Another thing is that once SAIL malaga base will be open the pay deal and roster will be even worse than uk...

6/3 roster with overnights in scandinavia operating SAS routes and seems like unions are not doing anything about it...

Haha....Ok, only thing is its NOT double pay. I rest my case.

CP

Just the fact that BIT offers a higher salary for flying a Q400 in a country with low living expenses, than flying an Airbus out of London.

It’s a bit sad where SAS has transformed into during the past years.

With multi-union system in Scandinavia failing to negotiate with the company the results are obvious. All the young guys sold out by older colleagues, B-scales created, even more subcontractors with social dumping etc.

I think we can all agree that what happened wasn’t that pilots or company hated each others even tho it had something to do with it, but the fact that both parties failed miserably to change when everything changed around them. Now they are desperately trying to hold on what they have or reach something they would like to have.

When they were supposed to work together and change things back to sustainable they continued arguing even more. Aviation industry evolved, SAS didn’t.

As I said earlier, it’s really sad and hopefully other companies and unions can learn something from this. As long as this continue SAS will have the cheapest pilots in Europe.

No GScapture, we can´t agree on that!

The company demanded a B-scale in the period of some 10 years when SAS didn´t hire any new pilots. The unions were forced to accept it, but when new pilots started being hired again, the unions managed to get rid of the B-scale. This was done at the expence of the older guys.
So much for selling out younger guys, right!

The company has been union busting for years and years, and the unions have been played out against each other. They have been more or less power less and had no way of stopping SAIL, etc, etc.

The pay scheme I have seen includes bonus and dividend, whereby the gross salary for captains reach +9000 euros.

I do not say, that Air Baltic is perfect, but they react and adapt, when they have to.

The idea of SAS Ireland is out of sync. They could have gotten away with it five years ago, but now every company is screaming for pilots. Primarily Easyjet will absorb any good vacant Airbuspilot in Europe.

So where are you going then?

Anyone chosing sail over easyjet should have their medical revoked, end of story.

Understood Flygare, then I’ve must got wrong information regarding that. Sorry about that.

I’ve heard similar stories about the company playing with unions and trying to bust them. Regardless what’s going on the company structure and business strategy must been a bit off if they came down to this level that it is absolutely necessary to outsource everything, undermine everything. Not a lot “Scandinavian equality” in there. Or then it is just extremely badly run company. But that’s a whole different story and this topic is about SAIL.

-GS-

So after 16 pages on Pprune and three months of operations what's the overall assessment of this new "low cost" carrier operating on behalf of SAS. It sounds mixed to say the very least and more like a Ryanair set up than anything resembling SAS mainline

New chairman of the board of SAS just got a 61% increase in financial compensation '-to restore pre-2012 levels'

Good way of leading the way forward :rolleyes:

Aer Lingus offers 2000€ more in basic salary for FO's.

Malaga base postponed indefinitely.

5 brand new Neo's arrived. They fly on average 9 sectors per day. 1,8 sector per aircraft per day is the SAS way of optimizing things.

:ok:

Malaga start date has been confirmed.

Aircraft flying considerably more sectors per day than you state. A quick click here will prove that! (Looks like 5 sectors a day - each!) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-sie

Where are you getting your rubbish from? Facebook?

Does anyone know anything about contract length on SAIL AGP base? I am just curious about what the guys there will be doing during the winter as SAS has verry few flights to mainland Spain in the snowy season.

BR

No worries, in the winter you'll be sent to Scandinavia to operate flights on SAS network, expect to stay in hotels in CPH, ARN and OSL.

I see that Captains for the AGP base are offered a 6/3 schedule where as F/O's are offered a 5/4 rotation.

Social contributions
 

Is there anybody here who can shed some light on social contributions if you live and work in Spain? I've been looking at the contract in Malaga and was just wondering if Parc is paying any social contributions as employer because if not, as far as I know, you need to set up your own business and pay a lot. A breakdown would be very much appreciated.

In Spain CAE/PARC are responsible to deduct both your social contributions and income tax at source:

“For employed persons, their contributions are withheld from their pay, and transferred to the General Social Security Revenue Office by their employer together with his own contributions”

Employers pay the majority of the contribution, 23.6%, you pay 4.7% (figures may have increased, but same ratio).

Here is a guide for your/family social benefits in Spain – Link:

http://ec.europa.eu/employment_socia...20Spain_en.pdf

Income tax is graduated with the highest rate on earnings above 65K at 45% - Link:

Spanish tax rates and allowances for 2018.

You may want to review the Spanish Beckham’s Law (no joke):

“The Special Displaced Workers Regime, the original name of the Beckham Act, was approved in 2004 in Spain with the aim of boosting the national economy by attracting executives and qualified personnel from abroad. The incentive was that, under that regime, the displaced workers who changed their tax residence to Spain would have a tax reduction in their Spanish Income tax (IRPF). Specifically, it allowed them to be taxed as non-residents at the general rate of 24% instead of 43% [now 45%]” - Link:

Beckham Law: Can I Take Advantage of It? (UPDATED IN 2017)

And of course, the mandatory; didn’t you see this coming?
The shameful attack on the terms and conditions of the once envied Scandinavian work/life balance started in 2012, the time when a certain core group of pilots in Norway naively made a precarious agreement with a certain smiling rock-ape to use outsourced pilots at a new base in Finland.

Promises were made the airline would hire all the outsourced pilots when the base became profitable. More bases opened using more outsourced pilots and more false promises made. To the delight of the airline, unions in each country formed separate alliances between outsourced pilots and their service provider employer. Flights increased to/from the Norway hub.

A day of infamy arrived when the original core group of pilots became outsourced pilots themselves. Today they fight a legal battle to restore their former airline employee status and associated employee rights. It’s unfortunate they lacked foresight and fortitude in 2012.

History has shown people are slow to act whenever a regime or megalomaniac seeks to undermine the lives of a particular group, whether directly by force or perhaps disguised as an innovative labour model. We usually stand idly by until irrevocable harm is done, acting at the very last moment. The airline employee is an endangered species due to these abhorrent atypical employment schemes.

Save A Scandinavian.

Thanks so much Direct Bondi, very useful stuff!

About the last part, I must say I’m in doubt about the contract because of this. Just that this is something that is anyway happening in aviation. For instance if easyJet or Ryanair would start competing with SAS directly, which they do, and offer their pilots less, which they also do, wouldn’t that be the exact same thing? I think it’s seriously time that we pilots start to think about organising ourselves properly and collectively (so not only inside airlines but throughout the industry) and lobby to make laws against the abuse of pilots..

A previous poster mentioned that the new contract would be on par with Easyjet

Well it's nowhere near. A massive thumbs down by the troops. They have tried to engage with CAE to no avail. Other agencies looking after TUI and TCX Palma have now improved their package due to lack of interest. Well CAE seem to be in denial, nothing to see here, move on. Maybe they were relying on the Monarch pool which has now dried up. People are not joining in the numbers required, CAE may soon have to pay penalties for not meeting their obligations.

BALPA are now meeting with CAE in April. Here's to a positive outcome. It could become q decent operation.

Except they don’t. Both EZ and FR pilots make more than the Scandinavian SAS pilots, with better rosters, etc. Wouldn’t be very nice if SAIL offered better terms than core SAS. That would sort of remove the entire reason for SAIL, which was established due to the «high cost» of the Scandinavian employees. 4% of the total costs for SAS...

Aprils fool! EZ and FR pilots does not make more than SK core pilots. But hard to compare, given that SK pilots have a fixed monthly salery, and the rest has a variable pay depending on their schedule. But how do you know all this BS you come up with?

By looking at my own paycheck and comparing it with those of friends flying for FR and EZ, and DY for that matter. No BS, hard facts. If you don’t know any better than to call BS on things you obviously know nothing about, it’s better to stick a sock in it.

And how many scheduled block hours did you use in your comparison? You are quite the expert in comparing apples and pears, and nagging about the worst of both fruits :) Did you fly anywhere else than SAS professionally so that you know for sure what you are always talking about?

Malaga
 

How come they offer 6/3 pattern for captains but 5/4 for FOs? (According to Parcs recruitment adds on their website.)

Is it’s due to the massive amount of unemployed A320 captains that CAE exclusively knows about, or is it something else in this?



Anyone with insight about London base? Is there a balance with the crew vs aircrafts yet?

Life on top, just out of curiosity, do you fly for any of the outfits we are discussing?

Life on top is just taking the you know what like many other non flying monkeys without a life on here

Take it from someone who's tried both....

You do about the same amount of hours in both outfits. The way you're paid is very different between them two. In terms of net money, Ryanair wins over the course of a career (as of today). If you compare the full package, it throws things around a bit and many perks come just from living in Scandinavian with free this free that..

For your info. There are no B-Scale in SAS at the moment. This was solved in 2016.

Lol.... If you have the same career and does the upgrade at the same time (which you have to assume in order to have any numbers to play with), then the gross salery in Scandi is waaaaay higher than Ryanair, even in the remote chance of working close to 900 a year in Ryan, especially the period as an FO. And that is not to mention the pension scheme in Scandiland...

No doubt Scandinavian salaries are ok, however SAS Ireland is a totally separate company and things are very sub standard salary and t&c wise. Way below current industry standards.

Any evidence to back up the rumours, SAIL are finding it very hard indeed enticing flight crew to join?

To compound their issues, they will no doubt imminently haemorrhage further pilots to BA and Easyjet, once they start sending offers out.

All these shady outfits have been trying their luck since the demise of Monarch and Air Berlin and now they're realising people are waking up and smelling the coffee, after the initial shock.

Offering a Part Time Roster with 5/4/5/13 for a start-up airline that is started with the sole purpose of being cheaper for the owners, should be evidence that they are having a hard time finding "willing, able, suitable" candidates. There are MANY job offers for A320 drivers out there - why should anyone opt for the one with crap conditions?

1 - Basing in LHR or AGP is super important to you.
or
2 - You got rejected elsewhere.

Regarding the new order of new A320s from SAS, anything mentioned about how many that will be deployed to SAIL?

Nil, as per SAS union agreement...

List five or more then? I and many other A320 drivers are looking hard to find the many you are talking about... And I am talking about jobs for first officers :-))

And just to clarify my previous post, I was of course talking about the salary in core Scandi vs. Ryanair...

1) easyJet
2) BA/IAG
3) Aer Lingus
4) Lufthansa/Eurowings
5) Air France
6) WOW
7) Wizz
8) Agean
...for starters -and that’s just in Europe

And you are sure that all of these provide better T/C`s than SAIL? :ugh:

Probably not. Aegean I don’t know to be honest. Wizz is probably similar whilst the rest are better. easyJet should be a non brainer but then again if you failed to get in (of which I’m certain) you’re stuck with the desperate operators such as SAIL. Anyone can get a typerating these days...

Politics aside...

In mainline SAS we are now doing LHR flights AND layovers in Malaga, management admits that staffing resources in mainline are limited because of this - can anybody on the inside at SAIL shed light on the current staffing situation at SAIL?