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-   -   SAS Ireland SAIL (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/590393-sas-ireland-sail.html)

semmern 11th Aug 2017 12:58

Has anyone seen any EI-registered A320s in SAS colours anywhere in the UK lately?

Andrew7 11th Aug 2017 15:53

Semmern You stated there was a delay and heard it from a colleague

MD man 17th Aug 2017 19:36

SAS will probably move CRJ-900 operation under Irish OAC , since CITYJET has proven to be totally an flying club with slave deals to employees..

MD80rookie 18th Aug 2017 12:00

No AOC yet, according to IAA webpage.

CaptainProp 18th Aug 2017 12:12


SAS will probably move CRJ-900 operation under Irish OAC , since CITYJET has proven to be totally an flying club with slave deals to employees..
And SAS is doing much better with their Irish AOC terms and conditions?

EGKK. 21st Sep 2017 09:10

Any Rosters out yet? I'd like to see the level of work out of LHR.

Is it just another Max duty/Min rest approach Or is it the holy grail of jobs in the UK.

november.sierra 21st Sep 2017 11:05

This whole operation doesn't seem to have been given any proper thought, it seems more like 'well Norwegian have an Irish AOC, so we should do the same'... I struggle to see how there are any cost savings to be had operating from LHR, one of the most expensive and slot constrained airports in Europe.

As was rightly pointed out, the current deals on offer for SAS new hires, both pilots and cabin crew, are a far cry of what was once on offer, and are substantially below what is on offer at Norwegian, and we're talking SAS Scandinavia here. People based in LHR will not work for peanuts either, let alone leave secure employment elsewhere An organisation like SAS seems to be simply incapable of becoming a profitable entity in its current structure, and is being very naive thinking that an Irish AOC and basing staff outside of Scandinavia will be a solution to all their woes.

For those that don't remember, there are several such failed ventures in the history of SAS, whether we're now talking about Snowflake, for those that remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(airline) or Blue1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue1 or Spanair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanair , and I wouldn't be surprised if SAS Ireland might meet a similar fate once the beancounters realise that there are no savings to be had, drawing the same conclusion as with the other projects.

I would tread carefully...

linmar 21st Sep 2017 19:31


Originally Posted by november.sierra (Post 9899112)
I would tread carefully...

Fully agree. The Scandinavian Ireland venture is nothing more than something cooked up by senior management to hold against the pilots in Scandinavia. "Reduce your cost... or else"

The pilot cost in SAS is less than 6% of the total cost base. Given the number of pilots that will retire over the next 10 years, being replaced by new hires at a lower cost, that number will decrease substantially without any influence from SAIL. The current T&C's in SAS is well below most competitors, Ryanair being the exemption, and the only reason SAS are able to attract experienced pilots is the permanent employment with the airline, a seniority system in place with long haul possibilities and union representation.

The beancounters seem to think that the same pilots applying to SAS would also jump at any chance to join SAIL, regardless if all other carriers in the UK offer a better package.

Novaxeth 30th Sep 2017 16:18

...any news about SAIL?
 
Everything is very quiet around this, and CAE/PARC are constantly updating their recruiting ads. Is everything in place and will SAIL be good to go in November?

semmern 30th Sep 2017 17:17

Latest is one plane in December.

Spit15 30th Sep 2017 18:38

Last i heard 2 days ago was a 6 week delay in first acft delivery

Spit15 30th Sep 2017 18:40

Can anyone confirm whether they have actually got the AOC? Or still a work in progress?

MD80rookie 30th Sep 2017 18:47

According to IAA website no AOC yet.

They advertised for a NP Crew Training just a few days ago.

Quite sure that this will be another of SAS failed projects...

A319 30th Sep 2017 19:11

Aircraft lined up? They have yet to receive the 1st. The last NEO is going to SAS mainline and only then will the SAIL aircraft start to arrive...

Spit15 30th Sep 2017 21:05

Having planes in livery means nothing. Jetstar HK had 9 brand new A320's sitting on the ramp in TLS all ready to go... but none ever flew for them. No AOC.

Spit15 30th Sep 2017 21:07

The company folded without ever operating a single flight.

matt283 5th Oct 2017 15:54

Cabin crew having trainings in november, no a/c registered in Ireland for sas yet, seems like at least a monthly delay in start up of the new operation...

semmern 5th Oct 2017 17:58

One plane in December now also confirmed...again. We'll see...

semmern 12th Oct 2017 09:57

Start-up now postponed indefinitely.

nrn 12th Oct 2017 12:33

Source please?

The Mixmaster 12th Oct 2017 12:49

Legal to advertise for staff for a subsidiary with no AOC in place?

semmern 12th Oct 2017 17:24


Originally Posted by nrn (Post 9922628)
Source please?

SAS udsætter opstart af Heathrow-base - CHECK-IN.dk

MD80rookie 12th Oct 2017 18:02

Positions with SAS Ireland
 
Below is a list with positions, advertised by CAE/Parc, for SAS Ireland Ltd (SAIL):

Senior Training Support Coordinator
Scandinavian Language speaking experienced Cabin Crew
Experienced Cabin Crew
Experienced Senior Cabin Crew
A320 Captains
A320 First Officers
A320 TRE/TRI
Manager Crew Training (Nominated Postholder)
Flight Operations Controller
Operations Compliance Auditor

Quite many positions still open for a company that was planned to start ops as of winter timetable end of october? Yes... :D

Internally, delayed delivery from Airbus is to blame.

Mr Angry from Purley 12th Oct 2017 18:44

Good opportunity for ex Monarch Staff

HippoDK 12th Oct 2017 19:44

Opportunity yes - good no. Have you seen the T & C's ?

We are talking a (small) step up from small planet p2fly.

tubby linton 12th Oct 2017 19:49

I saw a recruitment event for cabincrew scheduled for tomorrow at Heathrow.

JetpoweredMigrantWkr 12th Oct 2017 20:56

Welcome to the neighborhood!
We all have AOCs in Ireland!

Fuel Crossfeed 24th Oct 2017 11:27


Originally Posted by HippoDK (Post 9923072)
Opportunity yes - good no. Have you seen the T & C's ?

We are talking a (small) step up from small planet p2fly.

Still better than no job as ex Monarch employees with mortgages, bills to pay and family mouths to feed will no doubt be thinking.

premiere 24th Oct 2017 14:34

Well......this ex Monarch crew just told them where to stick their T & Cs !

semmern 24th Oct 2017 18:09

Good on you!

Sincerely,
All mainline SAS pilots!

FlightDetent 24th Oct 2017 18:35

Is it not just a scarecrow? I mean to force SAS group pilots to "open their minds"? It doesn not sound a viable plan to launch from LHR at winter's onset. Plus, the financial condtions alone seem to preclude any existence of a dedicated, well performing and loyal pilot pool.

semmern 24th Oct 2017 18:36

In that case, it is a bloated, expensive scarecrow.

flyer4life 25th Oct 2017 08:59


Originally Posted by premiere (Post 9935236)
Well......this ex Monarch crew just told them where to stick their T & Cs !

Can someone please detail the package on offer for line captains? I'd like to confirm my general despondency with the industry 😖

matt283 25th Oct 2017 11:28

can't find pdf with conditions on my laptop, but ask CAE Parc Aviation, they will send you that file ;)


Another question - anybody actually know when they will start operations??

Thad Jarvis 25th Oct 2017 19:12

I recall line Capt as around £6500 per month. No pension. Can probably make more driving a Uber.. better tax breaks anyway.

ATIS 25th Oct 2017 19:22

Didn't Norwegian start in the U.K. with abysmal T & Cs. They now have a pension and LOL.

With pilot and cabin crew union agreements signed I would hope once things have settled down, improvements could hopefully be negotiated. Good luck all.

Spit15 25th Oct 2017 19:53

If it becomes a success story, things will clearly have to change w.r.t T's & C's as people will vote with their feet for better paying jobs; but in the mean time it will suit a fair few who are, through bad luck and circumstance, currently unemployed. Joining is optional, but my guess is that remaining will be conditional, for those who are joining to bridge a gap. There are lots of better options around... if geography is not a factor; and as we all know in this industry, it is far better to apply for a new role from a position of strength (i.e presently employed).

CSman 25th Oct 2017 20:11

Reminds me when I became a Klingon, we Cambrian guys had that title for many years in Ba,the only difference being that we were on the same salaries as the main line guys, who knows what will happen in the future depends how many walk after two years ,also became one of the few.

tubby linton 25th Oct 2017 21:50

Parc are quoting £8,378 a month all in. They have to provide a pension as it is UK based but it is only the state minimum level of contribution.

flyer4life 26th Oct 2017 09:49

So not great indeed, around 15% less than a UK orange base without considering pension, LOL, sick pay. I guess we're talking 25% less if you fund all the extra benefits yourself. 5/4 roster should be good though.

SAS will get away with it for now due to the unfortunate demise of Monarch. Good luck to those joining for improving the package over time.


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