Dear Maxalt,

Putting things in perspective, could you confirm (or deny) that you, whilst in the employ of FR, ever had to supply your own uniform(or part thereof)?
Perjury is a serious offence.........

This is possibly the most useful thread I've read on pprune. Of course it could have something to do with the fact that I am getting ready to apply with EK.

Thanks, dumpvalve, for your input--usually the wive's opinion is more important than the pilot's.

I'm not generally adventurous but my family is and I think it would be great to spend the last 15 years of my career in that part of the world.

If I were to be hired next spring, assuming the current growth, when could I expect a left seat upgrade? (Assuming I'm qualified...) Thanks in advance all.TC

maxalt, you’re entitled to your opinion, and like all opinions, yours has some elements of truth supporting it, but judging by the conclusions you reach about Dubai, I think it’s safe to say you’re a “glass half empty” man rather than a “glass half full” man in your attitudes to life. If you’re surprised by the passion of some of the Western defenders of Emirates and Dubai, try to imagine, as an Irishman, (or even just a resident of Ireland), how annoyed you’d be if ten years ago someone had flown into Dublin, hundreds of miles away from ‘the Troubles’ in Ulster for a weekend (about as long as you were in Dubai for your interview?) and then proceeded to tell everyone you’d listen “all about” life for those living in said Troubles.

White Knight How you left your last company before joining EK matters not a jot. I was merely pointing out that there is no going back for the majority of Pilots who join any expat airline so you had better like it and make the most of it.That applies to me as well.

It seems to me that everyone joining EK is looking for a quick command.Unless EK have also taken a lot of very inexperienced Pilots as well then there are going to be a lot of disappointed frustrated F/O's around when the Commands dry up.

You of course came from what I would call almost the bottom tier of UK aviation,even though as a Captain so have less to lose??

I infact agree with all you say about the UK!! Some people however seem to think that just because the salary is ' TAXFREE' that it must be a good deal. You have to consider what it buys.

As others have said you will soon realise that once in Dubai you are the poor relation compared to other 1st World expats.
In Singapore most expats rental allowance is more than my salary!!

I note you have a place in Costa Del Boy! So do most of the plumbers and market traders from South London. The only difference is they have paid Cash whereas I suspect you have a large mortgage. I would have thought you had seen enough of Sun and Sand in Dubai without wanting anymore of it on holiday!!

Maybe we can discuss this further when I perhaps join EK as a Direct Captain on the A340!!!!

Worried about the Islamic State??. I was in Manchester a few weeks ago and took a wrong turn going into town. Ended up in an Islamic, Indian State and was not very well received. I take Dubai any day!!!

Addendum

Straits Times, 15 September 2003

Aussie plan to avoid Sars may hit Singapore

“While he (Australian Tourist Minister, Joe Hockey) was short on detail about the Australian contingency plan, it is clear he has a number of options up his sleeve.
“Diverting flights through the Gulf region is one possibility,” he added…..
….. The nation’s tourism industry is worth A$17 billion and employs around 500,000 people. Another fall in overseas arrivals (due Sars) would be an economic disaster.
“Australia has to, as far as it can, inoculate itself against the risk of a further tourism downturn,” Mr Hockey said.”

In Mr Hockey’s “ruffled feather” smoothing “clarification” printed in today’s Straits Times (16 Sept. 2003), the following emerged:

High Opinion of Singapore

“It is a misunderstanding of Minister Hockey’s position to suggest that Australia has anything but the highest opinion for Singapore’s arrangements (for dealing with Sars outbreaks). That said, Australia has an array of contingency plans in place or being developed should any adverse incidents occur overseas in any number of markets.”
- A spokesman for Australian Tourism Minister Joe Hockey.

No Need for Panic

“Lets not panic, because I don’t think the intention is to prematurely move operations out of Singapore.”
- Mr Peter Negline, an aviation analyst, who thinks it makes good business sense to have contingency planning ready in the event of a repeat Sars outbreak

I’d say EK has a very bright future in the Europe/Mid East – Oz market, in light of the imminent delivery of their ultra long range aircraft.

Pontius... do you always make a point when you talk.. what I wrote was called providing information.... wow a neat concept?

Fish... "those who have and those who have not" . I am speaking from experience I live in the middle east... and sorry to say that seeing 2 mirage 2000 doesn't gauge the level of military activity going on in the region. Come work in Bahrain ATC where I am and you'll see almost half the traffic right now is US and UK military.

Maxalt... so true when you wrote.. "people leaving one set of problems for another set".

As for listening to expat wives opinions, who wouldn't like it? Most don't have to work and they spend their days at the beach club with the 14 other wives who do nothing all day.

Take is from me, I have worked in Europe and now here in Bahrain.. the grass is NOT greener and don't leave if you think it is.. it's never the case. Be honest with yourself, why do you want to move to the middle east? For me, it's financial freedom so I can go back to Canada, pay for a house cash and not have debts.

John Barnes I agree with what you say regarding your visit to Manchester which is echoed in every city in UK and can only get worse. Not however that it is any better in Antwerp( Belgium!!) not of course that you actually come from there!?

I seem to recall not long ago you telling everyone about your 6.5 months Bonus from Singapore Airlines!! Remember those Halcyon days????

It just all goes to show how quickly in Aviation the situation can turn from 'Very GOOD to very BAD'

Yes Lots of wives like it as ATC says sitting around the pool all day gossiping whilst their maids do all the work.

I would not want my children to be educated in the Middle East to age 18 with all the Locals leering not only at my daughter but also my son!!!

EuroATC - for someone who has never worked in Dubai, just like Maxalt, you are just so knowlegable about what goes on here, one of your comments was, "why does everyone come here, No1 money...everyone here is a prostitute - what a silly and narrow minded statement, haven't you read the comment from your new found friend Maxalt, and I quote, why would anyone come to the Emirates, the pay is cr@p, so boom goes that theory. In that very negative little mind of yours, you probably would not be able to comprehend that there are other things in life.

Woman are 6th class citizens - what a load of nonsence, I live in a country where 18% of the population is local and the rest is made up of ex-pats, in the time I have been, I have been treated with nothing but respect.

As for ALL our children being ex-pat brats, from a man that doesn't have any, I can see why not, you probably use your personality as birth control. We had a football clinic come across from thre U.K. and they were totally astounded at how polite and well mannered the kids were here, a far cry from the kids they train back home, one of them said.

You go on about how dangerous living in the Middle East is - thank goodness, Dubai is in the Gulf and not M.E.

Oh dear, now you have made me late for my tea at the beach club with the 14 other 6th class citizen wives, I had better ask my husbands permission to go. For a person who does not have kids, you will never understand the importance of being there in the afternoon when the kids get home from school for the wives that choose to. If a wife wants to work, there is nothing stoping her from doing so, or even owning her own business, this I can say with knowledge, as I do.

You know what EuroAtC? Life can be so enjoyable and so much fun, look at all the things you have, instead of what you don't have, a good job with a great salary, that's a good start.

Wiley, I spent a lot more than a weekend there. In fact the interview wasn't even held in Dubai...I made it my business to go have a good look for myself afterward, in my own time and at my own expense.
So there goes your theory.

Those of you from the UK who keep referring to the interracial problems there...yes, its a big problem for you. We don't have it in Dublin.

Permaneance of employment. You say its not available any more?
If you have a job at FR I think you've got a job for life if you want it. Probably true of Easy as well. And they are both expanding. And there are quick upgrades on offer.

Dumpvalve, what EuroATC says is true. I've worked in other expat jobs and seen the carry on of the 'ladies who lunch'. Wouldn't want my wife ending up like that. Bored off her tits and kids spoiled rotten. The other (non pilot) ex pats looked with pity on the 'low' standard of living we had. Used to get right up the noses of many of the pilot wives that they just couldn't keep up with the Joneses.

Fish,

You dissapoint me. For a guy that holds a position in EK that is supposed to represent some sort of integrity, you sure are a bit loose with the facts. Like most of your kind though, you put in the bits that suit your argument, but leave out significant associated points that shoot it to bits.

You make the comment that "we are now allowed to own our own houses" .

Sounds great doesn't it.

You neglected to point out that you can't own the land that they sit on. You may think you do, but the UAE property law unfortunately has no provision for expat ownership of land yet. Nor is it likely to while Sheikh Z is alive. Who holds the land title? When will you get a copy of it with your name on it?

You have completely misrepresented the home ownership situation here. I have found that this type of misrepresentation, by people pretending to present facts, is a common failing of those who are insecure in their decision to come here and must justify their position to all and sundry (themselves included).

You then go on to comment
"And I thought that this was going to develop into an entertaining and enlightening topic, discussed by mature adults. What a fool am I?

Could not have summed it up better myself.

As long as people write useless comments, like the one you made about home ownership, this forum will remain nothing more than an amusing, industry oriented, fiction forum.

If you, or some of the other factually challenged people out there are prepared to take the time to write something, then why not take a bit more time to make it factual. That way you will actually be helping our colleagues who are trying to make an informed decision, rather that feeding them half truths and lies.


Cop U Later

The Rev :ok:

John Barnes ,

I take great exception to your racist remark about certain districts in manchester.

To allude to the "moss" as an islamic state is absurd. Everyone here knows it is a province of somalia and was formerly known as little jamaica.

Why just the other day i commented to a policeman whislt he was giving me a ticket in moss side, that i wasnt speeding just i a hurry to get some of the class a sustances on special offer at drugs r us.

Imagine my surprise to find a computer terminal with internet access in my new cell.

dicksy

hope those direct entry commands are still ther after winston has finsished with my arse

...so girls, moving swiftly along to the original post,
 

Latest rumour off the mill is that the 6 A340-300's have just become 8!

8 Aeroplanes X 7 Crews/Plane(conservative guestimate)= 56 Capt's / 56 FO's.

All to be operational by April 2004!! Direct Entry's are pretty much a certainty, but those who are employed will be of an age that their contract & retirement coincide.

This sort of brings me back to the question on page 1 of this thread. If YOU fitted the profile and were applying for the position what would YOU expect to be paid?
:confused: ;)

Warlock 2000 US$12000 per month +min 8 Block Days off. Business Class ticket to EK destination monthly. Hotel accommodation not flat.

As contract only for about 2 years for me I can take it or leave it.If they want cheap people they know where they can go.

I actually doubt if they will find A340 Captains in the numbers wanted with the right experience. Some ex Cathay and SIA. Any of the 49ers ex A340??

Oh Dump Valve, you just blew away our chances of getting that direct routing through Bahrain, meaning burning more fuel therefore less profitshare next year.

hey dumpvalve (the name suits you)

First, I live in Bahrain and spend alot of time in Dubai since I have many friends there..not too different than here. Dubai is in the gulf which is also known as the middle east (in case you skipped the geography calls). You seem to want to attack me? I am just stating facts based on my experience living here.

I never said women are 6th class citizens my buddy Maxalt is the one who said that and to correct your stats, it's more like 25-30% local population in the UAE npot 18%.

I do not have children because my wife and I choose not too. We both work and have different priorities at this stage of our lives. And I never said the money was crap, we make more than 2.5 times what your husband makes so the income is actually quite good for us selfish people with no kids :) As for expat brats.. you're lucky your kids are sooo well behaved. Too bad they have to hang around with a bunch of other expat kids that are not.

I never once in my posts complained about what I don't have. Not sure where you get off giving me a piece of your "motherly" advice like that? I know what I have, my wife and I are both healthy with 1/2 million US in the bank. Is that a good start ?

This is an information forum and I was merely painting a more realistic picture for people considering it.

If you wish to attack me further please send me a personal message as to not bore everyone on this forum with your childlike attacks. Sorry to keep you from your beach time, always remember to put sunscreen on your head :)

hi kumul... no prob for the direct.. anytime :) I do the best job I can for everyone... not some expats wife that will change that.

Hey EuroATC..

l recommend bonds... Indian bonds for that amount of loot

Great return and the the broker assures me very little risk;)

halas

So am I krusty or sideshow? lol

Wow I think we struck a nerve.... you are right, I do not have an A340 rating nor will I ever :)

I don't think I need an A340 rating to comment on living conditions in the middle east.. Are you upset that someone else is voicing their opinions? Not sure where you are from but where I come from a democratic country where everyone is free to say what they want. You are telling me I am not qualified to comment on this topic? So what makes you qualified and not me... LOL I actually have a job in the aviation industry.. do you?

I have no axe to grind.. I am just offering a different view of the middle east. Why do you have a such a problem with this? Sounds to me like you don't like hearing negative stuff about Dubai, if you love it so much why do you care what others think?

Fish

Sorry about the attack, but I find it terribly annoying when facts are distorted by anyone, let alone an EK employee, when they are trying to comment on genuine inquiries by prospective employees.

Having re-read my post, i admit I may have been a little harsh, however it is not personal, I just try and make a habit of pointing out some of the inaccuracies and half truths that are posted on forums pertaining to EK.

Again, my intent is not to offend but to try and help provide a factual and balanced view for those looking for information.

If you are going to make sweeping comments on topics like home ownership, it is important that people understand that at present, the concept of home ownership in the UAE is very different from that in most of the countries our pilots will come from.

Cop U Later

The Rev

millerscourt...
 

Thanks for keeping with the program and not continuing with the "Emirates pissing contest", geez how many hints do some people need? Think I'll start a new thread in Jet Blast...

As for "US$12000 per month +min 8 Block Days off. Business Class ticket to EK destination monthly. Hotel accommodation not flat" all I can say is... good try, but DREAM ON :ok:

Rumor has it that DE's be shortly posted on the net. Although it is probably better to promote from within, the company needs extra lift rapidly and experienced commanders NOW as they can fill all these planes they say, it could also be that these 340s won't remain in the fleet, hence the DE contracts and not investing more into full training. Keep in mind that it is a good thing that the company is doing well.

As for the pay, the suggested 12k a month plus per-diem, transport, accomodation,etc. is pretty fair, Remember that these are wide-body heavy metals, and contract folks always make more than permanent staff since they don't have a vested long term interest in the company-plus that can only improve the pay for all of us worldwide.
Good luck to those in a bargaining position!

Does that mean that you will be terminating your application, millerscourt?

I don't agree with direct entry captain's, but accept that one has to look at the situation realistically, if EK has no-one elligable for an upgrade in the FO ranks then this is the only solution. However, if a direct entry captain starts on U$12000.00 plus, plus, plus... it begs the question, is that because the heavy metal he's gonna be driving from the left seat is in some way different to the heavy metal I drive from the left seat?

Because if it's not, then I presume he'll be doing nearly twice the amount of flying I'm doing.

Warlock2000, have you ever worked a contract job, or have you always been in 'semi permanent' employment?

Eight years ago I was on a contract in your neck of the woods making $8500 US per month tax free, HOTAC inc., Transport inc., Business Class BA to and from the point of employment.
Oh...by the way...it wasn't an A340.
It wasn't even a heavy.
In fact...hell...it wasn't even a jet!
I think cost of living etc have increased somewhat in the last eight years. 12K for an A340 skipper sounds like a bargain by comparison, doesn't it. Maybe you're selling us all short mate.

Peligroso, your permanent job is worth the pay cut, innit? I mean, you get to be (gasp) an EK driver!!!
If you don't like the terms you could always leave and go freelance.
Or form a union and demand a pay rise.

While your management can read this thread and see how you EK boys are so happy, and how you continue to encourage throngs of wannabes to jump on the bandwagon, why on gods earth would they ever improve your terms voluntarily??? Absolutely no need!

Warlock 2000 The sum I mentioned is the MINIMUM!!! If EK want to entice say 57/58 year old A340 Captains away from say Virgin.Air Canada,Cathay and others then that is not really a huge sum and unless they are prepared to take A330 Captains from UK Charter Companies who might like a change of air for their last few years in aviation then I doubt if they will get many takers!!

Pontious Lets wait and see shall we??#

Warlock 2000 I forgot to mention I would also require 2 days for travelling in addition to the 8 Block days.!!

This salary in line with China Airlines and Korean and Japanese Cargo Outfits.

El Peligroso If you live in the Third World then expect a Third World Salary!!

Suspect that if A340 DE Commanders are required, EK may indeed have to pay the going rate....which just might be a little lower than anticipated by some, provided they are obtained from UL...or perhaps ex-SQ.
Always amused by a few European guys who expect to travel to the desert and inform the companies based there how to run the show. In many cases, they set a consistantly abysmal standard, which they generally fail to achieve.

Max
You hit the nail on the head.

While your management can read this thread and see how you EK boys are so happy, and how you continue to encourage throngs of wannabes to jump on the bandwagon, why on gods earth would they ever improve your terms voluntarily??? Absolutely no need!

I am constantly amazed by the continual ranting of a few here who claim that getting a job with EK is akin to winning the lottery, and moving to Dubai is like a trip to paradise.

Both statements are far from the truth.

You will also find that most of the drivers here have come from jobs that were less attractive than EK. That is a far cry from saying that EK is great. It is just better than their alternative.

Make no mistake, I am one of those people. The difference is that I am fully aware that we are underpaid on two counts. Firstly we are flying the biggest and newest twins in the world, on long haul routes, for well below the going rate for an "established" airline, and secondly we are living in the Middle East.

People should be clear that whilst Dubai is by far the safest and most cosmopolitan city in the Gulf region, it is still only a stones throw from all the breeding grounds of recent troubles. That should be reflected to some degree in ones pay packet. I don't believe that it is.

So in a nutshell, the guys that are here are happy because it is (generally) the best offer they could get, but I strongly suspect that in order to entice an experienced 340 guys away from a good job, they will need to pay well above our first year captains salary. If they don't, I would say that they are unlikely to get any candidates that would represent a better choice than upgrading our F/O's


Cop U Later

The Rev

It's Official!
 

From Vice President Flight Ops...

DIRECT ENTRY COMMANDS

"Given the planned expansion of the Emirates fleet a considerable amount of resource planning has been conducted. This work has demonstrated that without reducing the minimum criteria for command, the company will have a shortfall of command.

The company has discussed altering the minimum requirements, but to preserve quality & operational standards, this will not be done. Therefore in order to satisfy the company’s immediate & future growth plans the decision has been made that Emirates will provide an entry point for Direct Entry Captains. Consequentially, we will shortly commence advertising for Direct Entry Captains to join EK.

Emirates is committed to balancing Direct Entry Captains requirements against First Officers who meet command criteria so that the latter group are not unduly disadvantaged.

The minimum requirements for Direct Entry Captains will be:

- 10,000 total time on joining EK.
- 3,000 command, on type or wide-body, immediately prior to joining EK.
- 4,000 Hard Jet hours.
- Preference to type rated & instructors.
- Age under 56, at commencement date.

We recognise that there will be a number of existing First Officers within Emirates who meet the above criteria.

Therefore if you had 10,000 hours and 3,000 command (wide body or type), when you joined Emirates then we will consider your suitability for and immediate command.

If you believe that you meet the Direct Entry Criteria and would like to be considered then please contact your Fleet Manager as soon as possible."

millerscourt,

"I forgot to mention I would also require 2 days for travelling in addition to the 8 Block days.!! This salary in line with China Airlines and Korean and Japanese Cargo Outfits."

So why are you hinting desperatly for an EK job and not working there?
:confused:

maxalt,

"Eight years ago I was on a contract in your neck of the woods making $8500 US per month tax free, HOTAC inc., Transport inc., Business Class BA to and from the point of employment.
Oh...by the way...it wasn't an A340.
It wasn't even a heavy.
In fact...hell...it wasn't even a jet!"

WOW! if I was a girl I'd definately go out with you! :zzz:

Was only three years ago we went through pretty much the same sort of thing. Anyone remember the email to the mates about "the jobs as promised"??? Wonder if the pilots meetings will be as well attended as the one back then.
You would think with the amount of concrete holding Dubai together we could use some to keep the goal posts in the same place.
Don

Warlock 2000 I am in the Far East and feel like a change of scene back to the Middle East ( or the Gulf as dumpvalve prefers!!)

Travelling from Far East too long would prefer shorter times!!

Sounds as if EK will also take B777 Direct Captains as well from above message.

Donpizmeov Yes that South African was right after all,just a little bit out on his timing!!

PS Is 20000 hours enough for EK or is that too many??

If EK were to get their act together I could be out on the line within 2 weeks of joining.

Millerscourt,

Well done mate, 20,000 hours!!

Out of interest, does having 20,000 hours mean that you are twice as good a pilot as a pilot with 10,000 hours.

Holy !!!! you must be 20 times as good a pilot as one with 1,000 hours. Quick if you get your application in pronto they'll be banging your door down coz they won't need 56 captains they'll be able to get away with 36. Now thats progress.

In fact call the RAF and they'll name you Red 1-9, those mates with 2000 hours would be huuugely impressed by your display of flying skill. Is there a formation button on the EICAS, if not have a chat with old man boeing to sort that out. Come to think of it there isn't one on the 340 either!:ok:

Don't you love aviation, so driven by seniority that people actually start to believe their own press and think that they get better with age. Like prostitution its one of the few professions that you can get into without displaying any natural aptitude or ability, in fact if you have enough money you can even buy your way in.

Sorry mate, I must apologise I didn't realise that your 20,000 hours was gained in the Womens Royal Auxillary Balloon Corps?

Ghost:zzz:

P.S. If you get in quick, I won't be fingered for the 340. While you get your bunk time, I'll be on the beach.

millerscourt,
 

Not even an advert yet and you talk like you've got the job already.:oh:
Good luck for the interview, you'll probably need it more than most!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To those FO's currently at EK affected by the newest changes, I believe the powers that be have explored all posible avenues and unfortunately there seems to be no other solution to meet the current expansion plans. My heart truely goes out to you. Stay the professionals that you are - your turn WILL come!
:ok:

Ghostflyer Don't be a prat. If you cannot recognise a send up when you see one then you are more stupid than even your post suggests. :ok:

Perhaps yours was too except for it's tone.

millerscourt, maybe the veneer of self confidence at EK is starting to crack? All I know is that if I'd given up a jet command at a good company to go to EK and sit in the RHS with a promise...I'd be getting worried, and rather pissed off about now.

Fortunately I'd be one of the lucky ones who could 'contact my fleet Captain about a command' right away. Phew.:p

Millerscourt,

Touche!!

I thought it was quite a jovial tone really unlikely some of the stuff that you have posted. If you don't like some of your own medicine then don't rise to the bait!! Here's to a truce.

Best regards,

The Pratt:{

Warlock,

I disagree with your statement:

They have a set of cast iron number rules that they use. Just about every other airline has hours for guidance and then manages the situation. As I was trying to point out to Millerscourt not all flying hours are necessarily equal.

The guy that has been flying in his MD80 on short sectors in punk weather in Northern Scandinavia and the guy in the military jet surrounded by loads of other aircraft has probably made more decisions over the last year than I have had hot dinners. (Actually, maybe not, I do seem to eat too much at the moment)

Long Haul flying in itself has changed. Although we have fun with the old farts , their 1000 hours of experience in the 70s involved far more decision making and aircraft handling than is gained in a modern automated cockpit. Things used to go wrong a lot more often.

The only true way to assess pilots for command is to look at their flying ability, professionalism, personal qualities and what they have actually done.

In all our companies we know of F/Os that could hop into the left seat at 3000 hours and Captains that should be returned to the right with 10,000.

Also:That does not sound to me as if they mean they will upgrade all available and then employ DECs. DECs will be employed ahead of eligible F/Os.

Ghost:suspect:

Out of sight, out of mind.
Another good thread goes walkabout in the boonies.

Seee y'all.

Warlock2000 Re: Your post of 18 Sept

¡°From Vice President Flight Ops (EK)...

DIRECT ENTRY COMMANDS

"Given the planned expansion of the Emirates fleet a considerable amount of resource planning has been conducted. This work has demonstrated that without reducing the minimum criteria for command, the company will have a shortfall of command.

The company has discussed altering the minimum requirements, but to preserve quality & operational standards, this will not be done. Therefore in order to satisfy the company¡¯s immediate & future growth plans the decision has been made that Emirates will provide an entry point for Direct Entry Captains. Consequentially, we will shortly commence advertising for Direct Entry Captains to join EK.¡±

This rather sounds like the future in EK, as I would guess that the above action in relation to ¡°immediate & future growth plans¡± will go a significant way towards turning off the long term flow of well qualified FO¡¯s and young Captains jumping ship elsewhere in the world, to join the nirvana in the desert. I¡¯d guess that the following would be the usual management flannel to smooth things over and disguise the intention and accelerating growth driven requirement to continue taking DE Captains, now they¡¯ve crossed the Rubicon of DE entry-

¡±Emirates is committed to balancing Direct Entry Captains requirements against First Officers who meet command criteria so that the latter group are not unduly disadvantaged.¡±

Anyway, we shall see

This draging on now...
 

I don't think that anyone working here is under the fantasy that EK is "Nirvana in the Desert". In fact, there are a number of areas where improvements could be made and all who work here know that. Any mature adult realises that this would obviously hold true for any airline / company in the world today.

Some, however, might be under the misguided illusion that this the first time that EK will take on direct entry captains and that once this "Rubicon" has been crossed (not sure if you mean an act of war or irrevocable commitment here) an endless stream of DE Capt's will abound. Well, it's not the fist time that DE's will be employed and considering that EK went back to the seniority based promotion system in the past gives me hope that they will do it again in the future. I'm not for DE Captains, and probably will never be, but I do realise that right now there doesn't seem to be another solution.

Over and out!

According to ATWonline, the eight A340-300 aircraft that EK is to receive will be on nine year operating leases....perhaps these 'short term' DE Commanders will be rather longer term than many realized.

Wonder how many co-pilots will be crying in their beers now?:{ :{ :{ :{

There could be all kinds of clauses in a nine year deal.

The right to on-lease could be one.

Convert to freighter may be another.

Palm them off to Sri Lankan another possibility (Since they already have them).

Turn them into dive sites off "The Palm".

Who knows, but l don't see them being a part of the Emirates vision in the next few years.

halas