Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
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It's not very clear at all, as there is nothing official about the contract at any stage thus far. Only stuff on here which is anything but concrete. Yes you may be 100% accurate with the details and this is not intended to be a slight on your post, but more about the amount of conjecture on here. It's staggering. We'll find out when they ask 'do you have any questions for us' down at the luton hangar. Go along, do your best at interview then decide if you want it.
Anyhow, thank you for the detailed info Alexander but I do hope you are incorrect !
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Out of interest, when have assessments been available?
ADM, that is the career structure for new entrants to the industry (cadets). Nothing I have read from Balpa or easyjet has any mention of flexi crew or second officer for experienced pilots and the lack of Ctc involvement in the process thus far would confirm this. I applied for the position of first officer and can't afford to accept anything less, as will be the case with many others. Particularly if I have to fund type training. So I would agree that there is uncertainty about the contract.
ADM, that is the career structure for new entrants to the industry (cadets). Nothing I have read from Balpa or easyjet has any mention of flexi crew or second officer for experienced pilots and the lack of Ctc involvement in the process thus far would confirm this. I applied for the position of first officer and can't afford to accept anything less, as will be the case with many others. Particularly if I have to fund type training. So I would agree that there is uncertainty about the contract.
Last edited by transitionlevel; 18th Jun 2013 at 07:55.
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737Jock
The point i was getting at is i have no idea who ADM is, whether he/she works at EZY (posts suggest yes) is involved in this recruitment process etc. Until i get something with an EZY letter head on it, everything else is supposition.
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ADM does work for easyJet, is correct with their details, and if you
then unfortunately there will be many behind you who can and will! These are the agreed T&C with BALPA and, in a year of record profits where we still had to fight to try and get an inflation payrise, there is no chance of them chucking a better deal at you just because you ask for it. Unfortunate - but there we go.
can't afford to accept anything less
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I hear what you are saying, however wasn't the vacancy advertised for a direct NEC FO employment with easyJet (willing to pay for your own typerating) instead of an intial flexicrew contract via Parc or CTC for a year. I appreciate the BALPA negotiations were only concluded after the vacancy was posted and thus things might have changed.
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Looking at the article posted below I nderstand there will be 5% expansion per year( maximum)
I wonder if someone joins now, how long will it be for upgrade...
anybody willing to clarify?
Furthermore, the conditions posted above are valid also for guys/gals already typed and experienced (I hope not because I will have to turn them down)?
Regards
Big announcement from easyJet today -
Following a highly competitive fleet selection process, easyJet plc ("easyJet" or the "Company") announces that, subject to shareholder approval, it has entered into arrangements (the "New Framework Arrangements") with Airbus S.A.S. ("Airbus") to acquire 35 Current Generation A320 Aircraft for delivery between 2015 and 2017 under its existing agreement and 100 New Generation A320neo Aircraft for delivery from 2017 until 2022, under a new agreement. Under this new agreement, Airbus has also granted the Company the right, but not the obligation, to acquire up to 100 further New Generation A320neo Family Aircraft.
Key highlights of the transaction:
Allows easyJet to continue to execute its successful strategy. New generation aircraft sourced at highly attractive prices and at a greater percentage discount to list price than the Company’s existing Airbus contract. Enhances easyJet’s cost advantage and mitigates against inflationary increases; the 180 seater New Generation A320neo Aircraft is expected to deliver a cost per seat saving of between 11% and 12%, compared to a 156 seater Current Generation A319 Aircraft. 85 of 135 ordered aircraft will be used to replace ageing aircraft as they leave the fleet and return to lessors, with the remaining aircraft used to continue easyJet’s existing strategy of capacity seat growth of between 3% to 5% per annum. Continues the high level of fleet flexibility provided by the current arrangements. Whilst the announcement today will deliver a fleet of 276 aircraft by 2022, as of today, the new arrangements also give easyJet the ability to manage the fleet size to between 165 and 298 aircraft in 2022 depending on economic conditions and opportunities available. Total expected fleet acquisition and overhaul expenditure as a percentage of revenue is expected to fall from 18% in the period 2005 to 2012, to 10% to 12% in the period 2018 to 2022.
I wonder if someone joins now, how long will it be for upgrade...
anybody willing to clarify?
Furthermore, the conditions posted above are valid also for guys/gals already typed and experienced (I hope not because I will have to turn them down)?
Regards
Big announcement from easyJet today -
Following a highly competitive fleet selection process, easyJet plc ("easyJet" or the "Company") announces that, subject to shareholder approval, it has entered into arrangements (the "New Framework Arrangements") with Airbus S.A.S. ("Airbus") to acquire 35 Current Generation A320 Aircraft for delivery between 2015 and 2017 under its existing agreement and 100 New Generation A320neo Aircraft for delivery from 2017 until 2022, under a new agreement. Under this new agreement, Airbus has also granted the Company the right, but not the obligation, to acquire up to 100 further New Generation A320neo Family Aircraft.
Key highlights of the transaction:
Allows easyJet to continue to execute its successful strategy. New generation aircraft sourced at highly attractive prices and at a greater percentage discount to list price than the Company’s existing Airbus contract. Enhances easyJet’s cost advantage and mitigates against inflationary increases; the 180 seater New Generation A320neo Aircraft is expected to deliver a cost per seat saving of between 11% and 12%, compared to a 156 seater Current Generation A319 Aircraft. 85 of 135 ordered aircraft will be used to replace ageing aircraft as they leave the fleet and return to lessors, with the remaining aircraft used to continue easyJet’s existing strategy of capacity seat growth of between 3% to 5% per annum. Continues the high level of fleet flexibility provided by the current arrangements. Whilst the announcement today will deliver a fleet of 276 aircraft by 2022, as of today, the new arrangements also give easyJet the ability to manage the fleet size to between 165 and 298 aircraft in 2022 depending on economic conditions and opportunities available. Total expected fleet acquisition and overhaul expenditure as a percentage of revenue is expected to fall from 18% in the period 2005 to 2012, to 10% to 12% in the period 2018 to 2022.
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Last email from Pilot Recruitment:
It's all good and well hearing the above terms and conditions on a public and anonymous forum and I don't doubt them for one minute. However, as you can see from the above, I had been led to believe that it would be a permanent contract from day one (if you wanted).
Regardless, I'm still waiting to be enlightened on why the airline is incapable of setting out such details in writing at the initial application stage? If that is indeed the offer on the table, why no mention of it UNTIL candidates have taken the time and spent the money to actually come for the assessment? The approach is nonsensical and will result in the wasting of time and resources.
If you are invited to an assessment centre we will go through more information with you on the types of contract and locations which are available. However, just as a reminder, we will be offering both permanent and contract opportunities, both in the UK and across our mainland European bases. Contract opportunities also lead to a permanent easyJet contract, pending further assessment, after 12 months have elapsed.
Regardless, I'm still waiting to be enlightened on why the airline is incapable of setting out such details in writing at the initial application stage? If that is indeed the offer on the table, why no mention of it UNTIL candidates have taken the time and spent the money to actually come for the assessment? The approach is nonsensical and will result in the wasting of time and resources.
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It is a permanent contract from Day 1, in that if you do not do anything unbelievably stupid in your first year you will be kept on. There is effectively a year's probation, which is common in all airlines (I accept usually it is 6 months). Therefore this is not a contract - there is a guaranteed job for everyone taken on.
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EcamSurprise - I will have to see the detail, but that is clearly what we have been led to believe and would not expect any substantial deviation from the agreed NEC.
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What is confusing understandably is that you all applied for a contract that would see you joining as an FO/SFO depending on hours. However recently the contract has changed, and you are now subject to these changes rather than what was originally on offer.
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It will be interesting to see when we hear from the horse's mouth! I'll be shocked if they spend a chunk of cash putting 400ish pilots in the sim to then tell them that "actually, the goalposts have moved. We're now offering a 12 month contract as a cadet. Then maybe a permanent job."! Followed swiftly by "where are the details of the guys we knocked back?"
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Well the 'goalposts' have seemingly moved in one way or another every 6 months for people currently flying with easyJet.
Please don't be shocked as to which side of the 'goalposts' any new starter will fall on.
Please don't be shocked as to which side of the 'goalposts' any new starter will fall on.
Xulu,
I am sure we will offer the lowest package available that is acceptable to the candidates.
If all you lot said no to joining at the start of the 12 month period, then the entry point would have to be increased.
The new entrant contract that AdM has correctly described is designed for low hour (cadet) entrants. Where experienced pilots will be slotted in will depend, I suspect, entirely on "market forces".
I am sure we will offer the lowest package available that is acceptable to the candidates.
If all you lot said no to joining at the start of the 12 month period, then the entry point would have to be increased.
The new entrant contract that AdM has correctly described is designed for low hour (cadet) entrants. Where experienced pilots will be slotted in will depend, I suspect, entirely on "market forces".
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The new entrant contract that AdM has correctly described is designed for low hour (cadet) entrants.
This is what was said at the beginning!
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As 100% and Honiley say, its all so tawdry for a FTSE100 Company.
Looking from the outside in, the whole approach leaves an uber sour taste in ones mouth on what is already a caustic subject.
I give it a 1/10.
Looking from the outside in, the whole approach leaves an uber sour taste in ones mouth on what is already a caustic subject.
I give it a 1/10.
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As someone who has been vocal on these forums about the whole cancer of pay to fly, flexi crew etc etc I can confirm everything AdM has said.
There is NO one year contract then "maybe" a perm position. If you start as a Flexi for the 12 month period then you are on a career path now that will only stop because of something you do dangerously or stupidly. The first 12 months is a probation period, and all of this is now with the involvement of BALPA.
I can understand the concern, I find it hard to trust what EasyJet says at times, that there may just be a whole load of 12 months guys in and out and no one going further than that, but I just do not believe it now, the training costs and risks to the operation are just to big. Progress (some) has definitely been made thanks to the full involvement of the BALPA members in EasyJet to end the shameful over use of the flexi crew pilot at EasyJet. I do wonder myself if the regulator ( ha ), the insurers and maybe the shareholders also were putting pressure on the company to change its ways, but regardless with a lot of pushing, it has been achieved. The result is far from perfect but it is a lot better than what was on the table before. There has been a desire on the companies part to engage with it's pilots on this, probably because someone at Luton saw that BALPA was getting all it's ducks in a row to escalate this dispute if common sense could not be found and many, but not all, of the BALPA campaign aims have been achieved in the NEC.
But you do have to look at what you can get for yourself here, I was looking at the Base transfer lists the other day and on that you can see First Officers who have been CPI'd, this means they are in the process for command selection, some of them were 14 when 9-11 happened! We are now in the deepest depression some would say since after the great war, after 9-11 I was struggling to keep my just gained Turbo prop job and the pain that experienced guys were going through then was incredible and just seeing that in such a short space of time we have guys who were teenagers when 9-11 happened sitting on the CPI list waiting their chance at being in command of a jet and staring at a £100K+ package in the UK puts the 12 months as a flexi pilot with a GUARANTEED permanent position after that in sharp focus, for me at least, against a ghastly real world financial situation in which airlines are not struggling to find pilots.
We can have the Instructing/air taxi, glider tug/turbo prop/regional - jet job vs cadet route all we want, I have my opinion about that and others will have theirs about which way is "best" but the lost potential income when you go down the old route that can/did take many years, coupled with all the uncertainty, before you ever touched a jet and descent salary compared with the financial pain here, to find yourself looking at a laid out career path in EasyJet that will have you as an SFO on a 5354 roster pattern in 4 years and looking at joining that CPI list at around the same time is a very stark comparison.
This is not perfect, and as I said before, I am very vocal and active in condemning the way in which easyjet treats its young new pilots for a whole variety of reasons, but many, not all, of my objections have been laid to rest in the New, New entrant Contract for brand new, very low hours pilots joining our ranks and I hope that the company has learnt a bit of a lesson on how it deals with us as employees, but the jury remains firmly out on that one, as there are other battles than just this one that go on inside EasyJet for those of us already here.
The, as yet, unanswered question is how, and where, the badly needed experienced pilots joining us will slot into the new structure, if their experience is not appropriately recognized then we will miss out on the talent pool that we really want to attract, ex military, ex regional pilots with many thousands of valuable hours of experience in their log book, pilots with experience of multiple types and operators bringing a larger view to the EasyJet world. If we are not careful our target pilots will not be willing to join us on such poor terms, and our "experienced" recruits will all be ex flexi pilots with 2000 hours of airbus 320 time and not much else in their log books.
Direct entry pilots with valuable experience should, IMHO, slot straight in as SFO's and at worst under the old TRSS scheme if not type rated, better yet, lets bond people and we will attract the best candidates, when financing type ratings is not part of the selection procedure.
Lastly, the New, New entrant contract (NNEC?) puts everyone as an employee after 12 months in the UK, which puts each one of those pilots into the BALPA bargaining group. Future improvements can be negotiated now with a strong UNION behind it, and I should certainly hope that each person receiving a NNEC is, or becomes, a member as it is thanks to the current membership, and it has to be said, mainly Captains, who could have taken the "this contract does not effect me" stance that improvements, imperfect as they may be, have been achieved.
EasyJet is a low cost airline, and conducts in business in that hard nosed way, it is far from perfect, but there is not a lot better out there at the moment in the UK at least without substantial risk associated with it. I applaud the way in which Monarch approaches its pilot recruitment, employment and employee negotiations with BALPA, and I wish them nothing but success as they branch out, but to be honest I think EasyJet offers more Job security, right now, than Monarch does and in an uncertain world, job security is pretty high up my list. I may be wrong, time will tell.
There is NO one year contract then "maybe" a perm position. If you start as a Flexi for the 12 month period then you are on a career path now that will only stop because of something you do dangerously or stupidly. The first 12 months is a probation period, and all of this is now with the involvement of BALPA.
I can understand the concern, I find it hard to trust what EasyJet says at times, that there may just be a whole load of 12 months guys in and out and no one going further than that, but I just do not believe it now, the training costs and risks to the operation are just to big. Progress (some) has definitely been made thanks to the full involvement of the BALPA members in EasyJet to end the shameful over use of the flexi crew pilot at EasyJet. I do wonder myself if the regulator ( ha ), the insurers and maybe the shareholders also were putting pressure on the company to change its ways, but regardless with a lot of pushing, it has been achieved. The result is far from perfect but it is a lot better than what was on the table before. There has been a desire on the companies part to engage with it's pilots on this, probably because someone at Luton saw that BALPA was getting all it's ducks in a row to escalate this dispute if common sense could not be found and many, but not all, of the BALPA campaign aims have been achieved in the NEC.
But you do have to look at what you can get for yourself here, I was looking at the Base transfer lists the other day and on that you can see First Officers who have been CPI'd, this means they are in the process for command selection, some of them were 14 when 9-11 happened! We are now in the deepest depression some would say since after the great war, after 9-11 I was struggling to keep my just gained Turbo prop job and the pain that experienced guys were going through then was incredible and just seeing that in such a short space of time we have guys who were teenagers when 9-11 happened sitting on the CPI list waiting their chance at being in command of a jet and staring at a £100K+ package in the UK puts the 12 months as a flexi pilot with a GUARANTEED permanent position after that in sharp focus, for me at least, against a ghastly real world financial situation in which airlines are not struggling to find pilots.
We can have the Instructing/air taxi, glider tug/turbo prop/regional - jet job vs cadet route all we want, I have my opinion about that and others will have theirs about which way is "best" but the lost potential income when you go down the old route that can/did take many years, coupled with all the uncertainty, before you ever touched a jet and descent salary compared with the financial pain here, to find yourself looking at a laid out career path in EasyJet that will have you as an SFO on a 5354 roster pattern in 4 years and looking at joining that CPI list at around the same time is a very stark comparison.
This is not perfect, and as I said before, I am very vocal and active in condemning the way in which easyjet treats its young new pilots for a whole variety of reasons, but many, not all, of my objections have been laid to rest in the New, New entrant Contract for brand new, very low hours pilots joining our ranks and I hope that the company has learnt a bit of a lesson on how it deals with us as employees, but the jury remains firmly out on that one, as there are other battles than just this one that go on inside EasyJet for those of us already here.
The, as yet, unanswered question is how, and where, the badly needed experienced pilots joining us will slot into the new structure, if their experience is not appropriately recognized then we will miss out on the talent pool that we really want to attract, ex military, ex regional pilots with many thousands of valuable hours of experience in their log book, pilots with experience of multiple types and operators bringing a larger view to the EasyJet world. If we are not careful our target pilots will not be willing to join us on such poor terms, and our "experienced" recruits will all be ex flexi pilots with 2000 hours of airbus 320 time and not much else in their log books.
Direct entry pilots with valuable experience should, IMHO, slot straight in as SFO's and at worst under the old TRSS scheme if not type rated, better yet, lets bond people and we will attract the best candidates, when financing type ratings is not part of the selection procedure.
Lastly, the New, New entrant contract (NNEC?) puts everyone as an employee after 12 months in the UK, which puts each one of those pilots into the BALPA bargaining group. Future improvements can be negotiated now with a strong UNION behind it, and I should certainly hope that each person receiving a NNEC is, or becomes, a member as it is thanks to the current membership, and it has to be said, mainly Captains, who could have taken the "this contract does not effect me" stance that improvements, imperfect as they may be, have been achieved.
EasyJet is a low cost airline, and conducts in business in that hard nosed way, it is far from perfect, but there is not a lot better out there at the moment in the UK at least without substantial risk associated with it. I applaud the way in which Monarch approaches its pilot recruitment, employment and employee negotiations with BALPA, and I wish them nothing but success as they branch out, but to be honest I think EasyJet offers more Job security, right now, than Monarch does and in an uncertain world, job security is pretty high up my list. I may be wrong, time will tell.
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As ezydriver has said, this is a genuine opportunity to get a permanent job at easyJet from Day One. Yesterday we announced a $10 Billion order for new aircraft (list prices - no doubt we paid less) and have as bright a future as any airline I know of. There is no doubt the first 4 years are not that well paid, but nor are they a disaster and the terms are there for all to see. If you cannot afford to come here then don't, but if you want genuine job security, inasmuch as that exists in the airline industry, then this is a great place to be. It is not perfect, but I would struggle to name one airline that is. The New Entrant Contract, warts and all, was years overdue and put to death a massive and shameful injustice at easyJet. As ezydriver alluded to, BALPA were sizing up for a massive dispute and the Company wisely went for a deal. Both parties had to give ground but both also gained massively. There are indeed other battles to face but the key one has been won. You can now come here knowing exactly what you will get and I hope those that do go onto have a great career with us.
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Assessment
Now that we seem to have got most of the moaning out of the way, does anyone care to discuss how EJ might go about running the assessment day?
I for one am very keen to work for the company and from what I gather there are not that many of us through to this stage so perhaps we can pool thoughts together in the hope that we can all do our best on the day!!
I have no contacts at EJ but am willing to take a few guesses as to what might happen on the day.
First I would guess that we will be required to repeat some of the tests taken online, it seems odd that they would let that be their only chance at gathering aptitude data since anyone could have done it for you.
Second, Group exercises? Possibly similar to what has been done for FlyDubai at CTC?
The interview itself, TMAAT questions I would guess, related to how we did on the personality questions and the scenario questions. They might be looking to probe areas that were assessed as weak during those tests?
Sim Check. 737 or A320? Are there any Simulators at Luton, will it be the day after or come back at a later date for the sim check.
Any info/thoughts peeps???
Getting bored of all this moaning
I for one am very keen to work for the company and from what I gather there are not that many of us through to this stage so perhaps we can pool thoughts together in the hope that we can all do our best on the day!!
I have no contacts at EJ but am willing to take a few guesses as to what might happen on the day.
First I would guess that we will be required to repeat some of the tests taken online, it seems odd that they would let that be their only chance at gathering aptitude data since anyone could have done it for you.
Second, Group exercises? Possibly similar to what has been done for FlyDubai at CTC?
The interview itself, TMAAT questions I would guess, related to how we did on the personality questions and the scenario questions. They might be looking to probe areas that were assessed as weak during those tests?
Sim Check. 737 or A320? Are there any Simulators at Luton, will it be the day after or come back at a later date for the sim check.
Any info/thoughts peeps???
Getting bored of all this moaning