This thread is BA DIRECT ENTRY PILOT...Though everyone is welcome here, please take your cadet bickering to the appropriate section.:ok:

If it is your ambition to fly for BA, to fly long haul, or to fly the flag, then BA is the place to be and I wish you all the luck in applying.

Don't leave easyJet because it is such hard work. If you think five earlies are though, then crossing twelve time zones a week will definitely kill you. If you moan about all those night stops in LGW, well...you ain't seen nothing yet!

Don't leave easyJet for a better career. Career wise in BA you'll be in the same position as you are now, only 10-15 years later, flying the same short haul from the same left seat, in the same aircraft, through the same European skies. You'll be much older though.

What a very strange comment!

Why? Care to explain? I think I very clearly made my point.

This is the classic quote of someone who has never done Long Haul. The work is very 'person' dependent, some like it (me) some find it a bit tough. Adequate provision is made down route for rest and recuperation in some fantastic hotels in some fantastic locations. The difference being that the bidding system allows you to choose your destinations thus avoiding UK-USA-Uk then UK-NRT-UK which can be a killer! EASA regs are also tightening up on these patterns as the can be fatiguing.

If you don't like night stops then don't bid for them. It will take a year or two to get to a position where you can take only day trips but it does come. As for Gatwick they don't night stop any more. Only 3 on the route structure now as I seem to remember and they are quite popular.

Is an odd comment as, generally, any workforce is mobile for the prospect of improving their career paths and choices. If you want to fly the same patterns in the same aircraft to the same destinations there and back for 45 years then please enjoy. If you want variety then perhaps the Easy Jet career path is not for you.

Well into the procurement of A380's, 787's and awaiting the A350. Rumours of rotating the aging 777-200 to 777X in the future. Operating profits on track to cover capital investments. Workforce expectations for 'costs flat' being maintained. (for how long is anyones guess but that goes for any company)

4000+ pilots now, you will get a cross section of society in that despite the best efforts of HR. There is historical evidence that shows that those who want to operate outside of the law in their private lives are extremely adept at doing so and very good at hiding it.

The ground checks is a tricky one, pressure from managers to reduce turnaround times at Heathrow led to the cowl checks moving from a walkround item ( one that was already and still is done by most flight crew) to a counter signed engineering function. The engineers made a sad mistake that day.

Operating out of the sand pit is highly efficient for the Gulf Carriers. They call the shots, they run the slots and they supply the fuel. Once operating a 'hub' out of LHR they will be as constrained by the lunacy of the UK system at Heathrow as the rest of us. They generally won't be able to tanker return fuel into LHR and they will have to compete for slots and stands like the rest of us.

99% of that has disappeared. You needed to follow what was happening behind the headlines to appreciate the actions taken by some. It was not as black and white as many would have you believe. Due to that the relations between the crews and the flight crews has been on the up for a long time and I for one would say that it is a very pleasant place to work at the moment.

A long post but summed up by saying that it is always easier to stay where you feel safe and established. Changing employer in our industry is a difficult and time consuming affair. BA is definitely not for everyone but it is a great place to work despite the occasional 'wart'. All companies have them.

BA intends to grow its presence at Heathrow even if only through SH to LH slot transfer. The routes are great, the hotels are lovely, the people are (barring the occasional one or two) fantastic, well trained and competent.

Make your choice but don't only ever read one side of the story. :ok:

Your point is, don't leave easyjet because you think BA will be a better career. (I'm guessing because you think it won't be).

JB0007 meanwhile has not interpreted your quote in the same way and has assumed a very literal meaning. "Don't leave X for a better career" taken in isolation and without the subtext would be a strange comment to make. Why would anyone not want a better career if it was on offer?

That must be why the waiting list for long haul is so short then right? Why just about everyone aspires eventually to a long haul command?

It's a personal thing and choice based on personal circumstance, as is this job generally, and just IMHO, BA has so much to offer a UK based pilot, at whatever stage/age, I simply wouldn't blame anyone having a very serious look at it and don't believe UK based pilots can't see that! My only comment with regards to PENKO's statement! Those I know from within, all joiners within the last few years - 1 on the B763 and 1 on the B744 - couldn't be happier.

I have a 1000 hours wide-body, and found my world-wide long haul inspiring, fun and far less tiring than any multi-sector day! Very happy to have experienced it...

As I say, it's personal and whatever drives you, be it money, lifestyle or LHS, but big picture stuff - BA is still a good choice and very best of luck to those who wish to apply.

Top post Wirbelsturm, I agree with everything you say! I feel there is a little justification from those who failed or have never gone for BA selection here, as to why you shouldn't join. It's a little pants at the mo on short haul, was fine a year ago, due to numbers primarily, which is why DEP recruitment is happening! IMHO

Northern Storm, thanks for pointing out how my comment re careers can be misunderstood. If I was at the start of my career and 15 years younger, I would grasp the opportunity to apply for a FO position within BA with both hands!

For an experienced captain, it is a different proposition, especially one based in one of easyJet's more exotic bases.

The DEP recruitment should be advertised in the next couple of days. Good luck

Let's hope the web server and bandwidth holds up :}

I don't; and my wife didn't at the school where she taught either.

"Just an aside - when it has been demonstrably shown that the likes of paedophiles and murderers can cartwheel through the BA hoops and slip through the net."

"By contrast Monarch still (as I write) do not simcheck or extend the interview past a casual chat on flying history and their motivation to join the company."

I know that my reply is off topic, but please bear with me.

I am defending BA here.

Monarch had an FO, who was jailed for 6 1/2 years in about 2006 for paedophilia and child attempted rape.

How did that interview go? What was his motivation to join Monarch? To be near his home in Northants in order to carry on his filthy predilection.

And, you wonder, how do I finish this reply? Well, I could tell you that before he fooled Monarch, he was a pilot at easyJet. And before that, a cadet at jmc Airlines, via CTC.

So, you see, not everything is as simple as it seems.

Anyone, and I do mean anyone, can slip through several nets.

The merits of BA vs EZY are right for each individual to consider. Certainly if you want to fly from a regional airfield, EZY may be a much better option.

In reality, BA will always attract more candidates than it can deal with, which must reflect that it's still one of the best options, especially for those living in the SE.

Out of interest, will not having A levels preclude someone from being invited for assessment regardless of whether or not one may have 1500+ hours on type?

Ta!

Don't know about A levels but I do remember once sitting beside a co-pilot who went to a comprehensive school.

When I told Scottish Centre of this "phenomenom" the controller replied that he, too, had been to a comprehensive school.

I let the co-pilot do the comms for the day (and the flying) whilst I sat and sulked!!

Is this derigeur for the National Airline these days!!!

I wouldn't let it stop you applying - it's the least of your worries!!!!

Don't wear brown shoes with a blue suit, as a captain once told me.

Very amusing finncapt.

Basil

I'm sure we probably know each other but that is by the by.

I often wondered how it would go down in the pub (I don't play golf) if I say I'm a retired BA captain.

Oh dear we don't really have pubs here in Finland - they are places where vast quantities of alcohol are consumed and people fall over - bit like the six o'clock swill.

But these young whippersnappers wouldn't know aabout that.

Too many red wines, I better stop!!

"de rigueur" is two words. Standards chaps!

Thanks Superpilot,very helpful:yuk:

and sometimes it has nothing to do with flying!

Britons face losing homes in Cyprus to pay builders? debts | Property | News | Daily Express

Superpilot: BA CC have always been "posh". Back in the day they were the debs who didn't get snatched up at the first coming out ball by chinless wonders from my old school. So they went on to try and snare a Nigel. It's not a bad tactic I suppose.

So skint, that the poor chap who is losing his Cyprus "bolt hole" seems to still be wearing his pilot shirt in retirement.

NR

Nah, it hasn't got pockets!!

If you knew the chap, as I do, you wouldn't say that.

He is one of the least pretentious blokes I know.

FinnCapt,

Good spot!

Glad to hear he's a nice fellow. As a foreign property owner myself, I wholeheartedly agree with his sentiment that it must be extraordinarily stressful to feel so conned.

Thread creep.......... To get back on topic, DEP recruitment will start soon for A320 rated pilots. I know it is frustrating if you have experience on a different type but market forces dictate type rated pilots as they can undertake a "short course" adapting to BA SOP's and get on line quicker thus earning money for the company. I don't agree with this policy but there it is.

As for the merits of joining BA I think your age determines whether it is a lucrative long term proposition. Under 28? It's a no brainer. Realistically, a command by your early 40's will close the financial career earnings gap to easyjet in the long term. 28-35? Then I would only choose BA for lifestyle and control rather than money. Over 35? Easyjet would be my choice, as you will earn more over the course of a career, gain command experience quickly while you still have the mental capacity to pass the course and benefit from a fixed work pattern which becomes important as you get older.

BA is still a great place to work but the gap to other airlines is closing rapidly and LHR is a tedious place to operate an Aircraft from.

Matzpenetration assuming BALPA call the company's bluff and IAG respond by farming out S/H to Vueling or what have you, what would be the point in joining a fleet that is staring potential obliteration in the face?

Yes it may well just be a great ruse to wangle a pay cut. Many operational fixes are required such as greater use of fixed links etc etc. But all of that aside, a threat still exists, albeit there are now only 6/5/whatever sounds scarier weeks to sort it.

if you join us bring your tin hat as you will be under constant attack. If you have a sleeping bag that would be good to because we won't have time to go home.

Unless this company changes the way it is run and gets rid of the silo mentality of top heavy departments don't worry to much about where you may get to on PP34 because the company won't even be around.

Sorry if it sounds doom and gloom but moral on the line is rock bottom. More to the point when does DEP to easy open?

It's open, and it's a contract position that is on offer, apply via PARC, if you get rejected expect zero feedback

So looking at this sensibly, BA are looking to hire between 100-150 pilots by this time next year. That's the number of pilots a loco normally hires for 10-15 new frames. If BA know what's around the corner (collapse of S/H, Spewling taking over etc), would they really go through the time and cost associated with hiring that many new pilots only to then deal with the mammoth ball-ache 3-5 years down the line? I mean, it's not like they are hiring contractors through an agency that provides pilots to The IAG group, or is it?

Superpilot, thanks but as frustrated as I am right now I don't think a parc contract would tempt me, but DEP SFO......I don't think any of us really believe that IAG, BA are going to pull the plug on short haul. It's the same threat which is always used. During the bmi take over it was agree to x or IAG will set bmi up as a loco out of heathrow (BA express etc etc) and all the growth will be there and you will be left to stagnate. Now it's a case of you must reduce costs, increase productivity etc etc or else IAG won't approve investment into short haul and Vueling will be the area of growth. IAG are not going to risk harming its most profitable brand which has just delivered the 4th best results in its history and is on track with its 5 year plan. All investors want more more more and IAG will be pushing BA management to deliver. In turn they are leaning on us.

I don't think you will find a single pilot who would say no, we are not prepared to agree to changes to strengthen our business. But what you will find is all of us saying we need to change how we work, improve productivity through structural changes throughout the business. Not the usual example of poor leadership of leaving the difficult tasks alone and targeting the pilot work force with a cut in terms.

Back to the thread

The only reason BA need more pilots and are opening DEP is they simply got their numbers wrong. How? I don't know but I guess it's all to do with new aircraft, delayed deliveries, delays to retirement of 767, the biggest flying program ever. I think there has been uptake of part time contracts and also a reduction in people doing overtime.

A lot of guys in the very recently abolished DEP holding pool (we are talking less than a year here for some folk) predicted this as being the case. Because it was also the case back in 2008. I'm a firm believer that quite a few in pilot recruitment regarded it as being the case too. So another DEP campaign, more time and money. And then what? A job, a hold pool position, no job? Only Airbus pilots are good enough when in times previously it was the person not the rating that was good enough (I know the last campaign was mostly type streamed). And don't give me the training risk, shortened bridge course argument. BA transfer it's own crew from Boeing to Airbus back to Boeing regularly. Plus they still recruit military pilots with zero commercial experience plus FPP guys with diddly squat. Who really decides things in BA? People with actual operational or training experience? I doubt that. IAG want all the 'leanness' of a modern day airline but I reckon the ivory towers structure of a government owned institution still exists in places.

The build a bridge, suduko type recruitment is a load of tosh IMHO. Experienced guys should be a interview, quick sim and minimal conversion course. Job done

Who decides things? Accountants and the city boys saying they will take their money elsewhere if the don't get more more more I assume

I wanted to at least read it, but can't find the offer. Taken down already ?

Nobody. They are told what/when to do by Madrid :=

And if you don't like it, don't apply. BA won't give a stuff of your view when it always gets an oversupply.

FANS is right, BA will not change until they cannot get enough suitably qualified people that can jump through the hoops that BA want. It may not be quite the holy grail that it once was, but BA are never short of applicants. Until they are short of applicants or the turn over is such that they cannot cover flights BA will not change and if you don't like it then build a career elsewhere.

Are there any murmurings of what is expected from the SH review and when this is likely to take place?

The management are pushing for fundamental changes across all of Flight Ops at the moment. I think it's pretty much guaranteed that there are going to be significant changes in the rostering agreement (Bidline) and as far as the Short Haul review is concerned a tremendous amount of unhappiness at the management's demands/thoughts are being displayed by many Flight Crew members on the internal company forum (including some fascinating insights from those who joined BA after working for a certain LoCo). I think anyone currently thinking of moving to BA from a reasonably rewarded job with stable rosters in another outfit might want to be very thorough with their due diligence.......

We should know about the possible changes to rostering by the end of June, can't give a date for the Short Haul review......

What's your point?