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Pilot shortage?
Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]
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Hope that the pilots will get together collectively in every major base and start demanding better t&c's. They have the manpower to do it. Perhaps they've already done it, we might see some strikes here and there in future if FR will continue ignoring them.
-GS- |
Originally Posted by RichardBeeb
(Post 9895426)
Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]
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Originally Posted by anderse
(Post 9895385)
From quotes:
A draft plan and commitment to supply the resources (increased staff numbers, proper training and modern software) necessary to adequately staff the supporting departments of the company (crew control, rostering, payrol, maintrol etc.) not receiving the support they are expecting from Crew control. No hotel booked or hotels booked via touristic website Taxi’s to/from Airports are never booked. |
They save on admin staff costs by getting the pilots to be their own secretary and book their own everything basically.
This works on a very limited basis but now the demand to send Ryanair full time contracted pilots out of base has become so great the admin departments that do exist are still (I guess) at the staffing levels when the airline was a fraction of the size it is now. When an airline grows everything has to grow with it and thats doesn't seem to have happened when it comes to the basic admin areas of the airline. |
Ryanair under pressure to publish full list of cancelled flights - BBC News
"Reports on Monday suggested recruitment problems were affecting the airline and that it had lost pilots to rival Norwegian Air. A Norwegian spokesperson said: "We can confirm that 140 pilots have joined us from Ryanair this year. Pilot recruitment is also underway for more pilots for our new Dublin base opening later this year." Ryanair has not issued a response to the claims." Interesting last line - MOL is not not normally known for his lack of words! |
Originally Posted by UAV689
(Post 9895177)
Where is rpg in this great opportunity....
Last email they sent out was saying to join local ALPA |
Interesting last line - MOL is not not normally known for his lack of words! If you follow my link at #151 you'll get a flavor of his response. |
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Originally Posted by RichardBeeb
(Post 9895426)
Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]
What proportion of Ryanair pilots are employed through an Agency, or through so-called "self employment"? If it was me and I had the opportunity to jump ship and move to a more secure contract elsewhere I'd be gone in a heartbeat. |
It was always going to be that way. During the 'dark ages' Ryanair were the only people hiring - they could call the shots. Enter the period where jobs abound (apparently) and you then get a far more fluid human resource market. Pilots who have cut their teeth with Ryanair will undoubtedly look for the next step up their career ladder. Ryanair has never really offered career options. Of course, MOL's solution is to just shop around for more 200hr fodder from the flying schools; pity they can't keep up.
There's a skill fade issue here, not just for Ryanair. What accident was the catalyst in USA for revisiting qualifications and experience? |
Havent Ryanair had a high turnover of pilots since they started on the Lo-Co business model. From what I know of people who worked there they are mainly used by newly qualified pilots for hour building before they move on to a 'real' job.
Is the present leaving situation any worse than it always has been? |
Originally Posted by littco
(Post 9895216)
Also noticed that MOL sold 4million shares on the 17thjune for £76million!
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Here a quote from the German news magazin "Der Spiegel" about the issue (translated by google):
"It is also speculated about a completely different background: According to the aviation expert Gerald Wissel from the consulting company Airborne, Ryanair is preparing for the possible case that the insolvent Air Berlin must stop its flight operation from lack of money prematurely. "In the case of a premature 'grounding' of Air Berlin, the coveted start and land rights would have to be immediately given again by the responsible coordinator of the Federal Republic," Wissel told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur. The surcharge could only be received by companies, which could then also fly with corresponding aircraft the routes. Ryanair wanted some machines in the hindquarters. The Irish company withdrew from bidding for the insolvent airline at the end of August. Criticism nevertheless reaped her: Berlin's Governing Mayor Michael Miiller, the airline as an "anti-business enterprise" with a "early capitalist" business model. Economically, Ryanair is currently in a good position: its second quarter, from April to the end of June, the low-cost airline closed with a net profit of 397 million euros." [SIC] |
Good thing Ryanair made a healthy profit - they'll be needing some readies for this:
Ryanair faces 20m euros compensation bill over cancellations - BBC News |
Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
(Post 9895620)
It was always going to be that way. During the 'dark ages' Ryanair were the only people hiring - they could call the shots. Enter the period where jobs abound (apparently) and you then get a far more fluid human resource market. Pilots who have cut their teeth with Ryanair will undoubtedly look for the next step up their career ladder. Ryanair has never really offered career options. Of course, MOL's solution is to just shop around for more 200hr fodder from the flying schools; pity they can't keep up.
There's a skill fade issue here, not just for Ryanair. What accident was the catalyst in USA for revisiting qualifications and experience? Now, you must have 1500hrs min to get hired anywhere in the USA. |
As referred to before in this thread, a quote from the latest BBC update.
'One anonymous Ryanair pilot has told the BBC that the leave issue is a red herring and that the root cause of the problem is that too many pilots are leaving Ryanair and the company is struggling to train up new crew.' |
Cancellation fiasco and EU court woes wipe €2bn off Ryanair value
This is the price for treating employees like trash.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...24945?mode=amp |
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...25116?mode=amp
Ryanair have announced a series of emergency personnel measures to ease the pressure on the raft of flight cancellations the company has made since Friday. The airline, which also announced it would publish all flight cancellations through October by the end of the day, plans to buy back annual leave from pilots to ease pressure the company’s chief executive, Michael O’Leary, said on Monday. Commenting on the ongoing uncertainty Mr O’Leary said that while the airline doesn’t have a pilot shortage, other airlines are poaching pilots. It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia. Speaking on a call with analysts, Mr O’Leary also said the company plans to introduce pilot loyalty bonuses in an effort to keep its crew. Mr O’Leary said its flight cancellations “will have a reputational impact” and noted that punctuality performance at the airline had dropped to between 60 and 70 per cent. Ryanair, which now expects compensation claims of up to €20 million, moved on Friday to say it will operate a programme of flight cancellations over the next six weeks because of pilot shortage difficulties. The disruptions to its flights schedule will affect thousands of travellers, including some who are abroad and are expecting to return home with the airline. |
I want MOL in my office for tea & biscuits :E
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Mr O'Leary can say he will recruit pilots from wherever he wants. There will still be a shortage of trainers to get them onto the line - and there's a shortage of trainers to train any new trainers. It's a spiral that will be very very difficult now for Ryanair to get out of, and we will either see aircraft parked up or mass cancellations again next Summer.
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Commenting on the ongoing uncertainty Mr O’Leary said that while the airline doesn’t have a pilot shortage, other airlines are poaching pilots. It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia.
Speaking on a call with analysts, Mr O’Leary also said the company plans to introduce pilot loyalty bonuses in an effort to keep its crew. No one would be able to "poach" hundreds of pilots from Ryan Air if they had better T&C at Ryan Air... |
Originally Posted by annakm
(Post 9895653)
Good thing Ryanair made a healthy profit - they'll be needing some readies for this:
Ryanair faces 20m euros compensation bill over cancellations - BBC News |
Originally Posted by Skyjob
(Post 9895735)
€20.000.000 divided by 4.500 pilots would be a €4,444 pay rise each, which could've avoided the situation maybe?
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"It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia."
I wonder if the Air Berlin and Alitalia pilots are aware of this wonderful offer. Cue massively over inflated binding bid for Alitalia just to get the pilots. |
And right till this day experienced FOs are being charged €35,000 for a TR that costs the company no more than $12,000. RYR deserves everything it gets.
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All well and good the erc getting together. Shame for the contractors who have no such forum.
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It will cost way more than 20m euro. The lost goodwill alone will cost that at least. Would you really want to be booking a ryanair flight in the run up to xmas if you were not sure it would get you there?
And imagine the lost money from the lost scratch card sales on those cancelled flights!!! Sorry, lost charity donations I meant to say. Because of course it goes to charity. The charitable MOL horse racing fund. |
The press need to start digging a little deeper into this, as ex Ryan I'm glad to be out of it and have a more relaxed pace where I am. Its the trainers that are suffering at my current airline and suffering terribly. The line Joe's have it easy. Ryan was hard work even on the 5/4.
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€20.000.000 divided by 4.500 pilots would be a €4,444 pay rise each, which could've avoided the situation maybe?
I doubt it. That is 2 weeks pay for a proper pilot. Any acceptees must be cheap-skates. |
It's also funny how popular (:}) MOL seems to be on a personal level on here. No one generally minds a smart businessman, but I guess it's how they go about it?
Apologies for the poor quality, but I do like this Ryanair Song: https://youtu.be/c_nqwAKCq-Q |
Originally Posted by JetpoweredMigrantWkr
(Post 9895657)
It was Colgan Air Flight 3407.
Now, you must have 1500hrs min to get hired anywhere in the USA. And O'Reilly can simply show Ryanair's safety record and shut down the debate. |
Sadly the general public will forget in a few months Airlines of every shape and size know that the global pax/tourist flyer market (which is expanding at a phenomenal rate, esp in Asia) will tolerate almost anything when it comes to getting them to exotic destinations that their grandparents would only ever see in James Bond movies. It is not just MOL and Ryanair that know this...they all do and as profit -seeking businesses it is their primary function to exploit this to the best return for their shareholders and/or owners. It is the regulators job to ensure they play by the rules, as it is in so many industries. As for the individual...well we have freedom of choice both as pilots and as pax. If you don't like Ryanair, don't work for them and don't fly with them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but certainly today a great deal of humble pie (sincere...I doubt it) is being eaten. Which suggests to me a slight degree of panic, and I suspect the fear of a mass migration of pilots to their immediate competitors, may be their biggest concern. Concern over screwing over the masses...nah, they all do it that, BA just a few months ago. |
Originally Posted by anderse
(Post 9895385)
Looks like the pilots is pissed off as well:
And this: Someone who knows the deal the pilots in Italy have been offered? |
It will be interesting to see how they dig themselves out of this mess.
The simplistic nature of their model mixed with such a toxic company culture will make it hard to recover from this. I hear they are already working on deferring deliveries, so maybe a severe cut to the program might get the show back on the road. The problem is lead times in getting experience, training trainers, and getting training done might push them a bit too far. I remember in 2005 when they were chartering in a lot of other airlines to recover the program, but the airline was much smaller back then. Around that time easyjet was offering golden hellos of 30,000 gbp for type rated pilots. Unfortunately for Ryanair it looks like Norwegian has soaked up most of the sub charter capacity available. Maybe the easy option out for them would be to buy Monarch and just have them fly large parts of the program until they can get on their feet again. One can't help but have a bit of schadenfruede for odreary, this has certainly been building for a long time. |
Airline management just hate paying pilots "too much". Twas ever thus, just read Ernest K. Gann's "Fear is the Hunter". He cites the management greed from the 1930's, forcing pilots to ply their trade wherever they could.
The chickens are finally coming home to roost. And hopefully no big crashes will force the issue. Employ enough pilots, having trained them to high standards, and pay them very well. That will result in higher fares, greater safety, and no nonsense like walk-outs, strikes, grounding of new aircraft, or flight cancellations. And people will pay a few quid more for their tickets. Airlines will pay their pilots salaries of a few thousand more. And all may then be well. I doubt it... |
People will always pay, even if more expensive.
Travelling by air is not for poor. Sound harsh, but to me, poor take a car not a plane. No need to pay 20 euros for a flight. even 200eu is cheap actually and anybody can afford it by saving some money. |
Why would you go from RYR to Norwegian? You are still a contractor. Money still isn't great. Benefits arent either. I mean, there must be better options right now?
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If they don't have a pilot shortage then we won't see new adverts for pilot recruitment. We won't see new incentives to entice people and we won't see excuses like "new airframes" as reasons for needing to recruit...
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And they won't be trawling Brazil for EU qualified citizens with B737 ratings.
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