As an Emirates F/O a quick couple of points.

I am one of many ex captains now working for Emirates, waiting for my turn for command. I agree with the company to hire DE Capts for the forseeable future to benefit all the employees in the company (profit share and all that)

However, yes I agree that a lot of us are ex widebody Captains and could possibly already qualify for these positions looking at our previous experience. However, get the jets in, get them crewed and get the company flying the routes. With the vast number of aircraft inbound in the near future there will be commands for all F/O's waiting at present. To sign the new DE Capts on a short term 3 to 5 year lease would be my vote, until such a time that we get all of us F/O's converted back to the left seat. Of course it will take a little time as the company needs to re-fill the right seat, we all agreed to the terms before we joined, accept it.

Regarding the reason to have joined Emirates, from say a UK salary point of view even here as an F/O things aren't at all bad.

In Dirhams per annum
Salary in 1st year 17250 x 12 = 207000
Housing paid for = 100000
Utilities paid for = 15000
3 children private education = 71000
Provident fund contribution = 25000
Private health = a benefit I wont put a price on
Loss of license = a benefit again
Free transport to from work = 10000
Down route allowances = Good beer money ( not counted)
I could go on, death insurance, interest free loan, free and subsidised travel etc, etc get my point.

So added up = 428000Dhms / 5.9 = 72542 UK Pounds Tax free !!
Oh yes recently the company paid out 8 weeks profit share of 34500 + monthly salary of 17250 = 51750Dhms or 8772 UK pounds TAX FREE for a first year F/O ( in the profit share). Not only that it looks like next years profit share is going to be even better, lets hope.

It's not so bad and at times its great not having everyone bitching that they are going to go to the union rep and Blaahh Blaahh Blaahh.

411a, words just wont say it for me!

Cheers:cool:

GO DIRECT

You forgot to mention the Currency fluctuation protection, state pension (albeit minimalist) back up in case the contributory one goes tits-up, EPC card benefits etc.....etc....I have 26 years to go until retirement, this job will do me just fine! By the way, have you noticed that this topic hasn't even featured on the EK Pilot's Forum?

Maxalt, mi ald China

When did you get your rejection letter?

:ok:

GO DIRECT - I'm right with you on what you say !!!

Also remember folks, it's not just the money or the flying but the LIFESTYLE...For the few people who have accused me of wearing "rose tinted specs" in the past - well, my family and I are having a great time here STILL.
The commands will roll around pretty quickly whatever happens.

No one's mentioned the most likely source of most of these current A340 DECs. Could it be from a place whose name might sound like a combination of the noise of bleating lambs and precipitation?





...and could most of them go by the name of "Al"?

Speedbrake, please drop the patronising tone.

No one (or at least not I) is claiming to have a better or worse job than anyone else, or indeed be living in Utopia. I simply saw fit to add some balance to Dropp the Pilot's comments on life at Ryanair. That is all.

Now the balance has been addressed, let us continue with the more interesting topic at hand.

That would be a first on PPRuNe AJ !!

No....let me digress further.....:p

Pontius, I actually did give them a go once. Did the interviews, the sim, played with the construction set...etc. Got offerred the job. I then went home and thought about it and ultimately decided that they had nothing to offer that wouldn't come to me right here at home. And I didn't fancy having my sleep disturbed by wailing every morning and night either. I thanked them and politely declined.

Glad I did too because it turned out exactly as planned and I'm quite happy where I am now.

Go Direct, the money is no doubt very good, but it would have to be to make me drop back to the RHS. And it would also have to be in order to make me wanna live in the ME right now. I'd call it 'danger money'. The 'Provident Fund'? Don't rely on that for retirement mate. I hope you're salting away a lot of that 'untaxed' income. You'll be needing it later.

The free housing thing is an interesting topic. I like being able to choose where I live. In EK you get shown your cell and told like it or lump it. The singles are accomodated in anonymous tower block appartments. Thats not for me mate.
The marrieds were being driven demented by their competitive wives..." how come Jilly and Jonny got a bigger/nicer/newer house than we did" etc etc.
Nice way to start a new career.

Also the schools and medical benefits have come in for serious stick on this board in the past. Do the searches.

The old WX thing....Speedbrake, dontcha know us Paddys can't take the sun. Sensitive Irish skin y'know.
What are you anyway? A feckin lizard?
:p

maxalt....
maxgrossgeneralization.

Your claims are vague, general and broadly based on someones opinion, and l am guessing that they are probably not yours.

l am glad you enjoy Ryanair.

l enjoy the lifestyle here, even if my competative wife in our lump it or leave it cell loves it here too. Lucky, as otherwise l would have to take the housing allowance and find my own place to live.

You sound like you have friends here who are not too happy with their decision on coming here. (Sounds like my neighbour.)

Someone living in Ireland reckons Dubai is dangerous? Hmmmm:hmm:

halas

I wanted to join emirates but was knocked back because of my appearance and skill levels. so its not just the ugly useless ones that dont get in.

Aha!! So it's not just a gross generalisation then? You know someone else who isn't happy!

Sure, it's horses for courses. I bet the majority of EK'ers love it. But a little injection of balance is worthwhile, don'tcha think?

It ain't paradise.;)

You tell'm MAXALT......"Feckn Lizard" I love it!:ok:

Yes maxalt, there are people here who do not like it. l would never deny or hide that fact.

There were people in my last company who didn't like their lot either, just as there are people in Ryanair who think the grass is greener elsewhere, l'm sure.

As a matter of fact l have met several crew, tech and cabin from Ryanair, who are now living here.

l don't think they left because they were in a job that they liked.
So to not be a fool to themselves and a burden on others, they left.

It happens everywhere and for all sorts of reasons. It beats whinging which, let's face it, there is a lot of in this industry.

So if you are happy where you are, then stay.
If you're not, leave. Don't whinge about it.

This formula is not rocket science.

Balanced view:hmm:
Cost of living on EK captains wage in Ireland as opposed to Dubai....
Living where you choose. Shouldn't that be living where you can affored, as l would choose to live in the Sheikhs palace but l can only affored what l have.....

Keep it balanced if you can.

halas

Absolutely Silky - I've got a whole 12 sectors this month and still get into overtime credit :D :D :D

white knight,

you have a cool roster and a n easy life regardess of the economc climate ecause the emirates that back emirates will not loose face. So enjoy your existance by all means but dont delude yourslf as to the source of your lifesyle funding. your existance is dependant on arabic ego and oil money not reality.

no reality airline (financialy speaking)could have such an overhead for expat creature comforts.

enjoy. you are all not much more than the hired (help) acceptable faces for a culture driven by image.

emirates is this decades gulf air, and i'm sure qatar is the next to take up the mantle.

i have one word for you "indigensation" when they have had enuf of you.

and no sour grapes i think you ave a great lifstyle but it is manufactured not market driven.

dont forget the factor 20

Jack Point - just remember that wherever you work and whomever you fly for you are HIRED HELP!! Rather here for me than back in Europe...
Tell me also if EK's success is manufactured and not market driven why the aeroplanes are all full and looking at making yet another decent profit ?? :confused: :confused:

White Knight Don't be deluded into thinking that because the aircraft are full that EK are making a profit.

I know you think everything in EK is wonderful which is just as well because you have burnt your boat by joining EK as indeed have 95% of all pilots who join expat Airlines because there is no going back,taking into account seniority etc .Especially for those who were Captains in their former life and are now in the right hand seat. Once you have been sitting there for more than a year you would be unlikely to get a position as a Direct Captain anywhere else so lets hope your dreams come true.

I personally would be a little concerned about the huge expansion going on at Emirates and personally wonder how it will all end as that part of the world is not particularly stable.

You had better hope that Abu Dhabi where the real money is in that part of the world doesn't decide to take Emirates on because they cannot afford to subsidise forever.

I well remember when EK first started and those at Gulf Air dismissed it all as a joke at the time,something that they now regret.

Sorry, thought there was mention somehwere in this thread about Emirates direct entry captains, oh well maybe not, must be mistitled judging by the bitching going on.

Carry on with the penis measuring guys!!

Jack Point, talking loudly from a position of ignorance does not make you right..........Cathay Pacific housing and benefits ESPECIALLY for the remaining A scalers are far in excess of those enjoyed in the EK litter tray...................:=

Yes S.C.

And we can all see what a happy bunch of Larrys the CX pilots are can't we? The 'A' Scalers are having a hoot at the expense of everybody else. Meanwhile the band still played.....

:ok:

In relation to Go Directs post re benefits at EK, I think the following qualification is in order.

1st year FO pay is 16760 per month. (3990 euros) and 23920 (5695 euros) for Captains.

Housing and utilities paid for YES --
But you have no choice of villa type, or location. You may end up with something OK, or you may not.

Can you take an allowance in lieu of company provided accommodation YES--
But, its only 95000dhs per annum, for Captains, and less for FOs which is not enough to cover rent, and utilities, which can be very expensive when running air conditioning all summer. Most professionals in Dubai get 120000 plus utilities.

Education paid YES well sort of-
You don't get any cash, you are reimbursed for 90% up to a limit. Unfortunately the limit no longer covers the recent price rises at most schools. As an example the allowance for primary school has just been increased from 19000 to 23500 per year per child, most schools now cost 28000.

Provident fund paid YES-
But you also have to contribute a percentage of your own to pay, no choice. Due to mismanagement the value of most pilots provident fund is now less than what has been contributed. After 15 years in EK the payout value would give you a deposit on a house in the UK, but you wont be retiring on it.

Private health cover YES at the EK clinic--
But its not free you contribute each month,again you have no choice, just as you have no choice of doctors, or a surgeon if you need something done. EK no longer give you a choice of treatment back home at same cost, as they use to.

Loss of license YES-
But the company self insures, therefore addition loss of license, and death cover is essential.

Free transport YES-
A nice benefit.

Allowances to pay for a few beers YES-
But but not enough to actually eat with and are amongst the worst in the industry, and are going down all the time.

Life Style -
Varies depending on fleet, and position, ie numbers at the time on each type, routes flow. At present Captains at least on both fleets are very busy doing upwards of 85 to 90 hours per month Many flights are minimum rest, a few are less than minimum rest and operate under a dispensation. Most pilots would get 10 days a month at home in Dubai.

Added up, the maximum actual pay you are going to receive as an FO is a little over 14000 dhs per month after you take out your compulsory provident fund contribution, medical, and other contributions, or 28000 pounds /40000 euros per year as none of the other benefits are paid as cash. The basic pay has gone from 13500 ,15 years ago to, 16500 today. Theres no doubting the package is worth something but you cant take the unrealistic costs of these benefits in Dubai and convert them to a wage. In most countries you would make money by living in your own house through capital gains. As for schools and medical, the public facilities in any first world country are free, and of a higher standard than in Dubai.

All in all, the company it self is pretty good, but the pay and benefits benefits are becoming very shabby.. If your single, its probably worth considering, if your married and have a position with any half descent, stable, airline in your own country, it definitely does not add up. You wont here too much complaining about EK on this forumn as there is only one governemt owned ISP which is closely monitored.

A very helpful post; thank you for your time and effort.

White knight the post from alluru refers.

The money from full aircraft could not possibly run the airline and fund the crew goody bags. commercial rents and purchases are expensive in dubai, so there are obviously other ways of subsidising the operation.

I dont resent you your lifestyle .in fact having been an expat most of my workin life i know where you are coming from.

ps i dont work for ryanair, and i think we should strive to keep this thread off topic

as for the other guy schrodingers cat if i was shouting THE TEXT WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS,

Ther is also a difference being the hired help in your own country than the domestics of an uppity bunch of mysoginists

Allaru

thats what i meant few days ago
think of lifestyle,being at home(own country) and many more things you can do while you own your own house
you are actually very corect of what you said well done

so think about it before you commite your selfs to the desert
EK is not the only or best airline to work for

Allaru thanks for your post. Its interesting to see some facts for the counter point.

I'm gonna copy and save it.
I think I'll name the file 'Why I don't work at EK.doc'.
I'll look at it again if Iever feel like quitting here. :ok:

Millers Court - I can't see where the burnt bridges come from:confused: I left my last company in good stead!!! I'm sure that if I really wanted to I could get a good job in UK. The point is that I have NO interest in living and working in Blighty. I can't understand some people's fascination with an overcrowded, overpopulated, overtaxed place like that. :confused:
And as for the "free" 1st world education and health care - well what a load of effing bollocks that is:mad: :mad: My children are doing FAR better at an "English" school here in Dubai - that I pay lot's of money for, yes I have more than 3 children- than they ever did at the "free" state school in England that they used to go to. And for which I paid £1800 per month in TAX - yes that's right, the dreaded TAX word. (and that's £21,600 per YEAR)
"Free" health - get real people, if you are any kind of professional in UK you will have private health insurance for you and your family...The NHS won't help you.
I certainly am not knocking anyone for wanting to live and work in Blighty - each to their own and all that. Remember also that for a lot of us who have recently come to EK are here for LIFESTYLE reasons and not financial reasons.
Here endeth my cider induced lesson - oh yes, we can get alcohol here as well:ok: :ok:

All salient points Allaru, and fairly factual, thanks.

Most of the comparison becomes blurred when ,as white knight mentioned, the dreaded tax becomes involved.

l, like others, would never leave a good job back home to come here, at least that is what l thought.

After my last company went bust two years ago, l set my sights on, and got into, Emirates.

Happy? YES.

Regretful? YES, that l didn't come here years ago.

Compared to the package l had at home (antipodean) this is a good deal. Cash wise it is less, however with living outgoings taken care of like accommodation, utilities, education, etc, it's a lot better.

Oh, and no tax.

l know it hasn't happened in the past and may never happen again, but 14 months pay a year isn't bad.

Thats right two months extra pay, that covers or at least contributes to the cost of all the missing points outlined by Allaru
.

Glassy eyed? NO. Just appreciative to have a good job and be in a good home with my family, and happy.

Concerned about direct entry captains? YES, but what can l do?
l won't be loosing sleep over it.

One ISP provider? NO. If you live at internet city you have another. (I understand a quality satellite service is soon to start;))

And an average of 17 days off a month, and 75 stick time at one sector a day (99% of the time), l am a pig in the proverbial.

This place has the usual amount of whingers complaining how bad things are. Having been in this industry for two decades, nothing has changed. Same !!!! different airline/day, no matter which side of the fence you are on. And as far as they are concerned it will never change.

Now it's time to find a beer and locate the mnet remote, and relax after my first 20 minute sector in two years.

halas

Halas, fair play to you, its great to see you are happy there.

As I said in my original...nothing against EK, but the stampede to join up just seems misguided.

Just one question regarding your post.
You mention 14 months pay per year.
I've 'visited' other companies in that neck of the woods who pay a 13th month at around Xmas/New Year.
All the staff seemed to think this was great...a bonus month! :bored:

Fact is of course that if you divide 52 weeks by four you can see that while there are 12 calendar months in a year there are actually 13 'pay months' (i.e. four week blocks).

If you were being paid 12 months wages for 52 weeks work you would in fact be getting ripped off! But I expect you knew that.

Whats the 14th month? Is that the bonus payment? Is it guarenteed or 'discretionary'? ;)

Fish, I understand the property market in Dubai is not as free as we might be used to in the mature economies of the west. For instance, while it may now be possible for non locals to own a house there, what about when it comes to selling? Are there enough non local buyers to create a real market for your property?

In my corner of europe I've seen property prices increase an average of 200% in the last ten years. My own gaff is now worth three times what I paid for it 6 years ago. Partly this was driven by a shortage of building land. Last time I was in Dubai I could see no shortage of land. There is in fact loads of it. All flat and empty.

Will the Dubai property market show 2 0r 300% returns in the next 6 or 10 years?
Kinda risky punt I reckon.

There are better places to put yer money.

You say you don't know many UK pilots with 14 houses?
Oooerrr....I do!
A lot of them are in FR! Some even have massive houses/farms down the country too!:}

I know a lot of EK'ers are buying property in the UK on buy to let. So they should...it's their pension.

Fortunately mine's not reliant on the property market.

I much prefer the idea of a guarenteed final salary pension, underwritten by a strong fund with pilots on the board of trustees, to a few quid being thrown into a mortgage in a sandpit.

I'd prefer to do my own property speculation on the side, and not have to worry about screwin it all up just before I hit 60. :ooh:

Anyhow, owning a 2nd home in the Cote D'Azur is far nicer than a 22nd home in Dubai...or Canary Wharf.:E

:cool: :cool: When I go on leave I usually go to my second house on the Costa Del Sol :cool: :cool: Just bragging - sorry !!

Pensions, mmm, having seen a load of my old Cityflyer colleagues lose thousands of pounds when Equitable Life went tits up, I have to say that no pension is a sure thing - no matter how many pilots are on the board .

Fish - I'll see you for a game of pool in CMB soon:ok:

Straits Times, 15 September 2003

Aussie plan to avoid Sars may hit Singapore

“Australia is in talks with the Singapore Government and airlines about alternative routes for international flights as a way to shield its tourism sector from any new outbreak of Sars.
In a move which could hit Singapore as a stopover destination, (Australian) Tourism Minister Joe Hockey said yesterday he thought Sars would re-emerge this northern winter, and officials were drawing up contingency plans to divert aircraft through countries not affected by the killer virus.
Australia is still reeling from the impact of the severe acute respiratory syndrome on its tourism industry, which suffered a 22.5% fall in overseas visitors during May (2003) alone.
Changing routes to avoid infected countries could have serious implications for Singapore as it funnels millions of visitors into Australia every year…….”

Could be the surprise plan to introduce the ex-SQ A340-300’s to EK is not only a smart marketing move but also exceptionally well timed (great to have a bit of luck now and again, isn’t it?).

Un-infected EK DXB-SYD/MEL direct flights will have immediate appeal to the Australian Government and are an obvious solution for Sars conscious European origin connecting traffic, using the shortly to be introduced A340-500/600’s (7481 nm great circle – www.gc.kls2.com ), to neatly cut out Sars affected BKK/SIN as the current traffic stops of preference.

The ex-SQ aircraft should now be able to take up slack generated by probable much higher than planned frequency of the new 500/600’s, on these two direct routes, substituting on any shorter routes planned for the 500/600's, as a means of achieving required utilization targets, following delivery from Toulouse.

Looks like the airline could be market driven after all – and still a good place to be for both Captains and FO’s.

maxalt

The company has an annual bonus system.

If the Emirates group make a profit above budget, then there is a profit share amoungst all the employees.

How it works is all smoke and mirrors stuff, but this year looks like another bumper yield. And it's certainly not as insidious as the scheme you outlined.

As a result of the last financial year, all EK employees received eight weeks extra pay as a bonus.

Thats two months(ish) worth of pay, that as some have pointed out is to make up for a lot of short falls in the contract.

Yes it is a carrot, but a quite a few parts of the contract are, and it makes sense to keep people here as long as they can.

Gotta go and organise my annual leave ticket, and may even drop into the SARS affected zone for a few catch up beers on the way.

halas

PS: Advert in next weeks Flight Int. apparently.

Halas you sound like a nice guy. Have a good holiday mate.

:ok:

Maxalt, just going through your posts, I cannot help but think their is a little bitterness there towards, the Emirates - comments like

"Who'd want to join the Emirates, the pay is crap and no pension" - well the fact that they have over 1000 CVs at any given time, must mean a lot of chaps do.

"I can understand people with no jobs taking the post at Emirates" - Just off the top of my head, I can name 5 ex FR Captains here, how many ex Emirates guys do you have? Lets talk facts and figures.

You go on and on with your critising and negative comments, but are very quick to stress, that you came for an interview and of course got the job, but "naturally" turned it down, and were very quick to justify how happy you are now with your life, I am happy for you, everyone deserves happiness, but you sound far too bitter for someone that got the job, and a lot more like someone who was turned down, and is now taking it very personally. A lot more guys are turned down than are successful, really good guys, two of our best friends did not make it. But you know what I admire about them, they admit they did not make it, and are honest enough to say, given a second chance, they would be here like a shot.

Yes, there are a few people that are not happy here,but show me one company anywhere in this world, where there is a 100% job satisfaction, (including your neck of the woods, I too come from there.) You are working with the human factor, people will always moan about their lot in life, and most of the time, there are other factors involve, causing the unhappiness. But I can assure you there are a lot more happy than unhappy people here. Action speaks louder than words, how many guys do the Emirates lose a month? Most months none, other than to retirement. You make it sound like all the desparados come here, how wrong you are, they draw pilots from all the major airlines, good guys and top notch pilots, guys that deserve to be proud of themselves for making the selection, as not only are they competing with guys from their own countries, but guys from all over the world.

We came here over 4 years ago, my hubby left a good job with a good company that is still going very strong - we came to visit friends here, liked what we saw and the rest is history. Dubai has been very good to us, yes I too would like more money, which wife wouldn't, but I just have to walk outside my front door to see all the guys in our complex's toys - boats,bikes,quads, 4x4s, Porches (unfortunatelly not ours.) We are defnitelly not on the bones of our butts living here. We have never regretted our decision, and most people will tell you that this is a good place to bring up kids, they remain a lot more innocent for a lot more longer than they do back home, call me silly, but I like that fact.

I have just come from a get together with 14 other wives, oops we forgot to moan about who has a bigger villa, if I remember I will bring it up at the next get together. ALL 14 of us had a great summer holiday back home, but were more than happy to be back, some even came back earlier. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is the truth. There are a lot of happy people here who love the lifestyle in Dubai, accept this Maxalt and move on with your life, and to the guys that are thinking of applying, go for it, come see for yourselves.

If the Ryanair guys that come here are anything to go by, then there is a great bunch of guys there, and I never met an Irishman that I did not like. d:) so........ enough about how bad it is here and back to the topic on hand - a topic I know nothing about. Are they going to take D.E.C. I hope not, unless they go down the list and there is absolutely no one left to promote within.

Dumpvalve I can assure you I was offerred the job and decided against it. The offer was for the A300, an old technology aircraft, and that coupled with a drop into the RHS did not represent an intelligent move for me - or anyone else with options.

Also I never much liked the idea of an Islamic state as a home.

If you think that every single guy who gets offerred a job takes it immediately I think you're deluding yourself.

Subsequent developments in the ME have made me glad I took that decision. You may think its a great place to bring up kids right now, but thats what the folks in Saudi thought just before Al Qaeda blew dozens of them to smithereens.

Couldn't happen in Dubai?
Perhaps you think AlQaeda don't exist in Dubai?
I assure you they do.

History is a long road with many turns. I prefer to watch such developments on TV.
I hope you stay safe.

maxalt, that is a thought provoking post. I live in London and AlQaeda hang out here too. I wouldn't make a career move because of any perceived threat.

Maxalt - are you with M16/M15, the CIA or any other national intelligence organisation by any chance ?? You seem to know a few things.
And if you never much liked the idea of an Islamic state as a home then why the hell did you supposedly waste everybody's time by coming for an interview:confused: :confused:

The schools have Christmas and Easter breaks here, it's not a radical place like KSA. And my wife is allowed to drive...

Also remember more people got killed by Al Qaeda in a western country than over here...And apart from a few bombings in KSA, what are these recent developments ?? I can think of a few recent Basque bombings in Spain, Jakarta is pretty hot at the moment, Mumbai as well. Oh, and you could get run over by a bus while crossing the High Street in Cork, Emerald Isle.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Might as well add my 2 dirhams worth as well.

Would anybody care to define what a secure, stable airline is when considering whether to come to EK or not?

How about Swissair or United, American, US Air or even BA, KLM ?

Is anybody guaranteed a job for life in a major let alone a minor airline these days ?

Everybody has to make their own personal decision whether to come to Emirates or not. You are not forced to.

I have been here 8 years, have 3 kids, left a command in the UK, have had it back for 5 years, and neither myself or my wife have regretted it for one minute.

White Knight.

No Maxie isn't one of the legit. agencies. We have crossed swords (or should that be sticks of dynamite and Armalites) on a few occassions on other forums. He's more of your, how shall we say..."Provisonal" man, a "Real" enthusiast, and looking forward to the "Continuity" of the status quo in a far flung corner of the British Isles. If you need any more clues he's a keen Glasgow Celtic fan,hates the colour Orange and goes to Mass EVERY Sunday complete with rosary beads. Capiche?
So he should be in the know really, I mean Terrorist talketh unto Terrorist!

:ok:

Why don't you all stop dumping on Maxalt. I also live in the middle and although I am not a pilot what he says about the environment and the surroundings is absolutely accurate. For example in Dubai, you hit the nail right on the head maxalt when you wrote about how many locals will buy property. The real estate market is not going to move upwards like what people think for 2 reasons. There are always many many project going up and people who buy want to buy in the "newest hot area". I have a friend who bought 3 really nice places 21/2 years ago and now wants out of 1... yeah right... good luck.
If I had kids.. never in my life would I be here in the middle east. You see all these expat kids who are running around like spoiled brats... ever heard the expressions "expat brats" Well sorry to say folks in the majority of the cases it is true.

Why do so many people come here? 1 reason.. MONEY.. Everyone here is a prostitute including myself. I am not ashamed to admit it.

Let me ask some questions...

1. Does the fact that tensions are rising with Iran worry anyone?
2. Did you know that Dubai is a huge haven for Al Qaeda?
3. Are you 100% guaranteed that your kids won't be victim of a car bomb while going to school?

Yeah Dubai will be a great place once the US start playing war games with Iran.. considering you are less than 200 miles from the Iranian coast.

Everyone thought Riyadh was a safe place. look how many lost their lives there!

I am from Canada.. don't remember last time things like this happened there.

I too escaped taxes, cold weather and came here for a chance to put some cash in the bank.... but as maxalt says.. don't delude yourselves.. not everyone who is offered a job takes it.

Fire away!

EuroATC

And your point is?

Do Pia fly into dubai?

Maybe they can provide the direct entry captains and we can combine threads.

let me see now is this how the scale of rights and pecking order in dubai

emirate arab
other arabs
muslims
diplomatic staff
multi national CEO's
euopean expats
disposable expat flight crew (indigenisation)
expat women
subcontinent domestics.
other women

not far from the bottom. mind you in the uk you could shuufle it all around , substitute expats for brits and get pretty much the same result.

And pontius before you ask i have no point. By the way that saying is so last year, very patronising and used by people that feel superior in a debate. he didnt have a point he was just concurring and elaborating.

emirates is the new black.

Lets keep it ofF topic the slaggin is much more fun.

White Knight I guess I tried out EK just to see personally what they were like.
I'd heard good and bad reports about them.
Also, although I was (I admit) somewhat prejudiced as to what to expect of an Islamic State, I'd never visited one before so I figured I owed it a look and a fair hearing.

You suspend judgement while you sound things out for yourself.

Since they offerred me the job I don't believe I wasted their time! Any interview is a two way street mate.
I don't think I wasted my own time because it was an education and an experience.

One of the things that stuck in my mind after being offerred the job was the comments of the EK Group Interview facilitator. He had regaled us with his experience of a recent car accident he'd had with a 'local'. Although the local guy had (he said) run him off the road in a dangerous overtaking manoeuver it was him who was charged with dangerous driving and had to pay for the damage to the local guys limo as well as his own wrecked undercarriage.
He stressed the point that there was no real justice or equality for expats in any kind of dispute with a local, and that it would be best to understand and accept that fact when choosing to work there
(or buying property there I guess :p ).

Lets face it, Islamic countries don't have a wonderful reputation for their standards of 'justice', or of workers rights.
And its in a war zone, as EuroATC says. White Knight, you can't be much of a reader if you don't know about the Dubai connection with 9-11.

I think its good these issues are out in the open. Gives the over eager a chance to educate themselves before taking the plunge. Just like me I guess they'll make their own minds up, but at least they'll be fore-warned and fore-armed to make the judgement. I guess many will realise you're just swopping one bunch of problems for another by choosing to go there.

Pontius, you really need your head tested. :E

PS. Interesting post JackPoint. Crossed with mine and yet made the same point...Expats in Dubai are sixth class citizens!:suspect: