Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Reform the U.K. CAA

Old 21st Aug 2021, 16:45
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Louth, England
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reform the U.K. CAA

I am a UK and EASA commercial pilot, flying instructor, aviation business owner, & UAS enthusiast, I trained from April 2019 and have battled through Brexit and Covid, but in the most part I have battled the UK CAA. I know I’m not alone.

I’m writing with one main goal - To try create a political movement and debate that instigates a wholesale reform of the UK CAA.

Prior to starting in Aviation I was a Police officer and worked through some very hard reforms and austerity measures. This was a painful time in policing, but it brought efficiency and innovation.

I have come to realise that the UK CAA are a quango formed in the 1970’s who’s ideology, mission statement and funding strategy do not suit the modern age. Many of these quangos including the National Policing Improvement Agency were “burned” between 2010-2012, but the UK CAA remained.

Examples of how the funding strategy/ideology destroy efficacy and innovation:
Cellama - separate medical system, no joined up thinking, creates silos.
Drone Database - as above, could have been a single record management system that linked to all types of pilots. Way over priced.
EU Return licences - Could have just kept old records and printed a UK FCL licence, instead created a long winded costly process.
Multiple website and customer portal issues and downtime.
We are still flying 1970’s aircraft due to over regulation

These are the things that are holding it and UK aviation back. It has been exposed during the Brexit transition and the pandemic. Many pilots myself included have SOLI’d to other EASA states and found them efficient, helpful and cost effective. My Danish EASA licence cost £77 and was processed in 1 month, my UK licence has cost nearly £1000 and after 11 months and 4 complaints I still don’t have it. There is currently no divergence in regulations between the UK and EU, so there is no excuse.

The UK CAA is one of the only public bodies that are still offering a reduced service, working from home and are utterly overwhelmed even after the 19th of July 21. Organisations like the Police, DVLA, Passport office have adapted to the Pandemic and Brexit maintaining their levels of service. The UK CAA are failing even during a period of decreased demand. There are no excuses.

The UK CAA is busy over regulating UAS (even control line & RC hobby) yet cannot cope with conventional services. It is not focusing on customer service, output and development.

Because the UK CAA has no oversight and Pilots have a small political voice this situation is perpetual. Pilots who speak out and complain about the UK CAA are given a very hard time. It has become totalitarian organisation with no oversight immune to criticism.

The UK CAA problem is affecting commercial and general aviation pilots, UAS pilots, engineers and ATC. It would be great for UK Aviation in the U.K. if it was reformed.

My vision of the reform would be:

Licences and medicals given to an organisation like the dvla and passport office, then regulation given to a government board overseen by DfT. With a watchdog on top of all. A mandate to support & develop modern aviation in the UK.

The UK CAA needs to embrace the opportunities Brexit has generated. The UK could easily become the most important transatlantic aviation hub and leaders in unmanned technology.

Please be a voice, lobby you MP’s!

Reform the U.K. CAAUK CAA is one of the only public bodies that are still offering a reduced service,
8Wheeler is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2021, 08:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You do realise that most of the CAA's work was, until last year, done by EASA. The CAA, and the rest of the UK aviation community were assured by government, MPs and Brexiteers, that we would not be leaving EASA... that is until a few months before we did actually leave. This left the CAA a matter of months to try and recruit, train and build a functioning NAA. Something the UK had not had for over 15 years.
You do not just build it back up again in a year, especially one as difficult as this one has been.
It will get there eventually, but it will never be the world leader it was, that ship has sailed.
TURIN is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2021, 08:34
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 6,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't have a dog in the fight, but in any arguement it helps if you get you facts right

Organisations like the Police, DVLA, Passport office have adapted to the Pandemic and Brexit maintaining their levels of service..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58266532

The UK CAA are failing even during a period of decreased demand. There are no excuses.
Decreased demand? in what areas?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 22nd Aug 2021, 08:40
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Louth, England
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fair point about the DVLA, personally Iíve found them more efficient than the U.K. CAA who take 30 days to reply to an email or months fi process a licence.

There was a recent FOI that went into the U.K. CAA (canít find the figures) resulted in significantly less licences being issued in 2020.
8Wheeler is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:45
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,743
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The last time I visited the Belgrano, licensing was slow and inefficient. Their IT needed an overhaul. It was conducted in a crowded workspace .
So with Covid, I guess they had to empty out that crowded workspace.

Not sure that they are any worse than the DVLA or the passport offices.

As to their pricing, I suspect they have to get all costs back from pilots/ATC etc., without a Government subsidy.
Ancient Observer is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2021, 15:07
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
One word in all of this...accountability. They provide a thoroughly shoddy service and have always done so, and this has always been apparent. Well before Brexit. The turn around times for correspondence is not acceptable in the 21st century. But who in this country has the power to tell them they need to improve? That's what makes this frustrating. The only people they are answerable to are people who have absolutely no clue about the industry anyway. A law unto themselves. Protests outside the sinking/stinking ship with bells, whistles and horns blowing is the only thing will garner media interest.

Last edited by Smooth Airperator; 22nd Aug 2021 at 17:15.
Smooth Airperator is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:24
  #7 (permalink)  
pug
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think itís quite telling that when calling the flight crew licensing department, they feel compelled to add a reminder to customers on the automated telephone system that language of an unprofessional nature will not be tolerated. This in itself must surely give them the hint that theyíre punching way below standards. Itís a department for pilots, many of whom are professionals, not the Primark customer care helpline!

With that said, they have been thrust into a situation against their will, they lost a lot of manpower to EASA, and with it went many years of experience. Alongside the brain drain they had departmental reshuffles. They simply didnít want to be an NAA again. I imagine itís not easy to claw back that man power and knowledge in the space of a few months - but as a customer, it doesnít justify the high prices they charge when compared to other more efficient Authorities..!

Last edited by pug; 10th Nov 2021 at 08:44.
pug is online now  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:42
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ??-ask crewing
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Smooth Airperator

Well, money talks, and their paying client base (both airline and crew) is walking away to other licensing authorities in droves. OTOH, post covid, most uk business seem completely relaxed about repelling business and delivering atrocious service, meanwhile demanding job protection, 100% salaries, WFH, etc ... that can only be sustained for so long..
Sick is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:46
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A place in the sun
Age: 81
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Simple answer - rejoin EASA. I am sure they would be very pleased to have us back.
Bergerie1 is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:55
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Louth, England
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think rejoining EASA is only half of the problem. Currently the U.K. CAA haven’t diverged from
EASA regulations yet so they shouldn’t be struggling on the regulatory side. Also even before we left EASA the U.K. CAA was under performing and over priced. It’s been known as the Belgrano for years before COVID and brexit.
8Wheeler is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 12:49
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
pug

I think ATCOs, Licenced Engineers, Manufacturers and the rest of the civil aviation industry may dispute this point.
TURIN is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 13:29
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Feb 2019 - submitted a query regards crediting of Aeroplane MCC course requirements from Helicopters
Dec 2019 - email apologising for the delay and asking if I still want the question answered
Feb 2020 - Question answered
12 month turnaround.

Applied for ATPL(H) also pre-Brexit and was asked to submit scanned copies of my UK EASA ATPL Exams taken at CAA Gatwick as they did not have any evidence I had ever completed them...

Something was wrong before Brexit, at an organisational level, but like others have said who provides the oversight?
rogue leader is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2021, 13:34
  #13 (permalink)  
pug
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TURIN

Of course, apologies for not being clear as I was referring to the automated telephone system when calling the flight crew licensing department. But if the same happens when calling those other relevant departments then it makes the point even more pertinent.

Original post edited for clarity.

Last edited by pug; 23rd Aug 2021 at 13:50.
pug is online now  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 13:41
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No problem Pug. 👍

My own dealings with the CAA recently have been very satisfactory, slow, but that was to be expected.
TURIN is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.