Emirates Direct Entry Commands (merged)
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Emirates Direct Entry Commands
Understand that Emirates will shortly be recruiting DE captains to crew six ex-SQ A340-300's the airline is supposedly acquiring in the very near future.
I had heard that Dec 2003 was a likely advertising month. Anyone got further information?
I had heard that Dec 2003 was a likely advertising month. Anyone got further information?
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Here we go again......!
Rumours are rife of 6 "unplanned" A340's. To date nothing has been signed as the said aircraft have a few peculiarities which would mean a substantial investment to get them in line with the rest of the EK Airbus fleet.
If DE Capt's come, (and I'd rather work overtime every month than see that) previous experience will certainly be a major criteria, I wonder where they'll fit in to the grand scheme of things and on what salary scale they will join? 1st year Capt?
Time will tell.....
If DE Capt's come, (and I'd rather work overtime every month than see that) previous experience will certainly be a major criteria, I wonder where they'll fit in to the grand scheme of things and on what salary scale they will join? 1st year Capt?
Time will tell.....
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Warlock 2000 Your offer to do extra overtime is unlikely to be considered as a cure.
I guess they might get a few ex A340 Captains like myself to join who know Emirates routes. I would be interested in a short term contract if the price was right just whilst these aircraft if they do arrive are in Emirates fleet awaiting delivery of B777.
Huffing and Puffing from F/O's will not bother EK as they can be easily replaced.That is the joy from an Employers point of view where there are no employments rights for employees other than 3 months notice. No Unions etc etc = you have to watch your step or otherwise you are out on your ear. Just look at the Cathay 49 who are still probably mostly unemployed still.
I sometimes wonder whether applicants from the 1st World are fully aware of this fact. If you are unemployed then you have to take your chances and hopes it pans out. Those Captains who give up good jobs to join as F/O's are taking a big risk.
I guess they might get a few ex A340 Captains like myself to join who know Emirates routes. I would be interested in a short term contract if the price was right just whilst these aircraft if they do arrive are in Emirates fleet awaiting delivery of B777.
Huffing and Puffing from F/O's will not bother EK as they can be easily replaced.That is the joy from an Employers point of view where there are no employments rights for employees other than 3 months notice. No Unions etc etc = you have to watch your step or otherwise you are out on your ear. Just look at the Cathay 49 who are still probably mostly unemployed still.
I sometimes wonder whether applicants from the 1st World are fully aware of this fact. If you are unemployed then you have to take your chances and hopes it pans out. Those Captains who give up good jobs to join as F/O's are taking a big risk.
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Funny how things connect isn’t it? I recently met the Boeing man in charge of Aircraft Trading Contacts at a p*ss-up here in Singapore. Amongst other things, he mentioned that the six A340-300’s in question were currently under management (for maintenance) with Lufthansa and that (subject to contract) Boeing would shortly be moving them to Emirates and that further, amongst other things, he thought they represented a good opening for the pilots recently “let go” by SIA.
Perhaps the imperative of these aircraft arriving at Emirates plus that of an overstretched training department and a huge back-log of already ordered aircraft, is leading to the obvious conclusion?
Please don’t worry FO’s. With the equipment you have arriving, even the most ardent hot-air balloonist would be assured of a command in the fullness of time!
Perhaps the imperative of these aircraft arriving at Emirates plus that of an overstretched training department and a huge back-log of already ordered aircraft, is leading to the obvious conclusion?
Please don’t worry FO’s. With the equipment you have arriving, even the most ardent hot-air balloonist would be assured of a command in the fullness of time!
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'Twas bound to happen at some stage, opinions from a few misguided co-pilots notwithstanding.
One wonders about the suitability of these same huffing/puffing guys to really handle a command in the first place...considering some of their contentious comments in the past.
When you get down to the nitty gritty, if EK needs rapid command experience, the best way to get same is to hire directly for the position.
Other airlines that have done so include...
Singapore
Asiana
Korean
Garuda
SaudiaArabian
SriLankan....
Well, the list goes on and on, and the fact that DE guys appeared on the scene in no way impeeded the advancement of properly qualified First Officers to the left seat.
Except a few perhaps, who huffed and puffed their way....right out the door.
One wonders about the suitability of these same huffing/puffing guys to really handle a command in the first place...considering some of their contentious comments in the past.
When you get down to the nitty gritty, if EK needs rapid command experience, the best way to get same is to hire directly for the position.
Other airlines that have done so include...
Singapore
Asiana
Korean
Garuda
SaudiaArabian
SriLankan....
Well, the list goes on and on, and the fact that DE guys appeared on the scene in no way impeeded the advancement of properly qualified First Officers to the left seat.
Except a few perhaps, who huffed and puffed their way....right out the door.
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Millerscourt, thanks for the profound advice, but it would seem that your opinion may have something to do with your desire for a job.
If it's true and you did get a job, you're going to have to fly with those FOs by the way.
If it's true and you did get a job, you're going to have to fly with those FOs by the way.
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The rumour mill does seem to be leaning towards DE Captains being the only way of crewing the 300's, if indeed they come. Pilots however are not the only problem. How do we crew the back when we are operating 500 cabin crew short at the moment. What effect on CCQ'ing would adding a 4th variant have (330-200, 340-300, 340-500 and 340-600). Also as Warlock said, they would need quite a bit of work to get into EK spec. They need F/O's as well. Were are we going to park them, when Dubai is struggling for gates as it is. etc etc.
There is a lot more to it than than just the question of who will sit in the left hand seat. Just to stick my bit in though, I think Direct Entry Captains would potentially be a problem. We have been hiring guys as F/O's for a while now who would easily qualify for a Direct Entry position. What do we do with them?
Touchy subject.
There is a lot more to it than than just the question of who will sit in the left hand seat. Just to stick my bit in though, I think Direct Entry Captains would potentially be a problem. We have been hiring guys as F/O's for a while now who would easily qualify for a Direct Entry position. What do we do with them?
Touchy subject.
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Albert of Arabia,
Good points, quite right. Must admit forgot about the kitchen staff (
) shortage. Sorry boys and girls.
Amazing, dangle a carrot about ANY Emirates subject and everyone's friend Mr. 411A will certainly have something to say. Mention direct entry captains and he'll always have a lot to say!
"Young captains, not up to the job, not qualified, huffing/puffing guys, ...." SNORE! Change the record chap.
411A, for everyone's at Emirates', ahh, what the hell, make it worldwide benefit, what in your opinion is a "properly qualified First Officer " anyway?
This should be interesting from someone who once claimed to have a command at 29! Refreash my memory B737 or B707?
millerscourt,
Not too sure about that, ran the numbers and (simplisticly) if the boys are prepared to spread the joy, financialy it would be cheaper for the airline to pay existing captains overtime than to employ direct entry captains.
No disrespect intended, just trying to look after our own.
Good points, quite right. Must admit forgot about the kitchen staff (
) shortage. Sorry boys and girls. Amazing, dangle a carrot about ANY Emirates subject and everyone's friend Mr. 411A will certainly have something to say. Mention direct entry captains and he'll always have a lot to say!"Young captains, not up to the job, not qualified, huffing/puffing guys, ...." SNORE! Change the record chap.
411A, for everyone's at Emirates', ahh, what the hell, make it worldwide benefit, what in your opinion is a "properly qualified First Officer " anyway?
This should be interesting from someone who once claimed to have a command at 29! Refreash my memory B737 or B707?
millerscourt,
Warlock 2000 Your offer to do extra overtime is unlikely to be considered as a cure
No disrespect intended, just trying to look after our own.
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Warlock2000,
Properly qualified means....having passed a command assessment, found suitable...including past performance as a First Officer.
However, this ties up training Captains for a longer period (training First Officer upgrades) so might not fit into the picture.
Oh yes, it was 29, and the aircraft was indeed the Boeing 707.
A rather long time ago, but with a very small company so the upgrades were fast indeed.
You are correct about one thing tho...for a company to pay overtime is far more productive than additional new hire payroll burden.
Any financial guy who knows anything about airline ops will tell you so.
And certainly not restricted to the airline industry either.
Properly qualified means....having passed a command assessment, found suitable...including past performance as a First Officer.
However, this ties up training Captains for a longer period (training First Officer upgrades) so might not fit into the picture.
Oh yes, it was 29, and the aircraft was indeed the Boeing 707.
A rather long time ago, but with a very small company so the upgrades were fast indeed.
You are correct about one thing tho...for a company to pay overtime is far more productive than additional new hire payroll burden.
Any financial guy who knows anything about airline ops will tell you so.
And certainly not restricted to the airline industry either.
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See you were ill informed, so you're forgiven.
Properly qualified means....having passed a command assessment, found suitable...including past performance as a First Officer.
Hope this puts your mind at ease as to the quality of EK Captains.
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Little Knowledge is a dangerous thing....
There have been some comments here which have been well thought out and reasoned, and then, of course, there's 411A.
Trainers at EK are pretty much just that...Trainers. whether it be sim or line, that's pretty much all they do. (Of course they do some line work also). The list of suitable F/O's for an upgrade to the Left Seat is long, but the company requires at least 18 months for an accelerated command, and three years otherwise.
Most of those joining the company now have a
load of experience and have joined Emirated from a failing, or failed, company. One of the few options open to them is to join a 'bucking-the-trend' expanding company. So please don't think that all right seaters are hopeless; just remember YOU used to one once 'captain'........
As for DE captains, the latest, hot-off-the-press RUMOUR is that they will be employed on a short, fixed term contract until the mess here is sorted out and the required number of crews has been reached. At the end of the contract, they will be offered a full time position within the company, BUT as an F/O qualified for an accelerated command.
This begs the question: what will their seniority be within the compnay, and what will be their contract? That I have not heard any news about....so watch the RUMOUR space.
Finally, when it comes to operating within a company, who do you trust to know more of the company SOPs?...a newly arrived experienced DE captain, or anyone who has been there for a few months or more?.................just a question.
PS anone else got 411A in their Ignore List?
Trainers at EK are pretty much just that...Trainers. whether it be sim or line, that's pretty much all they do. (Of course they do some line work also). The list of suitable F/O's for an upgrade to the Left Seat is long, but the company requires at least 18 months for an accelerated command, and three years otherwise.
Most of those joining the company now have a
load of experience and have joined Emirated from a failing, or failed, company. One of the few options open to them is to join a 'bucking-the-trend' expanding company. So please don't think that all right seaters are hopeless; just remember YOU used to one once 'captain'........As for DE captains, the latest, hot-off-the-press RUMOUR is that they will be employed on a short, fixed term contract until the mess here is sorted out and the required number of crews has been reached. At the end of the contract, they will be offered a full time position within the company, BUT as an F/O qualified for an accelerated command.
This begs the question: what will their seniority be within the compnay, and what will be their contract? That I have not heard any news about....so watch the RUMOUR space.
Finally, when it comes to operating within a company, who do you trust to know more of the company SOPs?...a newly arrived experienced DE captain, or anyone who has been there for a few months or more?.................just a question.
PS anone else got 411A in their Ignore List?
Dear old 411A must have been a slow learner. I was in the left seat of a four-engined transport aircraft a good three years before he was and became a trainer before my next birthday.
short flights long nights
Just a small point Fish, be it Emirates or many many other Airlines, pilots have gone thru a huge selection process and a huge training process to go from the right to left seat. Example (and I stess this is only an example), if a Captain from BA or QF came to Emirates, is he OK to fly your planes? He does it every day with his airline, so why not with yours???? No decent airline I know makes it an easy "jump" three feet left (as you put it), so if some one has done it before, why cant they do it direct with Emirates?
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Have just seem my first ...
411A ...This person is on your ignore list.
I wondered if I would be tempted to look at 411A's posts now he is on my ignore list. Didn't and I feel good having, I am sure, missed absolutely nothing.
Would recomend it to anyone who would like to "lay one on him"
411A ...This person is on your ignore list.
I wondered if I would be tempted to look at 411A's posts now he is on my ignore list. Didn't and I feel good having, I am sure, missed absolutely nothing.
Would recomend it to anyone who would like to "lay one on him"
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Hmmm, two pages of huffing/puffing from a few EK guys, and they still are without a clue.
Sadly (for them), if the company decides on direct entry Commanders, they just might be around a lot longer than many realise.
'Tis happened before with other companies.
Management will decide. Pilots at EK now will not likely have anything to say about it...in fact, if they act like prats, might harden managements resolve.
Sadly (for them), if the company decides on direct entry Commanders, they just might be around a lot longer than many realise.
'Tis happened before with other companies.
Management will decide. Pilots at EK now will not likely have anything to say about it...in fact, if they act like prats, might harden managements resolve.
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Re: the six A340-300’s in question. Boeing is offering extremely sweet deals to get shot of the ex-SQ machines they have recently been landed with, in part-ex for B777’s supplied to SQ as part of “the deal of the century”. So even though they may not currently match the EK A330 spec, there are powerful incentives for even more Boeing money to be spent and the aircraft being brought up to the required mod state for EK acceptance. The alternative being that they remain grounded and "eating up money" in vast quantities on a daily basis.
Behind the scenes, the Seattle manufacturer is desperate to unload and seething that they continue making SQ bound B777’s “for the fun of it”.
Therefore, whilst nothing in life is certain, the smart money is on the machines appearing on the Dubai flight line in fairly short order, rapidly followed by extra crews to fly them.
Behind the scenes, the Seattle manufacturer is desperate to unload and seething that they continue making SQ bound B777’s “for the fun of it”.
Therefore, whilst nothing in life is certain, the smart money is on the machines appearing on the Dubai flight line in fairly short order, rapidly followed by extra crews to fly them.
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Relax, Don't do it...
Howdy folks:
From one of those at Ek to the rest at EK, take it easy.
Before we hire any direct-entry captains, the company will make it's way down the entire seniority list and pluck anyone qualified for the command positions which are required.
Any subsequent shortfall would indeed be made up by direct entry captains but they would only be for the 340, an airplane which is unlikely to be in our fleet past mid-2005. An airline equipped with 777-300ER's has no use for a slow, low useful load airplane with high-operating costs. Ask anyone in our accounting deparment.
ERGO - this too shall pass and will not delay your command in the slightest.
As an aside 411A is absolutely correct again: the company will do PRECISELY what it wants and union power is dead, dead, dead.
Any questions?
From one of those at Ek to the rest at EK, take it easy.
Before we hire any direct-entry captains, the company will make it's way down the entire seniority list and pluck anyone qualified for the command positions which are required.
Any subsequent shortfall would indeed be made up by direct entry captains but they would only be for the 340, an airplane which is unlikely to be in our fleet past mid-2005. An airline equipped with 777-300ER's has no use for a slow, low useful load airplane with high-operating costs. Ask anyone in our accounting deparment.
ERGO - this too shall pass and will not delay your command in the slightest.
As an aside 411A is absolutely correct again: the company will do PRECISELY what it wants and union power is dead, dead, dead.
Any questions?