Industrial Action at Flybe?
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Likewise! However we all work to a set of rules, if you deviate from SOP without good reason then you may find yourself grounded hence work to rule is near impossible to achieve. The only thing that would be different is refusing whatever you can refuse. At which point crewing will "fail to agree" and in line with the SA you work the duty and file a dispute. If you refuse discresion then you do so knowing some other poor sod will get shafted! Or the pax get shafted without the option to choose an alternative mode of transport. Hence the company will barely notice the effect!
Dont get me wrong I agree with it in principle but dont see it as an effective persuasion! As the rules will be reinvented via NOTAC to suit the situation.
Likewise I have no wish to strike, I would like to think our leaders are business savvy and would resolve the dispute before it happens, but I guess only time will tell.
Dont get me wrong I agree with it in principle but dont see it as an effective persuasion! As the rules will be reinvented via NOTAC to suit the situation.
Likewise I have no wish to strike, I would like to think our leaders are business savvy and would resolve the dispute before it happens, but I guess only time will tell.
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I'm not moaning, I'm joining in a discussion and supporting my ex colleagues, many of whom are good friends.
The point is that you can be as rigid or as flexible as you like within the rules and SOPs. If everybody followed the SOPs to the letter then the whole operation would slow down. The knock on effect of a slower operation should be apparent to you.
Have you ever beed to CDG when AF are on a go slow?
The point is that you can be as rigid or as flexible as you like within the rules and SOPs. If everybody followed the SOPs to the letter then the whole operation would slow down. The knock on effect of a slower operation should be apparent to you.
Have you ever beed to CDG when AF are on a go slow?
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Well I don't know about anybody else but I've never had a disruption I've been able to refuse. Even the way the company defines disruption is at odds with what the SA is trying to achieve ie a work/life balance. Did anybody else know that crewing's definition of disruption is based around the payment, if no payment is given how can somebody have been disrupted. With 2 hour protection on the day before a duty crewing won't disrupt the next day's duty because it would cost them a payment, but with the 4 hour privilege the SA provides crewing a phone call at 4am on the day of the duty (which I would consider VERY disruptive) costs them nothing
Another thing is the placing of AStby in a scatter-gun way after any early duty, completely circumventing the spirit (now there's a laughable phrase) of the SA, once again provides the company with maximum flexibility and the crew member minimum protection
At the beginning of this mess the Balpa council proposed a "clean slate" and a complete re-write of the SA, the company procrastinated over this wanting mirror rosters to be run to show it's viability but the company demanded that the agreed 2 base study be extended company wide at the last minute, which Balpa had to withdraw from due to lack of man-power
Another thing is the placing of AStby in a scatter-gun way after any early duty, completely circumventing the spirit (now there's a laughable phrase) of the SA, once again provides the company with maximum flexibility and the crew member minimum protection
At the beginning of this mess the Balpa council proposed a "clean slate" and a complete re-write of the SA, the company procrastinated over this wanting mirror rosters to be run to show it's viability but the company demanded that the agreed 2 base study be extended company wide at the last minute, which Balpa had to withdraw from due to lack of man-power
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HAHA Spandex, ref CDG yes I have been CDG many times whilst AF is on a go slow, and couldnt tell the difference! 
Although did notice when the bag slingers were striking things moved much faster than the norm
Although did notice when the bag slingers were striking things moved much faster than the norm
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Aviation News - Issue 4 - BA agrees new pay deal with pilots -
British Airways pilots get a 4% payrise this year - does that give our position more strength?
British Airways pilots get a 4% payrise this year - does that give our position more strength?
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Of course it doesn't! Any more than our already low pay levels and poor conditions compared to almost every other operator you would have thought give our argument strength. Stop assuming that any concept of fairness or reasonableness features in this. They don't give a fig; they are machines, and noone is leaving so their pilots will fly their planes come what may. They owe us nothing.
We're at the stage now where our position is only as strong as WE decide to make it. Unreasonableness must be met with the unreasonableness.
We're at the stage now where our position is only as strong as WE decide to make it. Unreasonableness must be met with the unreasonableness.
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how about this for an idea......
5/4, 5/4 roster pattern? Sounds nice. But how would it look on our rosters.
5/4 is nine days. So in a 30 day month it would be...
5/4 5/4 5/4 (27days) 3
next month..
2/4 5/4 5/4 5/1
So in month 1 I'll work 18 days. month 2 i'll work 17 days. My average working day in GLA is 5hrs. In winter we often do morning shifts of 2 sectors plus pointless AS. But I'll work on 5 hrs per duty. eg GLA - BHX x2 or GLA-SOU-FRA-SOU-GLa(closer to 6.5hrs)
Month one flying hours (assuming no standby) 18 x 5 = 90
Month one flying hours (assuming no standby) 17 x 5 = 85
Assuming 4 standbys per month(a generous estimate of my standbys over the last 12 months) thats..
Month 1 14 x 5 = 70
Month 2 13 x 5 = 65
so lets call it an average of 70 per month, assuming I lose a few standbys it would be a bit more. A working year is 10.5 months(six weeks for holiday). So thats 735 per year. I'm currently doing 745 per year, so thats no difference on flying hours for me.
What about days off? It looks like about 12 or 13 days of per month.
So if my maths are right(probably not, this seems to good to be true).
Thats a 5/4 pattern. 735hrs per year and a new total of 150 days off per year. An increase of 42 on the 108 principle.
Give me that and a 3% per year for three years and its a yes vote.
Rostering sorted, Off to eat cheese on toast and rest on my "back of envelope maths" laurels.
5/4, 5/4 roster pattern? Sounds nice. But how would it look on our rosters.
5/4 is nine days. So in a 30 day month it would be...
5/4 5/4 5/4 (27days) 3
next month..
2/4 5/4 5/4 5/1
So in month 1 I'll work 18 days. month 2 i'll work 17 days. My average working day in GLA is 5hrs. In winter we often do morning shifts of 2 sectors plus pointless AS. But I'll work on 5 hrs per duty. eg GLA - BHX x2 or GLA-SOU-FRA-SOU-GLa(closer to 6.5hrs)
Month one flying hours (assuming no standby) 18 x 5 = 90
Month one flying hours (assuming no standby) 17 x 5 = 85
Assuming 4 standbys per month(a generous estimate of my standbys over the last 12 months) thats..
Month 1 14 x 5 = 70
Month 2 13 x 5 = 65
so lets call it an average of 70 per month, assuming I lose a few standbys it would be a bit more. A working year is 10.5 months(six weeks for holiday). So thats 735 per year. I'm currently doing 745 per year, so thats no difference on flying hours for me.
What about days off? It looks like about 12 or 13 days of per month.
So if my maths are right(probably not, this seems to good to be true).
Thats a 5/4 pattern. 735hrs per year and a new total of 150 days off per year. An increase of 42 on the 108 principle.
Give me that and a 3% per year for three years and its a yes vote.
Rostering sorted, Off to eat cheese on toast and rest on my "back of envelope maths" laurels.
If this was a movie, the audience would have walked out a long time ago and asked for their money back.
The film title is "Industrial Action at Flybe?" and here we are on Page 36 of a whole pile of important posturing and rhetoric and absolutely nothing has happened.
There never will be any industrial action at Flybe.
Before you all start shouting at me, I will tell you what taking industrial action actually means.
I was based at JFK at the time and the paychecks did not arrive on time. One crew removed two mainwheels from a 707. Another crew took one of the INS units out of a DC-10 and took it home for safe keeping. A nosewheel went from a DC-8.
Etc. Etc.
The paychecks were flown north from Miami in a Learjet faster than you can ever imagine and the whole problem was resolved in a matter of hours.
Can you imagine this happening in this situation?
No.
You and BALPA will still be talking about this in three year's time and, in the meantime, the management will be laughing all the way to the bank.
The film title is "Industrial Action at Flybe?" and here we are on Page 36 of a whole pile of important posturing and rhetoric and absolutely nothing has happened.
There never will be any industrial action at Flybe.
Before you all start shouting at me, I will tell you what taking industrial action actually means.
I was based at JFK at the time and the paychecks did not arrive on time. One crew removed two mainwheels from a 707. Another crew took one of the INS units out of a DC-10 and took it home for safe keeping. A nosewheel went from a DC-8.
Etc. Etc.
The paychecks were flown north from Miami in a Learjet faster than you can ever imagine and the whole problem was resolved in a matter of hours.
Can you imagine this happening in this situation?
No.
You and BALPA will still be talking about this in three year's time and, in the meantime, the management will be laughing all the way to the bank.
But that is exactly my point. Not one of you is prepared to stand up and be counted and not one of you is ever going to do anything radical that will really bother the management.
(Otherwise known as the "visiting management" in Flybe who would rapidly flee at the first sign of really serious trouble and then go on to ruin another airline.)
Stop talking and DO something!
Otherwise, close this very boring thread!
(Otherwise known as the "visiting management" in Flybe who would rapidly flee at the first sign of really serious trouble and then go on to ruin another airline.)
Stop talking and DO something!
Otherwise, close this very boring thread!
Believe you me, the International Brotherhood of the Teamsters did not muck about in the playground but they did get things done quickly.
Please enjoy your next ten years of gentle negotiating.
I used to meet your cohorts in the simulator at Hatfield and Woodford many years ago and it seems to me that absolutely nothing has got any better.
I have nothing further to say on the subject.
Good luck with your pointless negotiations.
Please enjoy your next ten years of gentle negotiating.
I used to meet your cohorts in the simulator at Hatfield and Woodford many years ago and it seems to me that absolutely nothing has got any better.
I have nothing further to say on the subject.
Good luck with your pointless negotiations.
L'enfant Terrible
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[QUOTE]Believe you me, the International Brotherhood of the Teamsters did not muck about in the playground but they did get things done quickly./QUOTE]
Killing Jimmy Hoffa for instance. Any other tricks BALPA should copy?
Who mentioned pointless again?
Killing Jimmy Hoffa for instance. Any other tricks BALPA should copy?
Who mentioned pointless again?
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Good luck with your pointless negotiations.
What you meant to say was ineffective negotiations, but you'd still be wrong, again. So far they haven't been very effective but they have had an effect.
The CC just need to get a bit more aggro.
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Dissing JW is easy on here, but I wouldn't do it to his face. He's had a very long career in this business and has seen everything, twice.
I agree with him. As Dastardly said - "Mutley, do something"
My union stuck it's chin out last year and management crumbled. It can work if the tactics are thought through.
As Flybe are head to head with Ezy on a number of roots, where margins are thin, the last thing they'd want is a stoppage that allows the competitor an advantage. Think on.
I agree with him. As Dastardly said - "Mutley, do something"
My union stuck it's chin out last year and management crumbled. It can work if the tactics are thought through.
As Flybe are head to head with Ezy on a number of roots, where margins are thin, the last thing they'd want is a stoppage that allows the competitor an advantage. Think on.
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If the ballot comes back as a NO I think BALPA should start a scheme where each base can have an "Industrial Action Champion".
This champion could organise industrial action in their base and promote and give pep talks to their co workers.
Would it also be possible to provide them with special lanyards so they could be easily identified.
This champion could organise industrial action in their base and promote and give pep talks to their co workers.
Would it also be possible to provide them with special lanyards so they could be easily identified.