I am afraid I disagree. The CC have not been pulling their collective fingers out on numerous issues. The Company play hard ball and the CC generally except what is presented to them. Last year was a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY Missed. The Company got away with it then and no doubt will do so again this year.

However, there are too many members who are impatient and expect results immediately, these are also partly to blame. If you stick to your guns you WILL get results but don't roll over the first time the Company refuse the next proposal.:= And don't accept the first counter offer from the Company:hmm:

1. What balls to suggest that the CC only talks for half the workers, because a). they were FOs once, and (much more important) b). they negotiate for the whole pilot force. If you've got an idea that only an FO could think of, send it in.


2. They ain't missing the chance this year - thats why nothing's been heard. It's all getting VERY messy. Blood everywhere apparently.



;)

Flybe Pilot Recruitment Day
 

I'm thinking about going along to Birmingham on Friday and having a chat.
To be honest I don't know much about this company at the moment - anyone got any useful info/inside knowledge, etc.....
Cheers

:hmm:

Jim French would be a useful sort of man to contact. He's about to become exceedingly rich.:O

Not if the current pay talks blow up in his face

:hmm:

Longish article in yesterday's EDP, of local interst given the man's Air UK past.
This was the gist of it:

Flybe plans to float in 2006
UK low-cost airline Flybe is considering a £200 million ($354 million) stock market floatation in 2006.
The carrier, which flies out of Liverpool John Lennon Airport and is also based at Birmingham, Exeter and Belfast City, has appointed financial advisors Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein to examine its options.
It is thought to prefer a stock market listing over a private sale.
Jim French, chairman and chief executive of Flybe who owns a 9% stake, plans to appoint three or four independent directors to reform the firm's corporate governance in readiness for the float.

:ooh:

I have been told that he may be in for a very nasty shock in the not too distant future.:E

:hmm:

Is it not somewhat strikingly strange that this thread has attracted such little interest? At other times these pages would have been abuzz with discussion as to tomorrow's gathering. Is it to be a non event? What doesn't Flybe have that Jersey European did?:)

you just read my mind cavortingcheetah....
anyway since I'm still non the wiser about this company I guess I'll just go to BHX tomorrow and see what they have to say..

Cavorting.......I was thinking the same also !!

I'd of been keen to attend, but it seems to be clearly aimed at 'experienced' T/P or jet FO's and Cpts, and since I'm not in that category, not sure I'd even get through the door ! My 3 applications to date have not prompted an invite to interview !! :-(

CG.

:hmm:

Repeated requests to Flybe have failed to produce either the information pack mentioned in the recent advertisement in Flight International or an indication of maximum age requirement for recruitment of experienced pilots. :ugh:
Birmingham Airport and the A14 are not pleasant places to spend a long day when the answers to even the most basic questions of research have not been forthcoming from the airline. If Flybe is so disinterested in providing any motivation for those who might attend its open day; then it can hardly blame anyone other than itself if it either emerges at the end of the day with a shortfall of crew for its requirements, or fails to interest candidates who might be superior to those with which it ends up.;)
Good luck to all who do go and; secure in professional arrogance as always:
Toodle Pip!:D

Can anyone post/pm what the package is at the moment,

PPJN simply gives a salary and £1.77 an hour away from base - which isn't exactly setting the world on fire. Is there sector pay?

What is the pension, loss of licence, private medical care deal or isn't there one?

Cheers.

:hmm:

The sort of questions one hoped would be answered in the never appearing but much vaunted information pack?:ugh:

In a word yes

In several words is it my imagination or is flybe's pay so significantly worse than the other UK loco carriers to be somewhat of a joke?

:hmm:

I fear that, without the pack, no information, perhaps with the pack, ditto?:oh:

Pay is pants, £26000 Dash F/O £44 ish skipper, £32000 146 F/O £55 ish i think for a skipper. £525 annual increment for F/O`s £650 for those on the left. My personal view is we work as hard as other LoCo`s so therefore we should be paid as they are.

Yep £1.77 per hr duty pay whilst at work, if your away from base you get it every hour until you get back to base. About 42 quid a day.

Loss of licence yes we get that, can`t recall what the amount is.

Medical insurance yep we get that.

Pension yep, first year company pays 6% second 8% third year onwards they give 12%. But 12% of bugger all isnt a great deal. We are still waiting for our pay rise this year. I have a feeling management are in for a wake up over the next few weeks. lots of us leaving for better conditions. Even the Hosties have started to revolt:} en-masses they are joining a union.

Medicals are also paid for.

Max age well im not sure we have many skippers over 60.

The Dash is a good ship to cut your teeth on (when it works)full efis fms and buckets of performance, flying, you will get lots of it. I would say if your new to the industry or just about to retire then flybe isnt a bad option.

Im not supprised there has been none of the said info comming out of Exeter even for a recruitment day, @rse and elbow never have communicated with each other. The management`s idea of communication is sending out a glossy leaflet every 10 minutes telling us what a great company flybe is with a profile of some obscure individual who no one has ever heard of let alone what they do. The only time in recent years we have seen anyone senior at a base is this last couple of weeks since the Hosties have started to rebel.

The folks on the line at flybe are a great bunch who work very hard for little or no thanks. However, those in Exeter well, im not sure what their interested in but its not the work force. I susspect its`s the looming floatation where some will do very nicely and the workers won`t. Its a shame they have this attitude as flybe could be really good.

Hope some of this info helps and i do appologise for the rant:\

:)

That was extremely helpful and many thanks. Doesn't sound as though the company has changed much since a passing fokker nod at JEA and LBA some years ago.;)

Cavorting....

I know that you were probably looking for a rise, and you've got one.

There is nothing wrong with the standard of the majority of candidates who are successful with Flybe. In fact, pilots from Flybe are often looked upon extremely favourably by other airlines when they want to move on. If you are looking for a training airline, which I know that you are not, then you could do a lot worse.

I am not defending the company, just myself and my colleagues.

Q400 Pilot (Changing user name soon hopefully)

"In several words is it my imagination or is flybe's pay so significantly worse than the other UK loco carriers to be somewhat of a joke?"

YES! and it is wearing very thin right now :ugh:

JEA, they were the days. :ok:

The whole place is sadly a shambles now.
WHY? MW and JC's legacy I'm afraid with a lot of scullduggery from BA.
Unfortunately the New Management, who should have told him where to get off long ago and stop trying to Max out the crews FTL's, are still under his spell.

The doggey dealings regarding stealing our DOIL's last year and now the same Fiasco presented with different wrapping paper with the cabin crew, leave a lot to be desired.:=

If it's loco you want then Easy and Ryan or Jet 2 are far more realistic options to think about, even if you do have to go the TRSS route.:E

:hmm:
No offence intended to Flybe's pilots. Any old trout at the bottom of the river at which the barbed fly might have been directed was management.
The airline industry is at a pleasant time for flyers right now. Flybe, in common with companies such as Eastern, is only ever, for the foreseeable future, going to be a short term stepping stone airline. The threat of a bond commitment should fade into oblivion when compared with the salaries on offer from the likes of Easyjet or Ryan. A £20k bond can easily be paid off within a very short time from the post income tax differential between the salary at Flybe and those at nearby loco jet companies. Perhaps with this in mind, some bright spark at Exeter, might decide to formulate a pilot profile for recruitment more in keeping with the company's long term prospects. It would seem from this thread that Flybe's advertisement has attracted no interest whatsoever. It will be interesting to see how many are at Birmingham today when Flybe's personnel marketing leaves so much to be desired when it comes to advancing its own company's attributes.:8

Do new FlyBe recruits get an FCA application form on day one of groundschool ?

Info request
 

Thanks for your comments/replies re my original request - much appreciated. It's always useful to get a 'feel' for a company, as far as possible, before going to see them. I'm a bit wiser now than before; anyway I think I'll go today and see what sort of reception we receive - assuming, of course, I'm not there on my own!! I'll post again tomorrow to give my opinion on the day's events.....

:hmm:

One waits with bated breath and panting anticipation!
Jersey European's jet fleet used to consist of that flying tractor affair, the BA146. Not that long ago the stepping stone to a jet type rating from the F27 necessitated a long period of baseing in Belfast. There is nothing wrong with that per se, and those who moved from the UK to Northern Ireland and took their families with them were, by and large, pretty happy I think. Those who went on their own and tried to commute were miserable. I believe that the company got so tired of pilots jump seating back and forth from Belfast to the mainland that they banned the practice.
Perhaps the jet type rating/qualification carrot does not come with the strings it used to but there were many in the days of JEA who who had problems with this aspect and the concurrent issues raised by the matters of seniority and salary.
Good luck!:)

The sad thing is that I know of several pilots who like the idea of a short commute to a local base even if its for significantly less money and would probably be quite happy to stay for ever..... But the Q400 command scales are so far below even jet FO rates at any decent company that its impractical for all of us.

Seniority! your avin a Larf ain't ya?:{
Virtually all terms and conditions have been thrown out the window. They do just as they please for the moment but as smokie says they will be in for a wake up call pretty shortly.:eek:

:hmm:

It is amazing that, in a market which would seem to be more pilot orientated than has been the case for many years, companies can still use and abuse their crews to the extent that they seem to do. The inevitable conclusion must be that in reality the pilot supply market is still pretty well fixed in favour of the airlines.
Presumably any pilots who form a Flybe intake from today's little excercise in Birmingham, will join up under a contract which will predate and thus presumably escape any future wake up call? It would be in the company's best interests to bond as many potential employees as it can. By the same token, it should take inexperienced boys and girls whose financial situation will be so precarious that they will not be able to contemplate flying the Flybe coop until perhaps the market forces have changed again, presenting pilots with another downturn?:suspect:

The latest ploy is to Bond for 3 years NON REDUCING.:=
I don't know the legalities of that one but recent feed back indicates that it is unenforceable. :ok:
So sign up and jump ship when you can as you will more than likely get away with it.:D

:hmm:

A non reducing loan sounds rather like a balloon payment? In which case why should it not be enforceable?
It might be vainglorious to think that one could jump ship unscathed but it would probably be worth doing anyway.
One can fairly soon save a lot of money on what one was earning with a loco propellor operator and what one would earn with a jet operator. In addition to this differential in saving, there used to be some form of tax relief offered on self improver training costs which might apply to what would effectively have become a self funded type rating.

Air UK used to get the pilot to take out a loan with Nat West which the airline guarenteed to repay during the course of employment. The loan was a reducing one but on leaving earlier than the two year bond term, the pilot picked up the remainder of the debt with the bank. He then had the option of either clearing or continuing the debt until its logical conclusion. Clever little ploy that!:ooh:

Recruitment day
 

Just got back and, to be honest, feeling a bit disappointed with the much vaunted Pilot Recruitment Day.
I'm very keen to return to professional aviation after a 3 year 'lay off' but I don't think it will be with Flybe. I'm sure it will suit some people but at my grand age (50++) I don't really relish the idea of 4 and 5 sector days starting at some Godforsaken hour in the morning preceded by an hour or so of commuting from **** to Birmingham (assuming I was given Bhx).
Anyway all the right people were there saying all the right things (mostly), though the Flybe management team were never outnumbered by pilots, at least not whilst I was there!
Money and Ts and Cs were as previously quoted on this thread; by the way they're just looking for Q400 Captains at the moment. (Little hope of flying the 195 jet in anything less than about 5 years!).
Lots of talk about an imminent pay rise - but they would say that I suppose. Also several people saying how hard we would be working but that it will improve as time goes on, etc., etc. (Think I've heard that a few times over the last 25 years or so!).
There it is in a nutshell. Like I say it may well suit some but it doesn't really suit my own circumstances.
Anyway it's not all negative - I did get a cup of tea and a glass of still water!
Hope the inflight service is a bit more generous....!

:hmm:

Sounds rather familiar, four year lay off, 60-, and no inclination whatsoever to enter again that dreadful winter wonderland of UK short haul flying. It will never, ever get better because the airline will never, ever, employ enough pilots to operate a proper Standby system and it is the chronic failure to operate such a Standby system, especially for Captains, that is the cause of the chronic fatigue and company FTL abuse circular connundrum.:ugh: :yuk:

Totally agree!

Why would anyone want to join a company that continually:

1) Takes the p1ss out of the FTL's,
2) Tries to rob you of your leave,
3) Feeds you foul crew food with maggots in,
4) Spends a small fortune employing Union Busters to prevent the cabin crews from joining the Transport and General Workers Union?

The link below to "The Burke Group" says it all really :ugh:

http://www.djburke.com/services.aspx?cid=5

72jetjok, I hope you didn't have any of the sandwhiches:eek:

:hmm:

One very senior partner in one smaller airline once told a Captain of my acqaintance that he should not bother with FTLs because her husband, the chief pilot, had written them anyway, having been asked to do so by the CAA!:ooh:

Why would anyone join? :ugh: Sadly my application to Dreamworld airlines where they pay for the type rating, re-imburse your flying training fees from PPL to ATPL, pay 50% more salary each year, final salary pension scheme and only work 3 days a week must have got lost in the post! Get a life!

How about because we have loans to pay back, have invested years and thousands of pounds towards the training and fancy lots of flying hours in a new turbo prop! It does pi$$ me off when those already flying forget just how hard it is to get that first job on the airline ladder the minute they get the job! They may not be the best paying airline but compared to Southwest they pay a fortune!

Flybe
 

MVE, calm down mate! Although I agree with you that slagging off an airline for the sake of it is not constructive, you have to realise that this thread has the title: "Flybe Pilot Recruitment Day" and as such it is geared towards the experienced applicant, Captains and high time F/O's.

Someone mentioned that as they work as hard as other low cost carriers they should be paid the same, well it does not work that way! If you want 737 or 320 salary go and fly one... :rolleyes:

From what I can see if you only have turbo prop command time then the salary for a Q400 Skipper works out better than joining a loco as an F/O. Jets are not the be all and end all so a reasonable wage and home every night might suit some, rather than going orange or Irish... ;)

72jetjok, thanks for your input, was anything mentioned about basing policy? Did anyone else go to the presentation?

Seems like they need lots of people in all of their bases; I enquired about Birmingham and was told 'no prob'.
I was there for about 2 hours and it appeared to be very poorly attended...
not sure whether to throw an application at them or not (I'm not flying at the mo' and am keen to get back again, though I'm not very enthralled about a 3 year non-reducing bond for £13500!!).

I don't see how £13,500 is really a problem. Personally I think it is a good deal (albeit possibly more attractive to low houred candidates): they invest in you, you make a commitment to them. The amount they look to recoup if you leave is not punitive.

Even if you are intent on moving onto a jet carrier before the three years has expired, two years of the pay difference should amply cover the cost in most cases.

What do you expect if leave fourteen months after joining? A pat on the back and a thank you? In these days of SSTRs and people paying for hours on type, this bond seems a fair, transparent scheme.

sr

Slightly off topic I know, but I'm just curious about the mechanics of the 3 year non-reducing bond.

At present, the pilots effectively have a personal loan agreement with Barclays for the £13500, and each month the company pays the repayment plus interest into your account on pay day, to be transferred 3 days later to Barclays. If you leave before your bond is up, you repay Barclays whatever the sum remaining happens to be. Fairly simple.

However, if the bond is now non-reducing, does this mean it is repayable to Flybe? Have Barclays been dropped? If not, then I can't see how you can be making monthly loan repayments and then be asked to repay £13500 at any point within 3 years should you move on. :confused:

My understanding is you are bonded for the £13.5K for three years (as I am), and if you leave before then, you are liable for the rest of the payments until the balance is paid off in full....

eg. if you leave after 18 months you have to continue the (£406.22pm) payments for the remainding 18 months.....

Now a few of my friends are leaving, (I'm trying) before the 3 years are up, and what most are doing is paying the balance back in full, as the interest on the Barclays (flybe arrangement) bond is pretty high, getting themselves another loan with MUCH lower interest, paying the remainder back, and flying for another airline that pays normal wages = being much better off!

ESCAPE IS IMMINENT!

-------------------
endofeng:ok:

I think endofeng misunderstood the question. As far as I am aware, the guys with a non-reducing bond merely have a contractual agreement with the company. No payments are made over the three year period, if you leave then the entire sum is still owed.

Win - win for flybe. They don't pay any interest on loans and they get more cash back when people leave. Disgraceful!