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SAS Ireland
Really the company should be called more aptly Monarch. It is a majority of that failed companies pilots that have joined and they are doing there level best to destroy this new venture for SAS. They are refusing to co operate with the operator Cae/Parc and have steadfastly refused acceptance of any new contract offered by Cae/Parc. Its a neat little operation but its not blossoming as the group of sad spoilt former Monarch chaps are determined to spoil a good thing!
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Really the company should be called more aptly Monarch. It is a majority of that failed companies pilots that have joined and they are doing there level best to destroy this new venture for SAS. They are refusing to co operate with the operator Cae/Parc and have steadfastly refused acceptance of any new contract offered by Cae/Parc. Its a neat little operation but its not blossoming as the group of sad spoilt former Monarch chaps are determined to spoil a good thing! Depends on which side of the revelution you're on, but for the pilot community it's in our interest they play hard ball while the market forces act in their direction. |
I heard that the head of training resigned. The first DFO resigned in January.
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So did the Malaga base open today as I believe was the latest info shared to colleagues at mainline? |
Are there any overnights confirmed from malaga or only turnarounds?
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Hoggtart, do you agree with the following? £62500 basic for an Airbus Captain £1000 flight pay per month. If you are rostered less than 15 days work, and report sick, you will lose the entire £1000 You've joined for the 5/4 roster. But in order to maintain the schedule they have the right to alter to a random roster (this was introduced in the new contract they refused to sign, not in the original one they signed) They require a Drs certificate if more than 2 days sick ( I am told this is illegal under UK law) Do you still believe they are spoilt? They want more than nothing, for this operation to succeed. If you agree with the above then please send in your CV. The pilot group tried to engage with CAE (I've seen the letter they sent, trying to address their concerns), but they were met with denial from CAE. Im at WOW and wanting to return to UK, but not on those terms. PS It was the entire workforce (cabin crew and pilots) from various airlines who refused to sign. They are not all Monarch. But yes Monarch pilots are the majority. |
Hoggtart, on the current contract an Airbus Captain at SAIL is paid around £4300 p/month (based on ATIS figures) and you dare to call that a good thing? Also taking into account that the pension is the legal minimum and therefore will require topping up. Even if that could be done through salary sacrifice then it still puts a big dent in the take home pay. Hopefully you are a man/woman of your word and won’t sign a new and improved contract if it ever materialises. Seems a bit hypocritical if you would take the new & improved contract whilst at the same time slagging of the people who are fighting for a better contract. |
Hoggtart, looks like you’ve been rumbled. So you’re already at SAIL!! The guys know exactly who you are. Failed to get a command at Easyjet Failed to get a command at Etihad Failed your command interview at SAIL, and now you’ve reported the Head of Training to CAE on a different matter. So who is the spoilt one? happy flying. |
Atis
Thanks for clearing that up, did think Hoggtart sounded a bit odd.
I hope all Monarchs get a good choice , and bring good conditions with them. I can make more painting houses in Norway then that contract.. Anyway How is SAIL and SAS doing? The last in the local paper was that SAS was not happy with the CRJ Irish lot , City Jet i belive as they had over 100 cancellations in May alone. Can I make a guess poor planing and or lack of crew. Does anyone know.? You see, the point of out sourcing would be to make it cheaper and more efficient overall . Something the SAS Management has forgotten. A good summer to All Cpt B |
According to management everything is fine and dandy - personally i believe we are gonna see a Norwegian 2.0 this summer. Resources are going to be streched with no reserves all summer.
Cityjet are lacking crew - had some maintenance issues earlier on this year. SAIL obviously also lacking crew. Sling's are already optimized for SAIL out of AGP and LHR so the mainline guy's are now schedueled for nightstops those places to fly the SAIL slings - must be cheap. Rumer has it SAS mainline will start recruiting in the fall/winter and according to management it will not be a problem - more than 3500 suitable pilots in the hold pool :) We will then further bleed out Cityjet if any are left and willing to accept the sub par starting T&C's in SAS. Last 2 MPL courses SAS trained all went to Norwegian with a fresh TR and much better pay - go figure. RYR are starting up again in CPH - young experienced FO are already talking about joining.... Meanwhile my phone is going berserk with request for buying days off. Everybody enjoy your summer... The Hippo |
Is the Cityjet operation crewed by CAE? If so, do you see the common problem. It seems SAS didn’t learn from their 1st mistake and have gone back to CAE for the SAIL operation. It may have been the cheapest, but it’s about to bite them in the backside. Fool me once.............etc |
Don't think CAE crews Cityjet? They've hired pilots through Scandinavian based agencies with collective bargaining agreement. Same with FlyBe. Second hand info is that cabin crew, at least, from LHR have been sent to AGP to operate from there. I guess some form of CPR to proove to everyone that AGP is open and operating. |
Seems like the main problem is the CAE as everything is run by them...
Lets see if SAIL will survive longer than snowflake... |
Anybody who works for an agency must realise that the employer’s first loyalty is to the airline and the pilot comes last.The situation is skewed because we are currently in a very brief window where the availability of experienced crew is very low |
One story if only the contract is with the agency and another story is when agency is actually running whole airline :(
Example: finnair has a base in BCN and crew is contracted by spanish agency, but everything else is run by finnair. |
That figure of £4300/month for a skipper is horrifically low, not surprising they are having recruitment problems. |
Wow , that is exactly the average pay in Norway.
And we pay less tax in Norway these days. Cool Why would anyone plan on staying there for long. And PS Malaga is not cheap anymore!! Every single RYR FO in Malaga that has past 1500hrs makes more: Again Wow. But then again that is in Reykjavik. |
I did not hear about a single ryr agp skipper that applied to sail.
Also seems like EI-SIE did not fly since the 7th of Jun... |
Fact: SAS Mainline is opening recruitment this fall. People in hold pool are given start dates in august.
Fact: SAS Ireland can not attract enough qualified, willing, able and suitable candidates. Rumour: Two airframes headed for SAS Ireland are now going to SAS Mainline. |
Originally Posted by MD80rookie
(Post 10173149)
Fact: SAS Mainline is opening recruitment this fall. People in hold pool are given start dates in august.
Fact: SAS Ireland can not attract enough qualified, willing, able and suitable candidates. Rumour: Two airframes headed for SAS Ireland are now going to SAS Mainline. SAS already started to look for cc as well for ARN base, but something is not right there, as at the bottom of the cc job vacancy they wrote: ¨I den här rekryteringen samarbetar vi med CAE. För frågor gällande rekryteringprocessen er du välkommen att kontakta CAE epost...¨ ¨In this recruitment we work with CAE. For questions regarding the recruitment process, you are welcome to contact CAE email...¨ |
Good to hear that SAS is taking in more pilots, a lot of tired LOCO commuters that wants home!
Now the question is can they afford to start? With regards to CAE They have come a long way from building simulators. In ca 2003 they bought Schreiner FlightcrewTraining as it was the 4 biggest at the time and Schreiner almost bankrupt. We told them how a TRTO was run and everyone was happy. Then the acquired some agency to milk that market to, and I am not sure they got the timing and the expertise right on that one. Does not look like it in this case. . |
Pretty sure SAS mainline will not be able to attract enough experienced pilots from the LOCOs around Europe. Spoke to a BA captain recently and even they are struggling to get enough people as pay is not competitive enough and nobody wants to fly SH out of LHR. |
Captin Prop, I agree with you. In order to lower costs by opening up SAS Ireland and LHR base SAS needed to keep the terms and conditions significantly lower than any competitor in UK. Ryanair permenant contracts (which are now offered to almost all the pilots) are miles better than SAS Ireland/CAE. The same goes for starting with SAS in Scandinavia. Apart from the other problems Ryanair pilots are facing in regards to their employer, pay, pension and roster is a lot better in Ryanair than SAS (both main and LHR/AGP).
The same goes for Norwegian right now, especially in the Nordic countries where they just hired quite a lot of pilots. So SAS will be looking to hire pilots from the regional airlines (luckily for them, Nextjet just went belly up so there are some 80 pilots there, although quite a few of them has already been scooped up by the likes of Flybe, Cityjet, BRA etc.) or the still shady outfits with bogus self-employment and these pilots see that a career at SAS is not what it was 15 years ago, there are better options out there. Easy are hiring 900 pilots this year I read and the SAS main contract is substantially lower than Easy. Although SAS claim to have 3000 applications in their datebase, I would think that 9 out of 10 of those are not interested in joining when they understand what the pay is and how and how much an SAS pilot actually works these days. A quick comparison: Two pilots (both rated with 1500 hours) start at SAS ARN and Norweigan ARN respectively. After 20 years of service and 10 years to command the Norwegian pilot will have earned more than 20% better than the SAS pilot and the company contributed pension will be worth about 45% more than of the SAS pilot. The same story goes for most other airlines too unless you look at the likes of Primera, Air Baltic, Nordica (Regional Jet), Smartlynx etc. |
Plenty of scandinavian pilots in our base (european orange lowcost), and nobody is even remotely interested in joining SAS. Pay significantly higher where they are now, and better rosters too. |
I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise. As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire. |
Indeed,ca 6 months ago I bumped into a pilot I used to fly with , and he said SAS HQ was shocked to see 10 pilots leave for NOR , to get home and better pay and quicker upgrade.
Interesting times indeed. |
I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise. CP |
Originally Posted by 172_driver
(Post 10173787)
I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise. As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire. 5 years ago there was no SAS Ireland, Cityjet wasn't flying 22 ac, no Estonian company was wet leased and the general pilot market wasn't what it is today. What is (was?) attractive with SAS is common seniority, long haul in house, basing close to home etc. But if RG gets his will through, those things are gone leaving it a company with substandard terms and no career prospects. Time will tell. |
I guess it will much depend on where you put the bar, esp. hours and language proficiency. That'd be something.....!! At least the recruitment team is still made up of pilots, thank god. |
SAS Main is to hire with courses starting in August, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone to apply there. You are about 15 years from an upgrade, and wages are one of the worst in Scandiland. In addition they are cancelling alot of flights theese days, and the mood on the lines are terrible. Especially experienced crew are much better of staying and aiming for an upgrade somewhere else. Stay clear of the trap of «a Scandinavian dream». The company is torn apart with internal conflicts for many years now. |
Originally Posted by 172_driver
(Post 10173896)
I guess it will much depend on where you put the bar, esp. hours and language proficiency. That'd be something.....!! At least the recruitment team is still made up of pilots, thank god. If my information is correct that ratio was 2:1 in 2014-2016, although it should be noted that the vast majority of pilots called for assessment in these years were experienced pilots and not cadets. However I don't think neither SAS Main nor SAS Ireland can handle being companies with high turnover ratio and hiring mainly cadets. In a few years, maybe, but the training capacity isn't big enough to handle that at the moment. For SAS Ireland, rumour is that the training department is falling apart after CAE has utterly failed in providing enough resources into the TD. |
No Training department no AOC?
How can you have an AOC with no one responsible for training.Has principle rule changed since 1999?
RYR for example had no TRTO and got CAE and SAS Flight Academy to do Type Ratings. But they sure had a training department that ordered CAE and SAS around . I think SAS is playing with fire , what if there is an accident and the local NTSB digs deep. Utter incompetent mother company administration, and a mailbox for Training! SAS has done good , but they can not afford to mess this up! I love flying with them , but this looks like a bad joke. Good Luck Cpt B |
Regardless of who does the training, for such a thing can legally be outsourced, any airline operating under EASA rules must have a NP training. No if's, but's or when's. There is, however, nothing stopping an airline assigning multiple postholder hats to a single person, provided they can argue their case to the regulating NAA. With this in mind, the NP Training hat may well be hung on another NP, probably flight ops.
It's not the way I'd run a train set, but it's not illegal. |
I'm hearing flights are regularly being cancelled now due to lack of crews. Most crews refusing to work days off until a vastly improved contract appears. So CAE have employed contract Captains to bridge the gap. Also a few regular pilots who don't mind the shoddy contract and volunteering to work their days off. Out for themselves only. Screw the rest. |
Originally Posted by ATIS
(Post 10177703)
Out for themselves only. Screw the rest.
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The Norwegian State has decided to sell all its ca 10% of the total SAS stocks.
The stocks will be available on the Børs.( Olso or Stockholm, dont know) Something is mowing in Europe. Is Lufthansa getting Norwegian AND SAS?. Me thinks so. Been wrong before. Good luck to all Flight Crew Regards Cpt B |
SAS stock sell off by Norway
Originally Posted by BluSdUp
(Post 10182284)
The Norwegian State has decided to sell all its ca 10% of the total SAS stocks.
The stocks will be available on the Børs.( Olso or Stockholm, dont know) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN1JM2CO |
An Irish AOC is not be all and end all of operators dreams, I’m reasonably confident that if Bjørn really did have crystal testies he would not go down that path again, the IAA required NAI went back to paper flight deck for 8 months despite NAS/NAN having been paperless for 4 years, same with NAI 737 long haul, crayons and plotting charts are the order of the day, at least it stops you getting bored, seems the IAA adult team can’t read down loaded files on servers, but can read 1000’s of scraps of paper and Oceanic clearances. i have heard from several normally reliable sources that it costs Norwegian more to run things through NAI than NAS/NAN the Labour certainly isn’t cheap and reverting to a Swedish AOC that will allow NUK/NAS/NAI pilots to fly across AOC is on the cards, remember that NAI is not Norwegian Air Ireland, but Norwegian Air International |
Eiffis
So were does a Swedish AOC come in.
Is that to get overfly rights over Russia, as have been the problem with a Norwegian AOC. Why another AOC, or maybe you are wrong? |
Originally Posted by BluSdUp
(Post 10184262)
So were does a Swedish AOC come in.
Is that to get overfly rights over Russia, as have been the problem with a Norwegian AOC. Why another AOC, or maybe you are wrong? Swedish AOC is apparently in the pipeline particularly for the Siberian overflight rights and to get away from the hassle of the IAA. US Pilots have been sat on their butts on full pay for well over a year now as the IAA won’t grant authority for FAA licensed Pilots to fly EI reg aircraft. In EasyJet, Pilots can fly G and OE reg in th same day without any problems. |
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