Maybe they are trying to sell you a timeshare over lunch (which is included).

I too have been invited for an "assessment" on the 14th..

I'm type-rated with lots of jet time and to put it simply, I don'y have a 70% mortgage...so won't be able to do anything other than a full-time contract...we'll see what they offer!

This whole exercise has developed into an embarrassing and insulting shambles. This two bit outfit, which someone has rather generously described as professional, dangles some positions in front of an ever increasing group of individuals looking for a start or an opportunity to progress in a once great industry.

But instead of setting out their stall cleanly, clearly and honestly, with a fixed set of terms and conditions, they actually commence a fishing expedition, evidenced not least by their telephone "interviews" which primarily consisted of embarrassed individuals trying to elicit what is the minimum package you will accept! And if you should dare to show any interest you might be invited to an assessment day at their shiny HQ (sorry adjacent hotel) Assessment? My a*se. It is only then you might but only might get to learn the shameful details of the package on offer....stuff you should have been able to establish on their website or at least during that phone call. Disgusting and appalling.

On this thread alone, here are obviously many enthusiastic and even suitably qualified pilots but is that enough? Clearly not. Take for example Turkish 777 (if he/she doesn't mind) Type rated and about one season's experience on type. Admittedly, relatively low overall experienced but not insubstantial either and definitely keen, heaven sent one might think for an employer eager to keep costs down but even that's not good enough so he gets a Dear John letter. Either they are getting shed loads of super type rated and experienced guys or they want to cream off the excess from the type rating costs. Evidence on here would suggest it’s not the former.

To those who have "missed" out, I truly hope and believe this will be a good miss in the end (Turkish 777, your TR expiry or LPC to be precise, is not a huge obstacle and can be renewed quite quickly for a few hundred pounds should that be necessary, not ideal but don't give up).

To those who told them to p*ss off (even if just metaphorically) well done.

To those already working for these shysters, don't take this as an attack on you, I know from a wealth of experience that every airline almost always has a great bunch of guys to work with in spite of crap management.

I f you care to look back to my opening post of this thread, I wondered if this was a forward looking company, advertising so early, what a joke. Overall, I think it is absolutely tragic to observe what companies like this are doing to the people in this industry and the hoops they are getting them to jump through just to get a job, not even a good one. I have always believed that good will win in the end but I do have serious doubts sometimes.

Also got a phone call today (Thursday) about attending the open day on the 14th, busy flying so unable to go but don't think I would anyway, was told its a 70% deal which is no good at all, I was just polite and asked a couple of questions but not going to quit the other Devil FR on the high rate old brk contract to move to an older aircraft and get a 70% package, likewise my Mortgage is 100% so never going to work unless all my outgoings suddenly accept 70% also.

shame really as base wise it could be good.

also cant see the point of the open days, enough info on here and other places to need to sit for an afternoon with them, offer 100% competitive deal, interview me and offer a job, then we can talk serious.

Starbear, an excellent post that sums up this Jet2 debacle.

I'm sure the Jet2 Flt Ops people must keep an eye on this topic and I hope they are suitably embarrassed. It's a pity that none of them have the spine to pass on their discomfort to their leader but by all accounts he sounds an unpleasant character - probably a futile exercise.

I know Jet2 don't operate into Coventry but that is where we, the pilot body, should send bottom-feeding outfits like this.

I must admit Jet2 were a company I liked the idea of working for. This so called recruitment exercise has changed my view on that now. Their whole recruitment process just seems to be a poorly planned attempt to see what they can get away with. Thats not the way to build a happy, loyal workforce.

The only good thing I see about it is it will take a load of people out there willing to throw £1000's at getting what is at the end of the day a job, out of the market. This may lead to better offers from the other airlines when they start recruiting. Im assuming that is part of their plan. Get the people with deep pockets whilst they can.

Respect to all of those who turned them down, other airlines will be watching and hopefully taking note.

Good post Starbear :ok:

And contrary to my user name (A character from the film Snatch) I am English born and bread so a native speaker, ICAO level 6 so it wasnt a case of that. And like you said I thought I was quite a good candidate.

Thanks for the comment regarding the TR. Its just the IR expires with it which is a pain as most requirements for vacancies require a valid IR. And being unemployed I just dont have the money to hire out the SIM.

Turkish

Nearly all airlines I know will renew your LPC as a matter of course, during training - should't be a deal breaker

Nice one, thanks Yorkshire-Pud, makes me feel more confident.

Weird email address I got the PFO from [email protected]

Bond Test??? Maybe it is all a test to see whose willing...or a matter of getting the feelers out???

Starbear:ok:

What can they possibly tell you at the information day? Nothing.
The Jet2 Flt Ops people should be embarrassed about their assessment centre and the rest of the recruitment exercise.

Tech questions were badly formulated with the use of ( ... ) parentheses, sometimes type and company specific and a few times there were no correct answers possible or lacking info.

Candidates were offered different packages and payscales.

One got offered 100% contract, others 70%.

First you pay 20k quid for the TR, two days later 25k.

:confused:

Well said, Starbear. Words I particularly liked were: "disgusting", "apalling", "crap management", and "shysters"!
Work for this bunch only if you absolutely have to; they have disgraced themselves and the crews who already work for them. Better jobs are out there. Much better.

I think that people who know nothing of the company or management should refrain from using such words personally.

Whether you agree or not with the choices made by management is one thing, but to publically slate them in such a manner is totally unprofessional.

The economic state of the industry dictates the market and until recently Jet2 were THE ONLY airline recruiting in the UK, so why should they not try and get people in on reduced contracts? The people that came in on 70% this summer were happy to do so and have now been offered 100% permanent contracts. Where is the issue in that?

The industry changed for the worse a few years ago and I don't personally agree with the changes we have seen, but Jet2 remain a good company to work for and I won't sit back and see them be described by some of the words used in this thread. It is not only offensive to me, but also my colleagues.

End of rant.

A Student of Jet2?
 

Starbear is correct and accurate in his/her description of this company.You are trying to make escuses for this type of behaviour on "Market conditions". Just because one can get away with exploiting and making a mockery of what used to be a respected proffession to the benefit of very rich CEO,s and shareholders does not make it acceptable. There used to be principles of decency,integrity and respect. Shame on you and all the other "pilots" who advocate this conduct.

I quite clearly state that I do not agree with the changes being made, however I can see why they have been implemented. So I am not shameful in the slightest. All I am stating is that some of the terms used in this thread to describe the company are quite embarrassing.

The industry started going downhill when people started paying for type ratings and I am one of them. I hated having to do it, but If it were not for me writing the cheque, I would be an unemployed pilot with a f-atpl and very little chance of ever getting a job.

Jet2 are trying to survive and prosper in a very competitive market and not go the way of a few of our other UK airlines who are no longer with us. They are creating jobs when there have been none and ensuring the futures of their existing work force. I don't have to agree with the way its being done, but "shysters" is a very strong word.

Because the current facts indicate that they have failed to predict the current market trend, whereas as soon as Emirates announced recruitment, many on here could see it a mile off. As a PR exercise, it has been awful. As a recruitment exercise, well, only JET2 can know how they feel about that. However, I suspect that they will nevertheless have the numbers for interview they require, though it grieves me to acknowledge human failure over militant socialism in the workplace.

Just another student
 

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am but addtitionally I try not to chuck words around too lightly:

shy·ster (shhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifsthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifr)n. Slang An unethical, unscrupulous practitioner, especially of law.

Jet2 as I indicated earlier in this thread have always been cheapskates (for that read greedy), I recall their start up terms and conditions (in a good market) do you? Short answer is, they were WELL below the market norm for the time but they got some people, probably on the same basis as now but others, who were keen for a first command. So this present insult has nothing to do with the present economic situation.

The UK charter (or even semi-scheduled) model has always been the same, for as far back as I can recall. It is simplicity itself to fill any number of aeroplanes in the summer. The great difficulty is the winter of course and that's where the more mature companies had to improve to succeed as will any others. But did they start of with such appalling and insulting terms? No they did not.


I think you need to open your mind a little more. You have stated that you don't necessarily agree with what they are doing but in the next breath you said That is an appalling indictement. When you say that Jet2 are creating jobs, what do you mean by that? Are they "creating" jobs to help take pilots off the market or are the jobs being created due to their expansion plans to earn more money for them. Although the net effect is the same for an unemployed pilot, they are not the same thing. Please don't preach as if the likes of Jet 2 are being altruistic.

Jet2 not only want to pay bottom dollar, they want to 70% of bottom dollar as well as force would be employees to front up for their own training above and beyond that already paid out. Why do they do this? Because they can. And rather sadly you defend that viewpoint.

I take back not one word of how I have described this airline's management (see earlier post for exceptions) and you mustn't assume that there are not people posting here who just may know a bit about these people and this industry.

Man is not judged by his words or thoughts alone but by his actions.

I completely agree with Starbear. The fact that they only increased the 70% contracts to 100% AFTER the busy summer whilst paying 1/12th of 70% salary each month shows that they have no morals. How can they be a good company to work for, when they treat you like this????:ugh:

My point of view is simple. I do not agree with the degredation of t&c's for pilots that we have seen over the past few years. I do not agree with pilots being offered 70% contracts and having to pay for training etc however given the state of the industry over the past 2 years or so, I can see why they are trying to employ cheaper pilots. Summer demand versus a quiet winter, I do get it and I don't think that people should be asked to work flat out over the summer and then take a cut over the winter.

Nobody is forcing guys to take the contract, it is there own personal choice and as I stated before, people that have joined in the past have been offered 100% permanent deals, as they rightly should be.The point regarding not being back paid for the summer months, I can not comment on at all as I am not aware of the situation.

Jet2 are not the highest payers, but then they have not made people redundant or attempted to force pay cuts on their work force during this economic turmoil.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course and I know there are people on here who do know what they're talking about. However I just find the word "shyster" when used to describe my employers as distasteful, whether or not I agree or disagree with the way recruitment has been handled.

Starbear i am assuming that you will not be accepting the contract that Jet2 offered you ?
Oh hang on are you going to tell us you didn't apply and would never work for such degrading terms and conditions, but are standing on the sidelines supporting pilots conditions generally ?? I think we can do that ourselves than you very much.

Lets lay a few facts on the table, Thomsonfly pilots accepted i believe a 5-7% pay cut so in effect were working for 95% salary for one year and next year the management sacked the bottom 100. However the threat of redundancy for approx 6 months forced many to seek jobs in the so called "sandpit". The threat of redundancy forced many to jump before they were pushed. Excel great terms and conditions are no more. Flightline mis managed growth led to a financial situation that eventually led to the demise of an airline.
Now if you were to ask those pilots ,who lost jobs that led to relocation of families abroad or even worse to total loss of income, would you work for 70% with an almost cast iron (as much as there can be ) assurance they will have a job in two years time i think i know which option they would take.

I see BMI made such losses this week that one Accountants view was they couldn't see how they would continue as a going concern and Lufty are only putting £60million into the business. Again more pilots who must be sat at home wondering which way to turn next. I have been in an airline that has gone "bust" recently and i know how awful it feels and how desperate that feels as well and i personally do not want that to happen at jet2.

The government is about to announce a spending review that will effectively make thousands redundant. Those made redundant will not be taking their second holiday which is traditionally a winter break. The amount of free cash floating around this country in the next 12 months will dwindle and therefore you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that holiday demand and demand for flights may dwindle. Therefore the prudent sensible airline tailors its growth to the predicted set of financial conditions in the coming 12-24 months.

The point i am making is that aviation may look as though it is recovering, its all smoke and mirrors as i think its as fragile as it has ever been. The pilot employment market is recovering if you wish to work in the Middle East. BA offering 80 jobs, Virgin offering "a handful" according to the internal memo is not a recovery in the UK pilots jobs market.

So back to Jet2, i actually see it as unfortunately necessary to grow slowly and pay pilots proportionally to the work demand ( that sensible growth ensures the jobs of the other current pilot employees are secure). At the moment that demand is Summer and not winter for the reasons stated above. So surely financial prudence dictates that you employ the most expensive element of your business ie pilots when you need them. You tailor your recruitment to your demand, if the demand grows then you offer those pilots further 100% work, surely that is prudent management of an airline in demanding economic times ???

I know the Cpilot and both Fleet Captains would want to offer full time 100% contracts they are reasonable people who understand the demands on both pilots and their family. However if the winter is quiet with very little flying you are expecting pilots to be paid to be sat at home? Personally as an employee i would see that as completely irresponsible to the future security of the company. However i hope that work appears and all people will be offered 100% contracts Jet2 is a company that changes quickly and they have a habit of pulling work in at short notice.

The word "unethical" was used, it would have been unethical to offer people 100% and after they have joined tell them that sorry only 70% now due to reduction in winter schedule. There is nothing unethical laying the terms and conditions of each offer out to each candidate who has an offer of employment made to them. Perhaps the process has not looked perfect, however i should imagine it was responding to the changing requirements for winter crew as the work plan for winter changed.

Captainkingkong, well said.

I enjoyed my time at Jet2 the crews were great, but no matter how ethical the managers are (i have my own opinions here) I think they find it very difficult to manage whilst PM keeps micro managing.

The terms are there to accept or decline, the choice is yours. Me I chose to move on, shame really it wouldnt have taken much to have kept me there.

Captainkingkong
 

Gosh! so many words...where to start?

Firstly, you may assume whatever you wish about my plans or status...your perogative.

Secondly, it might surprise you to learn than there are people out here on the sidelines who do genuinely care about overall T &Cs. "I think we can do that for ourselves, thank you" I am sure you can, how is it going so far?

Thirdly, I don't doubt that the pilot management genuinely want to offer more but they, of course are not the management to which I refer are they? (oddly enough, as I type this, 757Flyer has just posted in your support but actually making my point for me, very well actually). But sadly again missing the point, that enjoying working for a company with a decent bunch of guys is not the point here is it?

It was not my intention to turn this into a personal slanging match but both you and the student have taken upon yourself to defend these charlatans....your perogative...again but there are none so blind as those that will not see.

Every single point you make about other airlines could possibly be viewed as a genuine reaction to these exceptional times but this not new for Jet2 as I have pointed out a couple of times now, this is their modus operandi even in "good times"

Don't get me entirely wrong though, there is not a single management team out there today that wouldn't love to do what Meeson is doing and indeed some are to a lesser extent but that doesn't make it right and neither should it be defended by employees. By all means be grateful to be employed at all right now, I think that is right but do NOT be grateful to a company for "giving" you a job because unless it was an individual doing you a personal favour (and yes, I have experience that and will never forget it) then they are only employing you because they need you pure and simple.

If any business is in dire straits through no fault of of its own then I believe almost every single employee would work for nothing to ensure its survival but again that's not what we are talikng about here is it.

Jet 2 are NOT responding to market conditions but they using them to exploit some very, very vulnerable people and pilots in particular. Well you will just have to excuse me in joining you from the sidelines and applauding in your upschool support in such disgusting way of behaviour. If you are correct (ergo I am wrong) Jet2 cannot survive without applying such iniquitous conditions, then perhaps they shouldn't be in the market in the first place.

Gosh, now I've written lots of words, didn't mean to. There are all sorts of people, people like you who will defend crap practices every which way you can and there are people like me who will do the utmost to highlight them and attack wherever possible (look at the full title of this particular forum). Who is right? I am sure we both believe that we are... I know I am.

I must just make one final point before I go though. You stated : So you actually think that it is acceptable for every single pilot doing the exact same job to be offered entirely different terms and conditions? If I have understood you correctly then I give up...well almost because I never can.

Will be away for a couple of days now but please don't take my abscence as lack of interest.

Captainkingkong,

Don't remember a 5-7% paycut.

Regards.

Hi,

At the risk of getting my head bitten off by some on here I have accepted Jet2s offer. I would much rather not have to pay for a TR or take only a 70% contract but after sitting home throughout the summer I don't have the luxury of having principles from the position of a good job.

However I see it as a job that pays £30k a year plus allowances and has 5 months holiday (a bit like a teacher). I have been offered 1 of the 2 bases I asked for so I can live at home with my family. There is every chance I could get a command in a year and even if I don't I'll have a Boeing TR and 5-600 airline hours and experience. Even if Ryan or Easy offered free TRs and 100% work there is every chance that I would be based on the other side of Europe. Not something I would want for me or my family.

I am ex military and pre-2008 many of my colleagues walked straight into BA or Virgin but today you need a TR for either company. At the moment nobody offers 'free' or bonded TRs so while its not great, for me with my circumstances it's the best deal in town. In 2 or 3 months better deals may come along but I feel a bird in the hand etc.

The people at Jet2 seem very friendly and are doing their best within the limits set by those above them. They do however seem a bit maxed by the volume of applications.

I am now taking cover, release the hounds of hell.

Regards

Binsleepin, welcome aboard! May i ask which fleet you are going to join?

I have read the comments on here with interest, sure in an ideal world things would be better, easyjet wouldnt be promoting pay to fly, Thomas cook wouldnt be getting cadets to pay for a rating work the summer then no guarantee of future employment, jet 2 wouldnt be asking for you to pay for a type rating and work initially on a 70% contact. The fact is that this industry is cyclic and things will change, as they do all the airlines will have to up the anti in order to attract / keep pilots.

As others have said Jet2 is a friendly pleasant place to work, and as it grows I hope it will mature into a company of choice. Sure there are growing pains at the moment but the future has the potential to be bright.

Some of you are not placing your work environment high enough on your priority list. It makes a monumental difference where you work, as opposed to chasing a type or money. There is a future at Jet2 – I am convinced – but to begin with it is going to be bitter/sweet.
I am not disrespecting the ex-mil pilots, but you get alot as it is. I met a 2 Herc pilots that were getting their ATPL’s paid for as part of a repat programme. I think they were off sailing after too, which they found rather amusing. I am fully aware that you have served – and I was in the AAC myself for a bit before you shoot me down – but expecting it all on a plate in civi-street is a bit much, so is rubbing our noses in it.
This is why the BA Nigel’s mince about like they are the ‘mut’s nuts’, which is a club they are welcome to trust me.
Back to my point about choosing your environment – if you want to play with the Nigel’s crack on, but if you want a relaxed, hard working, professional, friendly place to work......well it sometimes with a tax attached.

binsleepen,
brave move - I can fully understand you are keen to get flying again. Do you really think you will get a command in a year ? Sounds like an empty promise or are they really that short of FOs with the hours.

good job mate! I might be heading there soon!

binsleepen,
brave move - I can fully understand you are keen to get flying again. Do you really think you will get a command in a year ? Sounds like an empty promise or are they really that short of FOs with the hours.

binsleepen

So I was right - hand over the gratuity to Jet2. Your perogative and good luck.

But I suggest you've a lot to learn about the nasty, deceitful, civilian world of false promises into which you are emerging. The ethics and standards by which you've lead your working life to date are no longer in play.

As was mentioned, I am by no means a fan of the current situation. It may seem unethical, but is it not a tough decision needed to be made to keep everyone employed in a profitable lo-co airline. If they need to save millions to stay in business, this is one way of doing it - and probably the only quick way of doing it. If they don’t, how can they expand in the future (100% contracts etc for us) or prevent themselves becoming another XL?

The British Forces - since you mentioned it - are currently undermanned, but are still cutting back troops and cancelling their orders for much needed modern equipment. By not recruiting, closing stations, extending the life of poor equipment, giving jobs to contractors, back-to-back tours etc...are they not doing the same?

Starbear i cannot resist this so here we go.

Charlatan and Shyster two words that you used which are chosen to be emotive in the nature of identifying Jet2 and the current recruitment. Such emotive words but used so incorrectly, as you are so fond of dictionary definition i thought i would do the honours for you :-

From the OED regarding charlatan


Pronunciation:/ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n/
noun

• a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill

So you inserted an emotive word to create an image through your post that was totally incorrect as i am not sure that the term would apply to any through the recruitment process.

There is a phrase up't North "You cut your cloth according to your cap" now sadly the economic cap in the UK is looking a little shabby this morning. I see London underground are about to lay off 800, yes thats correct 800. That from a service that is almost a "demanded right " by Londoners. No where does that leave the rest of the economic structure especially holidays and travel which inherently is peoples' disposable income ?? How much disposable do think the British public will have next year.

So i see you didn't answer the question, you expect airlines to fund 100% contracts even though there is no work for those pilots in the Winter ?? Is that really what you are saying ? If the answer is "NO" well welcome aboard the reality express stopping at all stations to full time employment in 3 years time.

Now i have to quote you "Every single point you make about other airlines could possibly be viewed as a genuine reaction to these exceptional times but this not new for Jet2 as I have pointed out a couple of times now, this is their modus operandi even in "good times""

Absolute twaddle my friend up until last year all crew were employed on 100% contracts i was one of them i know. Other airlines do have poor practices, Easyjet operated a flex crew on an hourly rate, i haven't looked but i am sure you were on the Easyjet forum banging on about this and the dreadful way to treat professionals. However what is being offered here is a 70% full time contract and therefore covered by full time employee employment rights and protection. This is not a temporary contract. Yes there are different deals being passed around, some 70% and some 100% that is applicable to a candidates experience i am sure.

I need to quote you again ( this could get repetitive ) "If any business is in dire straits through no fault of of its own then I believe almost every single employee would work for nothing to ensure its survival but again that's not what we are talikng about here is it. "

Fighting for survival ? Actually i think UK plc is fighting for its survival the only people who don't seem to think that are the deluded souls of union leadership who drag cabin crew out on strike in the middle of a recession. I think every business in the next 18months will be fighting for survival especially if the double dip appears up on the horizon. So the businesses that enter the next 18 months in a lean fighting shape ready for that period i believe will survive that period, sadly and i say sadly with a heavy heart its takes whatever it takes to get through this mess. I truly hope that those who have accepted a 70% contract are 100% when the British public decide to take a Winter holiday again. I joined Jet2 knowing money was less than industry standard, but that i worked close to my home, i sleep in my own bed every night, i work hard but i get paid a reasonable amount. I think anyone who has had to work away from their husband/wife and kids will forgo that little bit of extra salary to have a job near their home town. That is also a job that will be there in 18 months time.

Final quote "Jet 2 are NOT responding to market conditions but they using them to exploit some very, very vulnerable people and pilots in particular. Well you will just have to excuse me in joining you from the sidelines and applauding in your upschool support in such disgusting way of behaviour. If you are correct (ergo I am wrong) Jet2 cannot survive without applying such iniquitous conditions, then perhaps they shouldn't be in the market in the first place."

Market conditions i think read the previous paragraph the market conditions in the Uk are dire and may get worse. Now you mentioned "very very vulnerable people" you could have added one more "very" just for emotive effect. These are professional pilots we are talking about, i am not sure i would ever describe any pilot i have ever met as "very very vulnerable" this isn't care in the community this is a group of people who make decisions on a daily basis and understand the background of decisions. More emotive stuff from your good self.

The offer is on the table for these "very very vulnerable" people if they don't want it that is their choice. I hope those offered take it, can afford to take it and i understand that some cannot. But Jet2 have been open and up front throughout from what i have heard, open and up front are they the actions of shysters and charlatans ???

Finally and this is finally i am not defending the actions of management (they are more than able to do that themselves), what i am hoping is that management protect the business that i work for so that i may still be working for that business in 2 years time. Sounds selfish ? ask the same question to the 1000+ employees of the Dart group i reckon you will get the same answer.

Binsleepin,

Firstly, Congratulations. It is your decision only, what we think is irrelevant.
I am however keen to hear the exact deal on offer ie £25k or £16k etc Money totally upfront or loaned to you etc.

You may not wish to divulge, which is fine, but when I said no to paying £25k up front and still got an assessment day, I am interested to hear if there are other options on the table.

Thanks.

That is incorrect. Where did you get this false information from?

Neither do I EPRman!

Sorry to hear that cv,
at least you have flown commercially some on here never will. My emergency plan is to become a train driver, although those seats are almost as hard to come by as flightdeck !

I just thought I would add a little history here.

Historically Jet2 used to employ contractors during the summer months to cover the extra capacity needed. This in the past has proved to be an unreliable source of pilots,
1. due to the variable quality of the contract pilots whos knowlege or willingness to learn Jet2 sops is suspect, this has caused CRM problems in the past.
2. Because of the nature of the contract not all contractors were "company orientated" when carrying out duties.
3. The number of contractors available at the start of a season is not guaranteed.

By offering 70% permanent employee contracts (that includes loss of licence cover , pension schemes etc) jet2 has far more contol over the summer workforce and the quality of the operation is vastly improved due to the pilots being trained fully to Jet2 SOPs. All the time Jet2 continues to grow then these contracts will mature into 100% full time (core pilot) contracts. The gamble is when the Jet2 expansion slows those on the 70% contract then will be stuck with it until natural wastage or further expansion happens.

Thomas Cook have for years offered summer commands and then taken on cadets who have to pay for their rating then work for the summer with no guarantee of future employment. Although the 70% contact is not ideal at least it is permanant employment!

So before this turns into a complete slagging match of how "ethical" Jet2 are, would you like to consider that the company is attempting to control quality as well as costs in a constructive fashion? Personally I would like to work for a company that has control of its long term costs, continues to expand and remains profitable despite the downturn! That secures my future and everyone elses at Jet2.

bluepilot, you said:

Personally I would like to work for a company that has control of its long term costs, continues to expand and remains profitable despite the downturn! That secures my future and everyone elses at Jet2.

Should we understand that you think it's acceptable that YOUR OWN job security is achieved at the expense of new joiners who do the same job as yourself but are rewarded 30% less than yourself ? :D

And the "maturation" of their contract into a 100% one is left to the only subjective judgment of your generous management. It could last years before -should I say "if"- it ever happens again... remember, the general T&C of this industry have been constantly downhill for a while now. This "upgrade" to 100% may have happenned recently but it does not mean they won't find a way to circumvent it in the future... we all know how this industry is.

My point is that the dramatic deterioration of our conditions is also partly the consequense of the I'm allright Jack attitude you are showing now.
We like to criticize the french when they organize massive disruptive strikes to fight for their future, but at least, they do something unlike us. We only moan or simply accept the so called "economic context" explanation we are fed with, while the fat cats are getting fatter at our expenses.

this is not an alright jack attitude, which would you prefer? retern to temporary contractors OR 70% full time employees. And yes the job security of all at jet2 is a MAJOR consideration..

I think this is a reasonable response to a problem Jet2 had to face and a far better solution than offered by other airlines (Thomas Cook was one example i used).

As always these solutions are not ideal, but in case you didnt notice there is a recession and costs HAVE to be controlled, if you think it is unethical then you have a choice.

Once the cyclic curve changes then the pilots may be in a position to improve on their terms, until then other solutions have to be considered.

No, we're out of recession. This recruitment from Jet2 is being instigated due to an upturn in the economy and a forecast growth of the business when the "very" good times actually arrive, the contracts offered should reflect that. Nobody is going to recruit 100 or so pilots if they are still "in the mire".

Bluepilot
 

It's very much a case of I,m "alright jack". If you feel so strongly about the financial security of your Company volunteer to take a 30 % pay cut and allow one new start to take 100% deal. you say it is " neccessary " to use 70% pilots, which are essentially contractors, but why is it also "necessary" to get them to pay for their training to fly for Jet 2. The answer because they can. Is it the case that Jet 2 made a profit of 12 million last year? You compare the other Airlines as if that excuses what this outfit are doing. I reiterate Starbear is accurate and correct in his description. The likes of Ryan, Easy and now Jet 2 are expoiting pilots and making a mockery of our proffession. I say again shame on you and any one else for condoning such behaviour.

bluepilot and capt kingkong,

Anything can be defended with a good rethoric and well constructed phrases based on a seemingly unquestionnable logic of economics... that's how governments are ripping off countries, or good lawyers are keeping criminals out of jail...
Ask your boss how he likes the "crisis" and how much profit he makes out of it... while you satisfy yourself with "less money than the industry std"

you guys buy it, your choice... but don't insult the intelligence of those who can clearly see out of your little bubble...
If you can sleep ok while some of your colleagues doing the same job as yourself are making 30% less money than you, then I sincerely hope that you are not part of the "great bunch"