"I, and everyone I know, refuse to speak to flight crew unless they speak to me. They get what they are entitled to from the tech trolley and nothing else, I NEVER go out with them down route". Quote from a Eurofleet cabin crew member that I was chatting to recently. That's what you're up against I'm afraid - these folks have long memories it seems.

Yes I do! But I ignore all the **** and rumour, and have worked elsewhere, where BA comes out on top, for me! Living in the BA bubble, you forget the realities of outside sometimes. I have no regrets. What people miss with the stagnation at BA, is that although people are now going to 65, many won't retain their medicals that far! Bid line won't disappear, it will change, but is the current bid line incumbent the best solution for lifestyle or is there a better version? I put my faith in those that represent me from BALPA, and will vote accordingly.

My career at BA will be more interesting and varied over the next 28 years, than had I had stayed at EasyJet. It's not all about the money and pension, at EasyJet you'll probably by dead at 66, then what?

Thompson and Thomas Cook are struggling companies in the current airline and travel industry, and having worked for a struggling airline once before, I'd rather give that a miss thank you. There is little threat of losing one's job at BA, and we aren't about to sign onto another company that is short haul. According to management we are competitive from a cost base, other areas have the spotlight on them.

As has been said above, apply, jump through the hoops and then make the decision when the phone call comes.

I always have a pleasant time down route, yes some crew don't come out, but who cares! 'Oneteam' which is part of the review may change this, and those people who spout this rubbish of 'talking to me first' are in the minority and not worth socialising with anyway!

Personally very much yes, but I'm senior'ish on a Longhaul Fleet. Short hauler might quite understandably give you a different answer.


Al M

"these folks have long memories it seems."

Well Eurofleet are under a bit of pressure from management at the moment so needless to say I expect the gripes aimed at pilots will go on from that quarter for a while.

Across the crews there are some who will never come to terms with past events and then again others who just want to get on with life and are good company on and off the aircraft. Usually with a Long haul crew you can filter out/ignore any embittered individuals and still be left with a reasonable number to socialise with.

Those with crystal balls, :rolleyes: it could all change in that time, I'd say that is length of time for long haul command, that's all some want. Command isn't the be all and end all at BA. It's not why I joined.

I dont think Thomson are struggling to be quite frank. According to the 25 or so ex colleagues of mine that have joined recently they are actually doing quite well.

However the charter industry is fickle so I do see your point.

Someone made a point about Norwegian using the 787 out of LGW and how it might be a threat to long haul at BA. I think the 787 for Norwegian is only in LGW to get the short haul name known.

The major expansion for Norwegian will be short haul out of LGW.

I still think BA is the safest bet in town and if your under the age of 27 the best one as well.

What a pity us Boeing guys arent getting a look in this time.

And a good chance that will remain the case I'm afraid :{

With both "junior / SH" fleets now Airbus, stagnation, and the SH "lifestyle" I doubt BA will recruit other than onto the Airbus. Unless the supply of suitable Airbus rated pilots dries up, not sure we'd look elsewhere?

NoD

So where on earth are BA going to find a number of young A320 FOs to fill these positions?

It has to be a potential option for any FO rated on the A320 series

It does look, to the uninitiated, that DEP recruitment for BA does look likely to be SH A320 for the forseeable future

It is however positive news, hopefully for all. And if not successful at BA, hopefully then it does provide opportunities at the Airlines that have lost FOs to BA for pilots from all the career streams. The operators further down the pecking order will have to find replacement pilots to operate their own flights

Hopefully positive news for all quarters, historically a legacy carrier is usually good news for all. Best of british to all those thinking of applying and those not sure, my advice, go for it anyway see how it develops.

"So where on earth are BA going to find a number of young A320 FOs to fill these positions?"

easyJet, Wizz Air, Aer Lingus, Vueling, Thomas Cook.......

In answer to your question. Any of the above, but mainly easyJet.

Three Lions,

The BA recruitment drive won't open up doors at the other end of the spectrum, as you say, because those doors are closed due to Cadet only recruitment from CTC.

John Smith,

20 years to Command in BA, 20 years to Command in TCX.

I'd have been in TCX 13 years this year if I'd have stayed and I'd be about 200 places away from my upgrade still. They just demoted skippers didn't they? Maybe about 225 away then.

BA is a better bet.

Superpilot, totally agree. I love it how people talk as if time to command is some massive issue. Ok for some people and some airlines it is. But let's face it, as a BA SFO (as it stands of course) you are hardly on the financial breadline.

Easyjet is a huge company so even if 10% are interested in BA it's enough to cover their recruitment. There will be a sizeable pot of people in easyjet who want to advance to a company which is not low cost and has potential for some variation in fleets/operation. The easyjet guys alone will be able to fill BA if nobody else applied in my opinion. I only know a few guys at easy, all under 29 and all applying. Doesn't hurt to apply and if under 30 it's financially more or less the same except BA gives you options with your life once you get a few years under your belt.

Also as mentioned before Aer Lingus closing LGW base so potentially a few airbus guys there wishing to stay in the south east.

Good news for airbus pilots but for us boeing guys I see absolutely nothing for us in Europe bar the odd vacancy at thomson where options to move between fleets are nothing like BA. Personally the fleet and lifestyle options in BA can't be beaten in Europe unless you speak German or Dutch:}

Widebdy I know it's possibly not the point that you're trying to make but, although BA will clearly take a large part of their intake from easyJet, they do like a mix and it won't be in isolation.

It'll be a huge draw. When I was assessed in 2011, three out of the six in my group were from EZY. I met a girl who, on the day, had been trough the sim; she was from EZY. When I did my sim my partner was from..yeah, you guessed it. I'd say BA are pretty happy with ex easyjet guys. It is one of the biggest bus operators in Europe so numbers quantify.

I will also add that there were one or two in that group who believed they were BA pilots in waiting. Some folk still regard it as the be all and end all. You can't discard that factor, regardless of what is said here.

Hello All,

I was just wondering what people's views are on whether BA may open DEP for the 777. Like is it a likely occurence or is it so remote for the next coming 5 or so years you wouldn't even consider preparing for it with the mass short haul recruitment planned. I'm not entirely sure on when the last time BA did this but think it was about 7 yrs ago. It would seem that future long haul crewing requirements are going to be met by guys on the A320 within BA and few if any to "outsiders" so to speak.
The site at the moment for the DEP states clearly that it's only for A320 and from reading on here I get the impression that even with an A320 TR you're at a huge disadvantage if you've now gone onto the 777 or any other aircraft and so aren't current on it. I'm considering a move home in the coming years but as you may have guessed I would really like to remain on the 777. Please don't berate me, i'm aware beggars can't be choosers but i'm just interested in the likelihood of me getting my break. I'm not bothered about command for the time being either.

Thank you to all who help !

john_smith, I'm a SFO for EZY and I can tell you that almost everyone I know is applying for the job.

All the new guys on the SO scale with more than 500 hours will apply.

Most of the brits that are in Europe following their European exodus to escape flexicrew will apply.

I'm sure almost every single LIS FO will apply after speaking to them and sensing their morale.

The guys who'll think twice about it will be the ones who are in the command process, even then a few of them will apply as well.

I believe that you can easily find everyone for this intake from easyjet provided they pass the assessments.

And I say again, it won't be in isolation. If an airbus operator from another airline passes all the requirements and performs well at selection he (or she!) will be offered a position, regardless of whether they are employed by easyJet or not. Naturally as a demographic there will be more successful people from easyJet than anywhere else because they are the largest A320 (A319) operator in Europe. It's not rocket science.

It's a bit like the last intake at Thomson. The majority of new joiners were Ryanair. That doesn't mean they have any preference for Ryanair guys it just means a lot of the applications came from that source. Incidentally someone mentioned earlier that there isn't much chance for change of fleets etc at Thomson. Not true apparently. A few ex colleagues told me that from joining on the 737 you could expect a shot at the 787 in as little as three to four years.

Anyway going back to the earlier point I think the same would apply to BA and Easyjet applicants. Most will come from Easy and most that are successful will be Easyjet simply because that's were the majority of applications will come from.

Can i ask people's opinions on whether BA might consider recruiting dep to the 777 or any long haul for that matter. I'm not being fussy but for those flying the 777 in the m.e, going back to fly the a320 will be difficult as you're not current despite having flown it in the past putting you at a disadvantage at selection, according to most. I'm not too bothered about command, just want to come home. From here I take it it's likely all future long haul requirements will be fed by shorthaul guys. Not good news for long haulers looking to come home on the boeing then :uhoh:

I'm not in a position to apply for this, but if I ever am in the future, I will be over 30. Why is a BA application only seen as worthwhile if you're "under 30" to quote many posters, or even "27 or under" to quote another more specific poster?

I can do the maths of maximum likely retirement age vs. 34-year pay scale, but is that the only thing people are referring to?

Good news for all then. Observation as an easy captain. If you're mid to late 20's apply to BA.

If easy keep their more mature FO's and those who really want to work for us, and maybe recruit more older, experienced pilots who hopefully will stay; there wont be the need for this revolving door of cadets. Of course there is still the initial pain of lower pay but if you want to join easy and can look further ahead it's good.

Good luck to all - whichever direction you're travelling.

Eh????

If half a billion profit is struggling I'd love to see your idea of success!! Get out Of your BA bubble and look around. TOM is hugely successful and rewards us with the second best remuneration in the UK and arguable the best conditions... and its pretty mandatory to come out for beers downroute as one crew!!

Sorry for interrupting your back slapping competition.

No, it's not just the pay, it's the fact that given the current rate of progression,and the fact that the first tranche of FPPs are already on the seniority list it will take a long time for the DEPs to get a command and/or get a Long Haul seat. Any older DEPS joining in the next few years need to be aware that if the current P&P system or something like it stays in place they could quite possibly "time out" before achieving a Status/Fleet change.

GM

I think, notwithstanding hours, knowledge and ability there is a right time to get a command.

You need to be of a certain minimum age commensurate with maturity to give authority and confidence to your crew, handling partners and passengers. So depending on the individual and aircraft type earliest age would be late 20's to early 30's. Time to learn the aircraft and job properly can be, say, 5-10 years so after that time you're ready and hungry for the command. Unless you're constantly being challenged with new routes or fleets you can become stagnant in the RH and fall into a 'FO mentallity' with not thinking about the wider issues of the job.

If you join an airline in your 30's with a 15-20 yr wait for a command slot you'll most likely be 50+ before you get the chance at an upgrade. It's a know fact that changing/learning is more difficult at that age. Combine that with the fact you have been in the RH seat for a long time it becomes an uphill slog.

Most people aspire to a command. If you don't and are happy with your lot as a 'professional' FO there's not a problem with whoever you work for.

Guys just to give another prospective here, forgetting about command for a minute (which no matter what anybody says on here, is a very important step in a pilot's career) even only considering money and bases, by no means this is the best job as someone is suggesting. Best option in the UK, possibly.

When talking about some of the other companies you are forgetting about base options and local contracts which make a HUGE difference in money, conditions, schedule, lifestyle depending on where you are.

BA is a fantastic airline I think, with a great fleet and destinations, but we have to be honest and realise that no legacy is what it used to be 20 years ago. So someone joining now should be very aware, to avoid becoming a gold member of that moaning club which we all know too well.

Friends on Shorthaul tell me it's pretty much like the old days ..... With the ex BMi guys!!! Mix in a few ex EZJ and things could be looking a little more sociable.

As I understand it, just over 100 pilots will be recruited this year and just under 200 next year. This will include the cadets who number 70-80 this year and 60-70 next year. These cadets are the ones recruited over the last few years.

Regards

Window for applications closes today.

All the best

Hello all,

An interesting thread with a range of opinions offered. In the end, I decided to apply. I see there is little to be lost by applying and the chances are I will be unsuccessful anyway given the stiff competition there is likely to be.

However, is someone able to shed some light on the BA pay scales (or point me in the right direction) so I can do my own due diligence from a financial perspective? Though, personally, that isn't the most important factor if I were in the position of being offered a job, it does form part of the picture.

Are these numbers on PPJN accurate, especially with regard to the top and bottoms of the scales for both FO and Capt? British Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements.

Hi WC,

Yes those figures on ppjn are accurate.

The flying allowances have changed recently. About half of the total is now fixed if you fly or not. About £7700pa gross for LH and about £6500 SH.

The other half is variable and depends on flying. So add a total of about £16,000 gross pa to your basic.

You'll be on SH for about 6 years currently before having the seniority to get onto LH. With the current SH review and focus on competing better with the like of easyjet Ts and Cs will drop further and time to LH may increase. That said it's still a great place to be In my opinion.

I can only echo the part I underlined... It's sometime worrying hearing current BA pilots implying the goal posts have moved, and when they joined they were told "X years to Command, Y years to LH" and it did not happen :{

Moves to LH and/or LHS are essentially seniority and retirement driven. When you have some SH Capts bidding to RHS LH already, I leave the applicant to judge what effect the 2-3 "agreement" "business" reviews currently going on might have :oh: (1 clue is that "SH" appears in 2 of the savings / review items)

The only thing we can be certain of re movement in BA is that nobody knows for sure. As a SHW myself I had a very pessimistic view of when I'd get the opportunity to move but an email from our P&P guys left me way more optimistic. There are rumours of a higher than predicted retiral rate next year, a high number of ex-BMI guys aren't sticking around, the 55-65 bubble is bursting in the next 2-3 years, a shed load more Triples and the 350 (hopefully!) which will require Airbus recency all means that the opportunity to move MAY not be too far away. It's not unusual for guys to see out their 5-yr engagement freeze anyway, so I don't actually think things are much worse than they would be normally. The wait probably feels a lot longer just now to most SH guys due to current circumstances. A little birdie also tells me pilots aren't the target in the upcoming Review. Personally, I think it's not great at the moment but things should improve.

Cattivo
How big is your shed?:rolleyes:

Cattivo

Your post echos my point, and the caution needed by new joiners. When we launch a DEP recruitment campaign (as we seem about to do - the current one is not a campaign but crisis (mis)management), it indicates movement for everybody. Hence why you simultaneously see things looking up for the SH escape rope :ok:

The point the applicants need to judge however is "what" the situation will be like in min 5 years time, yet gamble on the decision today. If the SH review / round 2 of bmi / WC talks don't solve the "SH is unprofitable" mantra of BA/IAG, and we see Vueling coming in to LHR, then the new entrants will be bottom of the BA list forever. Much as IB pilots were for some time, with zero prospects IIRC? (albeit I believe things are changed there now...)

Summary: Using todays "time to command" "time to LH" is a poor basis for serious career decisions. When I joined BA (1996), time to SH Command was 21yrs. But access to seniority lists etc. meant for those joining then, I calculated likely 7-8yrs, and in fact became nearer 5 for some. All I can urge prospective joiners is to really research the issue... and a pPrune thread is not going to get you that info ;)

I watched A Very British Airline last night.

Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?

Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!

I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).

'I watched A Very British Airline last night.

Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?

Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!

I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).'


Got your PFO then? :rolleyes:

Not yet.. I keep my lipstick topped up and my tights ladder free!

Good luck guys and girls..

:):)