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Orange diarrhoea

Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:22
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,351
He is probably suffering from chronic dissapointment , as they told him it would be like this . . . . . . .

Captain Gorgeous !! - YouTube

the beginning & the end, not the middle
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:09
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
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If you all started playing hardball and grounded aircraft then all the nonsense would halt, but hey what do I know?

Me, I have left the airlines for good! (Hopefully)
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:32
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 608
Yes, lets ground the fleet tomorrow and slaughter our company publicly thus alienating our customers while placing all our futures in jeopardy by engaging in unofficial industrial action. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Last edited by blackred1443; 19th Dec 2012 at 19:25.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 21:33
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: world
Posts: 123
Gatwick Captain here and I can't complain too much. My running totals for the
last 12 months is 645 hrs and I am a full time employee Money aint too bad either
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 23:06
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Co.Antrim
Posts: 31
As good as it gets--- a couple of years ago I was in the unfortunate position to find myself without a job.....full stop. I struggled to get a minimum wage job.

After struggling to pay the bills for months on end, I eventually found a job in a factory which entailed of counting ten packets and popping them inside a box. This lasted 12 hours a day for 3 days a week....7 days a week If requested,which often I had to do..#boringasf*ck

Eventually I gained employment as a pilot and have worked happily ever since,luckily with a mainline carrier. When I get bad days I put myself in the position I was in a few years ago.
I earned £200 a week in that job.

It's about time you sat back and realised how fortunate you are to be doing a Job that the majority of the population wish they could be doing., despite earning 90k+ a year.

As I said in a previous post, dry your eyes and quit crying like a child that's looking for a suck....
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 07:47
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here and there
Age: 45
Posts: 536
I think Nordicman has just summed it up!!
Some bases are not too bad if you are in the right position, hours ok, money rewarding.

But it doesn't seem consistent across the company.
Also you can't seem to get a deal like that anymore. If you're a captain great. If you move to the left hand seat ( many moving at the moment?) then ok ish.
But the contract guys get a rough deal.
How about the future, bet he deal NM is on wont be around for long!!

How long until this spreads? To the left hand seat or other companies and becomes the norm??

Problem is, ok guys like NM don't seem bothered. I'm alright Jack!!!
Again the every man for himself attitude will lead to an industry wide reduction of standards.

(Ps, I'm not having a personal dig at NM, I'm glad he has a job that suits him well. If only we could all be assured of positions like that these days. U fortunately they are few and far between and we as the workforce have to stand up to the companies who are walking all over our t&c).

Last edited by Serenity; 20th Dec 2012 at 08:41.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 08:28
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,991
But then you know we are fighting this through the union. Haven't the UK guys just voted away a B-scale? Isn't the same about to happen in other bases?
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 08:52
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Posts: 537
723hrs in the last 12 months, full time. LGW Captain. Can't complain.

Last edited by beauport potato man; 20th Dec 2012 at 08:52.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 09:01
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 35
Posts: 340
Penko, I believe the problem then lies in the fact that yes, we voted out a B-scale but what has happened since? The situation is still the same as it was with no improvement.

Last webchat CMC stated that "Ryanair actually have comparable pay levels to competitors... and their way of operating gives them incredible flexibility.." my own interpretation of the words, I can't be arsed with looking for the text.

During merlin I remember CMC proudly stating "We are not Ryanair", now this change in rhethoric is alarming as it seems to point out a change towards the Ryanarization of the airline which certain ex-RYR executives who now work for us have tried to implement.

Look at the LIS contract, do you think a guy in the LHS there is being paid well enough for what he does? I am in the RHS and I earn more than a skipper in LIS. I'm sure the cost of living is not a reason enough for someone doing the same job as I am with a lot more responsibility earning so much less.

Last edited by Polorutz; 20th Dec 2012 at 09:05.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 12:07
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: EU
Posts: 659
Beauport potatoman,

Your flying hours would explain my high hours! Working my butt off all the time +500 hrs in the last 6 months including 3 weeks off on holiday.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 18:54
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 98
And I was going to suggest Lisbon as little holiday base to the original poster. Contract isn't good, true! But not many people here are complaining about lifestyle. Mostly experienced FO's so not too much stress, random roster but rarely ever work 5 days in a row.

Money isn't everything in life, if you can trade some in and improve your well being its money we'll spent.

There are a couple of guys in Easy who have returned from Emirates to the RHS, ask them how green the grass is!
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 11:18
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 940
There is, fortunately, an increasing dose of common sense and perspective here about the alternatives. The words of contributors like keep_er_lit and others are indeed cautionary tales. We know at easyJet we have a big issue related to the flexicrew problem. Our latest missive from our Head of Flight Operations (a good guy by the way) suggests it will all be resolved by the end of Jan 2013 - I personally think that is highly unlikely. Nonetheless, it will be resolved at some point and the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts. Once that pressing issue is resolved we can then get back to making sure we remain in the excellent position we are right now. In terms of the running of the airline, love them or hate them, our managers are doing a great job of running an increasingly efficient operation, maintaining high load factors, bringing up the share price, increasing profit margins and keeping the investors happy. That is no mean feat and having had the misfortune to work for airlines with a significantly less competent management team and a dire financial position, I am very grateful for our current state. As I have said before, there are indeed better airlines out there than easyJet - but not many. Those of you thinking that Air Utopia is just waiting to offer you a job paying you twice as much for flying half your current schedule, whilst recognising your outstanding talent and contribution to the Company are likely to be sadly disappointed. It is a hard world out there for most people and I do not intend to jump off a a plain but fully functional ship in the hope of landing on the Queen Mary - only to discover myself floating on a life raft in shark-infested waters.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 12:52
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
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You say "the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts".

Why not every single one of them?

You can pretend all you like about great management, but where is the respect and decency?

If even a single eJ pilot is on a "flex" contract, you will have left yourselves open for further, more egregious, division tactics in the future.

It should be every pilot on an eJ contract.

This is a serious PROFESSION, not some holiday job in a bar.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 13:08
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 940
Narrow Runway - apologies if I did not explain that better. My reference to 'the vast majority' is simply because I envisage a 6-month probationary period similar to the period that happened with the original CTC guys. It is not because I see any place for flexicrew at easyJet.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 14:10
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 150
Most permanent jobs in the UK usually have a probationary period written into the contract. This would usually be of six month duration, in some cases up to twelve.
So... with that in mind... The 'probationary' period argument for retaining flexicrew doesn't really stack up...

Hypothetically, if someone was brought in on a permanent contract and grossly underperforming then the company would be well within their rights to terminate that individual's contract - if within said probationary period.

Having said that, there's a difference between someone 'underperforming' in their role and being let go as they are just not needed over the Winter...

Flexicrew needs to disappear - full stop.
Like any malignant growth, if it is not fully excised - you can expect it to flare up again in the future...

Last edited by Poose; 21st Dec 2012 at 14:25.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 15:09
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 580
And we're getting upset about contract pilots who volunteered to buy their temporary jobs when a permanent Paris FO earns more than a Gatwick Captain and a Lisbon Captain earns less than a Gatwick FO? Same company, same aircraft, same routes. SAME PAY. That's what the slogan should be, not blethering on about p2f volunteers. That is a serious problem and it needs addressing, sure, but imho it isn't the elephant in the room.

Less than inflation pay settlement yet again after yet another set of record profits because the company "can't afford more"? And we swallow that?

What's the matter with us - and our unions?
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 15:46
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 150

Well said, Wageslave!
However, is there not a European rule regarding equal remuneration for people in the same role? Might be an avenue for investigation?

If a company is doing well it should reward it's staff accordingly... Pure and simple. It's funny how directors never forget this when conducting their own pay/bonus review.

How much did Carolyn McCall receive this year? Two million in shares?
All the while flexicrew F/Os go bankrupt or struggle to live...
Nice people at the helm of the good ship Easyjet.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 16:10
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Preferably on terra firma.
Posts: 734
You know I completely empathise with As good as it gets.

I too as felt as he does, frequently, and I know I am far from being alone (despite some other postings on here).

I have contributed it to being constantly fatigued by long unsociable hours and the stress involved in flying almost daily with different individuals who have differing levels of ability and experience.

easyJet could make my life easier but they choose not to because "we need to remain competitive" and "our competition has greater flexibility and lower crew costs".

Yes, I get paid very well but I am too tired to enjoy it and constantly arguing with the inland revenue about how much tax I'm paying!

Unfortunately, with the exception of a few remaining legacy carriers, I think the good old days are well and truly gone.

As good as it gets?

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Old 21st Dec 2012, 16:55
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 35
Posts: 340
Wageslave, I find your dialectic offensive.

Most of the Flexi guys are there not because they're volunteering to buy the job but because there is nothing out there for them worth going into.

It's either Flexiscrew or do a menial job while having an 80k GBP CPL sitting in a drawer somewhere gathering dust.

If you didn't have to make that choice I am pleased for you but don't put the blame on them, they NEED to fly, they have the ticket and the debt.

I agree with you on the pay though, it should be equal remuneration for equal responsibility.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 17:50
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 35
Posts: 340
I personally took the debt before the financial crisis started. When I did my homework, the guys leaving CTC could pick between easy, thomas cook, monarch or BA to select for after finishing.

WWW was aware of the crisis coming and was warning people but to be fair, this forum has NEVER said "this is a good time to go for it".

I made my choice when the goalpost was a permanent contract from day one and the loan repayments were included in the salary, also TR was free and included. With this in mind I committed to the scheme. I would have gladly stayed in the UK if the contract even resembled what the guys got before 07.

The newer guys, the guys you'll see in a few years, yeah, they're insane because they got into this knowing that Flexiscrew was the end goal.
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