Well, it looks like jet2 missed the boat with the TCX seasonal guys who have now been offered permanent 100% contracts.
However, it gives an advantage to the people who remain interested in a position. In my interview last week I made it clear that I would only be interested in a 100% roster, something at the time the interviewer was not willing to offer. Maybe in the light of this news jet2 will wake up to the fact they can no longer take advantage of the employment market: Maybe a tipping point has been reached?

Good luck to all & don't sell yourself short.

Hi Minty,

In answer to your question, I discussed this with a guy on my open day and we came to the following conclusion .... can't see how they would enforce the £4,500 if you never started training with them as it was explained the bond was to cover "initial sims and line training". If you never got to that stage then I don't see how they could enforce it. It would take a clever lawyer to argue that case.

i.e. If another airline hires people in the interim and Jet2 lose out on someone they wanted then they have only themselves to blame for penny pinching for a few months and not offering a 100% contract up front.

It would appear that TCX has recognised that come April finding a qualified pool of pilots eager to sign up for 7 months will be harder now that the sandpit and companies like Jet2 are scooping up people just now in their droves. The pool is being overfished.

I genuinely hope this is the first nail in the coffin of P2F, line training bonds, 70% contracts etc.

Hello guys,

I am type rated on 737 with low hours.Are there people in the same position as mine?And without answer received at the moment?
Thanks and good luck to pilots with a contract...

Jet2 recruitment advert was out again yesterday, maybe they have some more assesment days planned?

I still havn't had any contact either way..........:ugh::ugh:

I'm afraid I think you'll find that Jet2 are under the impression that pilots are still in cheap plentiful supply. They are telling us that they have had overwhelming interest from applicants at all levels, even from those in the sandpit wishing to return to the UK. The end of p2f no where in sight yet I fear. As for the £4500 bond, I would think it depends what you sign for - ask a solicitor.

Doesn't really tie in with them doing a recruitment drive in October for a March start and TCX putting all their seasonal pilots onto 100% contracts for the first time.

HR Departments and the management pilots at all low T&C airlines will have a rough idea of who has applied as Emirates send for references before interviews. They will also be aware that BA and Virgin will open recruitment soon and DHL are starting too.

Nobody with a TR been offered anything yet?

A colleague of mine has just told me Jet2 have got a half page ad' in this weeks Flight' looking for B737/757, Capts & F/O's T/R'd, Non T/R'd, Experienced, Non-Experienced, ANY base.

If this is correct, does this mean, they aren't getting anybodies or does it mean they realise the whole debarkle has been a bloody shambles & they're starting again?

Answers on a post card to.....

I'm more inclined to think that they have interviewed around 120+ in the past week for 100+ jobs. Within that they will find that some are not suitable, some currently employed who went to Leeds to see if "the grass was greener on the other side" and some not willing to accept their T&C's despite being fully briefed before going attending.

When you combine that with a start in about 4 months they surely know that a number they select will be snapped up in the intervening few months by a host of other airlines who seem to be growing their pilot workforce then an extra advert seems to make sense.

They may also have a higher attrition rate than projected over the winter from current employees.

Does anyone know how likely it would be to get a 757 Belfast base as an FO with a type rating already? Can you apply for 1 base in particular?

At interview you will be asked for your base preference, and also if there is a base or bases that you will not accept; final allocation of places is based on the company requirements and it would be up to you to accept or decline the offer.

At the moment we don't have a 757 in BFS.

I hope there is some news either way today!

I would have assumed that by noon on Friday that there would be at least a drip feed of posts announcing a positive outcome, especially after what was alluded to last week.

Did anyone end up hearing anything today or over the last couple of days?

I cannot imagine them rushing to offer anything. Why not just read PPRUNE and see how much lower they can go would, I think, be their best bet.

I know of one person at Eastern who has been offered a job, a first officer was told on Thursday.

Notice gone in £16000 type rating cost

I gave up trying to second guess Jet2 at 5pm yesterday, felt I was wasting too much of my limited and already diminishing cells to do so. I feel you need a PhD in Chaos Theory and a Masters in Quantum Physics to even get close to an idea of what they are up to.

For a J41 command? Seriously?

Good post, Split. Coming in at the tail end and having not read all of the foregoing, did the Company keep any of this Summers temps on ?

I have to say that it is just a bloody market place & both sides, us, as pilots and them, employers, will respond to the prevailing conditions. I do think that we have done this to ourselves, BUT, wholly understandable. There will always be a group who will always do ANYTHING in order to advance. That group will be preyed on by commercial operators. All of this history but J2 will learn that if you prey too hard, quality will suffer.

For those fortunate enough, walk away from this dreadful mess. For those scambling for a foothold, at any price, grab what you can & move on, quickly. Be loyal to your Licence & professionalism. Not what is painted on the side of your aeroplane.

I do hope that Cameron’s excessive cutbacks don’t set off a double dip.
If we go ahead with paying for the TR (and I am finding it hard to get it anyway) what happens if we are laid off having paid the money?

No insurance will cover the loss....

If I can acquire the capital, I hope that Oxford don't expect it all upfront - daily payments only in this climate me thinks.
And sod paying 20% Vat:{

VAT back
 

Can the VAT not be claimed back? I thought SSTR ryanair guys claimed it back?

Anyone heard anything? Are there any offers going out?

The first beats on the jungle drums by the end of the week. In the meantime I reckon their training department has underestimated how much time and effort they need to bring everyone up to speed (by which I mean ab-initio guys TR'd and line checked (40 sectors), non 73/75 pilots TR'd and line checked (20 sectors), already TR'd guys LPC/OPC'd and line checked (20 sectors) + all their existing flightdeck LPC/OPC's.

It looks as if there will be a serious drain on training captains and TRI's going forward.

I don't know if the CAA imposed the 12% intake of 250hr Oxford bods so as not to dilute the company and make it have too much an emphasis on inexperience. Or if it was a value touted as being manageable. If they did I reckon they may be in the process of renegotiating with them.

I asked the IPA about the Vat and they couldn't tell me.
I was under the impression that the IRev have stopped companys being set up just to claim it back.

Any accountants out there?

What about Cameron's attempt at a 2nd dip and charging 20% Vat in Jan?

Are the prices frozen?

I don't think that you can reclaim VAT. I did a type rating with BMI Baby 5 years ago, and had to repay the training cost from net salary, and was unable to reclaim either VAT or to claim tax relief or any offset against tax at all: I expect that Sir Michael had already pocketed the cash. Talk to the tax office that deals with your tax when you join the company and see how they advise you: they can be very helpful if you are nice to them!

*****WILCO*****:ok:

You can't.

The only way you could do it would be if Jet2.com were to pay it for you, and give you a reduced salary (ie deduct an amount for the TR) pre tax, hence you would not pay tax on it.

That is how it used to work, 3 years ago.

I'm afraid in your case you cannot claim any of the VAT back, and of course need to earn a lot more than the TR to cover the cost, once you have paid your NI and tax. You are an employee, not a contractor as in most of the RYR cases.

DW.

PAPI:

Join a proper union, you'll need to if your becomming a Jet2 employee plus your colleagues will appreciate it.......... :ok: (but that's for another thread)

SPLIT:

How the hell can the CAA set out min. employment requirements? They just have to make sure that those who are employed have the right qualifications. I remember talking to the Fleet Captain a few years back who said he'd like to recruit more given the chance..........

For info, I've flown with many Oxford cadets and found ALL of them to be fine and in some cases better than their supposedly 'greater experienced' colleagues. Yes, the 'bigger picture and experience factor' is a little lacking at first but you'd be surprissed how good the general flying and SOP's are......... at least they don't have to 'um-learn' a previous type / company SOP's first!

It's makes a nice change to fly with someone who's very keen, often polite, they hang around for at least a few years before leaving and you get to pass on a bit of your old 'barn-storming' knowledge and they actually pretend to be interested!! :\

The CAA in their role of AOC oversight do indeed "give guidance" on experience levels required, and the mix of experience.

Now, time for a rant. "general flying and sops good", " lack of big picture and experience".

We are stick monkeys, if you have a licence and a type you should be able to fly. That ones a given.

SOPs. The ability to sing the company song to the letter does not make a good pilot. In these days of low timers in the right seat, sops have been tuned to become a set of "ques", ie when i say this you do that, and when you say this, i do that. A good pilot knows from experience what to do and when, and shouldn't need prompting. Thats the difference between a pilot and a machine operator.

When the poo hits the fan,"lack of big picture and experience" becomes a real problem, as they run out of ideas real fast. No bad reflection on them, they just don''t have the experience, and have been taught to rely on a book of instructions instead.

Sharing tales of barnstorming is a good way to impart knowledge, but there is no substitute for experience, and i would submit that the front row of a piece of heavy metal, with hundreds of lives relying on you, is not the best place to get it.

I remember when we used to teach ppls, from day one, to be captains. "Airline preparation" programmes seem to have a different focus these days.

End of rant.

purple,

BA,KLM,LH,BMI,BE, etc have used low time but well selected / trained ab initio pilots for many many years, generally they go onto multi sector short haul fleets first before longhaul, I have flown with both ab inito and "modular self improvers / PPL instruction" and generally the ab initio is a "better product". This is simply due to the likes of oxford, KLS etc knowing their trade, ab initio pilots are trained from day one to do the job, the others have proven in the past to be a higher training risk. As time goes on and experience is gained there is little difference between the two.

I believe all oxford cadets will be going to the 737 fleet, a great aircraft to cut your teeth on, multi sector busy days. The 757 is not a great aircraft for low time pilots mainly due to the long sectors and lack of landings and take off. Jet2 have recognised this and are recruiting experienced pilots to the 757.

bluepilot are you saying 250hr Oxford cadets are better than 1000hr ppl instructors or 250hr modular guys/gals.......or both?

Purple Pitot - Spot on

Some of the info spouted on here and taken by many of the uninitiated as gospel is a load of rot.

1st - to learn fresh SOP's for when joining a new company is not beyond the capacity or ability of 99% of commercial pilots within a few days. You may call for something at a different altitude, time or place or change the order you do something but come on, its not beyond anyone to assimilate new information quickly and put it into practice. It's like saying when you go to the US on holiday you won't be able to adapt to driving on the other side of the road.

2nd - I've been to airline interviews where there have been sim checks and no sim checks, psychometic testing and personality profiles and others that don't. One thing that is constant is your character and if they (as a captain) could envisage sitting with you for 9 hours and would go for a pint afterwards.

3rd - The Mod vs. Integrated debate has raged on other threads for ages. Yes both methods have their pro's and con's i.e. where you get consistency and a polished product from an integrated school you get life experience, independence and strength of character from going modular. At present in the UK many CP's like the former and the remainder prefer the latter, neither one is wholly correct or completely wrong.

4th - I've found the IPA particularly helpful and approachable in the past, can't say the same for BALPA. I'm just waiting until they change their call screening to "press 1 for BA and Virgin" UK based bells and whistles call hander with a background in employment law, "press 2 for charter airlines" some sweatshop call-centre in Delhi and "3 for everyone else" continuous dialling tone.

However most of these points don't have anything to do with recruitment at Jet2 so why don't we keep things on track.

Actually SPLIT, it does, kind of. When i joined jet2 7 years ago, the training system was geared towards low timers even then, and they went to great lengths to kick any previous command experience out of me. However, on the line , my experience came in quite handy on a number of occaisions.

After 3 years of unfulfilled promises and pay cuts, i left for better pastures. Great flying with some really good people, some of whom are still there for some reason. There are better ways to pay the bills.

Alot of resignation letters going in at Eastern.

Offers made from J2 for both 757 and 737.

Folks with decent Saab time offered DEC in some cases?

Differing amounts being talked about for the type rating. Anywhere between a bond and full £25k depending on who you listen to.

DEC for saab driver? Things must have changed a lot. Turboprop drivers were considered second class citizens on my course!

That my have had more to do with Cheats Thieves & Clowns than jet2 to be fair.

Not sure where you got your info from but this is not true; yet. One senior FO has so far resigned. Three other people have had sim rides and are waiting to hear from Jet2. The captain you refer to is also yet to hear from them, and although a current turboprop captain, he has a lot of jet time in his logbook.

Hi Guys

Did anybody else get an offer (or otherwise) today?

I know of a few still waiting to hear..

Care to eloborate your offer?

b727
 

If as you imply inexperienced pilots are as good if not better than "more experiences colleagues" why not replace both pilots with them? (you included)