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Working Life After Flying

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Working Life After Flying

Old 8th Nov 2020, 20:42
  #281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delta of Venus
Posts: 470
ZeBedie

Where do I say that airline pilots can't operate an aircraft? I'm saying many are fundamentaly unsuitable for Corporate aviation in terms of their personality, that is all. Also if any pilot was truly commited to this corner of the industry they would have made it their ambition from day one, rather than now, as a safe port in a storm... One last thing, before you start talking about safety, I believe statistically NCC/Part91 ops are safer than airline.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 20:45
  #282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delta of Venus
Posts: 470
captain g l walker

Yes you're right. When the sun was shining airline folk had no interest in corporate NCC/part91, so jog on now, sunshine...
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 21:09
  #283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Switzerland ... oh wait: Swaziland
Posts: 605
Pls remind me not to hire you as my pilot if I ever hit the jackpot.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 21:24
  #284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delta of Venus
Posts: 470
No problem, I'll remind you now, Don't hire me, I'm not available, Goodnight.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 21:52
  #285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: This side of the river Tweed
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"A neighbour of mine who is a BBC journalist in Kent/Sussex would like to do a story about crew who have changed career due to Covid. If you would like to tell them your story please send me a message and I will put you in touch with them."

Airline pilot to supermarket delivery van driver thanks to the BBC and their narrative.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 23:57
  #286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
One last thing, before you start talking about safety, I believe statistically NCC/Part91 ops are safer than airline.
I find that hard to believe. Can you provide a source of such statistics?
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 06:22
  #287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 188
Private Jet, that's a truly stupid comment. Whilst we all get the fact that the job entails a different way of thinking and working, it's wrong to assume all airline pilots are used to having everything done for them and handed on a plate. There are airline pilots (and bizjet pilots) who are not fit enough to be pilots full stop. There are airline pilots who should've been bizjet pilots from the word go and everything in between. Most of us don't get to choose the type of job we end up getting. You're a lucky guy.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 07:20
  #288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 324
The reality is somewhere in between IMO - the airline pilot mentality often seems to be trying to find a reason why a flight can't or shouldn't go, whereas a corporate pilot is looking for ways in which it can go, or alternative solutions. But the incompetent outliers who really shouldn't be allowed near any heavy machinery, do tend to find refuge in the biz jet world, and there they stay - FSI training is slightly better than airline training in my experience, but they very rarely seem to outright fail their trainees. I hate being an airline "drone" and am busting to go back to corporate. Retired flag carrier pilots in the latter that I have come across have almost always created a path of destruction - angry clients, upset colleagues, horrified ops/bosses.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 07:29
  #289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 47
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
A lot of Airline types suddenly now thinking Corporate aviation is the promised land and that they are superbly "qualified" to do it. Delusion, on a mass scale. Firstly, the number of opportunities are tiny and secondly please, please, please go get a job in a supermarket, you will be much more suited to that way of life.
Started my career in corporate OPS 25 years ago, private owner, great experience for a couple of years, till I transitioned to airlines. Reason was mainly money and career, as both of them were non existent in that context although I am well aware there are plenty of well paid well handled Corporate Ops.

Quick feedback having seen both sides of the spectrum : You can quickly train an experienced airline Captain coming from a respectable airline to the required mindset of corporate OPS. The tech part is obviously granted.
The other way around does not work. I have trained on the A330/A340 and A380 plenty of super hero G550/G650 guys who had flown the world's most important super stars and politicians and were expecting a direct left seat position because of that but soon realized (sometimes the hard way) that it does not work that well.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 07:32
  #290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
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Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi View Post
The reality is somewhere in between IMO - the airline pilot mentality often seems to be trying to find a reason why a flight can't or shouldn't go, whereas a corporate pilot is looking for ways in which it can go, or alternative solutions.
Depends. In a highly unionized airline it is possibile, whereas in other "performance driven" gigs it is the opposite and the troublemakers are quickly shown either the right seat or the door.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 08:07
  #291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Apart from the individual and his/her skills and attitude, everything also depends on the particular operator. There are operators with great standards of safety, maintenance and everything both in the airline and in the corporate world. There are also some fine examples of the exact opposite in both worlds. If one place is looking for a professional pilot who puts safety first and another one is looking for a flying cowboy who will be pressing on with the flight no matter what, then of course their staff is not mutually transferable. And each one will be looking to employ "their" type of people who will be a good fit to their culture and mentality.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 12:19
  #292 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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nickler

And why do you think is that? Going from corporate to airline does not work that well.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 13:02
  #293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
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IMHO, the term "corporate" is way too broad to be put into context. There's a massive difference between flying for a two-crew owner operation which is a world of its own and flying for a large business jet charter company. Remark: some of those companies provide ops support to aircraft owners, so, while you might have signed a contract with a large charter establishment, you'll only be working on one aircraft with a handful of other people, being confined to this small world of its own.

So, what's the potential problem with flying with the same guy for years on end and not really being subordinate to a large organisation? Standardisation. This environment is the perfect breeding ground for all sorts of informal techniques and practices, just because there's nobody to insist on doing otherwise. And, if you take that a bit too close to heart, you might fall flat on your face the moment you go to an airline where you'll be required to stick to a rigid SOP. My observations are that some corporate guys struggle with that exact aspect of airline flying. Their flying skills may be good, their organisational skills are usually above-average, they often know more about flight planning than any airline guy - but the somewhat lax attitude towards following firmly set procedures often plays a bad joke on them.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 09:00
  #294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 48
I fly for a corporate, and we DO have rigid SOP... we DO have line checks, oh and guess what, we do have OMB...funny to read this comments. And most of our pilots move eventually to airlines without any problems at all. The other way is a bit more complicated. A few of them , who passed Wizzair, are crying out to come back with us haha... not a chance for them, we don't hire anyway.

CRM is VERY important in corporate where you spend several days together. In an airline, flying with an a**h***, is ok, you can put him on black list or if you are lucky enouch (big "factory"), you will probably not fly with him again in the next few months.
anyway, the most important is to have a seat , the rest is about litterature

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Old 15th Nov 2020, 15:54
  #295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 0
Jeez. He’s just trolling .

I’ve done airline all versions and corporate VIP and VVIP.

It works both ways - in the VViP world you have more exposure to the customer and this requires more diplomatic skills with often high net worth individuals, but equally some corporate are not suited to airlines
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Old 15th Nov 2020, 21:50
  #296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 538
There’s a black list? News to me!
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:22
  #297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 324
Some airlines allow crews to request not to be rostered with So and So.
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 21:20
  #298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 49
Private jet

You sir/madam, are a fool. We are all flying a similar bit of metal and if you hadn’t noticed, the people behind you, paying you, couldn’t care less about you or your personality which is similar to that of a haggard old vulture. Go crawl back under your rock. I hope the moderators deal with you.
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 22:03
  #299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 47
Posts: 89
Private jet

My friend, to get in corporate ops the most important thing You need is connections / know the owner(s). Besides large operators like Netjets and similar, there are no assessments whatsoever or the assessment is a phone call with Your sponsor telling the boss You are a good guy.
Now a lot of pilots have spent their time trying to get better in their profession rather than trying to hook up people that could introduce them to other people who could eventually land them a job in a G650 after many years of harse licking. The day I will see job postings for non rated pilots on those kind of machines with airline-like assessments (tech/sims, etc.) then we will be talking the same language.
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