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Originally Posted by Airline_pilot26
(Post 10310221)
Not always, sometimes what you read is the real picture of one company.... and if a lot people write similar opinions.... maybe something is true |
Is there anyone here who actually flies for SAIL as an FO?
;) |
Originally Posted by KyleRB
(Post 10310283)
Possibly true but also posts often by a handful of jaded individuals or those with a personal agenda have it easy these days on social media. They hide behind anonymity and make all sorts of allegations and statements without taking personal responsibility for their veracity. By that I mean have the balls to put your real name at the end of the post and stand by your comments and don’t be like all the other keyboard warriors! |
Navetta is absolutely right with racism. I was in their screenig, first fact: TM smiled when he mentioned how many pilots were failed after OCC course, he stated that they did good in failing many guys. second fact: Monarch Pilots club. I absolutely hate this kind of attitude and told them during my interview, that its a monarch club and not fitting to me. Got no invitation to sim, but passed two other screenings with decent operators. Brexit, thats the way. Sorry for all the nice and good U.K. guys, that for sure also exist, but this cpy, no thanks!
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FACT. Monarch guys are now in the minority. Yes at the beginning, many were hired after the airline went bust. SAIL just didn’t have enough pilots due to the poor conditions. But many of these Monarch guys have moved on. FACT. English guys are in the minority. Most are European. (Maybe for this winter, this will be reveresed as Air Tanker pilots have been seconded to SAIL, not enough work at Air Tanker this winter) FACT. Those who have failed OCC did so because of their performance, not because of where they’re from. The racism card is being played by a disgruntled employee who failed a command course (so I’ve heard 2nd hand) Head of Training are Monarch guys, and they just want to maintain a high standard. How dare they..... Good luck to all that apply. |
I think ATIS is one of the few who provide real information |
I keep my ear close to the ground as I am hoping to return to UK in 2yrs time. Its the disorganisation on CAEs part that has caused a lot of the problems. The pay was late a couple of months ago, and CAE state it won't happen again. CAE included compensation of £125 to each crew member. Its not all bad news. I hear that SAIL received the highest rating possible by SAS auditors. May they continue to operate to the highest standards. |
Originally Posted by ATIS
(Post 10316702)
FACT. Monarch guys are now in the minority. Yes at the beginning, many were hired after the airline went bust. SAIL just didn’t have enough pilots due to the poor conditions. But many of these Monarch guys have moved on. FACT. English guys are in the minority. Most are European. (Maybe for this winter, this will be reveresed as Air Tanker pilots have been seconded to SAIL, not enough work at Air Tanker this winter) FACT. Those who have failed OCC did so because of their performance, not because of where they’re from. The racism card is being played by a disgruntled employee who failed a command course (so I’ve heard 2nd hand) Head of Training are Monarch guys, and they just want to maintain a high standard. How dare they..... Good luck to all that apply. The managers give CAE a really good economical income to follow train a lot pilots. How I know appears that only all ex Monarch guys have standards and never have any problem how this is possible? How many Monarch pilots fail the recruitment? If you don’t like someone you can build and show everything (low standards, bad attitude...) the picture that this company give isn’t high standards, but bad “punish policy”. As I know all examines and instructors are ex Monarch except one or two... I am SFI/SFE -TRI/TRE and it is easy let people fail if you want. Talk of standard it is nice, but did you really follow the “real” standards???? Or something that is customised for a company or from someone? The problems are not connected only with the Monarch guys (they try to build a small copy of the previous company) or with (high standards), but is a bad organisation and bad work environment for sure. ATIS talk about something connected with racism and prove that this in some way happen and anyway be offensive for someone... Anyway as how I know from other ex SASI pilots, most resigns don’t be fired by the company... |
I must say that when I was there I heard about these racism allegations. It was coming from some isolated individuals, the same idiots you will find in every airline. I did my sim training with the former Monarch head of training (who left SASI now) and a Monarch TRE and they both were true gentlemen.
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ATIS you’re facts are interesting, but the fact of really high percentuale of pilots and CC resign from SASI it’s not connected with the standards, but with other factors. In Lufthansa, in BA or in EasyJet they have also high standards, but the % of people that resign is really low. The environment of work like the quality of life are fondamental, if you don’t give that, yout must try to give something different, like Chinese companies, big salaries. Is a fact that SASI doesn’t give any of those it is obvious that people join the company and after short time resign. |
Originally Posted by Navetta
(Post 10317095)
ATIS you’re fact are interesting, but the fact of really high percentuale of pilots and CC resign from SASI it’s not connected with the standards, but with other factors. In Lufthansa, in BA in EasyJet they have also high standards, but the % of people that resign are low. The environment of work like the quality of life are fondamental, if you don’t give that, yout must try to give something different, like Chinese companies, big salaries. Is a fact that SASI doesn’t give any of those it is obvious that people join the company and after short time resign. |
Originally Posted by USERNAME_
(Post 10317100)
BA have one of the highest turnovers of CC, hence the new starter courses 3/4 times a month.
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Originally Posted by Navetta
(Post 10316468)
Interesting you too don't put your name, anyway I know different pilots in SASI and all are unhappy and very upset by the conditions of rostering, salary and management..... in the last 2 weeks 3 captains and about 5 FO left the company... in a small company where really a lot people follow to resign is something wrong for sure!!!! Some rumours talk also about racism (send in email to the employees) and bad attitude reserved to foreign people from some "superior" pilots...
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I was interested to join this company, but as I have 2 friends that resign from SASI (obviously not happy for all reasons that I wrote) and others that still inside (also unhappy for the bad attitude of the CAE Managment and some colleagues), anyway Malaga base appear much better place where work (but is totally full) LHR is bad work environment for sure. As I have good connections in SASI, for the reason that at the moment I work in Emirates I decided to stay away from this company, the guy that you talk about is a FO that left Qatar airways and I suppose he have quite good standards. That guy “fail” his interview for the command not for lack of skills, but because have different frictions with someone, as he have good standards still be there also if he is under pressure every day, he isn’t white and as you can understand don’t accept the “racist” humor. It is strange that also an Italian captain that applied to be instructor after a couple of week resign (and the training manager use to say in the company that for his strong Italian accent can’t be part of the training team)... but this isn’t racism... I you have good connections for sure you know that several people resigned and soon more will resign also. CAE already planned multiple OCC, maybe is a good way for make money as someone wrote in other post... |
Its very unprofessional to misuse the power as an TRI/TRI / Managementpilot. I am myself TRI, exTRE and know very well, that the best pilot with the best standard can be failed, I not believe these "crap" of below SASI standart be ex Monarch club aviatiors, we are all human and able to perform in the right environment - thes guys are the last I can accept, very poor !! Its a shame !! Stay away from them!
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Good evening everyone, I resigned shot time ago from SAS Ireland because I recover a better job. :) What is written inside this post about environment, pilots that follow to resign, kingdom of some Monarch, racism and bad CAE management: are real and really difficult to accept My salary most of the time was wrong, always for a lot less money and the time that we received the extra money was because the salary arrived really late and also really wrong. I flew with all possible pilots, all appear polite really gentlemen and nice, but it’s just a facade, are always ready to f*** you, the high “standards” is a big fake (usually they have a lot not written SOP that you have to follow). If you comment that on the FCOM is different the usually answer is (in Monarch was like that and we will change OM and FCOM soon because are made for Aer Lingus. Must follow SOP of some guys and not OM and FCOM if this is definition of high standards?????? This company is an ACMI e you don’t have anything with SAS, the uniform is SAS but no friezes, only a fake wing CAE for the jacket impossible be in one company that the main SAS hate and passengers don’t recognise and also don’t like. To be honest I always like to be in contact with all pilots from any nations, but for the first time I’m really happy to resign and I really feel good. Crazy, bizarre environment, for me a small company must be a family no a place that you hate, 90% of the pilots are ready to resign 10% are the remaining Monarch pilots..... :D :) |
Without entering into what may or may not be true, which I honestly believe may be little, your style betrays you ... |
I was considering taking a flight with SAIL, I just cancelled!
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp
(Post 10320257)
I was considering taking a flight with SAIL, I just cancelled!
What is fairly clear is that there are some seriously jaded ex employees on this thread! |
Ha ha, creating a new profile to throw us off the scent.
Are you one of the recently booted out Captains with laughable standards? I hope not, because the stories I’ve heard have been eye watering. Those Captains should be ashamed of themselves. They do not deserve 4 stripes. Good luck in your new job. |
From what I can see there is a lot of frustration in LHR and how about working environment in AGP?
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I think Smooth Airperator has hit the nail on the head! As a former Monarch FO who joined Primera and very recently joined SAIL I recognise a lot of what he says. At Primera there were plenty of cultural issues, miscommunication and misunderstandings but mostly colleagues got on together and actually produced a reasonably good working environment. Standards at Primera were either satisfactory or much better but a few of my colleagues were not up to the task. They passed the joke of a selection via Skype and a few online tests only then to be failed in the sim on OCC or on a line check. I suspect dealing with cultural challenges at SAIL and a better recruitment process would help. The trainers I knew at Monarch were almost exclusively friendly and very able instructors. They had high standards but were practical as well. They were always fair and I don’t expect that has changed. However, if you are a charlatan, you will be found out! |
I was considering taking a flight with SAIL, I just cancelled! Sounds like a sour mix of cultures without a firm hand (such as in Ryanair) to steer people right. If noticed by the majority customers, I don't know. Tbh, my one and only SAIL flight was pleasant. Nice crew, cabin and flight deck. I still don't like the way they're dumping our own fair trade in Scandi though. |
Salary
After my application, I received the contractual terms and the possible average monthly salary for Captain position is: Basic salary 6,842 £ + Overnight (10 nights) 510 £ + Block hours (60 hours) 1,620 £ Total: 8,972 £ gross + Benefits After tax doesn’t look really high to live in the London area. Someone knows what the benefits are? I asked several times, but I haven’t received an answer. |
Pension and partially subsidised private healthcare as well. 5/4 roster. New A320NEOs and SAS staff travel after 6 months. Operating out of LHR can be a pain but the newly rebuilt T2 is very nice indeed. |
Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator
(Post 10320530)
Italians, French and Spaniards operate in more of a 'man and boy' style (often dictating and not truly appreciating the value of junior colleagues - sorry it's true) and are more by the book. A good thing and bad thing in that they seldom think outside the box. It's this one thing that is often the source of conflict. The English style is not as 'by the book' but can often be more practical (IMHO having flown at 5 Airbus operators over the world).
Working currently in Uk and been with 3 differents operator before (not Uk), Uk is for me the far more about strict SOP, by the book and no manual flight, after I agree the CRM was usually the best with less dictator captain. Now I understand all those cultural difference not easy if people are not use to it and little bit open about the world. |
These useless pilots with poor standards didn't just jump in a SASI airplane and fail their training. They've been interviewed, went trough a simulator screening done by CAE who is running SASI. So who's to blame? CAE who, in this case ,is not able to select pilots for their own airline, or the training department being unfair to some pilots who then are not that useless?
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SAIL LHR
Reading the last two pages is hilarious....
For anyone considering joining: Things have vastly improved. Hotels are now industry standard and T&C's are now pretty good. Still the only real problem is CAE who learn very slowly, but to be fair, every company has its managers that cause problems. Certainly in LHR the union is doing a good job of ensuring they abide by UK law - a major clause included in the contract. Standards? Yes standards expected are high, but more than that, much more than that - you attitude is expected to be professional and positive. If you suggest that you are going to ignore SOP's you will find yourself some grief. Brits vs Europeans? I can only express a view from the Brits side - yes many of us have not been used to flying with so many europeans, but really it only means OUR communication needs to be better and yes that takes effort - but can only serve to improve our stds as pilots. SOP's are SOP's if you don't like a company's SOP's don't join, we all know BA has innovative SOP's but i doubt anyone would join and then actively say they won't follow them. So pay very little attention to those vehemently moaning - it's not perfect, but I'd recommend it Good luck to all |
Many thanks for the information, anyway today I received the official benefits list from CAE: - roster 5/4 with flexible roster pattern of 6/3 A Flexible Roster pattern option may be made available on which in principle you will be rostered on the basis of six (6) consecutive duty periods on-duty followed by an off-duty period. The off-duty period shall normally be a period of three consecutive 24 hour periods beginning when you are released from duty after the sixth consecutive duty (“the Flexible Roster Pattern”). The Flexible Roster Pattern will be based on the Standard Roster Pattern however there will be a sixth duty where there would otherwise be a day off. - Insurance At the Company's expense, the Company will provide you with Personal Accident insurance in accordance with the detailed policy terms and conditions which are available on request. You may wish to take out additional insurances in accordance with your own personal requirements. The Company will provide you with access to medical insurance at your own expense and responsibility. This insurance is offered at Company rates. The Company will provide you with a monthly allowance of £55.00 if you choose to avail of towards personal medical insurance. This allowance must be put toward personal medical insurance Payment for this allowance will be made through expenses procedure detailed in Company Polices and procedure where receipts are submitted. - LOL The Company will provide you with an annual allowance of GBP£ 1,500 to put towards Loss of Licence (“LOL”) insurance. This allowance must be put toward LOL insurance and you may be asked to provide evidence of such insurance. You are entitled to avail of the Company's rates if LOL insurance is arranged through the Company. - Pension 5% of basic pay around 100 £ - Travel ID tickets after 6 months limited on SAS Ireland network |
Quick reply to previous post - staff travel limited to SAS network...
Plus email recently came out saying they are negotiating with other airlines which will be available shortly |
Originally Posted by Airbus.driver.
(Post 10324393)
- roster 5/4 with flexible roster pattern of 6/3 A Flexible Roster pattern option may be made available on which in principle you will be rostered on the basis of six (6) consecutive duty periods on-duty followed by an off-duty period. So its basically 6:3 then, with occasional 5:4? Or does the employee have the option to reject the "flexible" option? Seems disingenuous to say 5:4, and then to say, oh by the way, we've got flexible rosters.... we all know where this leads :( |
Originally Posted by highfive
(Post 10324980)
So its basically 6:3 then, with occasional 5:4? Or does the employee have the option to reject the "flexible" option?
Seems disingenuous to say 5:4, and then to say, oh by the way, we've got flexible rosters.... we all know where this leads :( |
I was told in AGP, that you would only consume the HOL over the workdays. To get 4+5+4 you just need to get rid of the inner 5. Do this 4x a year... true? |
It is a 5/4 pattern. However for 3 weeks in 3 summer months they can roster you 6/3 but have to give you day off payment. So to be clear - absolutely 5/4 apart from 3 weeks in summer
hope that helps |
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 10325250)
I was told in AGP, that you would only consume the HOL over the workdays. To get 4+5+4 you just need to get rid of the inner 5. Do this 4x a year... true? so basically 13 days off 4 times a yr with 2 days leave left over - LHR contract AGP i believe get 30 days leave |
From a friend of mine who is union rep for SAS, this was his own words: If this company is goes under (hopefully) the pilots are out on their own.
The company is wholly independent from SAS. and from what I have heard due to crewing problems, they have had to use SAS Scandinavia to replace many of the flights to avoid cancellations. The company is owned by SAS, but has no direct connection to SAS itself, and the SAS Scandinavia hopes and wants it to fail, and to be honest it will be a tragedy if it does survive, as it could mean the end for proper companies like SAS, instead all companies will just be Irish importers with contract pilots, and that is the tragedy we all want to avoid. For me it seems like creative solution of "union" busting airline, so next time SAS pilots put their management under fire, SAS can turn around and use SAIL to bust those demanding crews from SAS. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10325805)
From a friend of mine who is union rep for SAS, this was his own words: If this company is goes under (hopefully) the pilots are out on their own.
The company is wholly independent from SAS. and from what I have heard due to crewing problems, they have had to use SAS Scandinavia to replace many of the flights to avoid cancellations. The company is owned by SAS, but has no direct connection to SAS itself, and the SAS Scandinavia hopes and wants it to fail, and to be honest it will be a tragedy if it does survive, as it could mean the end for proper companies like SAS, instead all companies will just be Irish importers with contract pilots, and that is the tragedy we all want to avoid. For me it seems like creative solution of "union" busting airline, so next time SAS pilots put their management under fire, SAS can turn around and use SAIL to bust those demanding crews from SAS. |
Originally Posted by wheelbarrow
(Post 10325829)
Tell your friend "the union rep" not to be so hopeful. sas won't be going under any mat in Denmark nor will Sail under any mat in Spain. He's a fabulous imagination. perhaps he should focus on his own performance rather than dreaming .................................
https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...e-fly-i-sommer https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...den-av-kollaps Use Google translate, and you will discover a lot of interesting news. SAS Scandinavia is going fairly good at the moment, the same can't be said about SAIL. From the press it seems to be a disaster waiting to happen, even say it's worse than Ryanair, that takes some making. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10325805)
From a friend of mine who is union rep for SAS, this was his own words: If this company is goes under (hopefully) the pilots are out on their own.
The company is wholly independent from SAS. and from what I have heard due to crewing problems, they have had to use SAS Scandinavia to replace many of the flights to avoid cancellations. The company is owned by SAS, but has no direct connection to SAS itself, and the SAS Scandinavia hopes and wants it to fail, and to be honest it will be a tragedy if it does survive, as it could mean the end for proper companies like SAS, instead all companies will just be Irish importers with contract pilots, and that is the tragedy we all want to avoid. For me it seems like creative solution of "union" busting airline, so next time SAS pilots put their management under fire, SAS can turn around and use SAIL to bust those demanding crews from SAS. What a lovely post, there are some truly inspiring people about! Wishing people get made redundant huh? What a wonderful human being you are! We have had SAS mainline management on jumpseats, they are really happy with SAS Ireland, maybe not so much with the handling company. it has been expressed to us if this doesn't work, mainline is in trouble.... so wish away Hahaha |
Originally Posted by R1ddle
(Post 10325897)
What a lovely post, there are some truely inspiring people about! Wishing people get made redundant huh? What a wonderful human being you are!
If you are working for SAIL you are not exactly part of an innovative upstart trailblazing new and different ways of doing things. Nor are you an independent competitor. You are flying mainline planes on mainline routes, aren´t you? And if you ignore the PR people and fancy management speeches and instead read the fine print in the annual reports you will notice SAIL isn´t exactly contributing to the bottom line. This whole discussion about T&Cs and how they are/will be/might be improving is a bit of a joke. The only reason SAIL was created is to pressure the mainline crews into accepting lower T&Cs. Now if you can add 2 and 2 together you might see that if management succeeds in this - lowering pay and pensions for mainline crews, who are already at the low end in Europe - then they obviously can´t raise the same for SAIL crews a whole lot. That would defeat the purpose. Au contraire, management would turn around and use those very lowered T&Cs against SAIL crews. And should management not succeed, well then there is no point in having SAIL and it will very quickly go the way of all the other SAS non-main airline experiments. You are pawns in a dirty game. Do you let yourself get played? |
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