Orange diarrhoea
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: uk
nobody forced you to become a pilot
"nobody forced you to become a pilot"
True but it avoids addressing the issues pilots now face.
How about you go on a soup run helping the down and outs and say to them
"nobody forced you to take that job that you got fired from and are now destitute" !
Or to the mother with kids to feed in Amsterdam " no one forced you to take up prostitution"
Poor argument really !
True but it avoids addressing the issues pilots now face.
How about you go on a soup run helping the down and outs and say to them
"nobody forced you to take that job that you got fired from and are now destitute" !
Or to the mother with kids to feed in Amsterdam " no one forced you to take up prostitution"
Poor argument really !
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Just out of curiosity what happened to the USAY results? I know they were absolute **** but I thought they were going to still be given out for each base so we could all admire the scores. I am getting the impression cazza has swept them under the orange carpet in the hangar. Still one cheap bottle of champers I guess all is forgiven. 
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
nobody forced you to become a pilot
"nobody forced you to become a pilot"
True but it avoids addressing the issues pilots now face.
How about you go on a soup run helping the down and outs and say to them
"nobody forced you to take that job that you got fired from and are now destitute" !
Or to the mother with kids to feed in Amsterdam " no one forced you to take up prostitution"
Poor argument really !
Indeed! This is true of many industries and especially that of ours which we know best. There is only 1 response to the apathetic attitude espoused here: "all it takes for the bad guys to win is for the good guys to do nothing." The tolpuddle martyrs were centuries ago, but my god they had more calejones than many whimps pontificating on here. I admit I now watch from the side-lines and it distresses me that which I see.
"nobody forced you to become a pilot"
True but it avoids addressing the issues pilots now face.
How about you go on a soup run helping the down and outs and say to them
"nobody forced you to take that job that you got fired from and are now destitute" !
Or to the mother with kids to feed in Amsterdam " no one forced you to take up prostitution"
Poor argument really !
Indeed! This is true of many industries and especially that of ours which we know best. There is only 1 response to the apathetic attitude espoused here: "all it takes for the bad guys to win is for the good guys to do nothing." The tolpuddle martyrs were centuries ago, but my god they had more calejones than many whimps pontificating on here. I admit I now watch from the side-lines and it distresses me that which I see.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 733
Likes: 45
From: Grrrr
I like the phrase by Edmund Burke better: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
or even more eloquently put: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."[
or even more eloquently put: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."[
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Italy
We're getting stiffed across the network while our unions do nothing (nothing effective at least).
Our profits increase year on year and now in Italy we're being offered a below inflation "pay rise", but even worse, that's capped! You can be sure our Managers and Directors will all get significant increases.
It's not just about the money, lifestyle's important. Are the lifestyle proposals clear to you??? Might their complexity be exploited by our overlords?
How we're treated at work has an important bearing on our lifestyle. How's that working out for you? How are your hotels/crew food? How useful is your 'Staff Travel'???
Our profits increase year on year and now in Italy we're being offered a below inflation "pay rise", but even worse, that's capped! You can be sure our Managers and Directors will all get significant increases.
It's not just about the money, lifestyle's important. Are the lifestyle proposals clear to you??? Might their complexity be exploited by our overlords?
How we're treated at work has an important bearing on our lifestyle. How's that working out for you? How are your hotels/crew food? How useful is your 'Staff Travel'???
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Manchester
GREENEDGEJET. very well put and entirely truthful. I just hope I can stay flying for the next 14 years on present t and c,s (not EZY). How terribly sad that the profesion of piloting aeroplanes has been reduced to this by these "employers".The next logical step I can see is an attack on Captains t and c,s within these type of outfits. Good luck to all.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
If you take the emotion out of the debate, it's rational for management to lower the T&Cs and general cost of recruitment when there are suitably qualified people queuing up by the truck load to "work."
Most of us would do something similar if under the pressure that management are.
It's entirely logical that LHS T&Cs will come under pressure next.
The only argument againt is that the current policy impacts upon safety if the quality of cadets is not satisfactory. I think we are at that point and that should be the focus.
Historical T&Cs are a distant dream and have lagged behind advances in technology, as TCX pilots will find out.
Most of us would do something similar if under the pressure that management are.
It's entirely logical that LHS T&Cs will come under pressure next.
The only argument againt is that the current policy impacts upon safety if the quality of cadets is not satisfactory. I think we are at that point and that should be the focus.
Historical T&Cs are a distant dream and have lagged behind advances in technology, as TCX pilots will find out.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
It's entirely logical that LHS T&Cs will come under pressure next.
That will be a natural evolution. As RHS T's & C's are diluted, when they graduate to LHS they will carry those diluted T's & C's with them. Sure, they will get an increase and grab it both hands. Thus the downward cycle will continue until the job is understood and perceived to be unattractive. Who knows where the tipping line will be; that is being tested every year. Eventually the gap between the small, aspiring, airlines, the successful LoCo's and the legacy carriers will be so wide that the supply of puppies will dry up. The legacy carriers will have their own schools again and no-one will want to gamble a a fortune on getting a licence and a job at the bottom of the food chain in the hope of moving outwards and upwards. It won't happen. We've seen for years that the legacy carriers recruit from within their own system. In days of dire shortage and expansion they took a few outsiders, but I think those days are gone. The same will be true for cabin crew and engineers. The hatchet men of these new airlines will drive the T's & C's so low they will cause a dry up of puppies in all 3 categories mentioned. Daddy or the bank will look closely and the prospects and advise accordingly. Meanwhile the greed at the top will have been fruitful in the short term and the sunny Caribbean will be full of ex-CEO's who don't give a toss.
"Don't let your off-spring go near them Mrs Worthington."
That will be a natural evolution. As RHS T's & C's are diluted, when they graduate to LHS they will carry those diluted T's & C's with them. Sure, they will get an increase and grab it both hands. Thus the downward cycle will continue until the job is understood and perceived to be unattractive. Who knows where the tipping line will be; that is being tested every year. Eventually the gap between the small, aspiring, airlines, the successful LoCo's and the legacy carriers will be so wide that the supply of puppies will dry up. The legacy carriers will have their own schools again and no-one will want to gamble a a fortune on getting a licence and a job at the bottom of the food chain in the hope of moving outwards and upwards. It won't happen. We've seen for years that the legacy carriers recruit from within their own system. In days of dire shortage and expansion they took a few outsiders, but I think those days are gone. The same will be true for cabin crew and engineers. The hatchet men of these new airlines will drive the T's & C's so low they will cause a dry up of puppies in all 3 categories mentioned. Daddy or the bank will look closely and the prospects and advise accordingly. Meanwhile the greed at the top will have been fruitful in the short term and the sunny Caribbean will be full of ex-CEO's who don't give a toss.
"Don't let your off-spring go near them Mrs Worthington."
