BALPA wakes up
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BALPA won't confront Schools
"I believe they have made Easy Jet a slightly better place to be" - for who exactly?
Maybe the Captains? What about:
1. Those dropped under the CTC TRSS in 2008?
2. The CTC cadets who were laid off after 6 months and told not to join Aer Lingus but to go back to bar jobs?
3. The Flexi Crew scheme that benefited the agency not the pilots?
4. The abandonment of experienced crew recruitment in favour of MPL only entry?
5. Those experienced crews in the holding pool?
Why is it EZY Gatwick now have 70% cadets and overall EZY has around 60% cadets in the UK? Is BALPA concerned like the CAA has been over pilot demographics?
The real reason is too many BALPA members work as TRIs/TREs for the Schools so they will not confront those organisations regarding odd practices.
Any cadet that joins the new BA scheme or a similar "approved" course will have to make sure they please the School (not just in ability) or face loosing that job offer just because their face doesn't fit. And remember BALPA will do nothing to help them if they fail an LST.
Maybe the Captains? What about:
1. Those dropped under the CTC TRSS in 2008?
2. The CTC cadets who were laid off after 6 months and told not to join Aer Lingus but to go back to bar jobs?
3. The Flexi Crew scheme that benefited the agency not the pilots?
4. The abandonment of experienced crew recruitment in favour of MPL only entry?
5. Those experienced crews in the holding pool?
Why is it EZY Gatwick now have 70% cadets and overall EZY has around 60% cadets in the UK? Is BALPA concerned like the CAA has been over pilot demographics?
The real reason is too many BALPA members work as TRIs/TREs for the Schools so they will not confront those organisations regarding odd practices.
Any cadet that joins the new BA scheme or a similar "approved" course will have to make sure they please the School (not just in ability) or face loosing that job offer just because their face doesn't fit. And remember BALPA will do nothing to help them if they fail an LST.
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Originally Posted by Tourist
Called a strike of all their members who work for companies that do P2F.
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Plus you have to assume that a lot of FOs at least will have got their position through P2F if the airline runs one of these schemes. Very unlikely to vote aginst it in that case.
P2F seems to be some sort of evil self fulfilling prophecy....
P2F seems to be some sort of evil self fulfilling prophecy....
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Called a strike of all their members who work for companies that do P2F.
What the hell is a union for if not for things like this?
What the hell is a union for if not for things like this?
Whats that?
Oh, you were being serious.
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"Given the associated heartache, loss of earnings, threats to career progression from management etc etc I don't think they'd get 51% in any company BALPA are recognised in"
Then you all deserve what you are getting.
Pour yourselves a large glass of man-the-xxxx-up and stop whingeing, or mobilise yourselves enough to persuade everybody that it is in everybody's interest in the long term to defeat P 2 F
Also, if BALPA can't manage to stop something as plainly wrong as P 2 F, a deal twice as bad a slavery- at least slaves were fed by the owner- then why on earth would you join?!?!?
Then you all deserve what you are getting.
Pour yourselves a large glass of man-the-xxxx-up and stop whingeing, or mobilise yourselves enough to persuade everybody that it is in everybody's interest in the long term to defeat P 2 F
Also, if BALPA can't manage to stop something as plainly wrong as P 2 F, a deal twice as bad a slavery- at least slaves were fed by the owner- then why on earth would you join?!?!?
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They probably join for the "free" (Ha Ha ! ) legal advice, without thinking through the difference between "advice" & "representation".
Our advice is you don't have a snowball in hells chance, see you in court, well just a minute, actually we won't. . . Oh dear, well good luck then old boy, & BTW thanks for all these years of subs, well anyway, hope you enjoyed the mag with all the P2F ads in it
Our advice is you don't have a snowball in hells chance, see you in court, well just a minute, actually we won't. . . Oh dear, well good luck then old boy, & BTW thanks for all these years of subs, well anyway, hope you enjoyed the mag with all the P2F ads in it
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Luke Sky Toddler said:
Not quite, my airline Flybe does not charge new starts anything, nil, nowt...
However, I agree with the general message you are sending.
Balpa should hang their head in shame, sure they could not have done
anything about P2F, but they should have been publicising it, get it in
the press and keep pushing, but no, they said practically nowt.
Mind you, the airline who ruined this industry is not in the UK so out
of Balpa's reach.
(I am a Balpa supporter I want to point out.)
while every other airline in the country was instigating insidious recruitment practices, pay-for-type-rating, pay-to-fly and all other kinds of general exploitative shaftings, and generally doing everything in their power to get young wannabes to pay massively inflated prices for costs that were always previously borne by the airlines?
However, I agree with the general message you are sending.
Balpa should hang their head in shame, sure they could not have done
anything about P2F, but they should have been publicising it, get it in
the press and keep pushing, but no, they said practically nowt.
Mind you, the airline who ruined this industry is not in the UK so out
of Balpa's reach.
(I am a Balpa supporter I want to point out.)
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Yes Flybe is slightly better but only for MPL students!
they used to take FIs and bond them £18k (3 yrs no money upfront) for the Q400 TR but that route closed about 3 years ago.
There is no other way into EZY or Flybe but MPL and near ZERO experience.
Seems that unless you are ex Mil or in a current JAR25 airliner job then experienced Pilots need not apply to BA. If you want the heavy type experience to meet BA civi pilot entrance then you will find it very hard to get into EZY or even Flybe for the foreseeable.
P2F is completely the wrong route but it tempts those who have given up self improving and wish to get into more debt for a dubious future..........
they used to take FIs and bond them £18k (3 yrs no money upfront) for the Q400 TR but that route closed about 3 years ago.
There is no other way into EZY or Flybe but MPL and near ZERO experience.
Seems that unless you are ex Mil or in a current JAR25 airliner job then experienced Pilots need not apply to BA. If you want the heavy type experience to meet BA civi pilot entrance then you will find it very hard to get into EZY or even Flybe for the foreseeable.
P2F is completely the wrong route but it tempts those who have given up self improving and wish to get into more debt for a dubious future..........
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Mr Bernoulli, "Hubris" had me reaching for my dictionary too ! Word does not exist in a number of well thumbed editions (Oxford, Odhams etc). "Hubristic" does though. Might be modern day yuckspeack got off the telly like the overuse of "pragmatic". A bit off thread but more, on thread, of course this silly scheme is designed to promote Balpa & BA and does absolutely nothing to address the problem of Ab initio Pilot Training. "Free" ??? Good grief. Age 18-55, bunch of really good "O" & "A" s , and, least we forget, £84000 UP FRONT ! On another thread, some chap called ETOPS reveals himself as one of the organisers of the scheme. Cheap publicity shot , guys, at the most vulnerable group in our profession; the "wanabees". Give them a honest break !
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It's probably because you are a bit thick. How could someting with a suffix be the original form? Rather incongruous and hypocritical to be having a shot at them for requiring good 'Os and As' and then start whining about 'yuckspeak' whilst incorrectly spelling it. See the following:
definition of hubris from Oxford Dictionaries Online
And that's from your favourite Oxford dictionary. Or try:
Dictionary
Hubris
Better tell the times not to use yuckspeak:
Hubris to nemesis: how Sir Fred Goodwin became the ‘world’s worst banker’ - Times Online
Have you really never heard of hubris and nemesis? Try reading a book before you try to be smart 'fella' . Anyway as you say, back on with Ba......
definition of hubris from Oxford Dictionaries Online
And that's from your favourite Oxford dictionary. Or try:
Dictionary
Hubris
Better tell the times not to use yuckspeak:
Hubris to nemesis: how Sir Fred Goodwin became the ‘world’s worst banker’ - Times Online
Have you really never heard of hubris and nemesis? Try reading a book before you try to be smart 'fella' . Anyway as you say, back on with Ba......
Last edited by BlackandBrown; 20th Aug 2011 at 12:42.
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Leg,
if you are referring to Ryanair (I guess?) BALPA had every opportunity to kick them in the nuts 4 years ago when IALPA implored them to appoint someone to deal with, & get involved collectively, in unionising the company . This was only going to happen as a joint venture, as the contracts of the employees were divided between Irish & UK.
The person on the top at BALPA at that time regretably didn't have the b@lls to fight this corner, & while he dithered & contemplated employing some half-wit on a temporary 6mth contract for the biggest fight in BALPA's life ( & he knew it ! ) interest waned, and IALPA was powerless to act alone, STN being the biggest base, & all the STN pilots being on UK contracts.
This (fortunately EX ) BALPA head honcho completely failed to fess up to the fight his members wanted him to fight, & the opportunity to achieve union recognition for a large group of UK based ( & contracted) employees was wasted.
I am now long gone, but still view developments with ( more or less) detached interest. I would love to see it work out for the folks there, & if BALPA somehow have some part in facilitating it ,all I can say is "about bloody time".
In my era, both in Ryanair, & previously in BMI , they were more a liability than an asset for most employees. I would be happy for them to prove me wrong by any future successes in the independant companies, I somehow doubt I will be eating my hat anytime soon.
if you are referring to Ryanair (I guess?) BALPA had every opportunity to kick them in the nuts 4 years ago when IALPA implored them to appoint someone to deal with, & get involved collectively, in unionising the company . This was only going to happen as a joint venture, as the contracts of the employees were divided between Irish & UK.
The person on the top at BALPA at that time regretably didn't have the b@lls to fight this corner, & while he dithered & contemplated employing some half-wit on a temporary 6mth contract for the biggest fight in BALPA's life ( & he knew it ! ) interest waned, and IALPA was powerless to act alone, STN being the biggest base, & all the STN pilots being on UK contracts.
This (fortunately EX ) BALPA head honcho completely failed to fess up to the fight his members wanted him to fight, & the opportunity to achieve union recognition for a large group of UK based ( & contracted) employees was wasted.
I am now long gone, but still view developments with ( more or less) detached interest. I would love to see it work out for the folks there, & if BALPA somehow have some part in facilitating it ,all I can say is "about bloody time".
In my era, both in Ryanair, & previously in BMI , they were more a liability than an asset for most employees. I would be happy for them to prove me wrong by any future successes in the independant companies, I somehow doubt I will be eating my hat anytime soon.
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BlackandBrown, not quite without fault either. "Someting".er, or maybe you are Jamaican-Man ! Blimey, "Thick" ?? Only a while ago, I couldn't even spell 'Pilot' and now.......I are one . Ok Ok, handbags away !
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BALPA is an organisation headed up by expired relics from a bygone era (yes I stole that line but it's so appropriate!). The fact they have done f*ck all about P2F in the last 5 years is ample proof they are in on the game or extremely inept. This is not a union fit for the 21st century pilot in this day and age of ‘low cost’. They have no grasping of the goings-on at the lower end of the pilot recruitment pipe, which is incredibly difficult to understand as every professional knows...prevention is better than cure.
It's time to get the ball rolling....a new airline union for pilots that's not headed up by these fumbling, aging, old fools. Nothing will thrill me more than to see this gutless old charmers lose the current monopoly they have.
It's time to get the ball rolling....a new airline union for pilots that's not headed up by these fumbling, aging, old fools. Nothing will thrill me more than to see this gutless old charmers lose the current monopoly they have.
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Superpilot - an unfortunate outbreak of rhetoric with absolutely no foundation of truth to it. You are, of course, entitled to believe that BALPA should disband and something new should replace it. That would undoubtedly please the folk like yourself with, what could most generously be called, a limited view of reality. If you think that a new union is going to defeat p2f, which incidentally is such a misused term that few people have any real understanding of what it means, then you will be sadly mistaken. So when the 'new' Union comes to town, don't forget to tell your mates all about it and then tell us exactly what they would do differently from the BALPA of the past.