BA pilots vote to strike

[Built4Speed2]

BA pilot dispute over?

Imagine my surprise to learn it’s already all over? What happened?

I thought the two days of almost complete stoppage would herald a new day for industrial action in the UK but alas it seems to have all died with not even a whimper!

Did our BA Pilot cousins get the huge pay and share award they were expecting? Did the “joint unions” bring harmony and team spirit back to the unions? What was achieved, exactly? It’s all very quiet.

[wiggy]

Judging by the questions I suspect you already know the answers, or at least some of them...

Anyhow latest news is the "relationship reset" seems to have worked to the company's advantage in the last 24 hours...another "give" by BALPA, or somebody at BALPA, to help out in time of need....

[Built4Speed2]

Originally Posted by wiggy

Judging by the questions I suspect you already know the answers, or at least some of them...

Anyhow latest news is the "relationship reset" seems to have worked to the company's advantage in the last 24 hours...another "give" by BALPA, or somebody at BALPA, to help out in time of need....

Weird isn’t it, it’s like the leadership has suddenly turned and is dragging the pumped up members with them.

i don’t know the answers wiggy, just a casual observer musing at the apparent volte face.

google the BACC chairman’s name with Sunday Times and an interesting article appears from not so long ago.

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by Built4Speed2

What was achieved, exactly?

A spineless capitulation, by all accounts. A precedent set to all airline management across the UK that they can walk all over their workforce.

BALPA and the BA pilots who went on strike should publicly apologise to their customers, who's travel plans were disrupted for, ultimately, no reason whatsoever. Congratulations.

[kookiesandkreme]

Can anyone elaborate on what was agreed? As i understand it's a pay rise over a given few years but was anything agreed with regards to hotels or terms etc?

[bex88]

4% back dated a year including all allowances and pension, 3.5% Jan 2020, 4% April 2021. 1% sign on bonus. Increase to flight pay of £1 per hour.....around £11.70 ish.

Short haul duty rig changed from 2.0 to 1.9......essentially a little less work. Not sure exactly but it could be worth a day off in a busy month.

RPI protection mechanism
Improvement to bonus scheme but that is of debate. Now 3% but can stretch to 4%, off the top of my head.

There are some gives. Disruption agreement to be bought in, rules to be negotiated with BALPA. Staff travel reinstated, pay deductions dealt with as a joint claim and not through the courts. To be resolved in first 1/4 by independent panel.

Hotels, not covered and lots of promises to make BA a better place to work. Will it lead to anything?........probably a lot of noise and propaganda without any real change.

I don’t see how continuing would have achieved much more. As professionals we have to be measured and responsible in our actions. If I were not working at BA I too would have been encouraging everyone to drag this out....after all BA’s loss would be to the benefit of my company and employment.

[Built4Speed2]

Originally Posted by bex88

4% back dated a year including all allowances and pension, 3.5% Jan 2020, 4% April 2021. 1% sign on bonus. Increase to flight pay of £1 per hour.....around £11.70 ish.

Short haul duty rig changed from 2.0 to 1.9......essentially a little less work. Not sure exactly but it could be worth a day off in a busy month.

RPI protection mechanism
Improvement to bonus scheme but that is of debate. Now 3% but can stretch to 4%, off the top of my head.

There are some gives. Disruption agreement to be bought in, rules to be negotiated with BALPA. Staff travel reinstated, pay deductions dealt with as a joint claim and not through the courts. To be resolved in first 1/4 by independent panel.

Hotels, not covered and lots of promises to make BA a better place to work. Will it lead to anything?........probably a lot of noise and propaganda without any real change.

I don’t see how continuing would have achieved much more. As professionals we have to be measured and responsible in our actions. If I were not working at BA I too would have been encouraging everyone to drag this out....after all BA’s loss would be to the benefit of my company and employment.

sound slike a lot of fluffy nonsense to me bex, to be honest. I think the rest of us aren’t salivating at the thought of mighty BA faltering, rather we were hoping you guys would live up to your “top of the tree” responsibilities and advance us as a profession. For too many years the BA brotherhood have lived in a bit of a bubble, comfortable by any standards, but by no means the level of say Air France, KLM, Lufty and co. Big fish in a small pond (UK) but a small minnow in the open ocean (Europe/ USA). Looking at your quoted settlement, if accurate, will see another decade of ratcheting down terms and conditions for all UK pilots.

I truly wish the new council the best in picking up this unholy mess and giving you guys some sort of influence on matters going forwards. Senor Cruz has just defeated a 94% mandate that led to a total shutdown for 48 hours and has spent not a penny more than before the strikes. Your new council has a lot to work to do or you will be the toothless paper tigers this dispute has seemingly demonstrated,

all the best.

[bex88]

Built4speed2

There is no doubt some have succumbed to Stockholm syndrome, some are just tired and a good number just can’t afford to strike after the deductions the company made for just 1 days action.

I think partly what what we have seen is a improvements elsewhere and BA simply continued on its cost cutting modernisation drive.

Part of the problem is the disparity of pay at BA. A320 skipper basic 78k to 148k basic. When looking at pay how are the company comparing us to market rate with such a range. I don’t really want to be drawn much further on that because I have no fair solutions and sniping at the guys at the top is not a way forward.

I think fluffy nonsense is probably the best way to describe most of it.

A320 DEP is open, hopefully if BA get a black eye on that one with very few applications they will start to wake up. It’s the only thing that will make a difference I think.....is that going to happen? I doubt it, despite its wrongs, some people still want to come here and I understand why.

All the very best.......hopefully fluffy nonsense delivers

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by bex88

Built4speed2

There is no doubt some have succumbed to Stockholm syndrome, some are just tired and a good number just can’t afford to strike after the deductions the company made for just 1 days action.

I think it is more complex than that.

I don’t think may felt any sympathy with the company after just two days of IA so I don’t think Stockholm syndrome came into it (though I accept there are still some of a conservative nature who would offer up their first born rather than indulge in IA ..)

I think tiredness with the issue has only crept in in the last week or two.

As for deductions....for years “we” were told to have funds to cover being unpaid for a month.....most guys I know could do that but we’re surprised quite how the company did their sums

IMHO the answer to all this is ‘ something” unspecified happened after the two strike days....maybe BA leant on big BALPA, maybe BA leant on individual Reps...........

Very ugly and I don’t blame the reps, but ultimately where we are is not down to the mass BA membership lacking will or spine...

[GS-Alpha]

Originally Posted by wiggy

but ultimately where we are is not down to the mass BA membership lacking will or spine...

If a few reps being leant on is enough to thwart the will and determination of the membership, there is surely a problem with the structure of the union? Going from a strong mandate to strike, to a strong mandate to end strikes, when nothing really changed, can only have reduced the chances of a future strike and improved BA’s ability to cut costs.

[RexBanner]

We lost the moment we cancelled the third day of strike. It was painted as some kind of genius move, utter cobblers. Even if it was intended to show deescalation it portrayed massive weakness to management. But we are where we are.

[Built4Speed2]

This can’t be right?

I’ve just been told, no doubt erroneously, that the same Council is in place today that led the strike. That can’t be true, surely? With such a crushing defeat, save the fluffy marriage counselling, the honourable thing to do would be to step down immediately. Management will never respect this team again, and having been through a crushing strike in my own company, I doubt the reps themselves can look each other in the eye. If this is the same team, expect bitter recriminations and internal fights for years to come. Dead men walking.

New faces needed, surely everyone can agree on that? At the very least with the chair so compromised due to his past misdemeanours, he has to step aside, the employer will always be able to blackmail him with that alone.

(apologies if there is a new Council in place and I’ve been given duff info)

[wiggy]

Despite appearances there was no “crushing defeat” and yes, the same company council are still in place.

TBH I have no idea as to what is going on (no change there then) at the top table other than there’s now more infighting and argument going on over a decision made by a senior rep to help the company out when the flying programme came under stress a few days ago.....

I do rather suspect the company regard last summer’s events as a mere speed bump on the road to even more savings and efficiencies.....

[Trossie]

As an outsider it does seem to come across as "what was all the fuss about?"

But a whole lot of passengers were inconvenienced along the way (and on this one it doesn't appear to be either side that individually deserves the 'finger pointing' but rather both sides)..

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Trossie

As an outsider it does seem to come across as "what was all the fuss about?".

How long have you got? The.problem is only one of the items that was causing “the fuss” has even been half addressed (pay). The rest of the items are still there, festering...

[TURIN]

I remember at the start of this that any improved offer to pilots would also apply to the rest of the collective. From what I can see, the improvement is an extra £1/hrs flying pay. Obviously, this won't apply to the ground staff. Did I miss anything?

[Trossie]

Originally Posted by Trossie

Many here say that public support is irrelevant. Public support will be zero. Public opposition will be huge. When the travelling public, who on average earn a fraction of what the striking pilots already earn, have their travel plans seriously disrupted for those pilots to get a pay rise that most of that travelling public could only dream of, the opposition will be huge. Don't expect support from a single newspaper, TV news channel nor radio station. Expect to be vilified by all of them. Don't expect them to listen to your complaints that you should be compared with German, Dutch or American airlines, they won't be interested in that. They will be blaming you for their travel disruption.

Originally Posted by wiggy

How long have you got? The.problem is only one of the items that was causing “the fuss” has even been half addressed (pay). The rest of the items are still there, festering...

So, seeing it all from the outside, there was a big fuss, not a lot was solved, some things may have got worse and a lot of people had travel plans disrupted. Is there any other way that outsiders should see this? How do you convince people that BA is a good and reliable airline on which to book a flight? It might make some outsiders a wee bit nervous to hear that pilots aren't happy. Try to think through an outsider's viewpoint when answering, not just from 'within a bubble'.

[bex88]

My fault Turin, it is actually 4% and then 3.5% in January and 4% the following April. It is part of the variable pay that makes up pilots salary.

Trossie, the first strike in a generation and a resolution. I don’t think you need to worry. 90% voted in favour....roughly

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Trossie

So, seeing it all from the outside, there was a big fuss, not a lot was solved, some things may have got worse and a lot of people had travel plans disrupted. Is there any other way that outsiders should see this? How do you convince people that BA is a good and reliable airline on which to book a flight? It might make some outsiders a wee bit nervous to hear that pilots aren't happy. Try to think through an outsider's viewpoint when answering, not just from 'within a bubble'.

Like many here this for tha last 6 months I’ve had to plan holidays, work travel etc with this and other strikes in mind so I’m not sure many of us are in a bubble, but anyway, bubble or not, objectively this dispute is done and dusted...

As bex has said there has been a “resolution”...IMVHO not much changed but the company’s offer was put to the membership, after a ballot the proposals were accepted by a decent majority...that’s it. The U.K. isn’t France, the action can’t just be turned back on like a tap,

As for the “good and reliable airline” aspect of this, there is far far more to that than the BALPA dispute and maybe you need to ask of management how well they are doing at facilitating a good and reliable airline....the workforce can only do so much with the resources they are given.

[Barcli]

Originally Posted by TURIN

I remember at the start of this that any improved offer to pilots would also apply to the rest of the collective. From what I can see, the improvement is an extra £1/hrs flying pay. Obviously, this won't apply to the ground staff. Did I miss anything?

Some of the Pilots ( ALL ex BMI SH) dont get the extra £1 either........I say again , sold down the river to protect the few