Al M.

For completeness: BA Short Haul manager grumbles (on-line) about the competition from the LoCos, clearly hinting at how IAG/BA management feel BA pilots T&C's are completely out of kilter with the likes of that enjoyed by those who work for Easyair, Ryanjet, et al.:E and therefore clearly something must be done, or else....:mad:

Unfortunately for him several of his pilots, who are former employees of Easyair, point out that at least at their previous employer they had relatively stable rosters (especially the days off), they didn't have to spend a large portion of their (often extended) working days compensating for the inefficiencies of LHR, and that at their previous airline they (and/or their former colleagues) benefited from a profit share scheme that they felt actually rewarded them for the graft they put in.

I'm not quite sure if they regretted their decision to change employer but it's certainly given everybody food for thought ...... and the manager has not compared apples with oranges since.......;)

I love it when a Manager has to shut his cake hole...

I'm not entirely sure he has shut up. I'd expect him to be back with more demands in perhaps a few days time after meetings to decide on which new premises need to be introduced now that the old ones were outed as a load of old cobblers.

It is interesting to read the strength of feeling among the pilot community at BA to the allegations that there is a 'gap-to-market' when there are ex-Easy and RYR folks saying they were earning more and working less with a more stable roster than those at BA, while we have to wait upwards of 18 years for a command.

I get the distinct impression this isn't going to end well.

Doesn't BALPA have something to say about this? Or am I being hopelessly naïve?

But people are still queuing to join, and the costs of the RHS (and indeed LHS) are far higher BA vs EZY for operating an identical aircraft.

The costs have to come down unfortunately, and then roster etc can be managed with more staff.

True

I think the argument elsewhere is whether that sort of statement is actually true, especially for the more recent joiners.....

The suspicion is that the rosters could be managed with the current staffing levels, without stretching people and their duty/flying hours to breaking point, if management would address the inefficiencies elsewhere in the operation.......

BA has not gone down the route of zero hour contracts, flexi-crew, self employment status etc etc.

The flightcrew costs are indisputably higher.

The point is they always have been the highest, but the need for that and the other reasons behind that have now moved on.

There is undeniably going to be some criticism of BA from many who have not had the chance young enough, or not got through the selection, or for one reason or another would have loved the BA life but didn't get a crack at it. However, some very good points are being made here. As has been alluded to by Wiggy et. al. you are looking at gambling an awfully large part of your life in the hope that things don't end up looking like a LoCo with a hat.

If bidline goes, and if like many of my mates at BA you need to keep working something like 6/3 to make cap each month, then that wait for long haul or command can appear very long indeed. On the other hand, working for BA is "certainly a conversation starter down at the golf club" according to some of the posters in here. :rolleyes:

There is no set answer on this IMHO. What makes us happy is different for all. Apples and oranges.

Meanwhile, back on topic, the wait for recruitment to actually open goes on....

Sorry Plastic but the pros and cons of applying are a perfectly relevant topic to a thread entitled "BA Direct Entry Pilot" - particularly as you so keenly point out, there is no other news.

But not particularly relevant if recruitment isn't even open eh? Still while we wait it'll give you a chance to pull your knickers out your arse ;-)

(The comment "back on topic" was to indicate that the original post asked about a shortage of A320 Pilots at BA and potential recruitment and was clearly fishing for any further news. It wasn't meant to cause the personal offence it seems to have elicited).

"recruitment are working more than flat out to bring our FPPs into BA, to bring in some DEPs towards the end of this year (who will largely be going into training over the very end of 14/early 15) and to launch a significant DEP recruitment campaign for 2015. This is caused by real growth in the flying programme, and is obviously great news. The refined number is being worked on at the moment, but it’s a good number"

The latest from the horses mouth. I only post this to try and reduce the speculation.

If your at another airline have a look, the grass is greener it's just the brown patches are indifferent places

Equally so, I'd say. Either way now you know how it came across, don't you? Best of luck...

African Dude hope you are not bitter about not passing selection last time.


Speaking of hats, there is a rumour Easy are trialling some top quality hats?


If it does open up, best of luck to all.

For those interested I'd check the BA careers page, info updated.

2 days of assesment before you even get to the sim now.......jesus.

Seems like it's the same stuff, just split over two days instead of crammed into one. An improvement, no?

Spread over two days which won't be consecutive? Sounds like a pain in the backside (which I'm sure you'd take if interested in applying) and a somewhat inefficient use of resources. The previous one day for experienced pilots worked last time I went. Why change it if it's not broke?

That's before mentioning the enormous ball ache it's going to be for some of us to get back to the UK for interview in the middle of a hectic 90 hour month summer schedule and having to find three days from somewhere in which to do it!

3 separate sickies? Yeah that's not gonna be at all obvious. Plus I'm at a completely crap employer where you need a sick note just for one day of absence and you have to fill in your entire leave application for the full year ahead in January. The odds of days off falling in my favour are remote, why must this be so hard!?

Hilarious. If you want the job and think you're good enough to make the grade then make it happen.

BA sets the dates and sets the standards. The rest is up to you.

Here you go...

BA Careers - Direct Entry Pilots

Good luck everyone :ok:

StopStart as I've just demonstrated there are major factors at work outside of simply being "good enough for the job" that can throw a major spanner in the works, it's not quite as simple as making it happen. If life were that simple I'd be nowhere near this career, right now I'd be sitting poolside in Malibu on the mobile phone organising funding and getting together the cast and director for my next action motion picture blockbuster ;-)

Plastic787 the reality is this will be completely over subscribed with applicants. If a minority can't complete the process why should they care?

Personally I would prefer if BA had a chat with me for 20 minutes before sticking me in the sim for 45 minutes instead of a day of "psychobabble". However I don't see how any outsider is in a position to moan about the hoops any operator elects to setup for Pilots to jump through. Do not like the hoops or can't jump them then do not apply.

On a positive note BA in the past are very good with regards to interview schedules. If successfully achieving an invitation you will be forwarded a link with a list of dates and slot times allowing you to select which time suits you best. The joys of a proper airline:}

Yeah but to get the full benefit of that you need to be at a proper airline to start with, not one that regularly leaves it until less than a week to go until the next month when they finally deign to issue you with a roster.

I take the points though and I'm not arguing them at all. Just pointing out that running assessment centres on non consecutive days in the summer is going to make it enormously difficult for some people and possibly not just a minority.

A "proper" airline would keep the promises that they make to you on joining.

BA have just kicked a lot of us "oldies" out of the promise of access to rebate travel for the duration of our retirement, a bunch long retired, slowly dying off so that we will soon be out of their hair altogether, with pensions earned on salaries set many moons ago, not present day rates, so travel costs are now very significant as a result and beyond the reach of many.

( Please don't tell me that Staff Travel in retirement was always only "concessional" not "contractual", we know that, but "promises" mean nothing to them.

Be careful what you wish for. The present BA Management are a bunch of ......... ( you fill in the blanks) BOAC ( used) To Take Good Care Of You. Not any more.

Is this new programme likely to affect the number of places available for those wishing to get in via FPP?

AFAIK the DEP tranche will have no impact on FPP recruitment (i.e. it's in addition to FPP, not instead of).

Had a bit of a smile at the promise of a "industry leading roster bidding system", seeing as that's all up for grabs at the moment and at best will be less leading than it was.

Nevertheless good luck to those who apply.

BA short haul without bidline is just easyjet with a different uniform & a significantly longer time to command.
And if you are 30 plus and choose the longhaul route there is a real possibility you will retire as an FO. Nothing wrong with that of course, but as an FO myself with a command spot in sight I'll take the command first then join BA as a career FO.

This post does come across as bias, but I don't work for easy and I've passed the BA selection twice before drowning both times.

Just my 2 cents

Exspeedbird


Are you seriously expecting any sympathy?!


Seriously?


Your old BA pension is something todays generation will never ever have.

FTC

Just to avoid any confusion AFAIK the new DEPs will not have any choosing to do now or for the foreseeable future - long haul vacancies are being filled by internal transfer. Given the seniority list, the rate of movement within the same :hmm: and the fact that the very first FPP graduates are already propping that list up any prospective new joiners must base their expectations on staying on short haul (and probably the RHS) for quite some time (think decade(s) rather than months...).

Not to me, seems to be fair comment.

Ahh yes, that old chestnut. Or is it a disclaimer? Been there, done that. Surely not again though? Good luck to all involved but be aware, DEP hold pools have historically been bad news. On the brighter side, the maximum of 12 months is often extended to 18 months should the requirement arise. Plus, nice people in the pilot recruitment side and the B747-400 is a lot of fun…even though it was an assessment

Wiggy,

It may be that bidline 2014 is still market leading but with a less steep seniority gradient. I.e. The most senior bidders on each list may have to help cover the work on weekends and bank holidays. As it is at the moment, it is the more senior pilots who are the ones getting force drafted as the junior filth are already working most of the unsociable days.

All

I get the feeling that the management have finally realised that they need more 320 pilots as soon as. Those of you first through all the hoops may well find yourselves being asked, How soon can you start?

Best of luck to all

Regards

Just to clarify, I meant after doing your 7 or so years as an FO on short-haul you move to long haul and decide to stay long haul until a command on long haul came available rather than take a short haul command. But we both agree a very very long wait whatever path you choose, BA rarely take DEP long haul but it has happened in the past.

binsleepen
If BA are that desperate they could ring the guys that were in the last hold pool, we are still flying, we haven't developed Schizophrenia, and they still have our contact details....

Haven't posted in here for years...thought I'd add some advice for the aspiring DEP's...

My advice, and it is only my opinion so please hold fire on it and don't burn me at the stake just yet... join BA because it's something that you WANT to do. If money is your thing then yeah, as we know, you'll find that else in the world or perhaps with another airline that gave you free shares. Time to command? Stick with where you are now possibly?

Motivation will come in all different types and forms... and yes, they have recruited directly onto long haul, it happened last time they recruited and roughly 20/30 pilots went onto the 747... even though they weren't even rated on it. They are looking for Airbus pilots this time around though and me thinks they will go straight onto the Airbus right now...

keeno

Funnily enough one of the managers involved in recruiting said pretty much exactly that earlier today in "another place".....(I guess there's a hint there as to one question to expect when going for interview...and how not to answer:E)

They have indeed.......as you probably know that only happens when there aren't enough pilots who meet the criteria for an internal transfer via the annual bid process, and/or if there aren't sufficient people bidding to leave short haul (yes, in the dim and distant past it used to happened....blimey, those were the days.....:ooh:).

Yep.

Hi Wiggy,

Haha "another place".. I like that touch ;) Whether to join BA or not will ALWAYS be a topic up for discussion, it always has been... even without the current changes in situation and the vice versa's going on between a career at easyJet or at BA. This thread always crops up at time for recruitment and as well all know it can only boil down to the individuals desire and/or preference for their own career.

I was one of them and consider myself highly fortunate to not be in the position that some of my friends are in on the Airbus right now....

Interesting times lay head and it will be genuinely interesting to see if the level of applications is as high this time around as it was back in October 2010 when the doors were last opened!

If you have an A320 type rating the application is live now for submissions on the BA website. Just click on the link at the bottom of the DEP page....have fun.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.
 

Okay, can't keep quiet any longer.

I was recruited onto the airbus last time round, and I for one, seriously doubt wether coming to BA was the right move for me.

Having worked both in the Middle East and in the UK before, I think I have some idea of how other airlines are to work for.

And although BA is excellent in so many ways, it lacks in so many others.

I think, as it's been said before, unless career progression is far down on your wish list for a new job, and security and stability is the only 2 things you wish for, then I wouldn't apply.

You'll join SH which is a nightmare at the moment. You'll not see LH for years, and when you finally do, you won't have a weekend off again for a decade!
And then there is the whole command issue.

Commuting even from within the UK is no longer a desirable lifestyle. I would advice people to think very carefully before considering even a short commute 2-3 hours drive..

Having said that, the flying is pretty good, although busy. There is a very shallow gradient in the FD even more so than many other airlines.

The pilots normally tend to meet up down route - just a shame that you'll forget all about that person before you see him/her again.

Good hotels down route, but layovers are getting shorter, and increased pressure on SH might mean new hotels in the future...

If I was to sum up BA, I'd say the following.
- lonely place to work
- being senior means everything, if you're not then, well...
- Getting days off for important birthdays/weddings etc, is very difficult when junior. And if you're lucky enough to get the time off, you are in risk of being force drafted, as it's happened to me this weekend.

- management do not care, if you don't like it, leave. This is obviously the same most places, but people do think BA is different, which it isn't.
One guy was recently told when asking a manager about career progression, and what the company thought about it? To which the reply was. 'Guys have already left for EK recently, so if that's what people want to do, that's what people should do' ...

What ever your decision, good luck

Hi Daneflyer,

If I'm honest, as very junior pilot on one of the most senior fleets, even I'm able to get a weekend off here and there... and no, that's not from (seeded)blind lines or leave, that's from a trip line. Yes, sure, I work weekends but again this comes down to what you want for lifestyle... it suits me down to the ground to be at home during the week to see my wife (she works 9-5 in an office)... going away at the weekends is actually not too bad.

Everything else you mention though... spot on. People need to know all the facts before they apply so that they don't feel disillusioned in any way, shape or form. I know this much for sure... I wouldn't want to go back working for easyJet, it just wouldn't suit my lifestyle... and there in lies the rub.

Requirements
 

Application states A320 500hr minimum; I won't have this at the time of applying however will do by the start date of Jan '15, possibly by the sim assessment if this summer proves to be as busy as last.

Is it worth applying? Don't want to put a black mark for any future applications because "the candidate can't read the requirements". Thanks!