Norwegian Lack of Pilots
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
From: gate 67 JFK
Its no secret that Norwegian are again short of pilots for this summer as indeed are Ryanair who are also cancelling flights.
The problem is 30%+ growth and despite a massive ramp up in training capacity there are just too many bottlenecks, some unforeseen other more obvious.
The anti Norwegian brigade fall into broadly two camps, those employed, but sacked for having Tourettes on the company intranet site and those who applied but didn't' get called.
Having worked for/flown on behalf of Norwegian for 5+ years i can only say this, they have never missed a salary payment, for the past two years I have been in taper relief for pension contributions (£150K=+) I have had to use the QRH twice in anger.
5 years running its won best European LoCo award with skytrax and 3 years running the best world wide LoCo long haul airline.
95% of people I fly with are happy with their lot in NAI
The two main anti- Norwegian posters on here where both sacked by Norwegian and did not win any industrial tribunal
Its not perfect of course, but with 130 aircraft and a willingness to go for it there are bound to be frustrations, its clear that 99% of posters don't work for Norwegian, the 99% of those that do laugh at some off the idiotic comments on here...
No one is forcing you to join Norwegian, but we'd welcome those that wish to get involved and have good craic
The problem is 30%+ growth and despite a massive ramp up in training capacity there are just too many bottlenecks, some unforeseen other more obvious.
The anti Norwegian brigade fall into broadly two camps, those employed, but sacked for having Tourettes on the company intranet site and those who applied but didn't' get called.
Having worked for/flown on behalf of Norwegian for 5+ years i can only say this, they have never missed a salary payment, for the past two years I have been in taper relief for pension contributions (£150K=+) I have had to use the QRH twice in anger.
5 years running its won best European LoCo award with skytrax and 3 years running the best world wide LoCo long haul airline.
95% of people I fly with are happy with their lot in NAI
The two main anti- Norwegian posters on here where both sacked by Norwegian and did not win any industrial tribunal
Its not perfect of course, but with 130 aircraft and a willingness to go for it there are bound to be frustrations, its clear that 99% of posters don't work for Norwegian, the 99% of those that do laugh at some off the idiotic comments on here...
No one is forcing you to join Norwegian, but we'd welcome those that wish to get involved and have good craic
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Between the sheets
I flew with a fellow capt a few months ago who was leaving ek to join norwegian for a FLL base.
He was very anti ek/dubai, so he's probably happy there, but what he told me about the rosters and pay didn't seem very attractive to me.
He was very anti ek/dubai, so he's probably happy there, but what he told me about the rosters and pay didn't seem very attractive to me.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Norwegian’s gross mismanagement of pilot resources now raises safety fears from its own pilot group:-
“We do not want this extra pressure to work, because they may be tempted to fly even if they are tired” - Link:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/fryk...a-fly/68382196
Despite this “extra pressure” and other dissatisfaction, there is a reason Norwegian Group airlines do not have any disgruntled employees – they do not have any employees!
Therefore, it is not possible to lose, nor even bring an Employment Tribunal claim against a Norwegian airline - as one sycophant on this thread would have you believe.
Norwegian is regularly in the media with labor disputes involving crews at one of its locations. Recent grievances by Norwegian’s crews based in Spain, Italy and the US have made the headlines. The Scandinavian group has an ongoing “real employer” court case.
Norwegian’s atypical labor scheme is described by the US DOT as “novel and complex” (read the contract). EU Transport Ministers recently met to discuss how;
“Atypical employment can affect the safety of airlines” – Link:
https://eurocockpit.be/news/eu-trans...cal-employment
Atypical employment permitted the summary dismissal, before any regulatory investigation, of four Norwegian long haul flight attendants in JFK after they raised safety concerns. That matter is far from concluded. Alarmingly, there are other examples of Norwegian’s managers taking punitive action against those raising safety concerns. All permitted without recourse via an atypical employment scheme.
Increasing numbers have been enlightened to Norwegian’s gross hypocrisy and unsavory methods in its “management” of flight crews. This is evidenced by Norwegian’s present calamitous situation leaving passengers stranded and distraught due to a lack of pilots.
“We do not want this extra pressure to work, because they may be tempted to fly even if they are tired” - Link:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/fryk...a-fly/68382196
Despite this “extra pressure” and other dissatisfaction, there is a reason Norwegian Group airlines do not have any disgruntled employees – they do not have any employees!
Therefore, it is not possible to lose, nor even bring an Employment Tribunal claim against a Norwegian airline - as one sycophant on this thread would have you believe.
Norwegian is regularly in the media with labor disputes involving crews at one of its locations. Recent grievances by Norwegian’s crews based in Spain, Italy and the US have made the headlines. The Scandinavian group has an ongoing “real employer” court case.
Norwegian’s atypical labor scheme is described by the US DOT as “novel and complex” (read the contract). EU Transport Ministers recently met to discuss how;
“Atypical employment can affect the safety of airlines” – Link:
https://eurocockpit.be/news/eu-trans...cal-employment
Atypical employment permitted the summary dismissal, before any regulatory investigation, of four Norwegian long haul flight attendants in JFK after they raised safety concerns. That matter is far from concluded. Alarmingly, there are other examples of Norwegian’s managers taking punitive action against those raising safety concerns. All permitted without recourse via an atypical employment scheme.
Increasing numbers have been enlightened to Norwegian’s gross hypocrisy and unsavory methods in its “management” of flight crews. This is evidenced by Norwegian’s present calamitous situation leaving passengers stranded and distraught due to a lack of pilots.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
What is the difference between NAI's Atypical employment schemes and other competitor's imaginative non-employment schemes? NAI are not the only one with many non-employees, so what is happening about the other schemes?
Reading the 'eurocockpit' link above there is comment about a debatable possible reduction in safety with large contingents of Atypical self-employed pilots. There were hints about risk taking and decision making. That is questionable, but what is very likely is those on zero-hour contracts will be tempted to work when not fully fit. No guaranteed income, no work no pay, it is not difficult to understand guys pushing their own boundaries to pay off debt and pay bills.
Reading the 'eurocockpit' link above there is comment about a debatable possible reduction in safety with large contingents of Atypical self-employed pilots. There were hints about risk taking and decision making. That is questionable, but what is very likely is those on zero-hour contracts will be tempted to work when not fully fit. No guaranteed income, no work no pay, it is not difficult to understand guys pushing their own boundaries to pay off debt and pay bills.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 1
From: FUBAR
INKJET,
No Tourettes on RedNose, fortunately my command of our (?) Native tongue is eloquent enough to avoid that error, but an unhealthily honest presentation of the facts, in stark contradiction to the company lies/propaganda that were being fed to the BrownNoses, was evidently too difficult for them to counter, so, Adios ! . . . . otherwise, correct.
As for not winning any industrial tribunal, the jury (or more accurately Judge ) is literally still out on that one. . . and that is only Part 1 of 2 . . . as you may remember, if you know so much detail, I was also employed in PSN & that employment hasn't even been formally rescinded, never mind subject to an internal disciplinary procedure, let alone industrial tribunal . . . . the Fat Lady hasn't even picked up the concert listing. . . . . .
No Tourettes on RedNose, fortunately my command of our (?) Native tongue is eloquent enough to avoid that error, but an unhealthily honest presentation of the facts, in stark contradiction to the company lies/propaganda that were being fed to the BrownNoses, was evidently too difficult for them to counter, so, Adios ! . . . . otherwise, correct.
As for not winning any industrial tribunal, the jury (or more accurately Judge ) is literally still out on that one. . . and that is only Part 1 of 2 . . . as you may remember, if you know so much detail, I was also employed in PSN & that employment hasn't even been formally rescinded, never mind subject to an internal disciplinary procedure, let alone industrial tribunal . . . . the Fat Lady hasn't even picked up the concert listing. . . . . .
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Dark Side of The Moon
and I can tell you once again - the real problem is the PILOTS who accept these kind of contracts. You complain on pprune and then just sign the contract and go to work and the executives just laugh at your stupidity. Wake up!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
Thirty five years in the flying business and five + with Norwegian and it is the whole business that I am sick of, Norwegian is slightly above par for the game with there being a number of operators I have worked for who are a lot worse.
They are certainly not helped by their unusual employment model but that being said they have lasted a lot longer than the last two companies I worked for so from a personal point of view at least my bank account is ahead of the game.
Most of Norwegian's detractors have never worked for the company, Captainplaystation I have some sympathy for as he was around for a while but was a victim of his own Internet opinions , Bondi however was only with the company for a month or so and irregularities had been found in his career history and so was asked to leave.
On the whole I think the Norwegian management are deeply aware of the mistakes that they made a few years back when they laid off pilots over the winter as this decision has come back to haunt them and cost them far more than it saved them.
So to sum it all up in a business that is not what it once was Norwegian is slightly above average in terms of T's & C's and a long way from being bad place to work, but to put it into perspective it is NOT the dire place that it's leading detractor would have you think.
They are certainly not helped by their unusual employment model but that being said they have lasted a lot longer than the last two companies I worked for so from a personal point of view at least my bank account is ahead of the game.
Most of Norwegian's detractors have never worked for the company, Captainplaystation I have some sympathy for as he was around for a while but was a victim of his own Internet opinions , Bondi however was only with the company for a month or so and irregularities had been found in his career history and so was asked to leave.
On the whole I think the Norwegian management are deeply aware of the mistakes that they made a few years back when they laid off pilots over the winter as this decision has come back to haunt them and cost them far more than it saved them.
So to sum it all up in a business that is not what it once was Norwegian is slightly above average in terms of T's & C's and a long way from being bad place to work, but to put it into perspective it is NOT the dire place that it's leading detractor would have you think.
