British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
But the standard way of describing all terms and conditions in every other job on the planet (and until recently, aviation) was to state salary + allowances + % pension contribution. You know if its a good pension contribution from the % alone. To try and say that easyJet captains are paid 200k after this new pay deal, for example, is to deliberately try and bamboozle people with a huge number, depsite the fact the number is significantly less. Once you've seen the big number, you can't get it out of your mind even when told 'actually take 30k off that number for what they're actually seeing as a gross salary'
But the standard way of describing all terms and conditions in every other job on the planet (and until recently, aviation) was to state salary + allowances + % pension contribution. You know if its a good pension contribution from the % alone. To try and say that easyJet captains are paid 200k after this new pay deal, for example, is to deliberately try and bamboozle people with a huge number, depsite the fact the number is significantly less. Once you've seen the big number, you can't get it out of your mind even when told 'actually take 30k off that number for what they're actually seeing as a gross salary'
But when comparing against other jobs, which given this is a BA DEP thread, is presumably the purpose of this little side topic, you have to look at the whole package. If the Jet2 brigade chime in and preach the gospel they’ll mention the profit share. Not consolidated salary, but still important as it is a factor in comparing carriers.
A year??? Seriously??? How does that even meet the minimum contribution mandated by UK employment law? That’s so immoral it’s beyond disgusting, but then nothing surprises me from Wizz Air. I stick that into my pension with my own contributions before you even get to company contributions per month!!! Apologies for thread drift.
A year??? Seriously??? How does that even meet the minimum contribution mandated by UK employment law? That’s so immoral it’s beyond disgusting, but then nothing surprises me from Wizz Air. I stick that into my pension with my own contributions before you even get to company contributions per month!!! Apologies for thread drift.
It’s eye opening, millions of people in the uk with ‘normal’ jobs, that’s all they get.
Employer legally has to pay 3% on your qualifying earnings, currently between £6,240 and £50,270. You pay 4%, HMRC grosses up the 4% to either 5%, giving the fabled 8% people talk about. Granted slightly more grossing up if you pay higher tax but that’s the general idea.
That’s it. Any more and your employer is going beyond the legal minimum. Works out to £110 a month maximum contribution, whether you make £50,000 or £150,000.
The average pension pot at retirement is about £50k for those without historic final salary jobs. That’s the reality, and there’s plenty on here who throw that in each year!
Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respond, when asked 'how much do you earn', with a number that included their pension.
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To include the employer pension contributions into the salary figure is sensible I think. Think of it as total remuneration.
only then will you be able to compare job for job.
there are many other factors obviously, including roster, basing, working conditions, opportunities for promotion, etc. mind you, pensions on offer these days are a shadow of what they were. No more final salary guaranteed amounts.
bottom line is to make you’re own arrangements if the company plan is not working out for you / not competitive.
only then will you be able to compare job for job.
there are many other factors obviously, including roster, basing, working conditions, opportunities for promotion, etc. mind you, pensions on offer these days are a shadow of what they were. No more final salary guaranteed amounts.
bottom line is to make you’re own arrangements if the company plan is not working out for you / not competitive.
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Including pension is helpful for consideration of the total gross package (but let's not muddy the waters with gross-ups - the gross total is what we're considering).
But let's remember the old final salaries equated to about 20-25% of salary. My old company were bragging that £8000 (about 6%) for captains was a good pension... for office workers maybe, but for pilots; it really isn't. Less than 10% is below the market rate, and way way below historical norms.
But let's remember the old final salaries equated to about 20-25% of salary. My old company were bragging that £8000 (about 6%) for captains was a good pension... for office workers maybe, but for pilots; it really isn't. Less than 10% is below the market rate, and way way below historical norms.
You have to include the pension when discussing the overall package.
People are getting very excited about being on £200K as a Y12 WUK captain. WUK will put £1300 into the pension for that captain. BA will put in about £22,000.
That extra £20K is enormous.
Take it to the extreme example. Airline X starts giving their pilots £50K a year salary and £8m a year into the pension. I think I’d include that when comparing.
People are getting very excited about being on £200K as a Y12 WUK captain. WUK will put £1300 into the pension for that captain. BA will put in about £22,000.
That extra £20K is enormous.
Take it to the extreme example. Airline X starts giving their pilots £50K a year salary and £8m a year into the pension. I think I’d include that when comparing.
The previous point was just that SH captains at mainline are poorly paid for half their career compared to the other English airlines that operate. I was using Wizz as an example because I can see the pay details for BA, BAEF, and WUK.
PP12 Wizz captain INCLUDING PENSION earns 20 grand a year more than a BA SH captain currently with the new pay deal complete (202k vs 182k). With conditions as they are currently without the pay deal in place for BA at this current date the BA captain is almost 40k worse off even with the pension payments. It takes PP18 with the new pay deal or PP25/26 as things are currently for those total packages including pensions to match. That’s more than half your career until you catch up to the total package of a poor ULC bus company.
A BAEF captain can never even earn as much as any other entity in the uk as they max out at about 165k after 12 years including pension.
This is said as someone who is enjoying life at BA as it’s a far better place to be I think, but there are some things that can be improved to make it more competitive for more mature joiners who’ll never reach the top of the pay scales and sit there for 10 years like most others have had the ability to.
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Small details, but worth to consider.
Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.
Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.
Small details, but worth to consider.
Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.
Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.
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I just look at the actual salary.
Adding the pension as some say is ridiculous.
Do you start adding the tax benefit of doing this as well?
Then look at the tax when you retire etc?
That gets very complicated and so many variables in those scenarios.
Do we start adding overtime in?
Do we add the tax benefits when down route at certain destinations?
With overtime and good trips you can add a fair amount to your pay. I mean even in my first year at BA I had some months with 5 figures before tax and never cracked more than 80 hrs in a month.
Back to BA.
I had the chance to go LHS at the yellow and blue LCC. Decided BA is better. Way more career options. Better PT options and the added 18 weeks unpaid leave per child is handy. I know loads of captains who throw an unpaid leave week in July or August. Ok it’s not guaranteed but overtime and you hardly lose on pay.
And as I have said before. On SH the night curfew is awesome. Anyone living within 1 hr of LHR BA is the best option IMO.
Adding the pension as some say is ridiculous.
Do you start adding the tax benefit of doing this as well?
Then look at the tax when you retire etc?
That gets very complicated and so many variables in those scenarios.
Do we start adding overtime in?
Do we add the tax benefits when down route at certain destinations?
With overtime and good trips you can add a fair amount to your pay. I mean even in my first year at BA I had some months with 5 figures before tax and never cracked more than 80 hrs in a month.
Back to BA.
I had the chance to go LHS at the yellow and blue LCC. Decided BA is better. Way more career options. Better PT options and the added 18 weeks unpaid leave per child is handy. I know loads of captains who throw an unpaid leave week in July or August. Ok it’s not guaranteed but overtime and you hardly lose on pay.
And as I have said before. On SH the night curfew is awesome. Anyone living within 1 hr of LHR BA is the best option IMO.
Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 1st May 2024 at 16:47.
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Hello,
Anyone know if the IR needs to be valid before starting the Type Rating?
I know the Type Rating exam itself classes as a revalidation/renewal, but not sure how BA like to do things?
Will save me a few quid, Cheers.
Anyone know if the IR needs to be valid before starting the Type Rating?
I know the Type Rating exam itself classes as a revalidation/renewal, but not sure how BA like to do things?
Will save me a few quid, Cheers.
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Hi everyone, just wanted to ask whether anyone can provide any information about how long people can expect to remain in the hold pool and which LH fleets are primarily being recruited on?
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You can email the pilot recruitment team for confirmation, but they told me it doesn't. You only need to " have or have held" one for your first type rating, the regulations were subtly ammended in 2019.
Last edited by mrguy; 2nd May 2024 at 21:54.
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RT, myself and a good mate of mine (both same age as you) had this exact discussion about leaving easy for BA. We even had a chat about you going and weighed up all the pro's and cons. I think for us, going 75% in a couple of years is the only way we'll make it to the end of our careers as we're not prepared to take the risk. For me starting a family in the next couple of years was also a dealbreaker. I hope it works out for you and at least gain more control of your life as your seniority increases, we've resigned ourselves to the lottery of preferential bidding and working less to cope. I'll watch this space to find out if you feel like you made the right choice in a few years! You were a decent skipper to fly with, wish you all the best.