Working Life After Flying
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 83
From: Germany
Good post Joe and I am pleased that you have found something you enjoy. I did it the other way around, moving from partner in a big consulting firm back into flying. Both are great jobs. Consulting was much better paid than being a jet captain and that financial cushion made the vagaries and uncertainties of airline flying a lot easier to bear. One caveat I would make however, is that consulting can be an up or out type of job. By that I mean over time you either work your way up the ranks or get let go. There is a degree of slaloming between firms till you find your place. But the number of consultants that remain in a consultancy till retirement is quite small. It is essentially a young man's game. Although having said that my wife (somewhat younger) has gone back to consulting full-time, which solves the problem of me suddenly being home a lot more.
I always loved flying and having flown for a while between university and consulting I was happy to get back in the air. Timing is everything and things worked out. I flew Boeings and various models of Airbus till I was sixty and rather assumed most people made it that far. A rather sobering article I just read, quoted some studies that said that even prior to Corona a lot of airline pilots did not continue flying that long. The gist of it was that after age 43 about five percent of Airline pilots per year stopped flying. So of the entire cohort only 11 percent made it to sixty. I find it a bit hard to believe. But I suppose if you add up the people that fail medicals and checks, lose their jobs for other reasons, not least their airline going bust and those who find something they prefer (like Joe) then maybe it is not so outrageous.
I always loved flying and having flown for a while between university and consulting I was happy to get back in the air. Timing is everything and things worked out. I flew Boeings and various models of Airbus till I was sixty and rather assumed most people made it that far. A rather sobering article I just read, quoted some studies that said that even prior to Corona a lot of airline pilots did not continue flying that long. The gist of it was that after age 43 about five percent of Airline pilots per year stopped flying. So of the entire cohort only 11 percent made it to sixty. I find it a bit hard to believe. But I suppose if you add up the people that fail medicals and checks, lose their jobs for other reasons, not least their airline going bust and those who find something they prefer (like Joe) then maybe it is not so outrageous.
Last edited by lederhosen; 5th October 2020 at 14:41.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
From: Europe
I'm not surprised with the figure of before-60 retirements and career changes. Not in the slightest. After age 45 or so, most people tend to reevaluate their priorities, even if that means downshifting in the name of a more relaxed life. I've seen people in their late 40s or early 50s leave flying for a lower-paid job on the ground or exchange a major carrier for some small and unknown charter operation where much less flying is done each month/year. What is tolerable at 30 is no longer tolerable at 50.
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 402
Likes: 18
From: UK
Slightly off of the consulting topic but...
https://jobs.eastmidlandsrailway.co....x?ref=2020-223
East Midlands Railway are doing an online open day about the train driver roles that they'll likely advertise at some point. I know it's something that I've banged on about a bit on this thread but this is an opportunity for those who are interested to found out more about the career directly from a major employer without having to leave the front room. When the franchise was run by the previous operator, EMT, pretty much all externals started out as depot drivers. I don't know if it's still the case at EMR but that was pretty much unique to EMT, it's possible to straight into mainline work pretty much everywhere else.
https://jobs.eastmidlandsrailway.co....x?ref=2020-223
East Midlands Railway are doing an online open day about the train driver roles that they'll likely advertise at some point. I know it's something that I've banged on about a bit on this thread but this is an opportunity for those who are interested to found out more about the career directly from a major employer without having to leave the front room. When the franchise was run by the previous operator, EMT, pretty much all externals started out as depot drivers. I don't know if it's still the case at EMR but that was pretty much unique to EMT, it's possible to straight into mainline work pretty much everywhere else.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Uk
I don’t know anyone who has traded aviation willingly for anything else . Quite the reverse , lots of old boys hanging in there doggedly into the 60s. And KLM retireees who found golf and gardening too dull at 55...and wanted to carry on.
The only ones I’ve known pack it in are those to whom it was a side interest and their real job made more money - but can count that number on one hand
The only ones I’ve known pack it in are those to whom it was a side interest and their real job made more money - but can count that number on one hand
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 83
From: Germany
My experience was the same and I note your emphasis on the word willingly. I suppose it depends where you worked. If you were in a series of companies that went bust you probably know more people who involuntarily were forced to move on to other things. At least every ten years there has been a major downturn. I can think of the oil crisis, two gulf wars, the 2008 financial crisis and now Corona to name but a few things that caused problems for aviation employment. Add in the move from three man to two man cockpit when I was starting out and people with loss of licence insurance deciding they had had enough of low cost bottom feeders and the numbers who have packed it in early mounts up. There has been tremendous growth in pilot jobs over the last ten years. But a lot of those have been taken by people under 43. Probably an outlier, but even legacy carrier captains choose to move on. For example Carlo Kitzlinger the actor in 7500 was a Lufthansa A320 captain.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 6
From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
One area of consultancy that is thriving at the moment is HR.
I realise that most HR in most airlines is hardly strategic/dynamic, and some of it is so much like our UK Government - running a useless omni-shambles, but the experience of a recently redundant pilot might be relevant.
The downside is that a lot of the current work is firing people. But if you carefully researched the law and required processes when you were made redundant, you might already have something to offer a consultancy - even if, tactically, you are using it to get your foot in the door.
Naturally, lots of research is required, and maybe some counter-intuitive thinking - the smaller, local consultancies are where the growth is - the big multi-nationals are just shuffling staff around.
I realise that most HR in most airlines is hardly strategic/dynamic, and some of it is so much like our UK Government - running a useless omni-shambles, but the experience of a recently redundant pilot might be relevant.
The downside is that a lot of the current work is firing people. But if you carefully researched the law and required processes when you were made redundant, you might already have something to offer a consultancy - even if, tactically, you are using it to get your foot in the door.
Naturally, lots of research is required, and maybe some counter-intuitive thinking - the smaller, local consultancies are where the growth is - the big multi-nationals are just shuffling staff around.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, UK
A mate of mine recently had a part of his house redecorated by an out of work VS Captain.
Did a real nice job and a nice guy too. More importantly, wasn't afraid to do "menial" work (as described here by some) when needs must.
Did a real nice job and a nice guy too. More importantly, wasn't afraid to do "menial" work (as described here by some) when needs must.
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Uk
I’m not afraid to do menial work - it’s interesting to see people’s attitudes from the other side.
I’m glad now that I always made the effort to chat to the refuellers, cleaners etc to make them feel part of the team and equally as important, as I can see some condescending attitudes when I’m out there in the real world.
Whatever happens , after 7 months off, I’ve got to do something so I do .
I’m glad now that I always made the effort to chat to the refuellers, cleaners etc to make them feel part of the team and equally as important, as I can see some condescending attitudes when I’m out there in the real world.
Whatever happens , after 7 months off, I’ve got to do something so I do .
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 183
Likes: 41
From: UK
PoacherNowGamekeeper
I think they'll be ok. one is the director of flight operations. the others are probably (not 100% sure) in the crs pool getting paid 2/3 salary while awaiting a type rating on the 777 in the next 2 years.
I think they'll be ok. one is the director of flight operations. the others are probably (not 100% sure) in the crs pool getting paid 2/3 salary while awaiting a type rating on the 777 in the next 2 years.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 17
From: Delta of Venus
A lot of Airline types suddenly now thinking Corporate aviation is the promised land and that they are superbly "qualified" to do it. Delusion, on a mass scale. Firstly, the number of opportunities are tiny and secondly please, please, please go get a job in a supermarket, you will be much more suited to that way of life.
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Job center
Private jet
What a disgraceful thing to say, on a thread that you know is populated by people in very dire straights indeed.
Enjoying your moment are we? Well done you. To be fair, you're probably still frothy after your unexpected emulation and you certainly won't be intelligent enough to realise that it wasn't skill that left you with a chair when the music stopped.
In fact, judging by the way the industry is evolving, I'm sure you'll go far. Meanwhile, the prospect of sharing a cockpit with handschuhschneeballwerfer like you is probably one of the reasons that experienced transport pilots - the future of flight safety - are quickly coming to terms with calling it a day.
Enjoy your Corporate aviation party, you lucky thing.
What a disgraceful thing to say, on a thread that you know is populated by people in very dire straights indeed.
Enjoying your moment are we? Well done you. To be fair, you're probably still frothy after your unexpected emulation and you certainly won't be intelligent enough to realise that it wasn't skill that left you with a chair when the music stopped.
In fact, judging by the way the industry is evolving, I'm sure you'll go far. Meanwhile, the prospect of sharing a cockpit with handschuhschneeballwerfer like you is probably one of the reasons that experienced transport pilots - the future of flight safety - are quickly coming to terms with calling it a day.
Enjoy your Corporate aviation party, you lucky thing.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 17
From: Delta of Venus
ZeBedie
Where do I say that airline pilots can't operate an aircraft? I'm saying many are fundamentaly unsuitable for Corporate aviation in terms of their personality, that is all. Also if any pilot was truly commited to this corner of the industry they would have made it their ambition from day one, rather than now, as a safe port in a storm... One last thing, before you start talking about safety, I believe statistically NCC/Part91 ops are safer than airline.
Where do I say that airline pilots can't operate an aircraft? I'm saying many are fundamentaly unsuitable for Corporate aviation in terms of their personality, that is all. Also if any pilot was truly commited to this corner of the industry they would have made it their ambition from day one, rather than now, as a safe port in a storm... One last thing, before you start talking about safety, I believe statistically NCC/Part91 ops are safer than airline.