British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

[ClearenceClarence]

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

[glidehigh]

Originally Posted by ClearenceClarence

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

I was in exactly your position when i joined. Same age, single, and wanted to get closer to home. First few years were far more enjoyable, varied and exciting than i had expected. You would get that period of being low seniority out the way at a point in life with minimal commitments, knowing that once the commitments come along, you will be higher up the seniority ladder.

For those with commitments, things like part time are open to all, regardless of seniority. Everyone gets 6 leave/duty free weeks per year of around 10 days at a time. Bottom of the list on the 777 will give plenty of shorter 3 day trips, but will also give some longer trips as others have outlined. It's certainly the long game with a seniority based airline.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by ClearenceClarence

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

In your situation & at your age I wouldn't worry about being junior. Not a disaster given your current lifestyle and by the time other things come around you'll be more senior. Don't forget the pay off does come along eventually. Once you are senior life is brilliant.

The money perspective is another matter altogether and I can understand why that might prompt some careful soul searching.

[tecnamflyer]

Not in a too dissimilar situation from the above posters

Just under 1300 relevant time at a LOCO, so still 200 short for the mainline long haul application. No A320 time, so can't apply for DEP A320.

Is it worth applying yet to get the ball rolling, or will it be rejected?

I'm concerned that by the time I get 200 more hrs, they'll have closed the hiring window, I know its been open for a while. I will be a commuter to London, for that reason I've not applied for Euroflier (to the demise of a potential seniority number I understand :/ )

[sillyworm]

Hi everyone!
here is my scenario…… I’m 33 have a young family , working at a holiday airline which could potentially see me with a command within a year or 2 .
I want a better quality of life later on in my career as I basically have 30 years ahead of me .

Am I being silly applying for LH BA ( I have done LH before for a few years prior) ?
My fleet of choice would be 380 , how likely is that to happen ?

I am really really on the fence with this !!!!!

It would take me along time to get the same figures of command pay , but is that the case ? As I have heard on the grape vine that LH FO can earn some good cash ?

I appreciate that people have different views but some scenarios would be greatly appreciated!

[Lew747]

I echo the exact same as the above post (without the family). 33, command on the horizon. I’m totally on the fence whilst awaiting DEP position (currently swimming in the pool). Wanting long haul.

Very unsure of what to do!

[R T Jones]

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

[GS-Alpha]

I believe some 380 DEPs are expected this year, but how many, or whether they’ve all been given their offers already, I do not know.

It is very difficult for anyone to advise whether jumping from one airline to another is the right thing for the individual to do. I personally do not think BA has been the ‘be all and end all’ for a very long time, but people still keep joining, and I have never worked for another airline so what do I know? That being said, if you are ever going to join BA, sooner is almost always better than later. If you have left it until later, it is practically guaranteed you will regret it for a period of time, as the bottom of the seniority list on any fleet is not that much fun. Some fleets have better junior lifestyles than others, and you’ll stay junior for differing periods of time on the different fleets too. That’s before you even consider the financial side of things.

[sillyworm]

Some interesting replies , as a year 1 LH FO what would the take home pay look like ?
Do you get good allowances etc…

[RexBanner]

Originally Posted by sillyworm

Hi everyone!
here is my scenario…… I’m 33 have a young family , working at a holiday airline which could potentially see me with a command within a year or 2 .
I want a better quality of life later on in my career as I basically have 30 years ahead of me .

Am I being silly applying for LH BA ( I have done LH before for a few years prior) ?
My fleet of choice would be 380 , how likely is that to happen ?

I am really really on the fence with this !!!!!

It would take me along time to get the same figures of command pay , but is that the case ? As I have heard on the grape vine that LH FO can earn some good cash ?

I appreciate that people have different views but some scenarios would be greatly appreciated!

check your PMs

[ClearenceClarence]

Is anyone able to comment on training capacity at the moment for the B777? Are there likely to be delays for sim and line training?

[Flyby444]

Originally Posted by RexBanner

check your PMs

Hi, I’m in a very similar position. Is there some info you can provide me with also? Thanks

[RexBanner]

Just to open it up to more people the A380 is a great fleet but the problem with it is its extremely US centric post COVID. Yes we’ve got SIN back and there’s JNB but as junior pilots you won’t be seeing many of those. That leaves DXB (winter seasonal) but otherwise welcome to taking out a small mortgage to eat when down route. You won’t see much change out of $35 for breakfast anywhere and that’s just one meal of the day. We get free breakfast in MIA but even there you’re expected to tip, oh and there’s a lounge at the hotel in IAD but otherwise Reston is a soul crushingly dull place as alluded to above. I wouldn’t exactly say it’s a deal breaker but it does certainly add up over the course of the month, particularly as the allowances aren’t exceptionally generous and haven’t kept pace with just how expensive the US is nowadays.

[GS-Alpha]

In my opinion, the 380 is hands down the best fleet to be junior on in BA by a country mile.

[RexBanner]

100% agree. But you are going to be spending more down route than on other fleets which becomes relevant if finances are a major consideration to you. That is also beyond dispute in my humble opinion.

[byrondaf]

Originally Posted by R T Jones

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

RT, myself and a good mate of mine (both same age as you) had this exact discussion about leaving easy for BA. We even had a chat about you going and weighed up all the pro's and cons. I think for us, going 75% in a couple of years is the only way we'll make it to the end of our careers as we're not prepared to take the risk. For me starting a family in the next couple of years was also a dealbreaker. I hope it works out for you and at least gain more control of your life as your seniority increases, we've resigned ourselves to the lottery of preferential bidding and working less to cope. I'll watch this space to find out if you feel like you made the right choice in a few years! You were a decent skipper to fly with, wish you all the best.

[Potatos_69]

Originally Posted by R T Jones

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

the top pay point you’ll get to is 29, on shorthaul including standard pension that’s 240k with the new pay deal (obviously we hope it improves with inflation in the future!) 270k for LH captain.

your first year as a captain PP2 should give you 144k including pension.

both of those are for full time. And while you are SH P1you will spend a good chunk of your career at the bottom of the seniority list which is not ideal for work life balance (75% PT seems to be the cure to work life balance a bit however, and having kids puts you in fairly good stead to get it in time)

40 mins to Heathrow makes doing all the reserves you’ll end up getting more liveable however!

[Busdriver01]

Originally Posted by Potatos_69

including standard pension that’s 240k

Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respond, when asked 'how much do you earn', with a number that included their pension.

[JM926]

Originally Posted by Busdriver01

Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respon when asked 'how much do you earn' with a number that included their pension.

completely agree. Guys I know were up in arms when they read the EZY deal which was published a short while ago-saying how we needed a much better pay rise. Sure, everyone wants more money, who doesn’t, but they didn’t seem to grasp that the only reason they were so up in arms was that the FY24 salary in ezy included the company pension contribution. To compare apples with apples you’d need to add on our company pension contribution to our salary. Why you’d ever do that is beyond me!

[FACoff]

Originally Posted by JM926

completely agree. Guys I know were up in arms when they read the EZY deal which was published a short while ago-saying how we needed a much better pay rise. Sure, everyone wants more money, who doesn’t, but they didn’t seem to grasp that the only reason they were so up in arms was that the FY24 salary in ezy included the company pension contribution. To compare apples with apples you’d need to add on our company pension contribution to our salary. Why you’d ever do that is beyond me!

Personally I understand why they do it because while BA basic pay is generally lower, a big chunk of the overall package is in the pension contributions which would otherwise go ignored if simply comparing basic salary and allowances.

By the same logic an EZY skipper could put 20% of his/her salary into their pension and then claim their salary was 20% less than it is. When the disparity in contributions is so high between EZY and BA (7% vs 15%), you do need to factor it in somehow when comparing the two.

The BA pension is obviously good, but would I rather have it in the basic salary so I could do with it what I please? Yes.
Do we think EZY would be offering the numbers they are if they too had a 15% pension? No.