"Mr. O'Leary said the airline had 'some goodies' to propose to pilots, but added: 'If pilots misbehave, that will be the end of the goodies." - BBC, 21/09/17

As someone who has been a union member for 28 years, I urge you Ryanair pilots to misbehave, if not for yourself, then for the generations behind you. You have a unique moment to teach this condescending jerk that he cannot get away with treating his passengers and staff with such contempt.

The VERY best of luck to you all.... The whole industry supports you, and has a keen interest in finally turning the corner of constant cuts to our terms and conditions. Keep up the good work!

Y es. You are right. You start your career with a debt. Why make that debt bigger by getting a mortgage? The whining bit about the mortgage annoyed me. I am fully aware of all the mousetraps ahead of you once you start a flying career.I can remember a KLM pilot who in the sixties rented a house. After a couple of years of flying and not drinking or :mad: around he ow ned a house. Payed off and his alone. Had a :mad: seniority too.todays pilotes are for the biggest part spoilt snowflakes .Period.

https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/st...02221738151936

Now where did I put that cv...

@PA28161

By that token, would you say the job of a doctor is difficult? Once you have trained and are practised in medicine perhaps the concept of difficulty becomes moot. I.e. I would find it difficult but you wouldn't.

I'm asking this in trying to get to grips with Ryanair boss's comment today:

“Once you are trained and skilled at doing it ... I would challenge any pilot to explain how this is a difficult job or how it is they are overworked or how anybody who by law can’t fly more than 18 hours a week could possibly be suffering from fatigue.”

Sounds like the crew smell blood in the water. Time to take a big bite!


P.S. It sounds like MOL (incredibly) is reaching for the stick again. I suspect the only way he survives is by dishing out carrots; lots of them and not necessarily those which he would like to dish out.

I wonder if he is in denial.

the chief Ryanair spokesman is quoted as saying 'we do not operate zero hour contracts'.

I wonder how he defines 'zero hour contract'. No fly = no pay and no paid holidays. It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck............
There was a judge who previously, in a case against RYR, labelled the defendants as "not credible witnesses." This quote sounds similar.

Back to the shortage question. It takes 2 months for a TR course. It then takes another couple of weeks for base training and then another 2-3 months to complete Line Training, if there are enough LTC's, and that's debatable no doubt. The recruitment process takes a few weeks. So, for any cadet wanting to be on line as a released line pilot (and remember there is probably a safety pilot also for the first couple of weeks) the whole process could take 6-8 months. April 2018, i.e. the summer program, is 6 months away. Assuming there are more airframes arriving before then the training demand for F/O's & new captains could well be greater than the training dept can supply. It is possible to calculate that now, well in advance. It is also known how many pilots & cabin crew have handed in their notice or retired, and it can be estimated how any will leave within the next 12 months to the end of summer 2018.
From the outside this does not seem a 6 week problem. Plus, flying during leave might not solve the hours and FTL's issue. And the amount offered, net after tax, is derisory when set against the amount that could be saved for the company. But, IMHO, this is a problem that will extend far into the future. There are not enough trees to shake with enough desperate monkeys in them.

The T's & C's that need to change would I'd have thought include: proper employee contracts; proper paid leave system; proper salary not hi% in flight pay; proper pension scheme base on 50-66% premiums of actual income; proper basing scheme where people want to live & work; proper out of base rosters all duty time with travel & costs paid; no self-funding of mandatory simulator sessions; travel & hotel costs paid during those sim sessions; travel & hotel costs paid during command upgrade courses; etc. etc. OMG that sounds like most of the other airlines. IMHO that is too much to happen, but it is what the competition offers. For one who lives by markets forces you can also be hurt badly by market forces. MF's affect workers as much as customers.

MOL has now issued defamation proceedings against The Guardian and Irish pilots union IALPA.


Mr O'Leary told Ryanair's annual meeting in Dublin that it did not have sufficient spare pilots for September, October and November to ensure smooth operations and was considering forcing some pilots to change their annual leave plans. He has finally admitted their are pilot shortages is Dublin, Frankfurt and Berlin.

MOL will re-group, weather the storm and come back fighting!
He has lots of dirty tricks in his arsenal and not afraid to use them.
It's about as bad as it's ever been BUT with board backing, piles of cash, he'll squash any union!

So you really think next year's Brexit implications for airlines out of the UK was a bluff?

BBC: Mr O'Leary said the airline had "some goodies" to propose to pilots, but added: "If pilots misbehave, that will be the end of the goodies."

This may sound like repetition, but in view of the CRETINOUS comments that spew out of O'Leary's mouth, I thought it should be repeated.

He really does believe his pilots are spoiled 5-year olds!

Guardian link
 

Guardian journalist
 

Hi all

I'm covering developments with Ryanair for The Guardian. I'm keen to speak to pilots regarding MOL's response to the concerns expressed by some of you.

In addition, I'm particularly interested in employment conditions and the agency/contract model.

I've been told that some pilots are facing HMRC probes as a result of an employment arrangement they were not keen on to begin with.

Feel free to answer this post or contact me on rob dot davies at guardian co uk

Thanks

What a greedy obnoxious impression that man gives . . .

All these reports of bullying and intimidatory management are unlikely to be wrong IMHO.

Reminds me of someone who ran a freight company in France, then Belgium . . .

I am an Irish journalist working for the national broadcaster, RTÉ.

I would like to speak, in confidence and off record, to any current or former Ryan Air pilots on this forum.

Please don't post here if you want to speak to me.

You can mail me - [email protected]

I also use two secure, end to end encrypted messaging apps

Threema where my ID is FYE3T6UM

Or on Signal where my number is 0878262587

All communication will be treated sensitively and discretely.

I'm retired (thankfully) but when I hear MOL spouting untruths such as pilots only doing 18 hours a week it makes me have to work on my anger management.

Hi, keen to speak to pilots for The Guardian. Have a few issues i want to discuss with some of you, if you're willing. Can be anonymous.

But MOL talks 168 hours a week so he is worth far more . . .

I'm retired (thankfully) but when I hear MOL spouting untruths such as pilots only doing 18 hours a week it makes me have to work on my anger management.

Sadly there always seem to be the wrong journalists in the wrong place at the wrong time. I watched a press conference in Sweden; I watched BBC Hardtalk: I watched a presentation in Brussels by todays modern revolutionary CEO's. Some tried to tie MOL down and they were so badly informed or briefed, or just lacking in knowledge of the subject they were listening to, their banal questions had the sting of a marshmallow. Even Hardtack focused on trying to embarrass MOL with some trivial pax encounters. It was a one-sided rout. It seems they are not there to ask searching questions, but just report what is spouted out. A few pilots asking the questions would have been more to the point. The TV program, with anonymous pilots, that attempted to portray RYR as a fundamentally unsafe airline due to fuel policy was doomed to failure.
There are enough subjects on which to focus to bring out the underlying truth without trying to be sensational. I wonder if IALPA has woken up to what is going on and they are wondering why it has taken natural forces to achieve what it could not, even with all its supposed expertise.

"A pilot's job isn't difficult."
"How does a pilot suffer from fatigue?"
"Pilot's only work 18 hours a week."

All quotes from MOL at today's AGM. Same rhetoric that he has used for years with regards to pilot's working hours and job entailment. It's pretty obvious the PR stance that FR are set to take on this one.

It would be interesting if their pilots did this alleged 18 hours of work a week and not a minute more and see how well his airline runs.

He is an one trick pony, though that trick has served him and RYR very well for the last couple of decades. It is still far from sure that this crew shortage will mean the end of RYR as we know it, hopefully it might.

Probably not, but treating them as such was so far beneficial to RYR's bottom line, not to mention some who have cashed their shares recently.

Ryanair's management upheavel a few years ago was all about the sales side, but Ryanair is also involved in production. The production of flights with all the organization and coordination of input through proper ERM processes that takes.
It is time to consider an AGB - Always Getting Better - program directed inwards. Some reorganisation and low cost high visibility improvements of conditions worked for the recruitment to Ryanair Labs.

It isn't his pilots who have defined the limits.

Does this line of rhetoric imply he might consider conducting a dispute with EASA and other bodies, in order to increase maximum duty hours?

Unfortunately these are, in my experience, also the pre-conceived assumptions of many who know little about the job and what it really entails. One has only to hope that the media give sufficient voice to the pilots who are highlighting the reality of the situation.

They should all tell him we’ll work 18 hours a week because that’s what you pay us for, and see how that turns out !

it's your time guys, you guys have the golden opportunity to get improvements now. press now or never. Don't loose this chance. Good luck

Any truth about rumour that chief pilot has resigned?

“I don’t even know how there would be industrial action in Ryanair,” O’Leary said. “There isn’t a union.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-cancellations

There you go guys and gals, MOL has told you what to do. Get a union

O'L can say what he wants about pilot lifestyles but the pilots are gagged by the companies social media and other non disclosure policies. O'L has been on a win win with that for years but all the lies about holiday cock ups and all the other stuff is well and truly knocking upon his door now.

it'll be interesting how O'L manages this if those still working there do go sick on a staged system as it'll sent a great message to them and the customers.

Good luck boys and girls this is your time.

Or £25 if you upgrade to Priority Voting :E

I also echo the support for the Ryr pilots. MOL is finally on the back foot. He sounds like he's going to be his usual arrogant self and play hard ball. Problem is the ball is very much in the pilots court. At the end of the day it's an airline, MOL can leave and it will still run as an airline, without the pilots and cabin crew, you have no airline.

Guys and gals your time has finally come where you can get what you've so richly deserved for all those year of poor treatment. Now is the time to stand up and be counted. Good luck.

Nothing will change whilst MOL is in place.

Business leaders with his style of management - rule by fear - have long memories and any gains will be short lived whilst he is in place. He will make it his business to take revenge.

Eventually he will have to be removed by the shareholders for progress to be made. He will never understand an inclusive style of management and genuinely believes he is something special. The last one I remember in the same mould was ExSir Fred Goodwin.

One; two; three ...

Why do you think they're 'working for RYR' anyway?

Think about it. It's a :mad: company.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ares-1.3110409

Is it coincidence?

In a previous reply one forum member told me I had no respect when I suggested the RYR pilots to get rid of O Lairy and his bandit management.

Again, O Lairy has no respect what so ever for both cockpit and cabin crew, claiming "they only work 18 hrs per month"

Once again, go get him and get him hard!

Go on strike pan European or call in sick all together. And indeed, GET UNIONISED!

Hopefull then this clown will finally give in and makes this the real Southwest Airlines of Europe. A great airline, where people love to work for and where the management loves and respect their employees as well.

A market conform salary, fixed contracts, no vague work as a independent via an agency with uncertain tax claims, normal sick pay, the right to have your holliday when you want, maybe at a rotational base, as not every flightcrew can have vacation at the same time, a good pension plan and loss of licence. And finally the right to be member with a union reckognised by the company, of which the representatives can do the negotiations for you.

Go for it! It is now or never!
And finally bonded for a type rating instead of having to pay upfront.

He still has 47,000,000 shares. Don't think he's going anywhere just yet!

Buggah!

Ya mean he's still the boss?

Buggah!

Is Panic Setting in?

Have a look at your favorite Flight Radar/Plane Finder (whatever) - you will see that 2 RYR 73s, EI-FOH & EI-SEV have been pounding the circuit ALL DAY at Shannon (SNN) - is MO'L trying to qualify all the 100+ new pilots he has promised the media in one day?

Is it possible for EASA to censure a national aviation authority, because this mess would not have happened if the state CAA had actually regulated the operation and complied with EASA rules?