Nothing yet.

Nor me :-(

Me neither. How long does it usually take BA to come back with an answer?

Are you guys seriously expecting BA to turn around the absolute mountain of applications they must have had in less than a week?

They mark down on spelling! Hard luck old boy I guess your application has been ** thrown** away!

The sun is out. The weekend approaches. "Bidline is broken".

In BA speak, this means the recruitment team will have been Force Drafted and not able to process applications until... ;)

...or a tug, or your TSAT, or a stand, or for the stand guidance to be turned on, or for the jetty to arrive, or for steps, busses, ground power, hi-lift for wheelchair passengers etc.... Waiting for stuff is a HUGE part of being a Nigel. The impatient need not apply...

Or your final figures whilst sitting at the holding point.

This 'force drafting' is a bit of a bugger in BA isn't it?! To clarify - does it mean they can give you 24 hours notice on any day off that you will be working instead of having a day off? I've heard several mates bitching about it.

Is it also true that SH captains are bidding back to the RHS of long haul?

I've just been met on the jetty at T5 by a manager force drafting me for Sunday afternoon! :ugh: I hope they move faster with recruitment, forgot to pack my cunning disguise!

SinBin

:{



WBF

In a nutshell and roughly speaking -yes. It is part and parcel of the bidline system - the justification for it goes along the lines that "if you, the pilots want a preference bidding system/Bidline then we, the company, need an emergency mechanism to catering for uncovered work." Now according to the rule set it's meant to be a "random and infrequent" process, and it used to be so - uncovered work was generally picked up pilots bidding for overtime or by those on Reserve & standby. Problem is that recently for some (mainly but not exclusively the short haul P2s) it has become anything but "random and infrequent".....as reasons for that happening..:oh:

Don't you have people on home standby?

Normally a pilot in his reserve month will have some home standby yes. At the moment I think our reserve lines are working flat out and any holes are covered by force draft. Arrived at 11pm on Thursday night onto the C gates to find a manager.......for the skipper who is seriously high up in the company. Everyone is at risk of draft right now so for summer it's best to consider yourself as at work or on standby. Days off don't exist

Sweetener
 

All this sounds draconian, but what hasn't been mentioned is that 'force draft' attracts double overtime rates - or certainly it used to - which helps to swallow the pill. Also you have to stay legal, 1 day off after 7 etc, so you could end up losing a trip that was on your original roster and someone else would be drafted for that....It must still be cheaper for the company to be able to get a fully qualified crewman 'off the street' so to speak with no additional pension/holiday/training costs, or they wouldn't do it!

Additionally if you want the time off for a mundane project that needs completing - say decorating a room - then a forced draft or two would allow you to GSI (get someone in) the project and still leave you in profit.

Not anymore :{

Sygyzy

I remember the double time days but believe me it isn't at all like that anymore.


As ETOPS has pointed out it's much less....(1.25 or 1.5 rings a bell). In addition rumour has it any Part Timers being drafted seem to be being paid single time - I believe that one is going to tribunal. Factor in the taxman's hit on those payments to anyone in the higher tax bands, and also the (controversial) changes to Flying pay/flying allowance and many people will tell you that these days draft is not at all lucrative...what you're left with sure as heck won't pay to GSI in the SE UK. Time off is the new currency and some in the company seem to have some difficulty accepting that fact.

Al

Yes we do....but there have been instances where it appears drafting has been used to protect the standby's, just in case they were needed....(the old Supply Section NCO's excuse some of us will remember from Forces days...):ugh:

Correction
 

Clearly things have moved on - downwards - from my time playing the bidline rules. Fings ain't wot they used ta be!

Sorry for spreading misinformation.

S:(

Sygyzy

No worries, and certainly no harm done.

It's probably in the best interests of those researching the DEP scheme that a light has been shone on this aspect of BA pilots' current T&Cs.

I know this has been done in the past (the distant past) but could you wonderful BA ladies and gents give us some kind of clue as to what your roster looks like during this turbulent period? Both this month and next? (don't forget to include your seniority and base).

Ta

Ok June.

Force drafted then two days off followed by 6 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off (maybe), 6 on 3 off and another 2 on.

Mix of day trips and tours. 10 nights away from home. Mixture of earlier and lates but in blocks rather than mixed.

Not my own roster, but a random example of the most junior of the most junior fleet on a blind lines:

2 on 2 off, 4 on 3off, 3 on 1 off, 1 on 2off, 5 on 2 off, 4 on 1 off.

Mostly trips and mostly early starts, though this is isn't an indication of what a junior person can expect as it varies hugely. You can however expect to be working most, if not all weekends at the moment as a junior P2.

That's the 64k question. We may have some clues in a few weeks when the Union Reps reveal proposed changes they've been negotiating with the management. I guess it might end up better than now for some of the junior guys but I'm sure that if the company get their way it will mean everybody having less control over their lives and working even harder/longer days .

Basically it's wait and see :uhoh:

I don't think anyone can say with any certainty what our rostering agreement is going to look like. At the moment it's RosterMax, with minimum time off and one weekend, two if you're very lucky.

We spend a lot of time at work, but not working. Departmental politics means that hours 'in the office' is a benchmark with other areas of the business. This can lead to frustrating sitting about in airless canteens, while on other days you have an impossible schedule to meet with long journeys between aircraft and little over an hour between chocks.

No-one is prepared to arrange for you, the crew, and the airplane to be coordinated for the day. Our needs are just not on the radar.

The money is good but not great, the UK tax regime is outrageous and punitive, extra work is not rewarding, and as we have seen - not necessarily voluntary.

Yes it's still one of the best jobs in aviation, but aviation is not the best job in the World anymore. I'm sooooh tired. Don't know how long I can keep this up.:uhoh:

Airbus Unplugged

The final third of your post,#287, is of particular interest. I'm not suggesting that this is good or bad, but increasing consumer power doesn't come without sacrifice for which employees bear the most of these costs and not owners of capital. Return on labour plunges while return on capital grows which is good for the company.

I do sympathise with your situation but is the proportion of capital in BA that goes to employees in decline even though you put in more hours? I say No.

I think what's happening here is that capital is aligning with power (consumer) and we're seeing a new alliance. Would this alliance be enough to keep/create more jobs & over time in the flight deck? I say yes.

It's entirely right to evaluate the pros and cons of BA to you as an individual.

In terms of whether you agree with them or not is unfortunately tough, as BA will have no shortage of candidates regardless of things not being what they once were.

I would assume that things will get slightly worse at BA, but that will probably be the case no matter which airline you're at. Unless you'd rather be at a regional base or time to command is imperative, BA is surely still the best place to be in the UK.

The downside of getting rid of night stops is that you lose the early AM flights departing european stations that (in theory at least) feed the LHR Longhaul departures late AM onwards.......

I'm sure my short haul colleagues can give you plenty of examples of how the operation could be made much more cost effective and efficient without trying to force the pilots to work yet more duty hours.....there's a need to think "beyond the flight deck", or even "beyond the aircraft" :ok:,

wiggy

Thank you for #292. I'm with you all the way. You put all my mind in one sentence. Classic - "there's a need to think "beyond the flight deck", or even "beyond the aircraft".

...plus, of course, there is physically no more room at LHR to park any more aircraft overnight. All stands already taken so another reason to nightstop down route

Those of you watching a very British airline - all these people are above you on the seniority list... :}

Useful reminder jw; if you don't wish to be exposed to cadet "more senior" colleagues, outfits which elect to tap that resource likely won't suit and you'd be better off remaining clear.

Nobody can really say, since firstly they do not have a crystal ball, and secondly "better" is subjective.

However, under the current arrangements, the "junior trash" (as you call them) tend to work to a "blindline". In essence that means little choice in the work, but due to the vagaries of the system, they work less - by say 10%-15%. So anybody with evening classes on Tues/Wed/Thurs evening is pretty well OK to attend :ok:

Unfortunately, this "anomaly" has been noted by the grown-ups, and used as an illustration of how the current system is "not working". It is hard to disagree :( One possible outcome might be to leave the current system as far as possible, but find ways to get the Blindlines to near 100% work.

Were that to succeed, not only would there be little choice, and working every weekend, but the mid-week evening classes might not be so safe :{

That is but one possibility / interpretation, it's a big unknown for all right now...

Very true, but don't forget that these cadets started their training and applied to BA on the FPP over two years ago...

So has anyone had a response of any kind yet?

PFO received last Friday. Good luck to all !

I've not applied and nor do I have any interest in doing so!

Asking for people to list their experience might be a kick in the gonads for some! I can assure you that your experience is a minute part of the requirement and the main hurdle is answering the essay questions appropriately.

No answer yet...

Still waiting to hear anything......A friend of mine got a no.

With the sheer number of applications even the No's may take a while in coming. It would be interesting to know if they started working on the applications as they were received or whether it is an arbitrary process started on an fixed date.

FWIW I flew with a guy who does the sims for the recruitment process and he is expecting to start simming with candidates in mid-late July.

Regards

I'd be inclined to question that. Perhaps that's the date they were provisionally given. I'd say with the amount of time that has already gone by they're going to struggle to get everyone to selection days in advance of that. Obviously could be wrong though but you'd think successful candidates would have heard something by now if it were the case.

(Of course you did say "start" so who knows?)