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Join Date: May 2005
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The first beats on the jungle drums by the end of the week. In the meantime I reckon their training department has underestimated how much time and effort they need to bring everyone up to speed (by which I mean ab-initio guys TR'd and line checked (40 sectors), non 73/75 pilots TR'd and line checked (20 sectors), already TR'd guys LPC/OPC'd and line checked (20 sectors) + all their existing flightdeck LPC/OPC's.
It looks as if there will be a serious drain on training captains and TRI's going forward.
I don't know if the CAA imposed the 12% intake of 250hr Oxford bods so as not to dilute the company and make it have too much an emphasis on inexperience. Or if it was a value touted as being manageable. If they did I reckon they may be in the process of renegotiating with them.
It looks as if there will be a serious drain on training captains and TRI's going forward.
I don't know if the CAA imposed the 12% intake of 250hr Oxford bods so as not to dilute the company and make it have too much an emphasis on inexperience. Or if it was a value touted as being manageable. If they did I reckon they may be in the process of renegotiating with them.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I asked the IPA about the Vat and they couldn't tell me.
I was under the impression that the IRev have stopped companys being set up just to claim it back.
Any accountants out there?
I was under the impression that the IRev have stopped companys being set up just to claim it back.
Any accountants out there?
Join Date: Feb 2000
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I don't think that you can reclaim VAT. I did a type rating with BMI Baby 5 years ago, and had to repay the training cost from net salary, and was unable to reclaim either VAT or to claim tax relief or any offset against tax at all: I expect that Sir Michael had already pocketed the cash. Talk to the tax office that deals with your tax when you join the company and see how they advise you: they can be very helpful if you are nice to them!
Join Date: Jun 2003
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You can't.
The only way you could do it would be if Jet2.com were to pay it for you, and give you a reduced salary (ie deduct an amount for the TR) pre tax, hence you would not pay tax on it.
That is how it used to work, 3 years ago.
I'm afraid in your case you cannot claim any of the VAT back, and of course need to earn a lot more than the TR to cover the cost, once you have paid your NI and tax. You are an employee, not a contractor as in most of the RYR cases.
DW.
The only way you could do it would be if Jet2.com were to pay it for you, and give you a reduced salary (ie deduct an amount for the TR) pre tax, hence you would not pay tax on it.
That is how it used to work, 3 years ago.
I'm afraid in your case you cannot claim any of the VAT back, and of course need to earn a lot more than the TR to cover the cost, once you have paid your NI and tax. You are an employee, not a contractor as in most of the RYR cases.
DW.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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PAPI:
Join a proper union, you'll need to if your becomming a Jet2 employee plus your colleagues will appreciate it.......... 
(but that's for another thread)
SPLIT:
How the hell can the CAA set out min. employment requirements? They just have to make sure that those who are employed have the right qualifications. I remember talking to the Fleet Captain a few years back who said he'd like to recruit more given the chance..........
For info, I've flown with many Oxford cadets and found ALL of them to be fine and in some cases better than their supposedly 'greater experienced' colleagues. Yes, the 'bigger picture and experience factor' is a little lacking at first but you'd be surprissed how good the general flying and SOP's are......... at least they don't have to 'um-learn' a previous type / company SOP's first!
It's makes a nice change to fly with someone who's very keen, often polite, they hang around for at least a few years before leaving and you get to pass on a bit of your old 'barn-storming' knowledge and they actually pretend to be interested!!
I asked the IPA about the Vat and they couldn't tell me.
(but that's for another thread)SPLIT:
I don't know if the CAA imposed the 12% intake of 250hr Oxford bods so as not to dilute the company and make it have too much an emphasis on inexperience. Or if it was a value touted as being manageable.
For info, I've flown with many Oxford cadets and found ALL of them to be fine and in some cases better than their supposedly 'greater experienced' colleagues. Yes, the 'bigger picture and experience factor' is a little lacking at first but you'd be surprissed how good the general flying and SOP's are......... at least they don't have to 'um-learn' a previous type / company SOP's first!
It's makes a nice change to fly with someone who's very keen, often polite, they hang around for at least a few years before leaving and you get to pass on a bit of your old 'barn-storming' knowledge and they actually pretend to be interested!!
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The CAA in their role of AOC oversight do indeed "give guidance" on experience levels required, and the mix of experience.
Now, time for a rant. "general flying and sops good", " lack of big picture and experience".
We are stick monkeys, if you have a licence and a type you should be able to fly. That ones a given.
SOPs. The ability to sing the company song to the letter does not make a good pilot. In these days of low timers in the right seat, sops have been tuned to become a set of "ques", ie when i say this you do that, and when you say this, i do that. A good pilot knows from experience what to do and when, and shouldn't need prompting. Thats the difference between a pilot and a machine operator.
When the poo hits the fan,"lack of big picture and experience" becomes a real problem, as they run out of ideas real fast. No bad reflection on them, they just don''t have the experience, and have been taught to rely on a book of instructions instead.
Sharing tales of barnstorming is a good way to impart knowledge, but there is no substitute for experience, and i would submit that the front row of a piece of heavy metal, with hundreds of lives relying on you, is not the best place to get it.
I remember when we used to teach ppls, from day one, to be captains. "Airline preparation" programmes seem to have a different focus these days.
End of rant.
Now, time for a rant. "general flying and sops good", " lack of big picture and experience".
We are stick monkeys, if you have a licence and a type you should be able to fly. That ones a given.
SOPs. The ability to sing the company song to the letter does not make a good pilot. In these days of low timers in the right seat, sops have been tuned to become a set of "ques", ie when i say this you do that, and when you say this, i do that. A good pilot knows from experience what to do and when, and shouldn't need prompting. Thats the difference between a pilot and a machine operator.
When the poo hits the fan,"lack of big picture and experience" becomes a real problem, as they run out of ideas real fast. No bad reflection on them, they just don''t have the experience, and have been taught to rely on a book of instructions instead.
Sharing tales of barnstorming is a good way to impart knowledge, but there is no substitute for experience, and i would submit that the front row of a piece of heavy metal, with hundreds of lives relying on you, is not the best place to get it.
I remember when we used to teach ppls, from day one, to be captains. "Airline preparation" programmes seem to have a different focus these days.
End of rant.
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purple,
BA,KLM,LH,BMI,BE, etc have used low time but well selected / trained ab initio pilots for many many years, generally they go onto multi sector short haul fleets first before longhaul, I have flown with both ab inito and "modular self improvers / PPL instruction" and generally the ab initio is a "better product". This is simply due to the likes of oxford, KLS etc knowing their trade, ab initio pilots are trained from day one to do the job, the others have proven in the past to be a higher training risk. As time goes on and experience is gained there is little difference between the two.
I believe all oxford cadets will be going to the 737 fleet, a great aircraft to cut your teeth on, multi sector busy days. The 757 is not a great aircraft for low time pilots mainly due to the long sectors and lack of landings and take off. Jet2 have recognised this and are recruiting experienced pilots to the 757.
BA,KLM,LH,BMI,BE, etc have used low time but well selected / trained ab initio pilots for many many years, generally they go onto multi sector short haul fleets first before longhaul, I have flown with both ab inito and "modular self improvers / PPL instruction" and generally the ab initio is a "better product". This is simply due to the likes of oxford, KLS etc knowing their trade, ab initio pilots are trained from day one to do the job, the others have proven in the past to be a higher training risk. As time goes on and experience is gained there is little difference between the two.
I believe all oxford cadets will be going to the 737 fleet, a great aircraft to cut your teeth on, multi sector busy days. The 757 is not a great aircraft for low time pilots mainly due to the long sectors and lack of landings and take off. Jet2 have recognised this and are recruiting experienced pilots to the 757.
Join Date: May 2005
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Purple Pitot - Spot on
Some of the info spouted on here and taken by many of the uninitiated as gospel is a load of rot.
1st - to learn fresh SOP's for when joining a new company is not beyond the capacity or ability of 99% of commercial pilots within a few days. You may call for something at a different altitude, time or place or change the order you do something but come on, its not beyond anyone to assimilate new information quickly and put it into practice. It's like saying when you go to the US on holiday you won't be able to adapt to driving on the other side of the road.
2nd - I've been to airline interviews where there have been sim checks and no sim checks, psychometic testing and personality profiles and others that don't. One thing that is constant is your character and if they (as a captain) could envisage sitting with you for 9 hours and would go for a pint afterwards.
3rd - The Mod vs. Integrated debate has raged on other threads for ages. Yes both methods have their pro's and con's i.e. where you get consistency and a polished product from an integrated school you get life experience, independence and strength of character from going modular. At present in the UK many CP's like the former and the remainder prefer the latter, neither one is wholly correct or completely wrong.
4th - I've found the IPA particularly helpful and approachable in the past, can't say the same for BALPA. I'm just waiting until they change their call screening to "press 1 for BA and Virgin" UK based bells and whistles call hander with a background in employment law, "press 2 for charter airlines" some sweatshop call-centre in Delhi and "3 for everyone else" continuous dialling tone.
However most of these points don't have anything to do with recruitment at Jet2 so why don't we keep things on track.
Some of the info spouted on here and taken by many of the uninitiated as gospel is a load of rot.
1st - to learn fresh SOP's for when joining a new company is not beyond the capacity or ability of 99% of commercial pilots within a few days. You may call for something at a different altitude, time or place or change the order you do something but come on, its not beyond anyone to assimilate new information quickly and put it into practice. It's like saying when you go to the US on holiday you won't be able to adapt to driving on the other side of the road.
2nd - I've been to airline interviews where there have been sim checks and no sim checks, psychometic testing and personality profiles and others that don't. One thing that is constant is your character and if they (as a captain) could envisage sitting with you for 9 hours and would go for a pint afterwards.
3rd - The Mod vs. Integrated debate has raged on other threads for ages. Yes both methods have their pro's and con's i.e. where you get consistency and a polished product from an integrated school you get life experience, independence and strength of character from going modular. At present in the UK many CP's like the former and the remainder prefer the latter, neither one is wholly correct or completely wrong.
4th - I've found the IPA particularly helpful and approachable in the past, can't say the same for BALPA. I'm just waiting until they change their call screening to "press 1 for BA and Virgin" UK based bells and whistles call hander with a background in employment law, "press 2 for charter airlines" some sweatshop call-centre in Delhi and "3 for everyone else" continuous dialling tone.
However most of these points don't have anything to do with recruitment at Jet2 so why don't we keep things on track.
Last edited by SPLIT-FFMTCC; 26th Oct 2010 at 15:37.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Actually SPLIT, it does, kind of. When i joined jet2 7 years ago, the training system was geared towards low timers even then, and they went to great lengths to kick any previous command experience out of me. However, on the line , my experience came in quite handy on a number of occaisions.
After 3 years of unfulfilled promises and pay cuts, i left for better pastures. Great flying with some really good people, some of whom are still there for some reason. There are better ways to pay the bills.
After 3 years of unfulfilled promises and pay cuts, i left for better pastures. Great flying with some really good people, some of whom are still there for some reason. There are better ways to pay the bills.
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Alot of resignation letters going in at Eastern.
Offers made from J2 for both 757 and 737.
Folks with decent Saab time offered DEC in some cases?
Differing amounts being talked about for the type rating. Anywhere between a bond and full £25k depending on who you listen to.
Offers made from J2 for both 757 and 737.
Folks with decent Saab time offered DEC in some cases?
Differing amounts being talked about for the type rating. Anywhere between a bond and full £25k depending on who you listen to.
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DEC for saab driver? Things must have changed a lot. Turboprop drivers were considered second class citizens on my course!
That my have had more to do with Cheats Thieves & Clowns than jet2 to be fair.
That my have had more to do with Cheats Thieves & Clowns than jet2 to be fair.
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Alot of resignation letters going in at Eastern.
Offers made from J2 for both 757 and 737.
Folks with decent Saab time offered DEC in some cases?
Differing amounts being talked about for the type rating. Anywhere between a bond and full £25k depending on who you listen to.
Not sure where you got your info from but this is not true; yet. One senior FO has so far resigned. Three other people have had sim rides and are waiting to hear from Jet2. The captain you refer to is also yet to hear from them, and although a current turboprop captain, he has a lot of jet time in his logbook.