Temporary and then to what? Asia? The new standard “deal” for 320/737 captains in Europe seems to be around €6-7000 gross on a contract via agency with no pension, no or very low sick pay, 8 days off per month spread out over the month and no fixed base.

Good luck.

I understand, that Monarch and Air Berlin pilots need to pay their bills.

Still, you can compare it to the Ansett/Trans Australian situation in 1989. The original employees got out-manoeuvred, and other labour took their place.

They were called :mad:, and to this day the situation cause tension.

I am aware, that the Australian pilots all resigned in order to put pressure on the management, but I fully understand their anger.

Nonsense
 

In 1989 there was a strike.
There was hiring ban put in place by IFALPA.
Those who flew, did so knowing they were strike breaking.

None of those factors are in play today.
Is it cost reducing? Yes
Will it erode the SAS contract over time? Definitely
What are the SAS pilots doing about it? Nothing

Matthew 5:5 is not a suitable strategy to address your issues.

Incorrect. EZY have taken a lot of TREs. No DECs are starting before April. There is no FO recruitment until September at the earliest. How do I know this? Because I was sat in the old Concorde House talking to the easyJet pilot recruitment team in one of the Monarch drop in sessions they set up. Virgin hired 50, a fair few of them were LHS at Monarch so a lot of FOs kicking around.

Correct. I'd imagine as soon as easyJet do FO assessments the floodgates will open.

All of SAS's christmases have come at once with Monarch going down.

Believe you me, the unions tried. EU laws actually don't allow the unions to oppose this, it is within a company's right to establish subsidiaries. At least that's what the legalese said when the unions read it.

ProfessorSnape said

Incorrect. EZY have taken a lot of TREs. No DECs are starting before April.

This is incorrect!

RHINO - in which case that's excellent news! I'm not aware of a single captain who has a date before April but if they do I'm very happy for them. It was a right pain for many just trying to book an assessment as it required constant monitoring of the site for a day to pop up!

DEC's started nearly two weeks ago...

Dear SAS pilots,

Much like the Cathay/49'er conflict You can not expect other pilots to fight Your fight.
You start the fight, then others might join in.

Legal mumbo jumbo about why You have been unable to do something is just bs.

Stop looking for excuses for doing nothing, You have been doing that for 15 years and see where that got You!

You do know right that all our planes we’re parked up 1,5 years ago to get rid of the “A and B scale”? More than can be said about Cathay? It’s got everything to do with the “legal mumbo jumbo”. Public support is long gone in this low cost era.

I am of the opinion the unions could have a tougher attitude in some issues we’re facing but had there been a reasonable way to stop this I am sure they would’ve.

172,

Yes I am aware, also aware You just signed a new 3 year contract to get a few % payraise while SAIL gets of the ground!

Public support and reasonable solutions are just more excuses.

You have to be prepared to wage war on management, talk will get You nowhere.

C195,

It's limited by CLA, but still too many :{

hd,

3 year agreement that can be waived after 2. And no, I wasn't in support of that either.

Hopefully SAIL will soon be written off as a one time loss, just as Snowflake, Spanair, etc.

According to the IAA website, still no AOC.

What's happening at SAS Ireland? I see that two A320NEOs have been delivered to Stockholm Arlanda and EI-SIA is currently in Shannon? What's the very latest therefore?

As everyone knew 6 months ago: No AOC.

How long did it take Norwegian? A year? SAS is in for a long wait.

Run while you can...

I might be wrong, but I'm sure they couldn't fly from Stockholm to Shannon without an AOC. Only the initial delivery flight is exempt.

Crew training is being conducted in Ireland

No AOC. Confirmed by SAS management in several Scandi newsmedia today...

Don’t confuse AOC and registration. Just because a plane has an irish registration doesn’t mean it has to be flown in an irish AOC. Therefore, if that irish registered plane is flying it can do so in any kind of AOC.

So according to mates at SAIL, they received a letter from SAIL CEO announcing the receiving of AOC couple of days ago.

... and at the very same time SAS tells scandi media (børsen.dk) "no AOC yet".

Sounds like they are stringing along their SAIL employees.
Any day now, any day.

Tell us, how many of those mates of yours are getting paid while they wait?

Current AOC holders. Irish CAA:

https://www.iaa.ie/commercial-aviati...ficate-holders

Don't leave. The cheque is in the mail...

I heard a rumour, that some of the NPHs had found other jobs.

With no proper staff, no AOC I guess

They do have an AOC. It came into effect on the 13th December (Licence number 04/17)
The crew are being paid.

I notice CAE are advertising management jobs again for positions that were supposed filled

From CAEs LinkedIn account:

AOC up and running, airline is doing well.

I think this whole setup and the demise in Monarch is a lesson against very strong unions. Be fair but realise the company you work for needs to make a profit.

Companies with legacy terms and conditions and very strong unions will find another way of reducing costs.

Because of this yes there is a race to the bottom and T&C's are worse, so next time everyone gets belligerent, think before you get red mist and get too unionised..

Unions have a very valid and important place, but so do we as employees in recognising the company needs to make money

What evidence can you provide that Monarch’s demise was due to a strong pilot union? Anything?

Ditto for SAS, in what way have the unions been unreasonable?

Unless we accept the norm that everyone should be hired off shore and dicked around with in their personal life, this seems to be nothing but union busting. SAS is already making profit.

SAS just made its biggest profit in 20 years. Before SAIL started flying.

thanks guys!

same for us in Germany. Its not the unions fault. Of course NIKI and LGW operated with a small profit. Why? Because they got all their Overhead Maintenance CAMO Crewing ATO Lawyers Merchandizing technology Performance Slots from its mother. Did somebody ever look at the costs and has the mother ever sent a bill for all this groundhandling to niki/lgw with a reasonable amount? No! But we the Pilots are too expensive. :mad:. CEO´s can just look at the costs and McKinsey KPMG & Co can't value motivation.
And what happened in germany? Airberlin bought small crap airlines to put there slots to them and let others buy those airlines with slots. Both airlines wouldnt have been able to live 3 months without its mother.
2 Years ago i applied for SAS and its so sad that they break down the company. my dream is still to get back to Sweden and work there...
The company paid 10.000 Euro for one single off day for longhaul. The union told them since 4 years they have to employ people. But if you calculate with 95BHR for every employee and without sickness the boomerang kicks back.
But yeah listening to the union and employ two first officers for 4400€ each month is worse than paying 10.000 for one day off for a captain.

Its always such a surprise that the summer always begins in June !

It would be nice to hear from an insider how are things there as the company has started finally to fly...

Gnarlberg - I could not agree more.

PS - the pilots in SAS were never compensated with 10.000 euros for selling one day. More like 1.000 euros.

We also calculated and came to the conclusion that it would be cheaper to pay people to leave.
Example:
20 First Officers and 20 Captains all in the highest salary.
If you pay those 20 Captains 200.000 Euro each for leaving and quitting, let them go to Etihad and continue there last 3 years of their Career you could save Salary of 2 Years.
For this saved money you can upgrade the 20 very expensive first officers to captains, so they just become middle range captains in terms of salary. And you can employ 25 new First Officers which each cost 40% of the Old First Officers.

You have created opportunities for many and rearranged the salary distribution.But noooo the union is so dumb...

CEO´s current leadership style is : Divide and rule. This will kick back. Im sure that one AOC with motivated employees will be better in long term future than 5 AOC´s all operating the same A/C with contracts in 4 different countries. They divide and rule. then the union is forced to sign bad agreements. when these bad agreements are signed, they put the AOC´s together again and created a company where people fight against each other...

gnarlberg,

It’s true the company would like to get rid of expensive pilots and have tried so through various methods. How wise that is is for anyone to judge. Personally I think it’s extremely short sighted.

Best way to "get rid" is offer part time. Normally this is taken up by senior Captains, replace with "cheaper" Captains upgraded from FO who are replaced by cheaper new FO's.
Works well

I heard there are "droves" of FOs from both ARN and OSL leaving the company for Norwegian since they are now employing to all nordic bases.

Question:

Is there any plans to take up recruitment for SAS nordic bases in the "near" future?
Or this loss of FOs will suit the company well so they can staff their SAS Ireland with new hires instead?

The FOs that’ve left/about to leave are the “cheap once”, hired after 2013 who’ve realized they can earn more for the same work elsewhere. Or achieve a better quality of life elsewhere. Good thing is it sends a clear message to management that none have invested their life in this company.

Part time is also a hot topic, but generally works better if offered on a voluntary basis rather than forced upon the work force.

Part of the frustration that some may be feeling is that none knows where this ship is steering. If SAS will cease to exist as we know it and continue as a brand with cheaper production units (like SAIL) performing the work.

At some point they must hire more, but when and in what form remains unknown.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/reuters/2....google.co.uk/

So this reports 40-50 new A320 neos required on a possible order.
Selling off of various sections of the company, this making SAS attractive for a buyout from another company.

Will either of these happen?

Will LHR see extra a320’s?
Will they see any of the A330 on order?
Will they just become part of another carrier?

Will the current abysmal package ever improve to something half decent?

Look, as far as i'm concerned, I will be polite and friendly to ANY SAS pilot/crew I come across, if they are not so to me - that is up to them.

I like the Scandinavian people! I need to pay my mortgage. I very much doubt many SAS pilots would be prepared to relocate to LHR at no cost (but am prepared to be corrected) We are saving SAS money on many levels & helping the airline... I do understand the sceptisism from SAS crew however and hope to alleviate their concerns in the future..

You will find SAS Ireland VERY professional (many pilots are X Monarch whose stds were second to none - and the others I have met have shown outstanding stds too), we hope to emulate the standards of SAS mainline! I suspect if SAS Ireland didn't get off the ground, LHR would close or reduce services eventually.

As pilots we MUST all realise the airline is a business that MUST make money however.

AND Yes, there were many instances when Monarch pilots/union had NO idea the state the airline was in.
In 2014 & 2017 within weeks of an imminent collapse, we got pay rises and increases in T&C's...

Best of luck to you all...

Are there any news on SAS positions CPH ARN OSL? they have updated their Homepage sasgroup.net stating that they're looking for 320 FO´s in CPH, also the Head recruiter told me some weeks ago they're currently only looking via CAE for SAIL but I should keep my application up to date... some weeks ago the SASgroup.net website was frozen and it was written you can't update your application. Today it was possible to update upload stuff. Seems like there is movement ?

R1ddle, well you are breaking the neck of the old SAS crews and try to earn understanding for that. Thats not nice. And looking at their pay scale you def. earn more in UK.

SAIL:
Basic Salary
£ 3,300.00 per month
Flight allowance (applicable once 15 days worked in a month)
£1,000.00 per month
Overtime per b/h
£ 78.33 per b/h over 60
Overnight allowance
£ 51.00 per night
Standby daily rate
£ 50.00
+LOL , medical & accident insurance

SAS Scandinavia for ex.

28,845 SEK + Duty pay(?)
+4-5000 SEK per diem