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Orange diarrhoea

Old 18th Dec 2012, 11:12
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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It is however worrisome that the response to a very simple scenario is that the automatic system will save you rather than considering the possibility that it will not.
Bit dramatic that root. Nice try!
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 12:07
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Get a job stacking shelves at your local supermarket. Regular hours, good pay, easy bus ride to work, no more stressful travel, and, above all, plenty of free time to relax and enjoy yourself.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 12:10
  #43 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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My goodness gracious me, don't know what you youngsters do for stamina these days. So far all the complaints make the job seem like easy paradise. You even get crew meals and coffee provided. Six weeks of winter earlies at Sweet Little Piglet Airways made a true pilot zombie out of you.
Hope that vision of the dark side cheers everyone up!

Edited: Substituted SWLPA for name of airline. Wouldn't want a roasting from a Merlin (sic).

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 18th Dec 2012 at 13:48.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 14:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beavis and Butthead View Post
Bit dramatic that root. Nice try!
Maybe, I don't know. Fly safe
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 15:28
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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You are kidding me right?
Next week I start a support rota at work, I'll be working 12 hours a night from 7pm to 7am for 7 nights straight (Monday to Sunday), then I get one day off, then I have to work 8-5 Tuesday through Friday. Two days off (Saturday and Sunday), then back to 7 more nights. I get to do this for the next 10 months.
And I have to deal with inexperienced people, and, and, and, and I get paid half what you get, and I don't get to fly during that time (who could have the energy to fly with those hours?)

So cry me a river. Welcome to the real world.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 15:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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DarkRoomSource

Sorry, this is supposed to be a Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

Part of being a professional pilot has always been the innate ability to p1ss and moan about anything, at great length and with total authority.

I'm sorry that you've signed up to a life of what appears to be, at first viewing, one of indentured slavery. For little money it would appear.

Have you considered the advice given earlier in this thread, namely move to France? No chance you could work your shift pattern there.

Bon chance.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 18:24
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The original poster is crying for help!
He is not the only one, in my base about 15% of the skippers, mostly guys in their late forties with 20+ years in aviation, are desperate for a part time as they can't handle a full time anymore.
A couple of them are close to a nervous breakdown, the company knows this but refuses the part time contracts. They are even told by the base captain that if they can't handle a fulltime they should be looking for another job!
With the rise of LCC's into serious and hard-working multi base outfits, you could argue that EasyJet and Ryanair have only been around for about 10 years.

Therefore no long-term study exists for this type of aviation work whereas longhaul and legacy carriers are a very well know quantity from the 50's onwards.

Perhaps we are now starting to see the results and effects of this type of fast paced, multi-sector quality of life?

How many EasyJet posters on this thread have actually done 6-10 sector months with 4-6 days off between each trip? It's a huge difference in quality of life and wholly sustainable.

Good luck to the OP.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 18:49
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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4000 hours flying long-haul prior to joining easyJet, never acclimatised to the constant fatigue and jet-lag, hated the 13+ hour overnighters to somewhere I didn't particularly want to go to. Didn't like trying to sleep in the bunk, or in another hotel room in the wrong time zone, trying to be suitably 'rested' prior to the next trip.....Horse for courses but at least I get back to my own bed most nights with easy, don't get jet-lag, and when I'm knackered after my five four sector lates, I get a solid four days rest prior to the next mixed batch of interesting flying
And when I OETD/OETA it's to save fuel that I might need, it's f§@k all to do with airline management muppets
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 19:21
  #49 (permalink)  
Plumbum Pendular
 
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It would seem to me that those bemoaning the OP's suffering are going about this the wrong way.

The fact is the the T&Cs that FR & EZY are now offering are dragging us all down.

If those 2 companies start losing experienced pilots then the competition amongst the airlines for T&Cs begins and so we will improve our lot.

The one who moaned about being at FlyBe, well if you want to move on, wouldn't you like to have a better airline to move onto or would you rather that we all threw in the towel so your future doesn't look as enthralling as it might otherwise be.

Let us not discourage a colleague from trying to improve his/her lot, because if we offer support then our lot will get better.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 19:45
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Like he said, the further down you go, the further we are expected to follow.

With the greatest of respect to darkroomsource & a few others who have come on this thread sounding like a headline from "The Sun" ( 100k earner Capt Ben Dover, aged 42, speaking with his partner, Anna Daptor 26 complains ! ! )

I think , whilst we all accept a bit of levity is good in balancing ones very subjective view, of ones personal situation vs the world situation, this website, being a "professional pilots rumour network", is perhaps intended for US , to discuss how we feel OUR job is progressing/regressing in comparison to our reasonable expectations, rather than being a platform for you to come on here & tell us how lucky we are , NOT to be employed in your "sweat shop".

Is that not in fact the case ?. . . . finally WTF are you doing on a "professional pilots forum" anyway ,particularly if your sole interest is to cheer on those who would deride further our T's & C's (is Troll the word I am looking for )

Last edited by captplaystation; 18th Dec 2012 at 20:09.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 19:53
  #51 (permalink)  
Plumbum Pendular
 
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darkroomsource

You are kidding me right?
Next week I start a support rota at work, I'll be working 12 hours a night from 7pm to 7am for 7 nights straight (Monday to Sunday), then I get one day off, then I have to work 8-5 Tuesday through Friday. Two days off (Saturday and Sunday), then back to 7 more nights. I get to do this for the next 10 months.
And I have to deal with inexperienced people, and, and, and, and I get paid half what you get, and I don't get to fly during that time (who could have the energy to fly with those hours?)

So cry me a river. Welcome to the real world.
Do you have the lives of 200ish people in your hands?

Do you have a licence to do what you do?

Do you have to go through twice yearly checks to keep your job?

Do you work in such a hostile environment that your liver dries up whilst you are working?

Do you have to deal with noise induced stress?

Without telling us what you do your comparison is completely irrelevant.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 20:10
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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The fact is the the T&Cs that FR & EZY are now offering are dragging us all down.
No. The fact is that the terms and conditions have steadily improved over the last six years for the topic starter. Maybe he should come over to our private forum, there is always a place there for a good moan, to vent the system.

Look, there is moaning and there is moaning. I think the topic starter might be in a spiral dive going nowhere, complaining about things that really do not matter. Someone has suggested already for him to speak to his doctor about it. That's a bit drastic maybe, but it makes more sense than opening topics about orange excrement on a public forum.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 22:25
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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The employee assistance programme on 'inside' is actually very good! No comeback from ezy and is independent. If anyone in Easyjet has life stress or work stress I think it is worth checking out. It has been used already bu several guys off with fatigue or stress and the feedback thus far was positive! Lets hope Ezy leave it that way!
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 23:14
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry guys - I just do not buy this. The overwhelming majority of Gatwick-based easyJet Captains are not working themselves to death at this time of year. If you are a Trainer you may only do 2 or 3 flying days in a month plus 8 sims (my January roster has one rostered flight on it!). Let me ask one simple question - how many duty hours have you worked in the last 12 months and how many of those were home standby duties? You show those figures to anyone working in the City and they would bite your hand off.

Lord Spandex Masher - I think you probably work for FlyBe, and it appears you are earning well (senior Captain on the Embraer by the sound of things). I would have to say that your current roster is simply unsustainable. FlyBe have terrible load factors and are in a financial mess. Someone somewhere is going to have to sort that pretty quickly or it will be game over. Any solution to their problems will likely involve pay cuts, new roster agreements etc. For all easyJet's ills, and there are undoubtedly problems there, it is financially as safe as any airline can be. For that alone I am extremely grateful and very wary of jumping ship. There will always be people who will stay with a particular employer for a whole variety of reasons - that is great if you are one of those folks. It would, however, be true to say that if easyJet were to start a proper recruiting policy and take a pile of pilots from FlyBe, they would empty overnight. You could reasonably argue the same about easyJet - if BA were to look for 1000 pilots tomorrow then we would empty overnight. That is the key to assessing the best employers and seeing where a Company is in the pecking order of life. I have no doubt that specifically Emirates, BA and Cathay Pacific are higher up the pecking order than easyJet as an employer. I would place easyJet in pole position within the second tier. I would have to say that I place FlyBe substantially lower - in the third or fourth tier. That is not to knock them but to recognise the harsh realities of where people would wish to work if they had the chance. Whatever you like - decent (ie saleable) type ratings (Boeing or Airbus), good overall salary, 5/3/5/4 working pattern, job security etc , I would strongly suggest that easyJet is a great place to be. No one can yet name me a specific and better employer outside Emirates, Cathay and the legacy carriers that they would wish to work for. I am not trying to be 'Agent Orange' here - I am just recognising that the picture painted by 'as good as it gets' is simply not a reflection of how the overwhelming body of easyJet Captains see their jobs.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 07:32
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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darkroomsource

Quote:
You are kidding me right?
Next week I start a support rota at work, I'll be working 12 hours a night from 7pm to 7am for 7 nights straight (Monday to Sunday), then I get one day off, then I have to work 8-5 Tuesday through Friday. Two days off (Saturday and Sunday), then back to 7 more nights. I get to do this for the next 10 months.
And I have to deal with inexperienced people, and, and, and, and I get paid half what you get, and I don't get to fly during that time (who could have the energy to fly with those hours?)

So cry me a river. Welcome to the real world.
Do you have the lives of 200ish people in your hands?

Do you have a licence to do what you do?

Do you have to go through twice yearly checks to keep your job?

Do you work in such a hostile environment that your liver dries up whilst you are working?

Do you have to deal with noise induced stress?

Without telling us what you do your comparison is completely irrelevant.
Lives, not quite, livelyhoods, yes, of about 1500 people. millions of £ of equipment.
License, not like my CPL, but I have to have training and 'certificates'.
My twice yearly checks aren't medical, so as long as I am competent in my job I don't have to worry about my health being the issue that sacks me.
Hostile? fairly, I work with automated machinery and robots, which can sever limbs or terminate life.
Noise induced stress? the machinery I work with has higher dbs than you'll experience in / around any aircraft (with exception maybe of sr71 or concorde, but then you're not flying one of those are you?).
I automate factories.
I chose my profession, I have a CPL and chose not to follow that route.
What I was trying to point out, was not that I have it bad, I love my job, but that we ALL have certain things about our jobs that we don't like. But really, the OP sounds like he's whinging about some really minor crap that most people have to deal with in the real world every day.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 08:51
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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As an outsider and not knowing you personally, it sounds like you are suffering from serious fatigue. If possible, I really recommend you take at least three months off (unpaid if need be) to allow you to get some perspective and then consider your options. I fully know what it's like when you're fed up and recommend you don't make any questionable career decisions until you've had a chance to properly evaluate your position, and think about some of the positives.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 10:16
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Rostered 24 hours for January and its my reserve month. Rarely do I get any changes to my roster, I maybe one of the lucky ones. Over the past 12 months my rolling hours are 706. LGW based, left seat.

Last edited by Stone Cold II; 19th Dec 2012 at 11:17.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 10:31
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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If I might comment further on this, I am a Gatwick-based TRE and my total duty hours are 1460 for the last 365 days of which over 90 were home standbys. Sure, within that there have been some truly dreadful days, as we all experience from time-to-time (I once had a 19 hour duty day, but that is another story!). I accept that will be less than a line captain as sim duties are 7 hours 20 mins compared to much longer on a flight duty usually. Nonetheless, my life is not untypical. I also accept that the cumulative effect of working bizarre hours (particularly if you work in the sim which runs 24/7) is very fatiguing. I reckon an easyJet TRE will earn around £130k - £140k a year (there are regional variations so that is only a rough guide), so it is not exactly a financial catastrophe.

I can only concur with the excellent advice of FANS about not doing something absolutely insane like walking out without a job until you take some time out. We all have dark moments where our world seems grim - the key is recognising that and not acting unwisely as a result of it. There are many Captains who have left easyJet and who have come to regret the decision. Speaking to them beforehand, there was nothing that could be done to persuade them that their proposed course of action was not in their own best interests. Clearly some have gone on to do well, particularly those who went to the desert or BA, but there are many who love to turn the clocks back and make a different choice.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 11:27
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alexander de Meerkat View Post
Lord Spandex Masher - I think you probably work for FlyBe, .
I used to, yes. I think your analysis of Flybe is spot on. They can't even make a profit when guys are doing 24 sectors a week in two of the most efficient aircraft in the world. It's top heavy and appears to have its head firmly wedged in the sand. A roster like mine wouldn't be viable even if they'd let me get away with so little work!

I also agree with you about easyJet, in fact I got as far as turning down an interview with them in favour of my first command, I would have been financially a bit better off (they had proper contracts back then) but I would have done twice as much work as I have since that point - this year I've done 350 flying hours and a smidge over 1100 hours duty. I would put that kind of work/lifestyle balance way higher up the pecking order than 4 sector days, 5 days in a row and you can definitely count me out of the long haul/M25 rat race/London nightmare.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:00
  #60 (permalink)  
RTO
 
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The thread starters post is a blue copy of the exact conditions in my outfit. Remove the reference of orange, and it would fit perfectly. I believe there are many out there that searches for that last decent airline to work for, but they have all disappeared. There are simply too many disadvantages with taking the whole family to the sandpit or Asia, and no job security whatsoever. The only option left is a change of career when the current airline finally sucks the last bit of motivation out of you.
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