Industrial Action at Flybe?
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Wow what a post, and it's relevance?
BMIBaby, on it's uppers, the unwanted child of the Lufthansa takeover
FlyBE, ordering 35 brand new (not aged) e-jets with options on god knows how many more
Come back to the party when you've something constructive to add
BMIBaby, on it's uppers, the unwanted child of the Lufthansa takeover
FlyBE, ordering 35 brand new (not aged) e-jets with options on god knows how many more
Come back to the party when you've something constructive to add
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Nope, the Qantas rumour - started it in the crewroom once as a joke, no substance just wanted to see how long chinese whispers would take, 1.5 days in reality 
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Dave,
First of all, thank you for you comments on this.
I'm going to disagree with you though on everything you have said, apart from the fact that this is an interesting situation.
A resign or no win situation - well, it's interesting you say this. But I would like to seek clarification as to why you have come to this conclusion? Firstly, knowing a lot more about the company than I would like to normally let on - I know that we have a lot more resources available to us than is believed. If you want a more detailed run down of the statistics, I urge you to take a look at the floatation prospectus. It claims we made £6 million last year, whereas if you go through the small print and all the other forms of financial writing, it proved that the company, in actual fact made circa £20 million in profit last year. The majority of which was written down or lost in translation, which fundamentally, I believe was because the company made the assumption that none of the pilots would actually understand the financial language written.
Against this backdrop, the directors increased their pay by 28%. I cannot say it was a payrise - because it wasn't. It was a "recontracting" which took place about a month before the floatation, increasing their basic pay by 28%. Again, if you look in the prospectus, it is as clear as day in there.
The money does exist - but the company are caught up in a world where they are chasing financial targets year on year, and as such they want to minimise out going costs. However... the pilot work force should not be one of them. The reason being is that we are behind the success of the company.
The Dash flies efficiently at the best of times - but we operated in a way that we knew we would use less fuel than we were plogged to do, we knew to minimise costs, we knew that we couldn't arrive into certain airports more than 10 mins early, so we slowed down. We worked hard for this company - 95% of the pilots out there worked on days off, or into discretion in order to make sure that these was less disruption to the operation and that the airline could retain some great credibility in the eyes of the general public. I myself, when there was a vast amount of snow around a couple of years ago, even took to informing passengers in LGW about why the delays were there, when Swissport had enough and went home.
Many of us would have done anything we could do for the company... and to give the big boss men a 28% pay increase, while giving away interest free loans so they could buy new houses, and allowing JF to buy another supercar, when 50% of the FOs in this company are wondering whether they will have enough money to see it through to next payday, or whether they will have to sell some of their possessions and live on beans on toast is just totally incorrect.
The money exists, but the entire thing is driven by one thing - and one thing alone. Human Greed. Right now, Jack Walker, who believed that his employees were the key to the success of a company, would be turning in his grave if he could see how WE are being treated right now.
As I said, the money is there. It's not that the airline is going to announce redundancies and write off it's most valuable assets (us)... they have to negotiate now, or JF and the cronies will lose a lot more than they ever thought they had.
First of all, thank you for you comments on this.
I'm going to disagree with you though on everything you have said, apart from the fact that this is an interesting situation.
A resign or no win situation - well, it's interesting you say this. But I would like to seek clarification as to why you have come to this conclusion? Firstly, knowing a lot more about the company than I would like to normally let on - I know that we have a lot more resources available to us than is believed. If you want a more detailed run down of the statistics, I urge you to take a look at the floatation prospectus. It claims we made £6 million last year, whereas if you go through the small print and all the other forms of financial writing, it proved that the company, in actual fact made circa £20 million in profit last year. The majority of which was written down or lost in translation, which fundamentally, I believe was because the company made the assumption that none of the pilots would actually understand the financial language written.
Against this backdrop, the directors increased their pay by 28%. I cannot say it was a payrise - because it wasn't. It was a "recontracting" which took place about a month before the floatation, increasing their basic pay by 28%. Again, if you look in the prospectus, it is as clear as day in there.
The money does exist - but the company are caught up in a world where they are chasing financial targets year on year, and as such they want to minimise out going costs. However... the pilot work force should not be one of them. The reason being is that we are behind the success of the company.
The Dash flies efficiently at the best of times - but we operated in a way that we knew we would use less fuel than we were plogged to do, we knew to minimise costs, we knew that we couldn't arrive into certain airports more than 10 mins early, so we slowed down. We worked hard for this company - 95% of the pilots out there worked on days off, or into discretion in order to make sure that these was less disruption to the operation and that the airline could retain some great credibility in the eyes of the general public. I myself, when there was a vast amount of snow around a couple of years ago, even took to informing passengers in LGW about why the delays were there, when Swissport had enough and went home.
Many of us would have done anything we could do for the company... and to give the big boss men a 28% pay increase, while giving away interest free loans so they could buy new houses, and allowing JF to buy another supercar, when 50% of the FOs in this company are wondering whether they will have enough money to see it through to next payday, or whether they will have to sell some of their possessions and live on beans on toast is just totally incorrect.
The money exists, but the entire thing is driven by one thing - and one thing alone. Human Greed. Right now, Jack Walker, who believed that his employees were the key to the success of a company, would be turning in his grave if he could see how WE are being treated right now.
As I said, the money is there. It's not that the airline is going to announce redundancies and write off it's most valuable assets (us)... they have to negotiate now, or JF and the cronies will lose a lot more than they ever thought they had.
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Oh the original post was deleted... and now it looks like I had a first class rant.
However, it was by D4VE and said that basically, BALPA had pushed us into a position that we would have to resign or have a no win situation.
Just so everyone out there doesn't think I'm having a spectacular rant at anyone who will listen.
However, it was by D4VE and said that basically, BALPA had pushed us into a position that we would have to resign or have a no win situation.
Just so everyone out there doesn't think I'm having a spectacular rant at anyone who will listen.
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I deleted my post because after a quick think i considered that it was none of my business and i was having a pop at my old employers. We all have our views and we all think that we are correct, having been part of the Connect fiasco I still have many friends within what is now Flybe and wish them well but if you think that there are airlines out there that owe you a living think again - those days have gone! If every FO in Flybe resigned they would recover in less than a year, my own neighbour would fly for free because he thinks he will eventually reach the 'top' on a 747.
We are where we are because our own institution and our own failings have allowed the airlines to dictate terms. Having built my career through instructor, night freight, turboprop and eventually jet after 35 years in the industry it gives me no pleasure to see how a once honourable and select profession has gone to the dogs - oh and by the way the foreclosure on my mortgage back in my night freight days cost me my first marriage! Roll on retirement because i am too young for B and Q and too old for anything else! In all honesty i should have stayed in my original job back in the seventies because i have had nothing but redundancy and let down chasing what was a noble dream but in reality a bloody hard graft. Hence why i am one of the few who is happy with what easy offers in a fixed pattern, a reasonable income, an excellent aircraft but most of all (for a 60 year old Captain) solid job security, something I don't think that Flybe offers. Sure it could be better but i reckon that it's about as good as it will get nowdays and thankfully i am now at my preferred base.
Good luck to us all because in my humble opinion we are shafted
We are where we are because our own institution and our own failings have allowed the airlines to dictate terms. Having built my career through instructor, night freight, turboprop and eventually jet after 35 years in the industry it gives me no pleasure to see how a once honourable and select profession has gone to the dogs - oh and by the way the foreclosure on my mortgage back in my night freight days cost me my first marriage! Roll on retirement because i am too young for B and Q and too old for anything else! In all honesty i should have stayed in my original job back in the seventies because i have had nothing but redundancy and let down chasing what was a noble dream but in reality a bloody hard graft. Hence why i am one of the few who is happy with what easy offers in a fixed pattern, a reasonable income, an excellent aircraft but most of all (for a 60 year old Captain) solid job security, something I don't think that Flybe offers. Sure it could be better but i reckon that it's about as good as it will get nowdays and thankfully i am now at my preferred base.
Good luck to us all because in my humble opinion we are shafted
L'enfant Terrible
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So do we choose to continue getting shafted Dave? Personally I think a few people across this industry are growing a pair and it only takes a couple of companies' pilots to add some momentum.
We are not replaceable in a year. Flybe has neither the training capacity nor the fat in the flying programme to bring a large number of F/Os online before the losses bite.
We are not replaceable in a year. Flybe has neither the training capacity nor the fat in the flying programme to bring a large number of F/Os online before the losses bite.
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This notion that we are all doomed due to the abundance of aero sexual 19year olds with millionaire parents is completely wrong and in fact I think irrelevant, so long as: There is a strong union with high membership that is around to say NO to cheap FO's NO to 2% basically NO to anything that isn't good for professional pilots.
No profession is safe from management greed and cost cutting; the only defence is a strong union especially in this day an age where there are always thousands of others willing to do your job for cheap.
Even if Flybe pilots start to leave today at the rate of 10per week it will take an age before the salaries went UP.
Yes people leaving will aid our cause in the long run but short term it amounts to nothing.
The ball is firmly in our court now and from the last balpa email it seems that balpa have got the message from us (either that or they played a smart move in the last vote).
No profession is safe from management greed and cost cutting; the only defence is a strong union especially in this day an age where there are always thousands of others willing to do your job for cheap.
Even if Flybe pilots start to leave today at the rate of 10per week it will take an age before the salaries went UP.
Yes people leaving will aid our cause in the long run but short term it amounts to nothing.
The ball is firmly in our court now and from the last balpa email it seems that balpa have got the message from us (either that or they played a smart move in the last vote).
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I agree. Continue to stand united and determined and we will see a reasonable pay packet and scheduling agreement. It is easy for others (D4VE) to write "I got out in time, how clever i was, but you must continue to suffer the same conditions" (I saw your original post too). It is too easy for others to say "be grateful for a job". But this is our employment, our scheduling agreement and our pay. We decide with our CC the way forward.
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Sorry D4VE, but I also felt that your post was very much 'look at me and my lovely new cosy position while you all rot,' and less 'having a pop at your previous employer.' Good to see you have taken it down.
I am totally behind the CC. However I'm not about to spout the same old vapid flannel that some enjoy so much (see balpa forums) about 'doing a great job so far' etc etc. This has dragged on way way way too long and whether this has been a 'tactic' of either side I know and care not. After my last couple of months of being messed about by the company I'm ready to make my decision on IA. In fact I think I subconsciously made that decision months ago.
If there's any negotiation left to do, perhaps it should be; here's what the membership want, do you want your planes in the air next week?
Rant over. For now.
I am totally behind the CC. However I'm not about to spout the same old vapid flannel that some enjoy so much (see balpa forums) about 'doing a great job so far' etc etc. This has dragged on way way way too long and whether this has been a 'tactic' of either side I know and care not. After my last couple of months of being messed about by the company I'm ready to make my decision on IA. In fact I think I subconsciously made that decision months ago.
If there's any negotiation left to do, perhaps it should be; here's what the membership want, do you want your planes in the air next week?
Rant over. For now.
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Just read on the Balpa forum someone mentioned the "redundancies which the company are now talking about"?!
Anyone know where this has come from?!
Seeing as we're undercrewed and new aircraft on their way, this can only be hardball, scare tactics?!
Instead of a more realistic, deserved offer.
We'll see.
Anyone know where this has come from?!
Seeing as we're undercrewed and new aircraft on their way, this can only be hardball, scare tactics?!
Instead of a more realistic, deserved offer.
We'll see.
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As a question, where do you guys see this fitting in with the situation?
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...ml#post6405863
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...ml#post6405863
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Redundancies? RUBBISH!
There is no talk of redundancies - let's not start that rumour for the companys benefit.
We are under crewed - the company has acknowledged this already. But if, one day, they do decide to downsize, do you really think we'll be spared because we didn't get a payrise? No, the company will always be ruthless, taking or rejecting a payrise will make no difference.
There is no talk of redundancies - let's not start that rumour for the companys benefit.
We are under crewed - the company has acknowledged this already. But if, one day, they do decide to downsize, do you really think we'll be spared because we didn't get a payrise? No, the company will always be ruthless, taking or rejecting a payrise will make no difference.
Last edited by doodle2; 22nd Apr 2011 at 10:32.
