PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Terms and Endearment (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment-38/)
-   -   SAS Ireland SAIL (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/590393-sas-ireland-sail.html)

MD80rookie 26th Oct 2017 19:09

From the inside;
no problems finding first officers but qualified captains is another story...

tubby linton 26th Oct 2017 20:01

Spoke to a rival recruitment agency based in the emerald isle who took great glee in describing the state SAIL are in due to the poor contract and and the mess the rival agency were making of the recruitment process.

ReallyAnnoyed 26th Oct 2017 21:30

Basic pay for a captain is about 60,000 pounds.

ATIS 26th Oct 2017 21:55

Just under £69K

Add flight pay, nightstop pay and overtime rate, after 60hrs, on top.

I'm pretty sure ex Monarch Luton and Gatwick pilots would consider it, especially senior boys who are already collecting a pension. 5 on 4 off probably being the draw factor.

ReallyAnnoyed 27th Oct 2017 00:14

The contract I have says 62,640 pounds basic pay. To add overtime in a calculation is misleading to put it mildly.

I sincerely doubt that the pay will increase, since the whole point of setting up the LHR base is to have lower costs than in Scandinavia. The mainline pay is already way below other European legacy carriers.

Thad Jarvis 27th Oct 2017 05:09

I'm sure plenty of Monarch guys have applied. Whether any of them turn up is another matter. They are all (quite rightly) applying for everything out there. There are 70 jobs in VS for them and dozens of command positions in Easyjet and Titan. The year 1 VS package is well above SAS command money. The Wow package beats this and it's still way below Easyjet. Never mind 54..do a year in Easyjet and go part-time. You'd still be quids in and with more time off.

tubby linton 27th Oct 2017 08:54

Thad, being allowed to go part time at LGW with Orange is a pipe dream. I had a mate who went in 2014 and despite being told he could go part time he never got it. He was so fed up with it that he retired.

HippoDK 27th Oct 2017 10:37

You have to add 10-12 overnights - if that's your fancy then fine... You'll also be going thru scandi land flying scandi routes - I don't think you'll be welcomed.

Still no AOC in the tax paradise - wonder if recruiting managers is troublesome?

Luckily Airbus is having problems delivering neo's (not) - this really would be sad if it's your last choice/chance considering brand value. But looking at the other "wetleases" SAS hires I guess it's not that important any more.

ATIS 27th Oct 2017 11:32

Really Annoyed, sorry my post wasn't clear. That £69K was basic.

Quite possibly like WOW, basic depends on your experience

5453 27th Oct 2017 21:49

Possibly correct in 2014. Not true now
Loads of people are going part time at LGW. All the people I have spoken to say you need to plan a year to get the part time to kick in, but you will get it under flexible working, probably a very suitable pattern.

MD man 31st Oct 2017 17:04

Tier 1, Tier2 = bigtime bluff!
This Irish AOC is just part of SAS long term management plan to try to concentrate to minimize costs without paying any considerations to safety and some other key values in aviation which we pilots take granted. Good examples can be found very near, sadly! After acquiring this ACMI partner _Cityjet__, it has been a total ghostride for employees , not to mention poor pilots!

At the moment Finnish NTSB is investigating a latest cityjet mishap which happened in EFTU. It is categorized as very Serious aviation safety incident which endangered 92 pax lives + crew of 4 .
And this was not the first of a kind fo cityjet alias SAS

AIAA 1st Nov 2017 12:17

75% Capt easyJet, full time Capt SAIL, year 1 full time Virgin FO: all about the same pay if you factor in pension, allowances etc etc.

Lammet 1st Nov 2017 16:33

Mainline SAS pilots don't like SAIL. At the same time we realise cost has to come down. Pay in Scandinavia is not high, but cost to the company is due to high taxation.
Therefore it is unlikely that pay & benefits will increase near term in SAIL. The rotation of 5/4 is probably a "must" in order to attrackt crew. In Scandinavia the 5/4 rotation is subject to heated discussions every bargaining session at SAS as it takes away scheduling flexibility in a network with large variations in production.
As I understand it, SAIL will have a flater production. Therefore the scheduling flexibility is not that important.

Klimax 1st Nov 2017 23:23

As with basically all other bright SAS ideas, this one will not last long. Anybody considering joining should have a good look at past, and current, SAS strategies and plans. Please do have an exit plan if for some bizare reason you go DOWN this route.

Spit15 6th Nov 2017 13:56

Klimax... I guess coming from UTOPIA... as you appear to be, the necessity to find a job which pays bills and keeps food on the kids plates and clothes on their backs, may to you seem a BIZARRE reason to "go DOWN" this route... however some of us live in more earthly dominions where needs have to be met, however unpalatable the methods may appear to those in a more fortunate position.

intercooler 6th Nov 2017 19:36

I think Klimax is trying to say that it's not a very good idea to adapt your entire life to a job with SAIL (moving your family, turning down other job opportunities etc.) It's a job, not a career... and may not last for that long. It's not like joining EZY or RYR where the company is opening up new bases every year and all employees consider new joiners at those bases as equals. You will not be welcomed by other SAS staff.

Spit15 6th Nov 2017 20:37

Hey Intercooler... Calm down...

Nobody said anything about uprooting families or adapting their lives to fit in with the new airline; rather merely a means to an end; namely a salary paying job to keep the bailiffs from the door. Sure a new airline based in LHR of all places is a risky venture in itself; but for those unfortunate people who don't yet have a better alternative, the SAIL option is a viable alternative to bridge a gap if nothing else. Spare a thought for the guys from Monarch or Air Berlin who have just been made redundant, approaching winter and Christmas. From someone who is safely employed in a legacy carrier, I would hate to think that my colleagues would behave with such acrimony if a similar venture were set up.

ATIS 6th Nov 2017 21:49

Anyone spouting rubbish like "you will not be welcome" need to remember that if faced with the same situation, the failure of the airline you've worked decades for, and another less favourable one opens up shop, you would most likely DO THE SAME THING especially if you have bills and a family to provide for. And that is the truth.

I've seen my previous joyful colleagues reduced to tears. Right now SAIL are their saviour, and they are under no illusion that the Terms are vastly inferior. But bills need to be paid.

Elephant and Castle 6th Nov 2017 22:35

Rubbish. There are hundreds of jobs out there. Many airlines are paying golden helloīs to captains. There are many ways of putting food on the table without lowering your pants. I cannot remember in the recent past a time where crew have been in such demand.

CargoOne 7th Nov 2017 04:17

Let me remind you - that was exactly 10 years ago, back in 2007. And it will be the same for the most of 2018. Like in 2008....

ATIS 7th Nov 2017 07:11

For DECs there are indeed lots of jobs out there. My LinkedIn account has been crazy busy since Monarch went down. (With Emirates emailing me the day before shutdown). But they are in Asia, Middle East and Turkey.

I'm from the northern half of UK, there are no Airbus jobs up here. I'm off to WOW as that's the closest I can get. I did apply to SAIL and EZY but no joy.

HippoDK 7th Nov 2017 09:24

I completely understand the need for having a job but do not kid yourself - every pilot hired in SAIL is taking a job from a scandi pilot. This is not a "new" base with an expanding route network, but a takeover of routes originating out of Scandinavia. The same goes for any base that might open - hence the not so open arms from mainline pilots.

AFA 7th Nov 2017 10:44

I was seconded to a large Scandanavian carrier in the early 2000's. Fantastic flying and really brilliant guys generally but holy crap they were militant union wise.
Even though we were on an exchange program where exactly the same number of Scandi pilots would come to fly for us in the UK we were subject to very close scrutiny by the line pilots and often questioned why we were there 'taking their flying'. If we were rostered what was considered a prime trip it would swiftly be withdrawn after some vocal and public complaints.

That said, if you need the job and its the only option then of course your family needs come first - however I have heard anecdotally that some Monarch guys fortunate enough to be offered both Virgin and SAIL are taking the SAIL job just to keep their fourth stripe.

If you've no alternative then fair enough but in my experience it won't be that pleasant for them passing through CPH or ARN.

HippoDK 7th Nov 2017 11:37

ATIS there are no airbus jobs in Scandinavia either and for every SAIL pilot there will be one less. I wish you the best of luck in the North Atlantic...

AFA there is no exchange of jobs here it's a one way road. SAIL is a means to an end - busting those "militant" unions and lowering T and C's, actually not unlike what's happening to most legacy carriers in Europe right now.

anderse 7th Nov 2017 13:28

Originally Posted by ATIS (Post 9949036)
I did apply to SAIL and EZY but no joy.

Did you get called for SAIL-interview or they never contacted you? I assume you are experienced on A32X?

Burpbot 7th Nov 2017 14:01

I always thought the Scandinavians were a friendly bunch! I’m sure the scandics received a warm welcome when they all came to work in the UK, just saying ��

CaptainProp 7th Nov 2017 14:31

Lots of jobs in Europe at the moment. Unfortunately more or less not a single one offering decent terms and conditions. Wow, SAIL, Small Planet, Primera, Eurowings, Germania, and the list goes on, ALL offering terrible contracts with terrible pay.

ATIS 7th Nov 2017 15:52

Anderse, I attended the CAE roadshow gave my details, but they never contacted me.

I hear that all courses up to Christmas are now full.

matt283 10th Nov 2017 12:27

Can anybody confirm if it is true that opening of AGP base is now being placed on hold?

R1ddle 26th Nov 2017 11:48

Taking a job is taking one away from a scandi pilot. I presume you're talking about one that's not employed yet? They aren't going to make any redundant because of SAIL.
I'm sick and tired of blinkered pilots moaning, the demise of Monarch taught me treasure what you have, don't be militant or you might find you have nothing. You should be pleased Monarch people have found jobs

MD80rookie 26th Nov 2017 18:52

Are you sure about this, buddy?

If you can guarantee that my career prospects as a SAS pilot is unaffected by SAIL I would believe what you say.

Blinkered pilots? I have been made redundant and lost my job in a bankruptcy, I am very sorry for Monarch pilots but should I show them any sympathy and let them steal my job?

matt283 1st Dec 2017 10:42

With a bit of delay they have 1st a/c:


172_driver 1st Dec 2017 13:05

It says it belongs to Scandinavian Airlnes (SAS).

Even management agrees, thatís not the case ;)

tprop 3rd Dec 2017 06:50

Very Well.
SAIL was created for the sole purpose of undermining the unions and T&Cs of employees in Scandiland. The routes you will be flying are not new or part of any kind of expansion. They are the very same ones SAS has been flying for decades. You may be able to pay your bills now, but you are directly contributing to someone else not being able to. Of course that someone is far away on the other side of the North Sea, so not your problem.
But rest assured you will be considered barely half a notch above a :mad: by those who up until now have been flying those very same planes on those very same routes.

Race to the bottom, every man for himself. Itīs like we canīt wait to get there.

ProfessorSnape 5th Dec 2017 23:49

Yes great idea, I'll pass that around us ex-monarch lot that no one should join as we might make someone not be able to pay bills in the future. So in the meantime we'll live on the poverty line with no income so you can pocket your fat SAS pension. Get real, our airline went bankrupt and tore lives apart with it. Do you think any of us actually want to fly for SAS Ireland? No. But it sure beats sitting at home worrying about how the mortgage will be paid and how food can be put on the table for children.

Get real. (And no I'm not joining myself)

I honestly can't believe some of the stuff I read on here sometimes

LHS320 6th Dec 2017 05:11

I’m not joining either, nor am I going to Thomas Cook belarics! I’m lucky to have a position now, and no I didn’t get an interview with VS.

It’s not about a race to the bottom it’s about being able to operate an airline once we exit the EU, That’s the bean counters view, imho.
Whoever takes the opportunities the best of British. Your going to need it because the industry has nose dived because, like these adverse comments your own colleagues don’t stand together and see the bigger picture.

HippoDK 6th Dec 2017 08:14

Well management is getting what they want - us throwing mud amongst ourselves and the bean counters are filled with joy looking at their spreadsheets and wondering if they can make us work for even less.

I do wonder however if this outfit will ever become airborne - rumor has it that head of operations just quit and left for Norwegian - funny :mad:.

A319 6th Dec 2017 09:05

Iím sure EZY and VS have already swept up the most qualified pilots from Monarch and these are the leftovers along with the Libyan first officers currently training. Survival of the fittest...

McBruce 6th Dec 2017 09:30

Itís you whose allowing the degredation of your own terms, not someone far far away.

Youre an organised work force do something about it before itís too late.

172_driver 6th Dec 2017 13:45

There isn’t much mainline pilots can do about this I am afraid. We can somewhat control our own situation, but we don’t run the company. If they want to set up a separate entity, albeit in the same colors, we’re short of leverage.

I don’t blame the Monarch, Air Berlin or Wizzair pilots for joining this gig. They try to self-maximize. Anyone who doesn’t is a hypocrat. I do however question the morals of the management who I wonder got their university degree from where? Put their kids through schools paid by who? Now they’re going to finance Ireland corrupted aviation authority and tax system, on routes previously flown by Scandinavian crew to/from Scandinavia.

Nope, can’t say I am happy about it. Enjoy the Stockholm layovers.

All times are GMT. The time now is 14:27.

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.