Industrial Action at Flybe?
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
a newsletter published to do some some good
On the other hand if BALPA get a strong mandate then management have to negotiate in a genuine and productive fashion, settlement is reached, goodwill returns, Ts and Cs improve and company wins in the long term.
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Also when the chief pilots newsletter still talks about a 2% payrise in line with the rest of business. I'm not sure to take it as an insult to my intelligence or hang my head in shame that our own chief pilot does not acknowledge we had not been offered a 2% rise but more like 0.3%.
From a point two months ago where the company announced to the CC that the late finish-early start is an integral part of the business model we are now told it is something they are committed to making movement on with the union.
BALPA must be laughing their socks off at that latest newsletter. If they needed anything to back up that the management are taking us all for fools then that was it. He must know that we know that he knows that we know it's actually 0.3% so why just wind me up by trying to insult my intelligence? As for the lates to earlies, been told this so many times I stopped listening years ago
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Quite. It's time for the management to act upon their sentiments. Time for all of us to support BALPA in their quest to negotiate reasonable pay & scheduling. Hopefully a reasonable compromise can be reached quickly and painlessly, though if the management intend remaining as disingenuous as they have been, then who knows.....?
Gender Faculty Specialist
and the sooner we realise this as a group the better
I can't be the only one to notice a subtle but quite significant shift in peoples' attitudes?!
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To be fair to our chief pilot, who I believe to be a decent person, I guess his hands are somewhat tied by budgets and the political sensitivities us Flybe pilots know about. He must know that we know that what he says in the newsletter are utterly vacuous cliches at best and downright disingenuous misrepresentations at worst, but his job is to represent the management position...
However, if he was on our side and wanted to subvert the situation subtly by seemingly pleasing his masters, but actually insulting the intelligence of anyone left who's still unsure and thus galvanising support for Balpa, then his last newsletter would do it I reckon!
However, if he was on our side and wanted to subvert the situation subtly by seemingly pleasing his masters, but actually insulting the intelligence of anyone left who's still unsure and thus galvanising support for Balpa, then his last newsletter would do it I reckon!
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It's a shame that BALPA can't (or more likley won't) galvanise support for BALPA. If the union could bother itself to pro-actively seek to increase membership, then maybe they might achieve something beyond bellyaching from the sidelines.
Still, you lot voted for them, so reap what you sow.
Still, you lot voted for them, so reap what you sow.
If you convince the directors that you are angry and that 80% of you will actually carry out the threat to strike, you'll win and there will be no strike. I speak from experience.
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I for one am about to dig my BALPA lanyard out and put it to some use and i would urge everyone else to do the same. Might only be a small thing but at least it shows our support.
Do the management really think we are accepting all the dribble that is written in the newsletters? It just proves to me how little they value us, in fact each newsletter that comes out makes me even more angry at the way they treat and disrespect both us and BALPA.
They are not commited to resolving any issues if its going to cost 1 pence more than it does at the moment. All they want to do is show how much money they can make so they get top money when they float the company.
Now is the time to stick together and get what we really deserve!!!
Do the management really think we are accepting all the dribble that is written in the newsletters? It just proves to me how little they value us, in fact each newsletter that comes out makes me even more angry at the way they treat and disrespect both us and BALPA.
They are not commited to resolving any issues if its going to cost 1 pence more than it does at the moment. All they want to do is show how much money they can make so they get top money when they float the company.
Now is the time to stick together and get what we really deserve!!!
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BALPA
My Balpa lanyard never came off and interestingly there's a real change in sentiment afoot on the flight deck. I think people have finally realised that the company has been playing games with us for years and it's time to stop the ludicrous erosion of both quality of life and terms and conditions. BALPA is the only opposing force that can improve things.
Desk-pilot
Desk-pilot
Thread Starter
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I have just added this rant to the Virgin thread! It is not quite so topical as in, relevant to current "conversation" but none the less think it is worthy of inclusion on this thread...
I'm really sick of people saying "there is a q of pilots as long as your arm ready to work" and "pilots are completely replaceable"! That is just not true. It takes much time, effort and money to become a pilot. So there may (at the moment) be people with CPLs, ATPLs or even ATPLs with loads of hours hanging about waiting for a job but.... a notice period is in the region of 3 months, a type rating is 15 to 25 THOUSAND pounds plus, training takes 2 months plus and costs a company MONEY (uniform, hours, company spiel, admin etc). You are not just an office worker who can move stuff out of a desk and someone else can move in. A company that has a disruptive workforce will cost it dearly. Something most cannot afford at the moment. Someone stated on the Virgin thread stuff about about booking a holiday with Virgin cause the perceived service is better ect. but the important point expressed is that they wanted to "avoid the strikes" so booked with Virgin (rather than BA). This shows what massive damage can be done to brands. Do not undervalue the professionalism, the skill and its uniqueness of this career. That statement goes to company management but more importantly to pilots. I have taken much interest in this thread and the hardships of pilots at Flybe but please can everyone stop saying there is an immediate crowd of pilots ready to jump in at the drop of a hat. Cabin crew can be replaced with relative ease to keep a schedule going but pilots cannot.... FACT!
I'm really sick of people saying "there is a q of pilots as long as your arm ready to work" and "pilots are completely replaceable"! That is just not true. It takes much time, effort and money to become a pilot. So there may (at the moment) be people with CPLs, ATPLs or even ATPLs with loads of hours hanging about waiting for a job but.... a notice period is in the region of 3 months, a type rating is 15 to 25 THOUSAND pounds plus, training takes 2 months plus and costs a company MONEY (uniform, hours, company spiel, admin etc). You are not just an office worker who can move stuff out of a desk and someone else can move in. A company that has a disruptive workforce will cost it dearly. Something most cannot afford at the moment. Someone stated on the Virgin thread stuff about about booking a holiday with Virgin cause the perceived service is better ect. but the important point expressed is that they wanted to "avoid the strikes" so booked with Virgin (rather than BA). This shows what massive damage can be done to brands. Do not undervalue the professionalism, the skill and its uniqueness of this career. That statement goes to company management but more importantly to pilots. I have taken much interest in this thread and the hardships of pilots at Flybe but please can everyone stop saying there is an immediate crowd of pilots ready to jump in at the drop of a hat. Cabin crew can be replaced with relative ease to keep a schedule going but pilots cannot.... FACT!
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largegerorgejones
That may be the case for airlines such as Virgin etc, but Flybe is a different beast. We generally recruit ab-initio pilots and pilots with the basic fATPL. These pilots do not need to give 3 months notice etc and can replace experienced pilots who have moved on almost "on a whim".
Whilst they have to go through the rigmarole of inductions, paperwork and type ratings etc most will be able to "start" as and when the company requires. You can bet that if the company said "Can you start next week?" most would say yes, and with more hold pools than any airline have ever seen in their lives there is no shortage of low time pilots waiting to start.
1 week induction
2 weeks TR groundschool
2 weeks simulator
1 week faffing about with days off, getting TR issued and base training etc.
As soon as they are line training they are on revenue flights, end of story.
CC
G-SXTY
Only if he/she is a member of BALPA?
That may be the case for airlines such as Virgin etc, but Flybe is a different beast. We generally recruit ab-initio pilots and pilots with the basic fATPL. These pilots do not need to give 3 months notice etc and can replace experienced pilots who have moved on almost "on a whim".
Whilst they have to go through the rigmarole of inductions, paperwork and type ratings etc most will be able to "start" as and when the company requires. You can bet that if the company said "Can you start next week?" most would say yes, and with more hold pools than any airline have ever seen in their lives there is no shortage of low time pilots waiting to start.
1 week induction
2 weeks TR groundschool
2 weeks simulator
1 week faffing about with days off, getting TR issued and base training etc.
As soon as they are line training they are on revenue flights, end of story.
CC
G-SXTY
Only if he/she is a member of BALPA?
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CC
Your analysis of organising training courses for ab initios in a company like Flybe is correct.
However, the question is how much slack is there in the line training system, and what happens when the CAA starts taking a long hard look at experience levels, especially if it's Captains and Senior FOs that lead the exodus and you forced back to rostering ab initios with low hour skippers.
It's happened before and it's not pretty.
Jimbo and the team are not known for their sympathy towards crew, and will be relying on the fact the mass exodus can't happen at the moment to keep the boot firmly on necks.
You have two choices really, get behind BALPA or let management get behind you with the sand impregnated lube....
Your analysis of organising training courses for ab initios in a company like Flybe is correct.
However, the question is how much slack is there in the line training system, and what happens when the CAA starts taking a long hard look at experience levels, especially if it's Captains and Senior FOs that lead the exodus and you forced back to rostering ab initios with low hour skippers.
It's happened before and it's not pretty.
Jimbo and the team are not known for their sympathy towards crew, and will be relying on the fact the mass exodus can't happen at the moment to keep the boot firmly on necks.
You have two choices really, get behind BALPA or let management get behind you with the sand impregnated lube....
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My plan was to get one and continuously flick the management in the eye with it till they improve the terms and conditions! What could be more annoying than having a BALPA lanyard continuously flicked in your eye?! You would surely give in to any requests given enough flicking! No? No one with me.... a sentiment of support rather than a fighting move! Stupido!!
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As I understand it, just about all the hold pool pilots are lined up for courses which will barely begin to address the current crew shortages. If more are needed, will enough be available who are in current flying practice? If not that spells a much greater training risk. Also in the slightly longer term, there may be a much reduced supply of ab-initio pilots, as flying training loans will be much more difficult to come by with the squeeze on credit.
The last news letter certainly appeared to harden attitudes against the management, and with several weeks of the consultation left, I hope it will have strengthened the support for BALPA.
As for the pension changes, as well as the previous comments, the proposed sharing was only going to be introduced next FY, with ALL savings this year being kept by the company!
The last news letter certainly appeared to harden attitudes against the management, and with several weeks of the consultation left, I hope it will have strengthened the support for BALPA.
As for the pension changes, as well as the previous comments, the proposed sharing was only going to be introduced next FY, with ALL savings this year being kept by the company!