. They'll frequently not return phone calls, screw up your salary and holiday calculations, and even screw up whether you work there or not.
They have an external payroll company who willingly ignore information or instructions from HMRC (U.K.) in an effort to do as little as possible, leaving you to resolve the mess they make.

Such a shame that Norwegian presented such a promising outlook, and then comprehensively ruined it, in the never ending chase for diminishing returns.

On the upside, they're not alone in this regard

question about who is paying type rating
 

Dear Folks,

I got an interview offer from norweigan to assist in November or December.
I have been reading this posts, and I am quite dissapointed and surprissed about what I read.

OSM aviation gave me the dates, and also mentioned there will be NO sim assesment for me, just compass test and HR interview and so on. It did not surprised me since a friend (F.O. type rated on b737) who got hired few months ago did the same. (Captains do have to do the sim check).

So, here is my question:
I am type rated on the Embraer 190, and currently flying. So I applied for the non typed rated position for the b737. Do you really think they are gonna make me pay for the type rating insted of offering me a training bond or similar?

That would sound like a cadet programme for experienced people!?

And if yes, when are they suppose to let me know? Cause this info i got ir when reading these posts!

Thank s in advance

Why you don´t ask all this questions during interview?, easy.

Because I wont go for the interview if I know I ll have to pay for the type rating...

Now, if someone has any helpful info, I ll be most gratefull.

Thanks

You are not likely to get an answer from anyone who actually works for NA.
Not sure why !!
I would try to get the truth from some horses mouths. There are several threads on NA and the vast majority of posts on all are not complimentary at all. I am yet to see any real rebuttal from any current flight crew.
It has been stated several times on here that you pay up front for type rating but that may have been changed recently.

Yes, come on OSM/NA pilots. What is the truth ?

One Norwegian offers a very strong post. Sounds terrible. Unfortunately, I feel like this industry is now devoid of any "caring" or implicit employee contract. What airlines are actually caring for their employees in this LCC world? It's just a business these days where the bottom line is what counts.

JaxofMarlow, thank s for the info, and for answer my question.

Samca, if I ask those questions here, its cause I wount go to the interview if I know in advance that I ll have to pay2fly in case I pass the screening.

One Norweigan, very interesting post where I can see your frustation, I hope this is just temporary. Obviously, i cannot give you my opinion since I do not work in Norweigan, however I will take that opinion seriously in case I have to choose between my company and norweigan.

Thanks again folks

@ onenorwegian.

The best move that I made in a long time, was to leave Norwegian.
In the end, it was the lies and dissepttion that I had difficulty dealing with.

Hi dude,

I'm also attending the assesment for NTR 737FO on November 29th so send me a private and let's be in touch, I'm also flying the E190.

And I would appreciate if any folk could give some information about the Advanced Conpass Test.

If someone else is going to do the assesment in November/December send me a private so I can make a WhatsApp group to share information between us about the assesment.

The best move I also made was to leave. The worst move I made was going there in the first place.

This is typical Norwegian. Have not heard anything good about them. I know several guys/gals who joined as FOs in the past 12 months. Some of them had sim assessments and some did not. Some had prior commercial or instructing experience and some were zero hours cadets. No consistency in who was sim checked and who was not. Utterly bizzare! Some of those who had done a sim check even ended up on the same TR as those who had not!

GF had just graduated from one of the major 3 flight training schools and was recruited by NA direct from them. Just completed TR and already allocated base from early next year.