Industrial Action at Flybe?
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It's a No from me...
The pay is a step in the right direction, although some ex Connect may not be doing as well out of it. But the scheduling is a none starter for me. Nope it's just more of the same.
If the company genuinely did care, they would have made an offer above what we had asked for. 108 days off and no Royal bank holidays says it all really.
And who on earth thinks flying after the sim is a good idea?
The pay is a step in the right direction, although some ex Connect may not be doing as well out of it. But the scheduling is a none starter for me. Nope it's just more of the same.
If the company genuinely did care, they would have made an offer above what we had asked for. 108 days off and no Royal bank holidays says it all really.
And who on earth thinks flying after the sim is a good idea?
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Fancier version of the last two offers! Does anyone believe you will get an SDD? How many times have you been on AS everything in the air and told to call back in half hour???
NO!
NO!
They´ve offered what BALPA has asked for except the 64 hours, which instead is 60. The rest is what BALPA wanted, and that´s the reason why it is backed by the whole CC.
So what else do you want?
So what else do you want?
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Actually, on the SA BALPA asked for the long 2 day weekend plus 24 hrs for every additional day thereafter. You don't have it. Anything longer than 2 days off and you still get stuffed with lates to earlies. 6/3 6/3 6/3 - totally legal and satisfies the minimum monthly days off requirement too. I hope you all enjoy it.
Nor have they delivered the significant closure with the rest of the industry with regard to pay that BALPA claim in their recent letter, because they have added holiday pay into the issue. Looks like it's not only the board that produce complete BS when it suits them.
Nor have they delivered the significant closure with the rest of the industry with regard to pay that BALPA claim in their recent letter, because they have added holiday pay into the issue. Looks like it's not only the board that produce complete BS when it suits them.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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'I do honestly believe we are worth so much more'............then damned well stand up to them and get what you feel you are worth.
If you saw this through you wouldn't have to keep 'chipping away'.
Get the cake baked, with all the ingredients, this time around according to YOUR recipe, not what French feels he'll deign to concede to you, and from the next negotiation you put the icing on the cake.
Accept this and you'll be forever eating the crumbs management feed you.
If you saw this through you wouldn't have to keep 'chipping away'.
Get the cake baked, with all the ingredients, this time around according to YOUR recipe, not what French feels he'll deign to concede to you, and from the next negotiation you put the icing on the cake.
Accept this and you'll be forever eating the crumbs management feed you.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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It has to be a no. It's still too far from the original BALPA request, and how long ago was that? Don't be worn down, don't be disillusioned, the company has the money, demand to be treated properly. 2% for FY10/11 is an awful long way from 6.1%. Scheduling is still off. It must be better.
£3000 for SFOs is a bit left field. The board are wise to who are the most frustrated and angry. That £3000 should have been there all along, but demands for skippers will increase, and how will that taxed £3000 affect you long term? You might not be off to BA/BMI/QR/EK next year, go for a proper rise for all.
£3000 for SFOs is a bit left field. The board are wise to who are the most frustrated and angry. That £3000 should have been there all along, but demands for skippers will increase, and how will that taxed £3000 affect you long term? You might not be off to BA/BMI/QR/EK next year, go for a proper rise for all.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Tied into the agreement for 5 years, seems not to get mentioned very much recently but it's still there. So no more than 108 days off and no more than 60 hours for a weekend until at leaset March 2016. But don't forget Jim really really cares!
did'nt we already reject this
did'nt we already reject this
Join Date: Oct 2008
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For the FOs considering the £3k.
What are the conditions of your deal? Where are the details before you all vote 'yes'?
Is it payable to current SFOs, or only new SFOs? When does it come into force?
Once you pass a PCA, how long is it valid for? Does your £3k depend on the PCA remaining valid?
Once you eventually make it to the LHS, does the deal for skippers look half as good as it does for SFOs?
Say 'yes' now, and you shaft yourself 12-18 months down the line.
What are the conditions of your deal? Where are the details before you all vote 'yes'?
Is it payable to current SFOs, or only new SFOs? When does it come into force?
Once you pass a PCA, how long is it valid for? Does your £3k depend on the PCA remaining valid?
Once you eventually make it to the LHS, does the deal for skippers look half as good as it does for SFOs?
Say 'yes' now, and you shaft yourself 12-18 months down the line.
Yet another nudge in the right direction, but management give very little;
-Still limited to 108 days off!
-Stood down from stby the day before, right, how often are you left hanging on astby when nothing is there? All down to crewings good will
-SFO will become a rare position, as the industry moves people will move through FO to captain in a shorter time than the previous static years. Bet you don't even collect the full years 3 grand!
-why to be a SFO do you need to pass command selection, every other major carrier requires unfrozen atpl plus 500 on type!!
-still 4 hours disruptionto get a payment when cabin crew bought this down to 2 hrs in their negotiating.
-how about €10 per sector like Finncomm who Flybe have just purchased instead of £1.90 perhour??
A few steps forward but much basic stuff left undone, a lot depending on the companies good will. As people move on and the industry picks up over the next couple of years, how much goodwill willyou see from management. How much so far??
-Still limited to 108 days off!
-Stood down from stby the day before, right, how often are you left hanging on astby when nothing is there? All down to crewings good will
-SFO will become a rare position, as the industry moves people will move through FO to captain in a shorter time than the previous static years. Bet you don't even collect the full years 3 grand!
-why to be a SFO do you need to pass command selection, every other major carrier requires unfrozen atpl plus 500 on type!!
-still 4 hours disruptionto get a payment when cabin crew bought this down to 2 hrs in their negotiating.
-how about €10 per sector like Finncomm who Flybe have just purchased instead of £1.90 perhour??
A few steps forward but much basic stuff left undone, a lot depending on the companies good will. As people move on and the industry picks up over the next couple of years, how much goodwill willyou see from management. How much so far??
Join Date: Aug 2002
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While I'm not entirely happy with the current deal put to us, I am of the belief that this is better than the last offer. At this stage of the negotiations, given the time taken to get to where we are today and my concern that if we get another "no" vote, there's going to be a struggle to maintain momentum and push for further improvements.
I think we should cash in our chips at this point. Accept what we've been offered and take stock of how far forward we have moved.
Yes, we should have more days off, yes we should have got our Royal Bank Holiday.
But there is a substantial pay offer on the table, there is an improvement to our existing SA.
Let's go for it - and let the Joint Scheduling Committee address the niggly issues which will no doubt surface in the future.
When the next bank holiday appears we can stand firm - and demand recognition.
It's a yes from me.
I think we should cash in our chips at this point. Accept what we've been offered and take stock of how far forward we have moved.
Yes, we should have more days off, yes we should have got our Royal Bank Holiday.
But there is a substantial pay offer on the table, there is an improvement to our existing SA.
Let's go for it - and let the Joint Scheduling Committee address the niggly issues which will no doubt surface in the future.
When the next bank holiday appears we can stand firm - and demand recognition.
It's a yes from me.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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my gut feeling is that we might end up cutting off our noses to spite our faces if we vote no this time round.
The individual costs of going on strike may well outweigh any financial benefits in any existing (or improved) offer.
What I'm suggesting is that a 2 day or 3 day strike will go some way to wiping out a large portion of our back pay.
It might hurt us more than them and possibly for very little "extra".
We're never going to close our pay gap in one major negotiation, nor are we going to get the best SA. But the CC have done a good job here and made some significant progress.
The individual costs of going on strike may well outweigh any financial benefits in any existing (or improved) offer.
What I'm suggesting is that a 2 day or 3 day strike will go some way to wiping out a large portion of our back pay.
It might hurt us more than them and possibly for very little "extra".
We're never going to close our pay gap in one major negotiation, nor are we going to get the best SA. But the CC have done a good job here and made some significant progress.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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So by your logic your only voting yes to protect a tiny bit of back pay over increasing your future earnings and quality of life.
I don't think we would achieve much more by agreeing strike action.
I do think we've got a better deal than the first time round.
And yes, while I'm not completely and utterley delighted with every aspect of the SA, I am happier with it than our current one, and I think I will see an improvement in quality of life.
Would I want more? Of course.
But I'm satisfied that after 18 months of negotiations this is where we've reached.
I'm happy to see this deal go through. Then after some R&R back to the round table to start the next set of negotiations.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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IA does not have to be a strike.
Its not 60 hours min, its 56 hours min. The 60 hour protection only applies to extra sectors added to you on the day! If your tech delayed, wx delayed, slot delayed, just plain late cos the schedule is to tight or anything else min hours off can ( AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE WILL ) be reduced to 56.
Its not even a substantive pay rise, its 2% year 1 + inflation plus 0.5% year 2 then inflation plus for year 3 but capped soo low its going to end up being a real terms pay cut in the final year.
Do you really think this is the best they could do? Just look at what the directors and non exec directors are giving themselves in the full year accounts and ask yourself again?
Its not 60 hours min, its 56 hours min. The 60 hour protection only applies to extra sectors added to you on the day! If your tech delayed, wx delayed, slot delayed, just plain late cos the schedule is to tight or anything else min hours off can ( AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE WILL ) be reduced to 56.
Its not even a substantive pay rise, its 2% year 1 + inflation plus 0.5% year 2 then inflation plus for year 3 but capped soo low its going to end up being a real terms pay cut in the final year.
Do you really think this is the best they could do? Just look at what the directors and non exec directors are giving themselves in the full year accounts and ask yourself again?
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Accept what we've been offered and take stock of how far forward we have moved.
1. Ummmm,
2. Errrrrrrrrrrr,
3. A pay rise that isn't,
4. A pay rise that is less than Balpa originally asked for,
5. No extra bank holidays, unlike the rest of the company.
6. What else?
If you're satisfied with that after a year and a half of negotiations what on earth will you be happy with after 6 months or a year, or however long the next lot takes?!
I don't think we would achieve much more by agreeing strike action.
JF will not want you to strike, or even any less aggressive forms of IA. You will get a better offer if you keep pushing.
You deserve it. Don't sell yourselves short.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Some guys here need a serious reality check. There's this attitude by some, most likely people who've not had much experience before flying maybe, that no one should be able to be forced to work a minute longer that their scheduled day without the right to refuse, payouts etc. It's that 1970s mentality which basically ruined this country and turned the public against unions.
Secondly LSM. I know you've got the "right" to say what you want, public forum, blah blah and I know you say you used to work here but you don't now, so why the he'll is nearly all the bitter agit-prop bile coming from you? Why can't you leave us alone and worry about your own circumstances.
I was prepared to go on strike on the back of the first 2 "offers" as they were insulting. This latest one still is, but not to extent I could personally justify striking. There's a hard core on these boards who are going to say no to anything less than BAs scheduling agreement and a 30% payrise. I just hope they are a very loud minority and that this deal gets voted through.
Are the company suddenly fluffy bunnies. No. Do I trust them an inch. No. Will I still leave the very minute something else comes up. Yes. In the meantime 60-64 hours off over the weekend will be a very welcome lifestlye improvement.
All with the proviso that the proposed stitch up of the ex bacon skippers gets resolved, otherwise it's a no.
Secondly LSM. I know you've got the "right" to say what you want, public forum, blah blah and I know you say you used to work here but you don't now, so why the he'll is nearly all the bitter agit-prop bile coming from you? Why can't you leave us alone and worry about your own circumstances.
I was prepared to go on strike on the back of the first 2 "offers" as they were insulting. This latest one still is, but not to extent I could personally justify striking. There's a hard core on these boards who are going to say no to anything less than BAs scheduling agreement and a 30% payrise. I just hope they are a very loud minority and that this deal gets voted through.
Are the company suddenly fluffy bunnies. No. Do I trust them an inch. No. Will I still leave the very minute something else comes up. Yes. In the meantime 60-64 hours off over the weekend will be a very welcome lifestlye improvement.
All with the proviso that the proposed stitch up of the ex bacon skippers gets resolved, otherwise it's a no.
Join Date: Sep 2010
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six-sixty, I don't know what agit-prop means! Anyway, it's not all coming from me, there are others who agree that this is a poor deal. Doesn't mean I have to speak like a politician though. Also my comments are generally aimed at:
- The offer
- The company
I do worry about my own circumstances, when it's necessary, but that doesn't mean I can't be interested in anything else, does it?
You're happy to vote for this deal and that's fine, nobody can stop you. You can get your minimal back pay and your extra 4 hours (which may or may not happen) then join another company. That's fine too. But please think about the other people at Flybe who can't leave (for whatever reason), or don't want to, who will be tied into the same poor scheduling agreement until 2016.
18 months of negotiations and you've achieved less than you originally asked for. Amazing. That's isn't a go at you or Balpa it's aimed at the company's brilliant delaying tactics, smoke and mirrors and ability to make it appear as if they're offering you something worthwhile.
- The offer
- The company
I do worry about my own circumstances, when it's necessary, but that doesn't mean I can't be interested in anything else, does it?
You're happy to vote for this deal and that's fine, nobody can stop you. You can get your minimal back pay and your extra 4 hours (which may or may not happen) then join another company. That's fine too. But please think about the other people at Flybe who can't leave (for whatever reason), or don't want to, who will be tied into the same poor scheduling agreement until 2016.
18 months of negotiations and you've achieved less than you originally asked for. Amazing. That's isn't a go at you or Balpa it's aimed at the company's brilliant delaying tactics, smoke and mirrors and ability to make it appear as if they're offering you something worthwhile.