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-   -   SAS Ireland SAIL (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/590393-sas-ireland-sail.html)

matt283 6th Jul 2018 12:27

SAS Ireland still flying and doesn't even look like they cancel flights due to lack of pilots.

I wonder if there are any improvements on the contracts or still nothing?

172_driver 6th Jul 2018 14:48


SAS Ireland still flying and doesn't even look like they cancel flights due to lack of pilots.
How would you know? SAS is cancelling lots of flights at the moment and the reason for that is manline is short of pilots, Cityjet is short, SAIL not sure. I guess they dispose resources to minimize the damage. You do know right that mainline is flying out of Malaga? That's an indication to me that SAIL is not flying what it was supposed to fly and SAS is cancelling in the Nordics to cover up.

matt283 6th Jul 2018 15:52

I based my comment on looking at SAS Ireland 6 a/c on flight radar today and all of them seems to fly.

ei-sia, ei-sib and ei-sie did first wave departures from agp.

172_driver 6th Jul 2018 17:03

Says little about the overall crewing situation though.

I believe there are a couple of Neos without engines parked up in Hamburg destined for SAIL. Possibly the engine issues cover up the crewing issues. Who knows. SAS hasn't managed the crew shortage very well. And the public speech in Sweden that is what due to crew calling sick en mass was ridiculous and no less manipulative than O'Learys weak attempt at covering up their crewing issue last year.

matt283 6th Jul 2018 17:52

I heard crew based in spain for sas ireland is on the temporary english contract and paying taxes in ireland :eek:

Anybody able to confirm that?

ATIS 10th Jul 2018 21:38

New contracts out.

Pension increased to 5%. (Have to, by UK law. But there is a maximum amount you can save)

£1000/£1500 yearly allowance towards the cost of LOL. FO/CPT

No increase in pay. And in return they can adjust to a random roster in order to crew the flights.

And this is supposed to solve their crewing crisis. Stick that up your a**







Perser_dk 11th Jul 2018 11:43


Originally Posted by Raski (Post 10194066)
not suprised at all.
TCs remain the same, crap, and this is why pilots are leaving.
Only youngsters remain, or skippers willing for part time.
SAIL will not go far.
I assume the last 3 aircrafts will be sent directly to Scandiland.
I think this experiment was a failure like the previous ones attempted by SAS mainline.

When will they be delivered? Is the crew situation really that bad, what about recruitment?
Today I see all aircrafts are flying..
Are more people about to leave?

Life on top 11th Jul 2018 12:49


Originally Posted by Perser_dk (Post 10194172)
When will they be delivered? Is the crew situation really that bad, what about recruitment?
Today I see all aircrafts are flying..
Are more people about to leave?

EI-SIF only flying OSL-LHR-OSL with one hour delay due to FLIGHT DECK CREW SHORTAGE. And TOS was cancelled this morning to move an mainline A/C to AMS due to SAIL shortage according to my friend.

ATIS 12th Jul 2018 08:32

Not quite true.

Large age range in both seats, with a very high Union membership. BALPA, IPA and SELPA. Probably about 90% are refusing to work days off until there's a drastic improvement. So many are refusing easy money now in the hope of more rewards later.

CAE are a bunch of misers, and probably don't want to fork out money for a CCQ onto A320


Whisperfail 12th Jul 2018 08:56

Recruitment
 
Itís an impressive amount of recruitment ads and mails they have had for the positions in SAIL, not to mention all the screening days...

And for what, 40 positions? Wonder what all that have cost...

MD80rookie 12th Jul 2018 17:48

From CAE Parc Aviation Facebook:

"Great day at CAE London Gatwick! Thank you to all our fantastic candidates who attended, and the very helpful CAE staff.

Next week we are in Manchester!

SAS Ireland our partner airline continue to grow and develop their London Heathrow base!

This is a perfect opportunity for Airbus Fleet Captains and A320 First Officers to enjoy a stable roster and be in command of the newest fleet of A320neo aircraft."

Continue to grow? Develop their LHR base? Stable Roster?

I have checked SAIL traffic regularity in our (SAS) system - it's quite an impressing amount of flights cancelled due to lack of flight deck crew, or delayed flight due to flight deck crew shortage.

Perser_dk 23rd Jul 2018 14:10

I heard the next A320 "EI-SIG" just did another "test flight" today and is planned to operate from Thursday this week.
Must have been some new crew joining?

matt283 23rd Jul 2018 15:05


Originally Posted by Perser_dk (Post 10203996)
I heard the next A320 "EI-SIG" just did another "test flight" today and is planned to operate from Thursday this week.
Must have been some new crew joining?


I heard about cancellations due to lack of both flight crew and cabin crew due to very bad t&c...

matt283 23rd Jul 2018 15:53

Very high turnover of staff is always indicator of very bad t&c.

I think SAIL were very lucky to start the operation after Monarch bankruptcy.

However now with base in Malaga I don't see anybody who would be interested to work for them.

Only option would be very low hours guys straight after flight school, but they ask for min 500h on a320, so it doesn't work for them neither...

The main question is how much longer they will try to keep it working?
Another thing is why they don't even try to raise the t&c?

SMT Member 24th Jul 2018 07:22


Originally Posted by matt283 (Post 10204085)
Another thing is why they don't even try to raise the t&c?

Why, because lower T&C is the sum total of SAIL's reason for being. SAIL is an effort to circumvent the, relatively, high T&C enjoyed in Scandinavia. The most deplorable thing about SAIL is not the company itself, but rather accepting the thing becoming a reality by 'legacy' staff members. Someone posted a map of the routes expected to be flown by SAIL, and only a small proportion are to/from LHR and AGP - the rest is all around Europe and intra-Scandinavia. That's not how SAIL was initially sold to SAS employees, but anyone with just two functioning brain cells should have told themselves, that a fleet of 9 aircraft is way more than is needed to operate LHR-Scandi and AGP-Scandi.

172_driver 24th Jul 2018 08:22

I think we all realized quite quickly what the real intent of SAIL was. The unions have stood helpless watching this unfold with little they could, legally, do. One wonders if the current panic recruitment to mainline is a result of failed recruitment to SAIL. I read in the news today, for what it's worth, that 80 % of the SK-cancellations are due to the inability of SAIL and CityJet to deliver and mainline has stepped in to cover up.

matt283 24th Jul 2018 09:13

OK, so is it very likely that SAS after the summer season will absorb SAIL a/c and close this experiment??

Whisperfail 24th Jul 2018 09:19

No
 
No. SAS Will never admit anything wrong here. They will continue with the project and eventually get the crew needed. But the company will bleed for a while.

EIFFS 24th Jul 2018 10:01

Meanwhile Norwegian have applied for a Swedish AOC which they expect to be granted by the fall, application to the US authorities may take a little longer.

Given the companies stated objective to streamline and harmonise AOC’s there is much speculation that the Swedish authorities will allow cross AOC flying by pilots from NAS/NAN/NUK the IAA are not so keen apparently.

maybe the grass is not so green in Ireland and after all

BluSdUp 24th Jul 2018 20:53

Cherry Picking AOCs , nice one.
I do think this Industry has gone bonkers mad.
In Europe , that is supposed to be the same!

Or are they hunting for The Competent Authority and finding none,,,,,,,,

directmisbi 25th Jul 2018 08:15

All bases going dot SE register within a year. Watch this space..

Perser_dk 25th Jul 2018 08:44


Originally Posted by directmisbi (Post 10205503)
All bases going dot SE register within a year. Watch this space..

It's interesting how Norwegian decide to move back to Scandinavia and SAS to move out. But that's offtopic here I think.

Anyone in the company that can confirm there is new pilots starting, where do they come from?
According to FR24 both yesterday and today all planes seems to be operating according to plan (4-6 legs each).
Strange when last weeks been a disaster, then things hit media and suddenly there is enough pilots?
Is the agreement for bought days off changed?

SMT Member 26th Jul 2018 12:15


Originally Posted by Whisperfail (Post 10204578)
No. SAS Will never admit anything wrong here. They will continue with the project and eventually get the crew needed. But the company will bleed for a while.

If anything, history has taught us differently. SAS is historically very volatile to negative financial and operational reports, and have cut off limbs (so to say) on several previous occasions. If the current occupational climate for pilots persist, SAIL and any other airline offering sub-par conditions may encounter a prolonged pressure, they're unable to withstand under their current business model. Then it's either fold or pay, a trend currently experienced on the US commuter market. A 'pay' solution may effectively undermine the very reason for SAIL's being, and then it's not a far cry to suspect a fold and absorption of crew and aircraft into mainline.

SAS's biggest worry right now seems to be CityJet, who are allegedly the main reason for mainline SAS pilots working serious overtime. And here's the thing I don't get: First they outsource your jobs to bottom feeders (employment condition wise), and when they can't crew their contracted flights it falls back to you to cover, and you accept it. See, right there is where my sympathy for their loss of jobs takes a rather dominant nosedive.

MD80rookie 27th Jul 2018 14:19

How many pilots have left SAS Ireland since the start and how many have started? I am looking for net numbers, a rough estimate. Hugh internal debate in SAS right now. They are slowly starting to admit that airplanes actually need pilots to fly them..

LEMG 27th Jul 2018 15:51

EI-SIG is about to carry out her first flight ARN-LHR in a few minutes.

matt283 27th Jul 2018 18:06

Seems like they found a skipper to fly EI-SIG, can't say the same about EI-SIB today...

This morning ARN-LHR on EI-SIG already cancelled as well:uhoh:

MD80rookie 3rd Aug 2018 21:14

The staffing situation in SAS Ireland (SAIL) is apparently at a critical level... With another aircraft arrived, panic has spread...

SAS Scandinavia's pilots have been asked to help out by working on days off.

And management is admitting that recruitment for SAIL is where the problem is - like everyone predicted.

turbine100 3rd Aug 2018 21:59

I think the issue is the terms and package need to be improved. People are joining and then leaving.

BluSdUp 4th Aug 2018 09:05

Lolo
Now that question is easy to answer: Unions with no clue!

Regards
Cpt B
NF
IFALPA member

Skipping Classes 4th Aug 2018 14:43


Originally Posted by Lolo75020 (Post 10214214)
Everybody knows the issue
They prefer cancel flights and asks the guys to work eventually on days off, promise them better roster, part time, good work environment, every thing that's is actually free instead of moving the cue of real salaries for every body.
​​​​​It seems to be like that in all other companies that pay shamely. (eurowings, Austrian, primera, small planet, smartlynx, travel service, vueling, etc)

The question is that why almost everywhere in the world salaries are higher and not in Europe.
Europe 5000Ä gross vs China 25000Ä net....

Because nobody wants to live in China.

APU_inop 4th Aug 2018 17:18


Originally Posted by Lolo75020 (Post 10214214)
Europe 5000Ä gross vs China 25000Ä net....

25k eur net? :sad:

CaptainProp 4th Aug 2018 20:57


Originally Posted by APU_inop (Post 10214540)
25k eur net? :sad:

Yes.

CP

matt283 10th Aug 2018 14:22

I thought agreement was to put 9 a/c for SAS Ireland and now seems like they have 7 active a/c and waiting for delivery of 3 more.

Did something change...?

MD80rookie 10th Aug 2018 14:41

Well, judging by the staffing situation at the Malaga "base" it's very unlikely that a total of 10 airframes will be int traffic anytime soon.

Last night they made a crew change in CPH to operate CPH-AGP. Why would you do that? because you need to transfer people to AGP from LHR where the few that still are left is based. This particular flight was 2 hours delayed "awaiting crew from another flight".

Soon, SAS will have to wetlease to cover the wetlease gone wrong...

BluSdUp 10th Aug 2018 19:27

SAS cancelled 500 flights in July and are buying days off to the tune of 2600e a day.
Time to dump the numnuts in management?

CaptainProp 11th Aug 2018 11:25

Iím surprised they have even been able to crew 7 aircraft!! Goes to show how many numbnut colleagues we have out there who are willing to accept T&Cs on offer.

CP

Serenity 11th Aug 2018 18:21

According to CEO of SAIL the last two aircraft wonít be seen before end of the year.
They canít crew them!!

BluSdUp 12th Aug 2018 10:48

Super experienced Cpts , no doubt!

CaptainProp 12th Aug 2018 13:19

Offering freelance contracts now as well. About 60% of daily rate when compared to standard freelance rates.

CP

matt283 12th Aug 2018 13:45

I wonder if parc finally created Spanish contract of employment or pilots are still employed under uk intention of employment contract...?


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