So you want to be a pilot!
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I still think it's absolutely insane to pay 30k for a type rating the current climate,
do the math.
FANS
Did it ever occur to you why EZY selected yourselves from OAA ? Was it the massive shortage of fatpls out there? Was it that the people from your school were all fantastic, as you d had to pass such rigorous tests just to get on the course? Was it that you had access to more cash than sense? Or was it that you could be much more flexible and cheap labour.
Flyingpicket:
Unfortunately, unlike a lot of guys posting on here, we don't all have crystal balls. Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer was confident the recession was over in 2010, so who are we mere mortals to disagree?
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So you want to be a pilot!
You decide to go along to an open day at one of the well-known flight training establishments and are subjected to a slick marketing operation, which makes timeshare sharks look like amateurs. In addition to a free lunch, and an inspiring presentation, you get fed some impressive employment statistics. And while they can’t actually promise you a job at the end of the day, they do provide a list of the placements they’ve made with different airlines - averaging 200 a year!
The cost of the course, including accommodation and living expenses, is in excess of £90,000, but that’s no problem. They can fix you up with a 10 year bank loan with reduced repayments for the first couple of years, in case you don’t find a job straight away. The only problem is, the loan has to be secured on someone’s house, and there’s an extra couple of grand in fees for setting up the loan. That’s where the ‘Olds’ come in. Well it’s a bit of a risk, but if you’ll be earning upwards of fifty grand a year, it must be worth the gamble? Anyway, that go in the simulator did the trick and you’re hooked.
You pass the Skills Assessment and medical, and pay your deposit. You work your
off for the next 9 months on ground training, and then get to fly aircraft in the States for another 9. If you are lucky, all will go to plan and you end up with an ATPL. Now all you need is a job.
Half of the 200 trainees from this particular establishment were taken on by easyJet or Ryanair. You go to interviews at both companies and decide that easyJet is the better option. You are offered a two year contract via Parc Aviation, with the possibility of full employment after a probationary period. There’s just one ‘fly in the ointment’. You have to pay another £35,000 up front for Airbus type rating, and Parc Aviation will take 3% of all your earnings in admin fees.
The contract doesn’t look too bad though, with a decent hourly rate and a minimum winter period guarantee. In any case it’s a job, and you need to start paying off your loan, which has now risen to over £125,000 and is increasing at £100 a week due to interest.
All goes well for a few months, although. Parc Aviation never answer any of your emails. But hey, you can’t have everything. The flight crew are all friendly, and your pay always appears in the bank on time.
Then ‘out of the blue’, you suddenly get an email from Parc – Your two year contract is terminated with a month’s notice, as per clause x of the contract. You are offered a new contract in Berlin on two thirds the hourly rate you were getting in the UK and no winter guarantee. You are also being paid in Euros, and will have to pay German rates of tax, pension and social security contributions which are much higher than in the UK. Well you’ve been well and truly suckered and screwed by all concerned, but what choice do you have now but to take it?
You decide to go along to an open day at one of the well-known flight training establishments and are subjected to a slick marketing operation, which makes timeshare sharks look like amateurs. In addition to a free lunch, and an inspiring presentation, you get fed some impressive employment statistics. And while they can’t actually promise you a job at the end of the day, they do provide a list of the placements they’ve made with different airlines - averaging 200 a year!
The cost of the course, including accommodation and living expenses, is in excess of £90,000, but that’s no problem. They can fix you up with a 10 year bank loan with reduced repayments for the first couple of years, in case you don’t find a job straight away. The only problem is, the loan has to be secured on someone’s house, and there’s an extra couple of grand in fees for setting up the loan. That’s where the ‘Olds’ come in. Well it’s a bit of a risk, but if you’ll be earning upwards of fifty grand a year, it must be worth the gamble? Anyway, that go in the simulator did the trick and you’re hooked.
You pass the Skills Assessment and medical, and pay your deposit. You work your
off for the next 9 months on ground training, and then get to fly aircraft in the States for another 9. If you are lucky, all will go to plan and you end up with an ATPL. Now all you need is a job.Half of the 200 trainees from this particular establishment were taken on by easyJet or Ryanair. You go to interviews at both companies and decide that easyJet is the better option. You are offered a two year contract via Parc Aviation, with the possibility of full employment after a probationary period. There’s just one ‘fly in the ointment’. You have to pay another £35,000 up front for Airbus type rating, and Parc Aviation will take 3% of all your earnings in admin fees.
The contract doesn’t look too bad though, with a decent hourly rate and a minimum winter period guarantee. In any case it’s a job, and you need to start paying off your loan, which has now risen to over £125,000 and is increasing at £100 a week due to interest.
All goes well for a few months, although. Parc Aviation never answer any of your emails. But hey, you can’t have everything. The flight crew are all friendly, and your pay always appears in the bank on time.
Then ‘out of the blue’, you suddenly get an email from Parc – Your two year contract is terminated with a month’s notice, as per clause x of the contract. You are offered a new contract in Berlin on two thirds the hourly rate you were getting in the UK and no winter guarantee. You are also being paid in Euros, and will have to pay German rates of tax, pension and social security contributions which are much higher than in the UK. Well you’ve been well and truly suckered and screwed by all concerned, but what choice do you have now but to take it?
BANG!
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Yeah agreed, well said FANS.
You may think the industry is all messed up because you've paid out a fortune and got nothing back except a part time gig with no money and no future but on the other side of the fence you've also screwed the system for the rest as well. Im stuck in corporate on a small jet and rubbish money for which I waited years and years to get. That would be fine, theres nothing wrong with it, if it were not for the fact that because of guys like you paying your whole way through to the top jobs to subsidise your lack of qualifications, skills and intellegence, guys like me are stuck going absolutely nowhere and the whole airline career path is now just a dead end.
I could have 3000 hours on my a/c and it now doesnt count for dick if i try to forward my career with a bigger operator or a bigger a/c. Thats because rather than acknowledge experience and skills built up over years in the industry they would sooner take the money from a sniveling little oxford punk with wealthy parents. Candy from a baby I think they say??!
Do I blame the airlines? Of course not, they exist to make money and if they can get away with it it's hardly suprising they will try. Strangely Im not sure I even blame guys like you. You want a job, you need a job, and having already paid out 80k the extra 30k to go straight onto an a320 almost makes good sense in business terms. After all, with the career path as I've mentioned, why would you pay to get rated on a learjet or a citation so you can donate your life to a charter for 20k with no scope for future progression whatsoever.
BALPA/EASA/CAA are the only ones who can now fix this mess which they should have done long before it got to this. They have the power to simply make it law that you cannot be in a flight deck unless you are a proper paid employee of the company/operator. I dont know if thats even enforceable and i have no doubt idiots like MOL would find some way around it anyhow, but they could at least try and put some pressure on them as the whole thing right now is a massive farce.
I do understand your gripe and I do sypathise to a degree. I feel the same about the industry myself at the moment and unless something changes I will definately leave for good as well. I thought I was bettering myself when I switched careers and Im still amazed at how much of a joke and a circus aviation really is. Lets hope things go back to how they used to be for everyones sake.......
You may think the industry is all messed up because you've paid out a fortune and got nothing back except a part time gig with no money and no future but on the other side of the fence you've also screwed the system for the rest as well. Im stuck in corporate on a small jet and rubbish money for which I waited years and years to get. That would be fine, theres nothing wrong with it, if it were not for the fact that because of guys like you paying your whole way through to the top jobs to subsidise your lack of qualifications, skills and intellegence, guys like me are stuck going absolutely nowhere and the whole airline career path is now just a dead end.
I could have 3000 hours on my a/c and it now doesnt count for dick if i try to forward my career with a bigger operator or a bigger a/c. Thats because rather than acknowledge experience and skills built up over years in the industry they would sooner take the money from a sniveling little oxford punk with wealthy parents. Candy from a baby I think they say??!
Do I blame the airlines? Of course not, they exist to make money and if they can get away with it it's hardly suprising they will try. Strangely Im not sure I even blame guys like you. You want a job, you need a job, and having already paid out 80k the extra 30k to go straight onto an a320 almost makes good sense in business terms. After all, with the career path as I've mentioned, why would you pay to get rated on a learjet or a citation so you can donate your life to a charter for 20k with no scope for future progression whatsoever.
BALPA/EASA/CAA are the only ones who can now fix this mess which they should have done long before it got to this. They have the power to simply make it law that you cannot be in a flight deck unless you are a proper paid employee of the company/operator. I dont know if thats even enforceable and i have no doubt idiots like MOL would find some way around it anyhow, but they could at least try and put some pressure on them as the whole thing right now is a massive farce.
I do understand your gripe and I do sypathise to a degree. I feel the same about the industry myself at the moment and unless something changes I will definately leave for good as well. I thought I was bettering myself when I switched careers and Im still amazed at how much of a joke and a circus aviation really is. Lets hope things go back to how they used to be for everyones sake.......
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"Stuckgear - Across the river Lenny; see the farm, see the rabbits?
BANG!"
Afraid you'll have to explain that one to me Bruce (or is it Robin). Is it some sort of American joke? Also, as you quoted about 95% of my original post, why did you decide to leave out the last sentence, which was the whole point of the post, and the reasion it was Capitalised?
BANG!"
Afraid you'll have to explain that one to me Bruce (or is it Robin). Is it some sort of American joke? Also, as you quoted about 95% of my original post, why did you decide to leave out the last sentence, which was the whole point of the post, and the reasion it was Capitalised?
Across the river Lenny; see the farm, see the rabbits?
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I do understand your gripe and I do sypathise to a degree.
People in society and the wannabe pilots have been fed a line of not the facts, but what they want to hear, devoid of the facts. They have elected not to do any research into the facts behind the presentation, have been reamed in the process..
'shock, horror' we were lied to.. it was all just a ploy to get us to put our hands in our pockets ?
yer! well, no sh*t sherlock.
explaining the quote ? sheesh ! It just evidences the fact that the newbie know it all's dont actually know it all and history will repeat itself unless people want to actually expose themselves to history rather than just get spoonfed.
Prof. Rubik makes a valid point: the traditional path is no longer valid and having many hours on jet aircraft is pretty much, well, worthless..
Exerpience and knowldege come at a price and those without, are in effect cheap labour. Airlines don't want expereince or knowledge, they want cheap.
so when people have sold themselves, their career and their collegues out to the lowest bidder, don't come crying for sympathy becuase you are now expected to be even cheaper and if you dont like it, then go do a Jack Karouak
caveat emptor.
Last edited by stuckgear; 23rd Sep 2012 at 12:23.
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BALPA are toothless
added to that, as a contractor, or as self employed, i.e., you have a company that provides labour to a carrier, BALPA cant help you anyway.
BALPA provides assistance to employees, not to third party contractor suppliers.
As for the CAA/EASA: their job as regulator/ rule maker is to ensure that air transport is safe.
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I think everyone here is missing the point.
Spend all the effort you like in blaming the guys who signed up for these schemes, but the truth is if you'd have been in the same position with the finances to do so you would've done just the same thing.
The real issue here is the fact that we as a pilot group allowed all this to happen. When times were good in 2007-8 my previous company (one with large orange jets) were in pay negotiations with the pilots. We were offered paltry pay increases despite huge profits and RPI greater than the pay rise being offered. The company was opening bases overseas on different crew contracts whilst at the same time proposing this new "Flexi-pay-for-line-training-blah-blah" BS contract.
Not many were prepared to strike though, and many even totally apathetic by refusing to complete the BALPA ballot on strike action.
I myself was accused of wanting to "bite the hand that feeds me" even though I'm not a militant-type individual, and I certainly was aware of what an over-zealous union can do. However I could see what was slowly happening with the Management 'bonus culture' and wanted a fair slice for all the crews efforts. It was obvious they were winning by divide and conquer and most of the crew only cared about their own current situation without considering the future implications.
Now the same pilots who were deriding my concerns at the time seem to be all over this forum blaming the guys who signed up to these crazy proposals for the current situation. I expect fairly soon that EZY, like RYR will be crewed mostly by flexi-pilots and what few guys are left on permanent contracts will be in such a minority they will have no voice whatsoever.
It has gone past the point-of-no-return for LoCo airlines and I have the utmost sympathy for any pilot who gets treated this way - whether they signed up in a recession or not... With the narrow-mindedness and selfishness of us as a pilot group this outcome was always on the cards - whether there were cash-rich cadets available or not.
I feel so fortunate that I got in the industry 12 years ago, otherwise I feel I would be one of these poor individuals living out of a suitcase changing base every few months with no family, money or worthy life.
It's sad that it's come to this.
Good luck to the OP I hope luck shines on you someday soon.
Spend all the effort you like in blaming the guys who signed up for these schemes, but the truth is if you'd have been in the same position with the finances to do so you would've done just the same thing.
The real issue here is the fact that we as a pilot group allowed all this to happen. When times were good in 2007-8 my previous company (one with large orange jets) were in pay negotiations with the pilots. We were offered paltry pay increases despite huge profits and RPI greater than the pay rise being offered. The company was opening bases overseas on different crew contracts whilst at the same time proposing this new "Flexi-pay-for-line-training-blah-blah" BS contract.
Not many were prepared to strike though, and many even totally apathetic by refusing to complete the BALPA ballot on strike action.
I myself was accused of wanting to "bite the hand that feeds me" even though I'm not a militant-type individual, and I certainly was aware of what an over-zealous union can do. However I could see what was slowly happening with the Management 'bonus culture' and wanted a fair slice for all the crews efforts. It was obvious they were winning by divide and conquer and most of the crew only cared about their own current situation without considering the future implications.
Now the same pilots who were deriding my concerns at the time seem to be all over this forum blaming the guys who signed up to these crazy proposals for the current situation. I expect fairly soon that EZY, like RYR will be crewed mostly by flexi-pilots and what few guys are left on permanent contracts will be in such a minority they will have no voice whatsoever.
It has gone past the point-of-no-return for LoCo airlines and I have the utmost sympathy for any pilot who gets treated this way - whether they signed up in a recession or not... With the narrow-mindedness and selfishness of us as a pilot group this outcome was always on the cards - whether there were cash-rich cadets available or not.
I feel so fortunate that I got in the industry 12 years ago, otherwise I feel I would be one of these poor individuals living out of a suitcase changing base every few months with no family, money or worthy life.
It's sad that it's come to this.
Good luck to the OP I hope luck shines on you someday soon.
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Rex, my post wasn't aimed at you.
Apologies if it looked that way based on the fact I replied straight after your post.
I agree you made a good decision and I applaud you for the foresight and balls to be able to stand your ground.
My gripe is with the pilot group as a whole (even me included) for ruining what used to be 'living the dream'.
Apologies if it looked that way based on the fact I replied straight after your post.
I agree you made a good decision and I applaud you for the foresight and balls to be able to stand your ground.
My gripe is with the pilot group as a whole (even me included) for ruining what used to be 'living the dream'.
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Spend all the effort you like in blaming the guys who signed up for these schemes, but the truth is if you'd have been in the same position with the finances to do so you would've done just the same thing.
oh, i agree. once the debt is incurred, then it needs to be paid down (rather akin to our economic problems), and the clock is always ticking on the licences.
the fact is, is that many people took on the debt without forethought to the future, just rush rush now now, race to the bottom.
can i raise sympathy for those who did that now moan like petulent teenagers? not a lot.
many decided not to take on huge debts and work their way up and generate experience, they also got screwed over by the race to the bottom..
got 3,000hrs in a TP and want to move your career forward ? join the back of the queue with the 250hr sky gods..
been in this industry for 16 years, never took on a penny of debt for my licences but now i see no future as a viable career for the next 25 years of working life. It *is* a shame what has happened to this industry and the lack of professional standing as a career option, so when i hear people moaning and bitching... shoulda checked the reality before you took on a loan, no swallow the marketing PR hook line and sinker.
some people are *still* taking on debt right now for a flight deck career.
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Let's kick someone when they are down
To the OP - I really do sympathise with you, unfortunately you have been taken in by the hard sell of those corporate entities who have no concern at all for anyone or anything other than the bottom line. The big FTO's, agencies and all too many airlines are integrity free zones nowadays I'm afraid.
To those who see fit to kick someone when they are down - You guys have obviously never been taken in by anyone at any point in your lives and therefore
Have every right to criticise. In fact having never been taken in by anyone, even as impressionable young twenty something's you are all obviously much more intelligent than most of us.
So then how is it that you are stuck in low paid RHS jobs moaning about young guys stealing your promotion prospects, when surely you should be running BA or Virgin by now?
Or could it just be that you are cr*p at your job, have never got anywhere for that reason, and like venting your bitterness on an anonymous forum against people who are easy targets???
We all know that the airline industry is travelling around the 'U' bend at the moment, but I find it quite reprehensible that people think it is ok to blame the young guys coming into the business with a dream and a bank loan.
They are not the engineers of all this, they are the victims. Those at the top are taking advantage of people's dreams to swell their own pockets with absolutely no care at all for those young and old who are suffering as a result.
It really does stink how the pilot profession is being run into the ground, however I think we should all remember where all of this coming from, the like of MOL and co.
Concentrate on lobbying against and venting your anger against them, and you might just make a difference for yourselves and for those coming into the profession in the future.
To those who see fit to kick someone when they are down - You guys have obviously never been taken in by anyone at any point in your lives and therefore
Have every right to criticise. In fact having never been taken in by anyone, even as impressionable young twenty something's you are all obviously much more intelligent than most of us.
You jumped a massive queue of FIs, Flybe guys, unemployed and highly experienced jet pilots and now are complaining. These people are also mightily annoyed with the likes of yourself and you now fail to realise that You only have yourself to blame.
Or could it just be that you are cr*p at your job, have never got anywhere for that reason, and like venting your bitterness on an anonymous forum against people who are easy targets???
We all know that the airline industry is travelling around the 'U' bend at the moment, but I find it quite reprehensible that people think it is ok to blame the young guys coming into the business with a dream and a bank loan.
They are not the engineers of all this, they are the victims. Those at the top are taking advantage of people's dreams to swell their own pockets with absolutely no care at all for those young and old who are suffering as a result.
It really does stink how the pilot profession is being run into the ground, however I think we should all remember where all of this coming from, the like of MOL and co.
Concentrate on lobbying against and venting your anger against them, and you might just make a difference for yourselves and for those coming into the profession in the future.
Last edited by Flying low again; 23rd Sep 2012 at 16:45.
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fla,
taking on a 100 grand plus debt should be no small matter, that is a considerable amount of personal liability to carry and no-one should do so on a promise.
the 'taken in by the hard sell' is just blowing smoke up the arses of those of who did and came unstuck; 'poor you, you are a victim', 'tragic', 'evil FTO's' etc etc.
No FTO has, as far as I am aware, held a gun to someone's head and forced them to take out a loan and blow the money with them. They have merely presented pretty pictures of 'actors' in their mid to late 20's with four bars on their shoulders on the steps of an A320/737 with the idea that this could be you once you drop 100k with us and get your 250 hours and a blue licence holder from the CAA.
Due Dilligence is what anyone should perform when making an investment of any kind, not read the pretty brochure and look for 'confirmation bias'.
Caveat Emptor
Yes, I may sound harsh, but many have been highly vocal on the situation for a number of years, many on this forum too.
The FTO management, MOL, etc do exactly what they are in their positions to do; maximise the returns and profitability for their companies. They are not social welfare organisations to make someone who wants scrambled egg on their hat a career. IOW they are in it to make money.
As for the OP, he's on the money with this:
well, boo effing hoo.
or as another poster put it.. Told You So.
taking on a 100 grand plus debt should be no small matter, that is a considerable amount of personal liability to carry and no-one should do so on a promise.
the 'taken in by the hard sell' is just blowing smoke up the arses of those of who did and came unstuck; 'poor you, you are a victim', 'tragic', 'evil FTO's' etc etc.
No FTO has, as far as I am aware, held a gun to someone's head and forced them to take out a loan and blow the money with them. They have merely presented pretty pictures of 'actors' in their mid to late 20's with four bars on their shoulders on the steps of an A320/737 with the idea that this could be you once you drop 100k with us and get your 250 hours and a blue licence holder from the CAA.
Due Dilligence is what anyone should perform when making an investment of any kind, not read the pretty brochure and look for 'confirmation bias'.
Caveat Emptor
Yes, I may sound harsh, but many have been highly vocal on the situation for a number of years, many on this forum too.
The FTO management, MOL, etc do exactly what they are in their positions to do; maximise the returns and profitability for their companies. They are not social welfare organisations to make someone who wants scrambled egg on their hat a career. IOW they are in it to make money.
As for the OP, he's on the money with this:
Then ‘out of the blue’, you suddenly get an email from Parc – Your two year contract is terminated with a month’s notice, as per clause x of the contract. You are offered a new contract in Berlin on two thirds the hourly rate you were getting in the UK and no winter guarantee. You are also being paid in Euros, and will have to pay German rates of tax, pension and social security contributions which are much higher than in the UK. Well you’ve been well and truly suckered and screwed by all concerned, but what choice do you have now but to take it?
or as another poster put it.. Told You So.
Last edited by stuckgear; 23rd Sep 2012 at 19:49.
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The FTO management, MOL, etc do exactly what they are in their positions to do; maximise the returns and profitability for their companies. They are not social welfare organisations to make someone career. IOW they are in it to make money.
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I agree, but employers also have a duty of care to their employees. This is enshrined in legislation throughout Europe.
for those going on these schemes, what they are being offered is what it says on the tin and taking it only empowers the further degredation of T&C's across the industry as one airline does it, the others will invariably have to follow to suit in order to reduce their cost base to compete to retain market share with a carrier that has little, if any, obligations toward those who fly their aircraft.
Those who borrow money to spunk up against the wall of an FTO on the promise of a career on the flight deck are not employees of the FTO either.
Last edited by stuckgear; 23rd Sep 2012 at 19:46.
What we are seeing in aviation currently is this duty of care being blatantly flouted
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Sep 2012 at 19:38.
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Wiggy, you are correct to a point, duty of care does primarily relate to health and safety legislation including safe places of work etc, etc.
It does also cover employees welfare, so not just ensuring that you kettle has been PAT tested!
I do not pretend to be an expert on contract law, but I am an employer so do have first hand experience of this sort of thing.
Where your conditions of employement permanent or otherwise can be proven to be detrimental to your welfare, then there is certainly a case to answer here, albeit not clear cut I admit.
Stuckgear you are not entirely correct there I am afraid, contractors when at your place of business are considered as employees for insurance purposes, they are also considered as such by Hmrc if the contractor has no other place of business.
It does also cover employees welfare, so not just ensuring that you kettle has been PAT tested!
I do not pretend to be an expert on contract law, but I am an employer so do have first hand experience of this sort of thing.
Where your conditions of employement permanent or otherwise can be proven to be detrimental to your welfare, then there is certainly a case to answer here, albeit not clear cut I admit.
Stuckgear you are not entirely correct there I am afraid, contractors when at your place of business are considered as employees for insurance purposes, they are also considered as such by Hmrc if the contractor has no other place of business.
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Stuckgear you are not entirely correct there I am afraid, contractors when at your place of business are considered as employees for insurance purposes, they are also considered as such by Hmrc if the contractor has no other place of business.
Yes the whole contractor issue does cross a very grey line, we've been down that road before on these forums, there's no need to rehash it again.
why do you think the guys are being shunted out to contracts under other EU states ? see note above.
Sorry. flying low again, but the precept of accepting a contract considering that it may be challengable if you get shafted is frankly pathetic. Those that have accepted such terms, did so with the knowledge of what they do.
1. the pros and cons have debated hotly here as well as other places.
2. it has been well vocalised on the damage it has done to industry.
so to come boo-hooing that after taking up 100k + of debt and taking a ****ty contract that as per 1 and 2 above now means they dont have it as rosy as they tought it would be..
oh please !
contractors may be considered employees for contractor purposes and insurance may be subrogated to cover including but not limited to employess, contractors, designees, sub contractors, visitors it does not mean that they are duly responsible for their rights as and employee.
for example, as a business owner, you may have a contractor on your premesis to say do some wiring, or a visitor / representative, your insurance may well cover them if your filing cabinet falls off the wall and bangs them on the head, but it doesn't mean you are responsible for their tax contributions, pension, or their general welfare under their own employment terms.
but this is a digression..
the contractor pilot is an employee of their own company and it is that company that is contracted to the carrier to provide the services it provides.
you are mixing insurance with employment law.
Last edited by stuckgear; 23rd Sep 2012 at 20:07.
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Wow, there’s nothing like a wet weekend to bring out all the nasty professional trolls! Why are there so many bitter and twisted individuals who delight in aiming offensive and vitriolic rants at people they have never met, and whose lives and circumstances they know nothing about?
Professor Rubik: How do you justify following up what appears to be an admission that you screwed up with an ill-judged change of career which has now left you in a ‘dead end career’ as you put it, with a hypocritical attack on others who have chosen an alternative path? Referring to them as ‘snivelling little oxford punks, lacking in qualifications, skills and intelligence’, doesn’t say much for your attitude to life and other people, and perhaps that’s what’s actually holding you back in your career.
RTO:- Read more, it broadens the mind:So they say! but it seems to have had exactly the opposite effect on some of the contributors to this thread, and one narrow-minded individual in particular.
Stuckgear: “wannabe pilots have been fed a line of not the facts, but what they want to hear, devoid of the facts”
Employment Statistics | Oxford Aviation Academy - OAA.com
So are we to believe that the above published employment statistics are pure fiction then? They are claiming 1,281 positions filled in 105 different airlines around the world. How would you suggest researching whether the statistics are true or not?
“explaining the quote ? sheesh ! It just evidences the fact that the newbie know it all's dont actually know it all”
Well believe it or not, American literature doesn’t feature very highly on the National Curriculum these days, and I’ve yet to find any profession in the UK where it has any relevance. Maths and physics are the requirements for entry to most FTOs, and although I’ve never professed ‘to know it all’, I’d be happy to debate the origins of the Universe, and the nuances of vector calculus with you any day of the week (but not in this forum)!
“BALPA provides assistance to employees, not to third party contractor suppliers”
Actually, Balpa provides assistance to its paid up members, who may or may not be contractors. Whether they will make any difference remains to be seen.
“been in this industry for 16 years, never took on a penny of debt for my licences but now i see no future as a viable career for the next 25 years of working life…
so when i hear people moaning and bitching…”
Sounds to me that's exactly what you are doing! So you admit screwing up in your career choice too, and now it’s suddenly everyone else’s fault. Did you really want to go where most of the PTF boys have now ended up (assuming of course, they'd be interested in you)? No, I thought not, so why exactly are you still bitching?
Professor Rubik: How do you justify following up what appears to be an admission that you screwed up with an ill-judged change of career which has now left you in a ‘dead end career’ as you put it, with a hypocritical attack on others who have chosen an alternative path? Referring to them as ‘snivelling little oxford punks, lacking in qualifications, skills and intelligence’, doesn’t say much for your attitude to life and other people, and perhaps that’s what’s actually holding you back in your career.
RTO:- Read more, it broadens the mind:So they say! but it seems to have had exactly the opposite effect on some of the contributors to this thread, and one narrow-minded individual in particular.
Stuckgear: “wannabe pilots have been fed a line of not the facts, but what they want to hear, devoid of the facts”
Employment Statistics | Oxford Aviation Academy - OAA.com
So are we to believe that the above published employment statistics are pure fiction then? They are claiming 1,281 positions filled in 105 different airlines around the world. How would you suggest researching whether the statistics are true or not?
“explaining the quote ? sheesh ! It just evidences the fact that the newbie know it all's dont actually know it all”
Well believe it or not, American literature doesn’t feature very highly on the National Curriculum these days, and I’ve yet to find any profession in the UK where it has any relevance. Maths and physics are the requirements for entry to most FTOs, and although I’ve never professed ‘to know it all’, I’d be happy to debate the origins of the Universe, and the nuances of vector calculus with you any day of the week (but not in this forum)!
“BALPA provides assistance to employees, not to third party contractor suppliers”
Actually, Balpa provides assistance to its paid up members, who may or may not be contractors. Whether they will make any difference remains to be seen.
“been in this industry for 16 years, never took on a penny of debt for my licences but now i see no future as a viable career for the next 25 years of working life…
so when i hear people moaning and bitching…”
Sounds to me that's exactly what you are doing! So you admit screwing up in your career choice too, and now it’s suddenly everyone else’s fault. Did you really want to go where most of the PTF boys have now ended up (assuming of course, they'd be interested in you)? No, I thought not, so why exactly are you still bitching?